Melee-Capable Cleric Build v1.0; please advise

[KaplanPD]

Hello all,
First time cleric user here! I want to roll a cleric for the first time, and would like some tips/advice on my current build selection. I'm going for a Melee-Capable Cleric build. I haven't included any tomes, so any recommendations would be appreciated. Based off what I've seen here on the forums, I came up with the following:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Godson GoldBludgeon
Level 16 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(1 Barbarian \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 268
Spell Points: 994
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 4
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 15 15
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 17
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 17 23
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance -1 3
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 6 21
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 3 6
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 2 3
Listen 3 6
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot 3 6
Swim 2 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV




1. First thing I notice is the low SP...around what amount of SP should an MCC have by level 16? Any advice?
2. I would think Balance/Jump would fit in here, but with 1 skill point to use per level, I know constitution is a key factor also...this build had 90% of skill points allocated to constitution...smart or fail?
3. Please advise as to what you would move/change around! All input (positive and negative) will be taken into deep consideration.

Thanks in advance!

[Jasimine]

Well some things to keep in mind on your Sp is that it is showing your SP with no items on at all. Your wisdom would go up another 6 to 9 points with items, plus you can craft a GS item to add another total 600 spell points. Granted I doubt you will have the greensteel crafted right at level 16, but it is something to shoot for.

Also it looks like you put 5 level ups into wisdom but did not take your wisdom enhancements. I'd suggest taking 2 of these and eating at minimum a +2 tome. So with 17 base wisdom you would be looking at...

17 + 5 level ups + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 1 enhancement = 34 + additional 2 enhancements = 36

That would put your spell points signifigantly higher than just shy of 1k.

[Stermlin]

I think most players, myself included, would strongly advise against this type of build. Firstly, a Cleric will never gain any type of meaningful melee ability in the mid to high levels, and would only be moderately useful at low levels. In fact, once you pass level 7/Cleric, you should never swing a weapon again since your offensive spells will be more damaging than anything you could do with a weapon. Mid to high level casters of any kind use their weapon slots only for items that boost their SP or other magic ability and never ever ever use them for actual melee combat.

Another route you might consider is the "Battle Cleric", which is a build that concentrates on the Cleric's offensive spells primarily and their Healing spells second. However, you will find that most players, especially ones with high level characters, would still advise against that. The reason being, if you want to run a powerful offensive caster, then play a Sorcerer or a Wizard. A Cleric's offensive capability just isn't worth using that over SP that could be used to buff or heal a party. In fact, all you have to do to see what players think of a Battle Cleric is go into a high level zone like The Vale and ask the general channel: "Hey, what do you all think of Battle Clerics?" I guarantee that you will see very few, if any, positive responses.

My advice is, if you want to do serious damage with your spells, roll a sorc/wiz. If you want to run a Cleric to level 20, then get used to buffing, healing and tossing occasional Blade Barriers.

Now, that all being said, DDO IS a game and is meant to be enjoyed. So if you really think you would have fun with that build then by all means roll it and don't let me stop you. The points I provided were strictly for you to take into account for your build.

Hope I helped a little.

[KaplanPD]

I'll have to revise my build a bit so I can use some of my ap for wisdom related enhancements then I suppose. Soon as I can figure out which ones to swap, I'll post a revision.

Thanks for the input!

PS
I'm playing the character now, and he rocks, but of course they all do at levels lower than 5 ;/

[Carlll]

If you take Barbarian at level 1, you gain more skill points.

It's wrong that the build cant melee well at the low levels. He will melee very well at the low levels in fact.
His killing power with an axe gets outclassed from level 11 on with Blade Barrier. Not 7.

At higher levels his melee DPS will be quite low, true, but you could use Vorpals or Paralyzers.
Blade Barrier will be the better way to kill when soloing or when the aggro is on the Cleric but due to the kiting dynamics it doesnt fit too well into group play. Sure, you can tell your party to wait there while you kill everything with BB but it wont be much fun if they are supposed to do that for the whole quest, will it?

In addition, meleeing and just healing the damage will often be more mana efficient. It's the other way around when fighting against large numbers of monsters.

The build can kill fine in melee. At higher level, because of lack of DPS, he'll just use Vorpals instead.
And added DPS is added DPS, no matter if it's low.

Just dont forget to check the health bars. You can melee and heal. Your killing will make the quest easier, and you will have to spend less mana on healing.

Your Reflex save is quite low. This can get you unpleasant surprises when the Fireballs start flying.

At level 11 you probably want to have Maximize, for BB.

[tihocan]

Firstly, a Cleric will never gain any type of meaningful melee ability in the mid to high levels, and would only be moderately useful at low levels. In fact, once you pass level 7/Cleric, you should never swing a weapon again since your offensive spells will be more damaging than anything you could do with a weapon. Mid to high level casters of any kind use their weapon slots only for items that boost their SP or other magic ability and never ever ever use them for actual melee combat.

Another route you might consider is the "Battle Cleric", which is a build that concentrates on the Cleric's offensive spells primarily and their Healing spells second. However, you will find that most players, especially ones with high level characters, would still advise against that. The reason being, if you want to run a powerful offensive caster, then play a Sorcerer or a Wizard. A Cleric's offensive capability just isn't worth using that over SP that could be used to buff or heal a party. In fact, all you have to do to see what players think of a Battle Cleric is go into a high level zone like The Vale and ask the general channel: "Hey, what do you all think of Battle Clerics?" I guarantee that you will see very few, if any, positive responses.
Just want to point out I totally disagree with the above.

[Stermlin]

Just want to point out I totally disagree with the above.

That's cool, but could you expand on that? Maybe provide some counter points?

And I understand that he could use vorpals to make up for the lack of DPS, but the problem I foresee is this: A party recruits a Cleric to heal. Generally, the Cleric hangs back out of range of the mob(s) so as to avoid damage/death. If a Cleric is within melee range with only 268 hp its not going to take much for that Cleric to die. Even if that Cleric does not have aggro he/she could get killed just from AOE spells, not to mention alot of mobs have Whirlwind-type attacks that hit everyone around it. If the Cleric keeps getting killed in melee combat, the rest of the party is going to get pretty angry.

[ATJofATL]

Just want to point out I totally disagree with the above.

Yes, please elaborate. I have started a build like this myself. I am an old P&P D&D player from way (way way) back and have always played melee clerics. I'd like to learn the pluses and minuses in this game. Thanks.

[Phidius]

My understanding is that with a few exceptions, casting in the high levels (Amrath and Epic) is a waste of time and spell points, and the name of the game is melee DPS and healing.

I'm really enjoying my tempest cleric (Stryde) - his class split is a built-in filter that prevents him from running with groups that require a dedicated heal-bot :D

He may not PUG very much, but when he does we all have fun.

[tihocan]

That's cool, but could you expand on that? Maybe provide some counter points?
Yep sorry, didn't have much time to elaborate earlier so I just voiced my disagreement ;)

First about this statement: Firstly, a Cleric will never gain any type of meaningful melee ability in the mid to high levels, and would only be moderately useful at low levels. At low level, a cleric can be almost as good as a melee class. At mid/high levels, it certainly can't match the DPS of a DPS-focused melee, but it can definitely deal meaningful damage in melee to help kill some stuff faster. Obviously this makes mostly a difference in small groups/solo, while in a raid it won't really matter much (and a cleric is typically busy keeping everyone alive).

Second, about the other part: Another route you might consider is the "Battle Cleric", which is a build that concentrates on the Cleric's offensive spells primarily and their Healing spells second. However, you will find that most players, especially ones with high level characters, would still advise against that. What people mean by "Battle Cleric" is usually a cleric who goes into melee, not an offensive caster one. Most players, especially ones with high level characters, would advise that using offensive spells is very useful on a cleric and should be encouraged. Of course the healer is still supposed to heal, but noone expects a cleric to only heal (except in the rare situations where constant healing is required).

[Rusty_Can]

plus you can craft a GS item to add another total 600 spell points.

Sorcerers and FvS would get 600 spellpoints from GS items; clerics only 300 (Wizardry VI + Elemental Spellpower + Greater Elemental Spellpower).


Firstly, a Cleric will never gain any type of meaningful melee ability in the mid to high levels, and would only be moderately useful at low levels. In fact, once you pass level 7/Cleric, you should never swing a weapon again since your offensive spells will be more damaging than anything you could do with a weapon.

Actually, at lvl 7, clerics get Divine Power and Recitation spells and their Divine Favor spell provides +2 luck bonus to attack rolls and damage (third and last increase at lvl 9): all those are melee-oriented spells. Clerics need to wait for lvl 11 in order to acquire some decent offensive spells (e.g. Blade Barrier).

Btw, clerics used to deliver decent melee damage; release of fighter, barbarian and paladin PrE (e.g. Kensai, Frenzied Berserker, Knight of the Chalice) and the lack of cleric ones widened the gap with martial classes, but things might change in future.



Another route you might consider is the "Battle Cleric", which is a build that concentrates on the Cleric's offensive spells primarily and their Healing spells second. However, you will find that most players, especially ones with high level characters, would still advise against that.


*stares speechless at the written words*

*sighs*

Names, if you please?



The reason being, if you want to run a powerful offensive caster, then play a Sorcerer or a Wizard. A Cleric's offensive capability just isn't worth using that over SP that could be used to buff or heal a party.


Arcane casters are indeed powerful, but offensive divine casters (clerics and FvS) are also very effective; in particular, they can:
- provide crowd control (e.g. Greater Command, symbols);
- kill (Destruction, Implosion);
- deliver damage (e.g. Comet Fall, Blade Barrier, Harm).


If you want to run a Cleric to level 20, then get used to buffing, healing and tossing occasional Blade Barriers.

Not really. For many questss, high level divine casters don't even need a party.

Check this link: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=210269&highlight=battle+cleric.

[biggin]

I agree with tihocan, and I'll expand on that.

First, no cleric should ever be just standing in the back healing. Ever. For any reason. At lower levels you can keep up with DPS, at mid to high levels you can go para/smiter/vorp/disruption etc. And that's just if your bored. Go run Ritual Sacrifice with 5 melee and 1 cleric. Now go run it with 4 arcane/divine and 2 melee. If you keep yourself hasted the melee won't even be able to swing at anything other than red names. Even in raids where healers take turns you should be in there with the DPS spot healing with Quicken and swinging away with some DR bypassing weapons.

And yes, offensive spells do work in Amrath and Epic. If you haven't figured it out, go to the Achievement sections on the forums and look at stuff that's been solo'd. See any recurring themes? Arcanes are extremely powerful also, I'm not discounting them, but to say arcanes are the be all casters of DDO is just flat wrong.

Now as to the OP. I know you want to be a cleric with a melee focus, and it's hard to understand before you're in the thick of it, but you won't be on par with the melee classes. Good clerics rely on a mix of casting and melee, which IMO, makes them one of the most self sufficient classes in game, along with being the most sought after class in groups. A well played cleric is always remembered.

[jestrua]

advice is to not try to make a melee cleric right off the bat . follow vailance i think he called . . first finish a cleric to level 20 get ur 32 build then go for it .
you can check out my cleric if you want . it does ok . it solo healed and can hit some but it aint all that for a melee. its in the buffs to keep ur self with high saves in fort will reflex and ac . i try to make all of the stats even but wisdom higher.

Hello all,
First time cleric user here! I want to roll a cleric for the first time, and would like some tips/advice on my current build selection. I'm going for a Melee-Capable Cleric build. I haven't included any tomes, so any recommendations would be appreciated. Based off what I've seen here on the forums, I came up with the following:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Godson GoldBludgeon
Level 16 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(1 Barbarian \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 268
Spell Points: 994
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 4
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 15 15
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 17
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 17 23
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance -1 3
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 6 21
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 3 6
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 2 3
Listen 3 6
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot 3 6
Swim 2 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV




1. First thing I notice is the low SP...around what amount of SP should an MCC have by level 16? Any advice?
2. I would think Balance/Jump would fit in here, but with 1 skill point to use per level, I know constitution is a key factor also...this build had 90% of skill points allocated to constitution...smart or fail?
3. Please advise as to what you would move/change around! All input (positive and negative) will be taken into deep consideration.

Thanks in advance!

[tihocan]

As a side note I just added the Warpriest of Siberys revised path to this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660) this morning, if OP wants to compare ;)

[Gnorbert]

OP, one thing to consider is that a Held monster gets autocrit. So even with a small amount of strength on an otherwise fully Wis/Con Cleric can still be in a place to do some Melee fighting. Can even wield two weapons without the TWF feats against a held monster and do great things. I say, start with 12 strength, invest the rest in Wis and then Con and play like a battle cleric at lower levels. Get Hold Monster and later Mass Hold Monster and go to town. Maxed out Wis will mean your Holds will stick most of the time at lower levels and have a good chance mid to high levels.

Plan yourself pure level 20 cleric, there's no reason you can't melee along the way. Also, remember that everyone is proficient with the quarterstaff. Find yourself a nice one for Melee situations.

[Jasimine]

Hey rusty, thanks for the catch. Was about to face plant when I saw this thread and must have had my gears switched inside my head.

[KaplanPD]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Godsson GoldBludgeons
Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(1 Barbarian \ 19 Cleric)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 1396
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 5
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 15
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 17 24
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 13
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 4 26
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal 3 7
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 6 6.5
Listen 3 7
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 0 2
Spot 3 7
Swim 2 2
Tumble 1 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 2 (Cleric)
Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 4 (Cleric)
Level 5 (Cleric)
Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Level 7 (Cleric)
Level 8 (Cleric)
Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 10 (Cleric)
Level 11 (Cleric)
Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 13 (Cleric)
Level 14 (Cleric)
Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Level 16 (Cleric)
Level 17 (Cleric)
Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Level 19 (Cleric)
Level 20 (Cleric)

Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armored Agility I


First off, I really appreciate everybody's input on this subject matter. I can def. see there is a debate as far as the class/sub-class if you will is concerned. And I learned a lot from this post, especially how a 32pt build can make such an extreme diff. in customizing a build.

Secondly, I've revised my build to follow the above...Thanks to Carlll for the idea of starting as barb then furthering the career into full cleric. Also, thanks a bunch to tihocan for you honesty and for providing the build link, i def. used some of your ideas for this build. And again thanks to all for your input as well, I took every piece of info into consideration when reconstructing this build.

Lastly...what do you think about the above. I had a really hard time determining when to apply which feats, for instance, taking quicken at lvl 18 doesn't look right for some reason, lol. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Let me know what you think !

[cdemeritt]

I agree with tihocan, and I'll expand on that.

First, no cleric should ever be just standing in the back healing. Ever. For any reason.

While I'd agree with this 99% of the time... There are places where lag/damage is such that if a cleric isn't constantly spamming mass cures, things can get ugly in seconds (ToD anyone?)...

However, these are rare places, and most of the time a cleric can and should be casting, meleeing, and healing... Yes, my battlecleric isn't going to do the DPS of a Frenzy Bezerking Barbarian, but there are places such as sins of attrition where a cleric who is in range to heal the party will also be subject to attack from devils with random aggro... watched a intimatank make his intim, just to have the devil port off anyways. it is better to have a way to defend yourself than to just stand there...

Also A melee capable offensive casting cleric can still have a incredible healing power... My buffed up CMW Mass hits for more than a heal scroll on average....

The real trick/difference between a good battle/casting cleric and a Bad cleric is knowing when to step back and heal... or plain old keeping the party alive...

I would however recommend playing a pure cleric... easier to fix if you change your plans later on...

[tihocan]

Lastly...what do you think about the above. I had a really hard time determining when to apply which feats, for instance, taking quicken at lvl 18 doesn't look right for some reason, lol. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Let me know what you think !
You could take PA at L6, Maximize at L9 and Quicken at L15, then Empower Healing at L18. You can rely on Maximize instead of Empower Healing for mass Heals, even though it's less SP-efficient.

[KaplanPD]

Awesome, i'll revise that asap.

We'll see how this guy pans out, I think he'll be fun to play. ;)

[Kaldais]

Healing is the most inefficient ways of using one's spellpoints until you get the spell Heal.