Commonly overlooked Weapons of Awesomeness: for the Ranger

[KylarJ]

For the past two weeks I've had a weapon on the AH which has just refused to sell, despite it's low low price and it's absolute awesomeness, and that makes me believe that very few people really understand the vitally important concept of:

Backstabbing.

On the AH in Argonessen right now there are two weapons for sale at level 12. One is a +4 Holy Battleaxe of Pure Good, price tag 500,000gp, and the other is a +1 Frost Battleaxe of Backstabbing (+5 to hit, +8 damage), price tag 50,000gp.

Which is better? Well let's do some maths.

The Holy Battleaxe does, on average, (assuming evil monster): 2d6 (holy) + 1d8+4 (Battleaxe) + 1d6 (pure good) = 7 + 8.5 + 3.5 = 19 points a hit on average, plus strength and all that jazz.

The Frost Battleaxe, on the other hand, does: 1d6 (frost) + 1d8+1 (Battleaxe) + 8 (backstabbing) = 3.5 + 5.5 + 8 = 17 points on a hit on average, plus strength and all that jazz.

Note that the backstabbing is 8 points of damage per hit, every hit. Not 1d8. Just 8.

So which is better?

Well, the holy/good does 19 on average and the frost/backstabber does 17.

Add to that the fact that the battleaxe also adds +5 to hit rolls on every hit too. So fewer misses.

Add to THAT the fact that the backstabbing battleaxe ***also causes your other equipped weapon to gain +5 to hit and +8 backstabbing***, as backstabbing (and seeker, incidentally) effects BOTH equipped weapons, and therefore causes your off-hand attacks to have a +8 added to EACH HIT AS WELL.

Now which looks better?

Oh, and one is priced at 500,000gp, and the other at 50,000gp.

Now the question very simply becomes: how do you maximise your backstabbing chances?

I'll tell you what you *don't* do - you *DON'T* stand behind the bad guys!!!

In DDO, the mechanic for backstabbing works like this. If you attack a monster, and that monster isn't focused on you, then you backstab. That's it.

So, if you're soloing, you sneak up on a monster and at the last second he notices you, and you hit him in the back - it's not a backstab. In fact, if you're soloing you can forget backstabbing weapons.

But if you're in a group, and the fighter or the barbarian has run in first (as they do) and you've hung back slightly, because you're a wiley coyote Ranger, then ALL the aggro goes on the body-pulling barb/fighter, and that means that EVERY HIT you do on a monster is a backstab. Wherever you're standing. Wherever they're standing.

That's a serious lot of damage in the hands of a TWF Ranger with a decent backstabber in one hand, and a decent seeker in the other.

Who also still has some money in the bank.

Watch the kills go up :)


P.s. Yes, I know Khopeshes are better than Battleaxes. They're also 5-10 times the price. This post isn't written for the 3-year vets with greensteel reincarnated toons. It's for first-timers on the F2P forum. :)

[Sirea]

Anyone who's serious about DPS is going to be trying to get Backstabbing and Seeker in other slots , namely, Tharne's Goggles/Bloodstone or, on my monk for example, Mentau's Goggles/Wretched Twilight, so they can free up their weapons for greensteel, metalline/PG, Greater X Bane, etc.

Not to mention that Battleaxes aren't exactly the best weapons you can use.

[wolflordnexus]

battle axes fall in the same category as long swords the only folks that would use them aka dwarves have better options aka DWA which aren't that expensive TBH otherwise if you have martial your doing scimitar rapier
the occasional fvs might pick up a ss or long sword and if your going battle axe you may as well go whole hog and use heavy picks. back stabing and seeker are available in other slots and if you want them on weapons there is plenty to be had you can get them on house vendors if you just keep an eye out.

[blitzschlag]

battle axes are imo only usefull as vorpal where it does not matter too much how many damage you do before you behead your foe. the limited critical range makes it a poor choice for anything other, really.

[Bacab]

what the other people said...

But he is right. Tharne's are a quasi-rare drop. So if you lack other things, Backstabbing on a weapon is pretty good for BRDs ROGs...pretty much any light-DPS-type.

[zealous]

Anyone who's serious about DPS is going to be trying to get Backstabbing and Seeker in other slots , namely, Tharne's Goggles/Bloodstone or, on my monk for example, Mentau's Goggles/Wretched Twilight, so they can free up their weapons for greensteel, metalline/PG, Greater X Bane, etc.

You won't have Tharne's at level 8-12 seeing as you need to be level 13 to equip them. You are unlikely to have any of the mentioned items readily available as a new player.



Not to mention that Battleaxes aren't exactly the best weapons you can use.

battle axes fall in the same category as long swords the only folks that would use them aka dwarves have better options aka DWA which aren't that expensive TBH otherwise if you have martial your doing scimitar rapier


battle axes are imo only usefull as vorpal where it does not matter too much how many damage you do before you behead your foe. the limited critical range makes it a poor choice for anything other, really.
Good ads+bad weapon can sometimes be as good or better than bad ads+good weapon.

Let's take a example. Non-dwarf ranger wielding +2 holy battleaxe of greater bane + frost battleaxe of backstabbing +5 vs. dual +4 holy khopesh of pg.
Str:30=>+15/+7 mod, +11 avg.
FE:12
rams:2
PA:5
weapon base:4.5
base tot: 38.5/30.5

Dual Khopesh:6*3.5 effects+(30.5 oh+4 enh+38.5 mh+4 enh)*1.35 critmod=124.95
Dual Battleaxe:6*3.5 effects +2*8 backstabbing+(30.5 oh +1 enh + 6 enh +38.5 mh)*1.15=124.4

Now getting your hands on dual +4 holy khopesh of pg...will likely be v e r y costly. However, due to some people only judging a weapon by it's type, getting those battleaxes or something similar wouldn't be as unfeasible.


what the other people said...

But he is right. Tharne's are a quasi-rare drop. So if you lack other things, Backstabbing on a weapon is pretty good for BRDs ROGs...pretty much any light-DPS-type.
Labeling Rog as light-DPS would be ignorant.

[FuzzyDuck81]

On a slightly different note regarding overlooked weapons, do many people use warhammers? I've been considering a dual warhammer fighter or barbarian build - ok the crit range isnt as great as khopeshes & base damage isnt as good as dwarf axes BUT... a single if not dual 5% weighted? would the high chance of un-saveable stun (in addition to the +10 DC of stunning blow) for auto-crits make it worth it?

[Bacab]

when I said "light DPS" I was refering to armor type...not numbers. Or how "squishy" a melee is.

AKA ROG lacks heavy armor (read DR) and glancing blows can tear a ROG up pretty quick due to (most) ROG's lower HP. ROG is extremely high DPS on non-fortified monsters.

I consider BRD RNG ROG even a MNK is light DPS to me. Though all 4 of those can either use displacement (self-buffed) or have a high AC if built for that. None of those have high DR inherently.

Also I meant as "non original aggro" melees. Generally a ROG does better when someone else has aggro. Without sneak attack...ROGs are kinda bad dmg vs a FTR or RNG or BRB.

[Rasczak]

Salespeople are getting good.....I almost rushed out quickly to get that one and then I thought, "Wait, I'm not on that server"...My second thought was "mwuhahahahahahahahahaha"

Backstabbing? Um...no.

So are you complaining because a weapon you feel is useful, noone else does or is it just you looking for someone to say how right you are?

[hecate355]

yes go ahead and compare backstabbing with holy and other non aggro/fortification dependant effects
as typical melee without any kind of aggro pushing off possibility, how the h8ll you compare those after you get aggro anyway with dps.
looks cool on paper, in reality, dont think so

[KylarJ]

yes go ahead and compare backstabbing with holy and other non aggro/fortification dependant effects
as typical melee without any kind of aggro pushing off possibility, how the h8ll you compare those after you get aggro anyway with dps.
looks cool on paper, in reality, dont think so

Wrong.

At low-mid levels, you don't pull aggro off the initial puller before the mobs are dead anyway.

You just simply let another melee go in first - like I said. And there's no shortage of people who will.

As for the battleaxe debate - of course it's a **** weapon. But it's cheap. But that's not the point - backstabber obviously comes on anything.

And of course if you can get backstabber and seeker on epic loot then do so - but most first-timers at this level can't. It is the F2P forum, yannow.

[blitzschlag]

Good ads+bad weapon can sometimes be as good or better than bad ads+good weapon.

Let's take a example. Non-dwarf ranger wielding +2 holy battleaxe of greater bane + frost battleaxe of backstabbing +5 vs. dual +4 holy khopesh of pg.
Str:30=>+15/+7 mod, +11 avg.
FE:12
rams:2
PA:5
weapon base:4.5
base tot: 38.5/30.5

Dual Khopesh:6*3.5 effects+(30.5 oh+4 enh+38.5 mh+4 enh)*1.35 critmod=124.95
Dual Battleaxe:6*3.5 effects +2*8 backstabbing+(30.5 oh +1 enh + 6 enh +38.5 mh)*1.15=124.4

Now getting your hands on dual +4 holy khopesh of pg...will likely be v e r y costly. However, due to some people only judging a weapon by it's type, getting those battleaxes or something similar wouldn't be as unfeasible.



so in your biased comparison the bad ads+good weapon is still better even if you take backstabbing into account. bad weapons stay bad weapons 95% of the time.

only highly specific bad weapons are really worth considering. e.g. holy burst silver of g_ob or the like.

sure bad weapons are cheaper in general but imo the aim of this game is to be game-effective and not ingame-cost-effective.

[asphodeli]

aren't certain mobs immune to backstabbing too?

[KylarJ]

so in your biased comparison the bad ads+good weapon is still better even if you take backstabbing into account. bad weapons stay bad weapons 95% of the time.

only highly specific bad weapons are really worth considering. e.g. holy burst silver of g_ob or the like.

sure bad weapons are cheaper in general but imo the aim of this game is to be game-effective and not ingame-cost-effective.

Gosh, you've really failed to understand, haven't you?

Well done.

[KylarJ]

So are you complaining because a weapon you feel is useful, noone else does or is it just you looking for someone to say how right you are?


Neither ;)

As no one was interested in buying it from the AH and in the end I gave that battleaxe to a non-khopesh level 12 ranger - and she was very happy.

I'm only right insomuch as the character who uses such a weapon isn't a second (or later) character bankrolled by a higher level. Even someone who has read up enormously before first rolling their toon, paid for the 32 point upgrade and specifically designed a khopesh ranger from scratch won't be interested in that - but these, people, are NOT first-timers.

First-timers, on the other hand, can save a helluva lot of money - and still be EXTREMELY effective - by understanding mechanics such as backstabbing and seeker, and how it can benefit them.

I'm not saying battleaxes are good (they're not), or that this is the way to go for your greensteel design ;)

I think I've been quite clear, actually, in both what I am and what I'm not saying :P

KJ

[Shaamis]

a dual-khopesh wielding strength based rogue with max enhancements in subtle backstabbing can be a pretty awesome DPS-er:

28 str
10d6 backstab damage/hit
+12 for rogue enhancements
+5 Lit II Khopeshes
Power attack +/-8 (WF enhancement)
-40% hate

I love my WF rogue.

Reavers Fate: Treason is a perfect weapon for what the OP is talking about

[KylarJ]

aren't certain mobs immune to backstabbing too?

Yes.

And crits and disruption and paralyzing and vorpal and frost and fire and acid and vertigo and and and...

You clearly have to use the right weapon for the right mob.

In my example in the OP, I assumed that the mob in question was vulnerable to both holy/good and to backstabbing/frost. As many are.

KJ.

[zealous]

when I said "light DPS" I was refering to armor type...not numbers. Or how "squishy" a melee is.
Then I was the one being ignorant :o


so in your biased comparison the bad ads+good weapon is still better even if you take backstabbing into account. bad weapons stay bad weapons 95% of the time.

Not really, 30str doesn't really give a +15 modifier ;)

So yeah, it is kinda biased in favor of the khopesh...


only highly specific bad weapons are really worth considering. e.g. holy burst silver of g_ob or the like.
False. Good ads can outweigh a bad weapon, esp. prior to obtaining I.crit.



sure bad weapons are cheaper in general but imo the aim of this game is to be game-effective and not ingame-cost-effective.
And thus you should not make your judgement based on weapon type alone.
___
Let's take some more examples to illustrate more clearly.
Ranger described previously described except now he's a dwarf:
off hand Frost battle axe o backstabbing:3.5+16+31.5*1.15=55.725
off hand +4 holy khopesh of pure good:3*3.5+32.5*1.35=54.375
i.e. for a dwarf the supposedly crappy battleaxe the op described would be better than a +4 holy khopesh of pure good, and even for a non-dwarf it would be fairly close.

Now a +4 holy khopesh of pure good isn't exactly your run o the mill weapon. If we compare the battle axe to something more realistic, like say a +2 holy khopesh of deception, wielded by a WF 13 ranger/1 monk/1 rog with str 26 prior to rams, assuming full WF PA enhancements.
oh battleaxe:3.5+16+28.5*1.15=52.275
oh khopesh:2*3.5+31.5*1.35=49.525
Clearly the battle axe is a better off hand weapon, esp. if you consider not hitting on a roll of 2.

Now a frost of backstabbing khopesh would obviously be even better, and a +5 holy silver khopesh of greater bane even more so, esp. if you have tharnes. Point being that if you take some time to think about it you can make up for not having as much twink as long as you try to be as good as you can.

[systemstate]

OP, as a new player myself, I totally get what you're saying. I don't know why everyone is bringing khopeshes into this.

Your point is that when on a budget, as most new players are, you don't always have to drop half a mil to get a decent interim weapon. Sometimes you can come close with much less plat if you take the time to learn what the specs do and how to leverage multiple weapon/item effects.

In my particular case, I only recently learned what backstabbing does. I also just learned that backstabbing on weapon transfers to the other if TWF. If I had known this earlier on, I very well might have picked one of these weapons up instead of saving up/holding out for the holy+pg types. Consequently, I have spent most of my time being flat broke.

Honestly, I originally thought that backstabbing weapons were really designed for rogues. No, I never really read the description of the effect before- it was truly just an assumption. But that's why I never picked one up. I imagine other new players have similar thoughts.

I definitely pay more attention in the AH now when looking for better weapons. Thanks for your post.

[Jasimine]

Neither ;)

As no one was interested in buying it from the AH and in the end I gave that battleaxe to a non-khopesh level 12 ranger - and she was very happy.

I'm only right insomuch as the character who uses such a weapon isn't a second (or later) character bankrolled by a higher level. Even someone who has read up enormously before first rolling their toon, paid for the 32 point upgrade and specifically designed a khopesh ranger from scratch won't be interested in that - but these, people, are NOT first-timers.

First-timers, on the other hand, can save a helluva lot of money - and still be EXTREMELY effective - by understanding mechanics such as backstabbing and seeker, and how it can benefit them.

I'm not saying battleaxes are good (they're not), or that this is the way to go for your greensteel design ;)

I think I've been quite clear, actually, in both what I am and what I'm not saying :P

KJ

I don't know why everyone is giving you such flak over this. You are right, for a first time player with out access to alot of the high end gear back stabbing on a weapon can rock. It is increadibly helpful and generally more accessable than weapons of pure good (the other common damage suffix) since pure good weapons tend to carry a HUGE price tag associated with them.

And again, folks, while there are items like Tharnes Goggles lets be realistic here. Tharnes goggles drop in a level 18 raid. How many first timers are even going to step foot in there prior to level 16 or 17 at the earliest? Especially since most groups seem scared to run the Vale packs 3 raids with anyone less than level 18 these days.

Thank you KJ for trying to help newer players with your post, I hope some of them will read this and realize the post is not about the weapon type (i.e. Khopesh vs Longsword vs Scimitar vs Battle Axe vs Dwarf Axe) but rather about the modifier Backstabbing.

I would like to add that while you do not need to be behind someone to get the sneak attack damage from backstabbing weapons players that are not tanks should still attempt to get behind their targets. It gives them a fun flanking bonus to hit plus can save them damage when mobs start using cleave and great cleave in higher levels if they get used to this tactic.

[Belwaar]

On a slightly different note regarding overlooked weapons, do many people use warhammers? I've been considering a dual warhammer fighter or barbarian build - ok the crit range isnt as great as khopeshes & base damage isnt as good as dwarf axes BUT... a single if not dual 5% weighted? would the high chance of un-saveable stun (in addition to the +10 DC of stunning blow) for auto-crits make it worth it?

I have a Tempest Frenzied Berserker that dual wields Dwarven Axes and Warhammers all the time. It's a fun toon to play. :)

[systemstate]

I wonder, does the backstabbing weapon enhancement have a 100% proc rate on paralyzed mobs?

[Cap_Man]

I wonder, does the backstabbing weapon enhancement have a 100% proc rate on paralyzed mobs?

No.

A paralyzed mob does not give you auto sneak attack. But you can diplo a paralyzed mob and then get in a sneak attack or two ;)

And in regards to the OP, great post for new players. You see a lot of new players complaining about the cost of really good gear when in some cases there are alternatives available that are almost as good for a fraction of the cost.

[Missing_Minds]

I do not know if this is still true or not, but there was a time that the "backstab" weapon effect damage was untyped, and it would hit (I think) anything. I know for a fact, it did hit undead and did damage.

I was using a holy warhammer of backstab in Cursed Crypt and couldn't figure out where the extra damage number was coming from. Figured that out.

[KylarJ]

I do not know if this is still true or not, but there was a time that the "backstab" weapon effect damage was untyped, and it would hit (I think) anything. I know for a fact, it did hit undead and did damage.

I was using a holy warhammer of backstab in Cursed Crypt and couldn't figure out where the extra damage number was coming from. Figured that out.

This is true in a lot of cases. Backstabbing damage does seem to hit some mobs you think it shouldn't.

And some mobs you think it should hit don't seem affected - Gordon Brown, for example.

[Bracosius]

I disagree with the to-hit assumption. The +5 on backstab is if you do not have aggro. The +4 is always +4. To assume you can always tailor the situation to bring you the full +5 is unrealistic.

Your mad because your weapon didn't sell on the auction house. It was vendor trash that didn't sell and still is. Making a forum thread does not change that.

[Al_Capwned]

OP makes a good point. I'm a newish f2p player and my build called for rapiers.
I could either afford sub par rapiers with bad mods on them, or for 1/10th the cost I could get myself some sweet short swords with awesome mods on them. I went for the shortsword and I don't regret it. Rapiers will come in due time but for now, the 'inferior" short sword with sweet mods is actually far better than any rapier i've found or could afford on the auction block / merchants.

That's really what it's about.

[Emili]

a dual-khopesh wielding strength based rogue with max enhancements in subtle backstabbing can be a pretty awesome DPS-er:

28 str
10d6 backstab damage/hit
+12 for rogue enhancements
+5 Lit II Khopeshes
Power attack +/-8 (WF enhancement)
-40% hate

I love my WF rogue.

Reavers Fate: Treason is a perfect weapon for what the OP is talking aboutAlways did like those little blue popsicles (Mmmm blueberry)... have 5 in the banks awaiting for the day GH goes epic. ;)

[Jasimine]

I disagree with the to-hit assumption. The +5 on backstab is if you do not have aggro. The +4 is always +4. To assume you can always tailor the situation to bring you the full +5 is unrealistic.

Your mad because your weapon didn't sell on the auction house. It was vendor trash that didn't sell and still is. Making a forum thread does not change that.

I think what is happening here is you are mad that someone is trying to get people to take another look at backstabbing weapons when you are trying to corner the market on holy/pg weapons. J/K

Simple fact is Holy of Pure Good and Holy of Greater Bane weapons are out of the price range of most new players. I myself when I first started the game looked at the prices of some of the weapons on the AH and thought people were insane! I still do from time to time... like that +1 holy dagger for 1 mil I saw just the other day on Sarlona.. really now 1 Mil for a +1 Holy dagger with nothing else on it?

Backstabbing weapons are indeed 2nd runner to the more traditional weapons people preach for melee to use. However, if you are not a primary tank and are smart you can get good milage out of these and for the new player they are relatively dirt cheap, particularly compared to many of the other weapons out there.

When a newbie only has 50,000 gold to upgrade their weapon from some +1 flaming sword of newbness and see all the Holy of Pure good and Elemental Burst weapons going for 150k + it can be disheartening. Finding a nice high backstab mod weapon tho for cheap could be a very nice upgrade indeed for them.

[Bracosius]

Funds can be hard for new players to get. But it does not make the OP's weapon "Awesome". It makes it a cheap possible alternative.

But a new player should not be wasting 5k on a backstab weapon because they read it was good on the forums. The new player should frequent the house D vendor for the good values you can find there. Which is where your axe should have been.

If you really want to help fund starved new players gear up, give them items. But selling garbage for 5k plat is far from charitable.

[Jasimine]

Funds can be hard for new players to get. But it does not make the OP's weapon "Awesome". It makes it a cheap possible alternative.

But a new player should not be wasting 5k on a backstab weapon because they read it was good on the forums. The new player should frequent the house D vendor for the good values you can find there. Which is where your axe should have been.

If you really want to help fund starved new players gear up, give them items. But selling garbage for 5k plat is far from charitable.

While I agree that selling the said item at 5k plat isn't exactly charitable, look past that and to the base bit of information there. Backstabbing weapons can be a viable alternitive. Thats all.

And yes I do agree, help out new players by passing down some of that "vendor trash" that we seem to always pull. As you reach higher levels that 8 ML Longsword with +3 backstabbing tagged onto it may seem like trash but the newer folks can use it and likely will be thankful if they have any brains.

That said, I only help those who help themselves. If someone is begging for gear screw them. If someone is trying to learn and wants advice I'll MyDDO them and ask about a few items then dig into my supply of stuff and start passing out the goodies like heavy fort rings and belts and +4 to +6 stat items (depending on level)

[Bracosius]

... then dig into my supply of stuff and start passing out the goodies like heavy fort rings ...

+1 rep for helping supply heavy fort to the masses.

[Missing_Minds]

That said, I only help those who help themselves. If someone is begging for gear screw them. If someone is trying to learn and wants advice I'll MyDDO them and ask about a few items then dig into my supply of stuff and start passing out the goodies like heavy fort rings and belts and +4 to +6 stat items (depending on level)

Here here. I do the same. Or if someone went looking through the loot page and saw something they really wanted, but really didn't have the means for it. If they are new, but polite, I've been known to go through my stash, or make someone on the AH happy to give the new player a smile.

[FauxSho]

Backstabbing is a viable lower level suffix for group play, and because it's not as "sexay" a weapon suffix, they are good cheaper alternatives for newer players, likewise with the non-optimum weapon choices. The OP has a valid point in that. And the price of the weapon it was compared to is outrageous IMO... but the practice of comparing single AH price/buyout datapoints is inherently unreliable, since the only thing you can say for certain about an item on the AH is that it hasn't sold yet.

However, many people tend to solo the lower levels... which makes Backstabbing not so hot in that regard. And the important consideration for this recent failure to sell on the AH is that it's a Frost weapon, during the Risia Ice Games, while the alternative is a hot combination which could also currently have Frost or even Icy Burst added on top of it.

So, yes... Backstabbing is an undervalued suffix. And no, under current circumstances... neither of those prices the OP references are reasonable to me. However, if someone wants to put up another Ghost Touch of GUB Kama at a buyout of 50,000gp on the server I frequent most... I'd not be opposed to that. :D

[clanqui]

Holy/PG bypasses /good damage resistances.

That is a not small bonus in the mid levels.

[HallowedOne]

The new player should frequent the house D vendor for the good values you can find there. Which is where your axe should have been.


Think Broker's will make the weapons actually cost more, isn't it?

BTW, better to have 5k more plat on my bags and see the player get the stuff for 30-50% less, right? I mean, we all get out happy in the history! :D

[Uskathoth]

Thanks to the OP; this is useful information for a new player like myself.

Regarding the posters who point out that a backstabbing Battle Axe is not as good as a holy khopesh, I understand that. I cannot afford a holy khopesh so I am looking for what is "good" in the context of things that I can actually attain given my current situation and play style.

I have the impression from my limited time in the AH that if I am patient I can get very good deals on items that are generally better than the stuff I just happen to find in chests in normal dungeons but I cannot get good deals on very popular items (e.g. holy khopesh).

[Jasimine]

+1 rep for helping supply heavy fort to the masses.

Thank you for the rep. Being new myself (only started when the game went F2P) I know that sometimes the heavy fort issue can totally miss a players thought process until they step into something hard hitting for the first time and suddenly go ***!! So I try to spread the gospel as much as I can about this and the importance. We even have an unspoken policy in my guild that anyone who joins and is with out heavy fort is instantly taken to buy one, given one, or has one bought for them if they are level 12 or higher. Yea, you CAN wear them at level 11, but we give them a full level to find it for themselves before we dig into the guild funds. I have had a few newer members argue this with me wanting to keep certin items and being afraid to loose their bonus. However it is the firm belief of myself (2nd in command of the guild) and my partner in crime (more or less our head cleric) that if you want to step foot into anything intereasting you must have heavy fortification or we won't take you and that goes double for those who are in our guild.

[Bacab]

+1 rep for helping supply heavy fort to the masses.


This ^^

as a healer...this is the number one cause for wipes in the shroud (other than lag) Penalty box for the dead DPS...

[Kyrn]

This is true in a lot of cases. Backstabbing damage does seem to hit some mobs you think it shouldn't.

And some mobs you think it should hit don't seem affected - Gordon Brown, for example.

On that note, can you backstab portals?

[KylarJ]

Wow, I can't believe how much hate I've picked up over this thread from people who can't understand that we don't all roll new characters with 5 million in the bank - but thank you to everyone who has seen what I've been trying to say and supported me.

Anyway, it's all good if it gets more new folk reading it.



But a new player should not be wasting 5k on a backstab weapon because they read it was good on the forums. The new player should frequent the house D vendor for the good values you can find there. Which is where your axe should have been.


The base price of that axe is 98,019 gp. Which is what the House D vendor would sell it for. I was selling it for 50,000gp. Yes, I'm such a selfish man.

As I said earlier, I did end up giving it away, and the only thing I asked in return was when that person had finished with it, they passed it on for free to another level 12 non-khopesh-wielding ranger.

[Jasimine]

Wow, I can't believe how much hate I've picked up over this thread from people who can't understand that we don't all roll new characters with 5 million in the bank - but thank you to everyone who has seen what I've been trying to say and supported me.

Anyway, it's all good if it gets more new folk reading it.



The base price of that axe is 98,019 gp. Which is what the House D vendor would sell it for. I was selling it for 50,000gp. Yes, I'm such a selfish man.

As I said earlier, I did end up giving it away, and the only thing I asked in return was when that person had finished with it, they passed it on for free to another level 12 non-khopesh-wielding ranger.

The only reason your catching flak about the 5k plat issue is when you stop and look back, not many truely new newbies can afford to put out 5k plat on a subpar weapon. Giving them away, or nearly giving them away (Drop down to 1k plat on AH, your still getting more than you will from the broker) on the other hand would be charitable. Which is what you did in the end.

As for the flak in general yea your right, ignore it, brush it off, and then examine it some and see if there is anything you can learn and finally move on. Your intentions seemed well, just some times a few misphrasing of words and people get antsy. No biggie. In the end, no harm no foul.

But if you don't have heavy fortification I am going to send smurfs after you... you won't like the smurfs, they will do bad things.... bad things I say.

[Al_Capwned]

What's a reasonable price to pay for heavy fort? Or moderate fort(i'm level 10)?
All the ones on thelanis I see in AH are rediculously expensive.

[tihocan]

What's a reasonable price to pay for heavy fort? Or moderate fort(i'm level 10)?
All the ones on thelanis I see in AH are rediculously expensive.
At L11 get into the Orchard and obtain 20 tapestries for Minos, it's free :)
You should be able to find some cheap enough ML9 mod. fort item in the meantime (that's the kind of item many people would vendor on brokers).

[chadj82371]

At L11 get into the Orchard and obtain 20 tapestries for Minos, it's free

Not trying to be argumentative (which, of course, means I'm going to be-sorry :)), but if you are f2p getting into the Orchard will require you to purchase the Necro 4 pack so getting in is not free, but once you're in, collecting the tapestries to turn in will net the Minos Legens helm for free (+20 hp (that stacks with false life) and heavy fort). They drop in the rare encounter chests. Also, and this is from my very limited experience, at lvl 11 I would say look for groups farming taps in the Orchard, soloing out there at that level is difficult (at least it was for me).

Another idea is to purchase and/or collect adamantine ore from the quest Relic of a Sovereign Past (f2p, lvl 12 quest) (fyi, you pick up the quest in House D but run it from House K), there is a guy at the end of the mining hallway that will craft a heavy fort item for you if you turn in a certain number of ore pieces (I think it's 10 but I'm not sure). But Minos is better since you get the stackable hp with it.

[Al_Capwned]

Good info, thanks thugs.

[Bracosius]

What's a reasonable price to pay for heavy fort? Or moderate fort(i'm level 10)?
All the ones on thelanis I see in AH are rediculously expensive.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=233547

[spyder7723]

[QUOTE=Jasimine;2848344

But if you don't have heavy fortification I am going to send smurfs after you... you won't like the smurfs, they will do bad things.... bad things I say.[/QUOTE]


All fear the mighty smurfs!