Druids

[Suzaku]

Druids should be priority!

[Sirea]

Wow, I'm convinced!

Wait, what?

[AllanGreenspan]

http://www.h2dj.com/uclaradionews/files/borat-high-five.jpg

[prowessss]

druids are coming but probably 2011... to my understanding, they're going to flush out each class currently in game with a full set of PrEs... then add half-orcs... then probably half-elves, and then druids?

[KKDragonLord]

/signed

I wished the devs would just acknowledge Druids existence, not even a "druids by the end of 2011", just a "yeah, we'll get on that when the time comes" or even a "Soon(tm)"

The complete and total silence on the most passionately asked question was just depressing :(

[fatherpirate]

As odd as it sounds, I think they should add druids without the ability to change into animals (for the time
being)

That one issue seems to be the catching point to introducing them. So skip it, bring in druids and add it
latter as enhancement lines.

I know many would consider that sacreligous (however it is spelled) but if you shoot for perfection,
we may never get druids at all or certainly not for several years.

lets compromise, and get druids in.

[Dylos_Moon]

Druids are coming by the end of 2008, that's the only official word I can recall about druids.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/63555

[Memnir]

I'm over it.

If they can't implement Druids as-is from the PHB, best to leave em out. The fecalstorm that would arise from the Devs putting in Druids w/o shapeshifting would be massive - and frankly I'd be uninterested in playing one that cannot 'shift. If that is indeed the major obstacle in putting Druids in - then best to leave em out.

I'd like to play a Druid, sure. But, I'm beyond the point of ever expecting to actually see them in the game - and don't see the point in beating my head on the Turbine Wall of Silence™ anymore asking for em.


However, it would be great for Turbine to let us know something. Hell, Fernando commented on Cleric Dominions, even though they are only a maybe - and even then would be in 2011 at the earliest. Be nice to hear something like that on the Druids, even if it's not what we want to hear. That way we'd know - and we could stop having this same conversation every two or three days.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

That one issue seems to be the catching point to introducing them.

Also, we're missing like, 70% of their (core) spell list.
If they went in without any more spells being added, Mass Cure Crit would be your only 9th level spell, and Mass Cure Serious, Finger of Death, and Word of Recall the only 8th level spells.
To name a few.
So there's a lot of spell work to be done first as well.

[Kistilan]

druids are coming but probably 2011... to my understanding, they're going to flush out each class currently in game with a full set of PrEs... then add half-orcs... then probably half-elves, and then druids?

Druids and Half-Elves (being both social outcasts) will naturally be released together.

[fatherpirate]

Also, we're missing like, 70% of their (core) spell list.
If they went in without any more spells being added, Mass Cure Crit would be your only 9th level spell, and Mass Cure Serious, Finger of Death, and Word of Recall the only 8th level spells.
To name a few.
So there's a lot of spell work to be done first as well.

even without shapeshifting, they would need to add the druid spells, that is a given

[Trillea]

Also, we're missing like, 70% of their (core) spell list.
If they went in without any more spells being added, Mass Cure Crit would be your only 9th level spell, and Mass Cure Serious, Finger of Death, and Word of Recall the only 8th level spells.
To name a few.
So there's a lot of spell work to be done first as well.

Well according to Eladrin Update 5 will have spells that help the Pale Master, maybe they will introduce a rash of other new spells at the same time.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Well according to Eladrin Update 5 will have spells that help the Pale Master, maybe they will introduce a rash of other new spells at the same time.

That would be nice.
A lot of the missing druid spells are cleric/wizard spells that we just don't have yet. The remainder tend towards the 'not needed in this type of game' side of things.
And more spells means more options: always a good thing.

[mmm_peanuts]

Maybe they aren't releasing any info on druids because they've already secretly developed them and are going to surprise us all in the next mod with their inclusion :D Half-orcs, new spells, new quests ... and BLAM surprise druid!

One can only hope ...

[Kistilan]

Maybe they aren't releasing any info on druids because they've already secretly developed them and are going to surprise us all in the next mod with their inclusion :D Half-orcs, new spells, new quests ... and BLAM surprise druid!

One can only hope ...

Last time we got a Super Secret with Vast & Mysterious it took roughly 1 year 2 months to come, released Dungeon Alerts upon us, and introduced a class none of us had really been asking for (Favored Soul). I'm not sure we want any suprises anymore. :o Not that kind anyway.

[Fusiox]

I know druids are a hot topic (I'm waiting for druids meself) but just put yourself in the dev-team's shoes.

Imagine having to create a class that defies what the other classes can do. This class would have to be able to cast spells, fight like normal, and such (which isn't that hard to implement) but the problem would be the whole shapeshifting thing. Your character would have to look different not only to you, but to everyone that can see you, all at-will. You would have to have new skills such as smell, or maybe an "instinct" feat that greatly improves your listen, spot, jump, balance, and other "sense" and "physical" skills (maybe a new "smell"?), but greatly decreases "intelligent" skills like search, heal, concentrate, UMD, repair, and such, while you have shapeshifted. In fact, shapeshifting as a function, by itself, could probably take at least a year, given all the implications, gameplay and programming-wise, it would have, and the fact that not only do you have to program it by itself you have to create it in a way that works with a network spanning millions of players across the globe.

In a gameplay sense, it would probably render some of the other spellcaster classes as mediocre, since you would have a class skilled at incantations, healing, and casting while in "humanoid" form, but also immensly, martially, powerful as a massive, two-ton bear or wolf in "animal" form. As well, what if you could change into a bird? You could just fly by all the sword-swinging goons and peck the red-name bosses to submission. How could you program flying? Or even turning into a dolphin, or (if you're just that devious) a shark? It would probably help with the whole "underwater combat" thing the dev-team is promising right now, but you would have to swim and fight in a completely different way than a humanoid. In other words, it's a daunting task the average gamer would probably overlook.

In a happier note, if the dev-team hasn't said anything, that probably means they have a good surprise concerning druids on the roll. Don't you agree with me? I honestly think you should expect word of druids within the next one or two years. It's such a hot topic that if they announced a release date, the online community would barrage them with a swarm of suggestions, complaints, questions, comments, and other distracting things that could cause the released druid not to meet everyone's standards. I'd just wait patiently and keep scanning the forums for word from the official Turbine posters concerning druids, half-orcs, half-elves, swordmages (which would be pretty cool, although I just made it up completely) and other things people want but haven't gotten yet.

Just a thought.

A very long thought.

You probably want me to stop now.

Do you want me to stop now?

I can, if you want me to.

Come on, just say it already.

Voice your thoughts.

Make them as long as mine, if you want.

[fatherpirate]

well, with druids...in particular, thier ability to shape shift into any animal and also to talk to animals
in PnP..there are going to have to be some compromise...as is in all D+D computer games to date.

the shape shifting will have to be into a limited number of creatures, and talking to animals will prob. boil down to
a control panel for thier summoned pets...similar to hirelings.
That should be exclusive to Druids and thier pets/summons
Pale masters and thier undead pets
Rangers and thier animal summons........dats it....anyone else gets summons a pet - fine, but you can't give it direct instructions.

Serveral druids spells deal with buffing thier pet...no prob, if it is pet exclusive, give it a solid duration
to make it worth while. Call lightening would normally be only useable outdoors > kinda tough
to sell, most adventuring is indoors< maybe make it like chain lightening but D8's outdoors, D4's indoors.

If a druid spell, is also a standard (other class) spell, give them it as well

trackless step and such....to simulate you could give a druid an always on (4eye) min stealth
outdoors - out of combat.

Druids are very do-able and fun

[KKDragonLord]

On an interesting note, lightning strikes from greensteel weapons arent limited in closed spaces, so Call Lightning might not be either, but it could also work as the spell Static Charge, which is an indoor version of it, electrifies an area and zaps creatures at regular intervals. I first saw it in the Icewind Dale game.

[Original]

well, with druids...in particular, thier ability to shape shift into any animal and also to talk to animals
in PnP..there are going to have to be some compromise...as is in all D+D computer games to date.

the shape shifting will have to be into a limited number of creatures, and talking to animals will prob. boil down to
a control panel for thier summoned pets...similar to hirelings.
That should be exclusive to Druids and thier pets/summons
Pale masters and thier undead pets
Rangers and thier animal summons........dats it....anyone else gets summons a pet - fine, but you can't give it direct instructions.

Serveral druids spells deal with buffing thier pet...no prob, if it is pet exclusive, give it a solid duration
to make it worth while. Call lightening would normally be only useable outdoors > kinda tough
to sell, most adventuring is indoors< maybe make it like chain lightening but D8's outdoors, D4's indoors.

If a druid spell, is also a standard (other class) spell, give them it as well

trackless step and such....to simulate you could give a druid an always on (4eye) min stealth
outdoors - out of combat.

Druids are very do-able and fun

If I remember right Call Lighting does half-damage indoors

[Delacroix21]

I think shapeshifting is a major issue, but lets not forget that wizards and sorc's are supposed to have similar spells themselves (through shapechange). The true defining feature of druids is NOT shapeshifitng (as arcane can do it) but rather the kick booty animal companion that is to come with the class. But honestly I think it will just be another "summon monster" spell that cant even kill monsters 1/2 its own challenge rating like most of DDO summons.


As much as I would like druids added (though I would prefer WARLOCKs added), I think the Devs need to reevaluate their "new PrEs every other update" and focus on pushing them out ASAP. The PrEs ttransform DDO characters almost as much as adding a new class anyway.


That being said... GO WARLOCKS!:D Unlimited no-save damage spell, firewalls, haste, charisma bonus to saves (even bards can get this by splashing), UMD, innate DR, can shape change into a devil, invisibility... Man they are awesome and PERFECT for DDO!:D

[Seosamh]

I've been wanting a druid since I started playing the game, about 4 years ago now. I'm done holding my breath. However, one thing that struck me on the issue of shape-changing is the pale master litch form/wraith form/etc., it seems to me that this is the kind of tech that could be used for druids. Maybe?

[Avandaril_Faust]

I don't understand why shapechanging is such a difficult thing for the Dev's to get around. Give druids a number of forms they can use, so many times per day (In AD&D it was one reptile, one mammal, one bird). So maybe tey could transform into an already designed and developed animal that is already in the game (wolf, dog, bat, etc). I dunno... Just seems like that doesn't make much sense to me, but then again I am not a developer and dont really understand these things.

Call Lightning draws it from a nearby cloud or stormcloud. It's not usable indoors. I agree with the 1/2 damage thing tho, or maybe if the druid obtains an orb of storms, then it could be full power indoor. Not to mention, to call lightning, the druid had to give up their standard action to summon the bolt; IE they couldnt attack or cast spells, they had to concentrate on it. I get that it works different in DDO, but maybe another quirky drawback would be a failed concentration check would dispel the spell.

On another game I play, trackless step just gives the druid like a +4 bonus to hide and move silent rolls, thought that was a good way to handle it.

Woodland stride would be awesome, not getting slowed by water, webs, etc... nice.

AND entangle could work very similar to web, just not have the area, only it continues to entangle every round.

Druids would be fun! I like this thread.

[Belwaar]

As far as shapechanging, I think one issue would be the difficulty of changing to some animal, then changing back with all the appropriate armor skins on. To me, that jumps out, especially with all the different types of armor out there. take it fwiw

[Eladiun]

/signed

I wished the devs would just acknowledge Druids existence, not even a "druids by the end of 2011", just a "yeah, we'll get on that when the time comes" or even a "Soon(tm)"

The complete and total silence on the most passionately asked question was just depressing :(

They have made that mistake before and won't do it again. They have given dates missed them and gotten crucified for it...the server merge threw all their plans out of whack and they got cut no slack so why should they give a date that won't help them. It's a lose lose for them. You itching for druids...do like Cartman and freeze yourself till next year....

[Avandaril_Faust]

They have made that mistake before and won't do it again. They have given dates missed them and gotten crucified for it...the server merge threw all their plans out of whack and they got cut no slack so why should they give a date that won't help them. It's a loose loose for them. You itching for druids...do like Cartman and freeze yourself till next year....

lol... funny!

[KKDragonLord]

They have made that mistake before and won't do it again. They have given dates missed them and gotten crucified for it...the server merge threw all their plans out of whack and they got cut no slack so why should they give a date that won't help them. It's a loose loose for them. You itching for druids...do like Cartman and freeze yourself till next year....

IF you read what i said you would understand that im not asking for a date, they dont have to say, Druids sometime in the next 5 years. (although that would probably be ok).

All im asking is a "Yes, Druids, we will get on that, Someday".

[Lillith87]

Druids are awesome.!!! I can't wait till I can make one!

[Lillith87]

Just testing to see if signature works...

[fatherpirate]

As for warlocks....ya that would be cool as well.

On summoned pets not being tough enuff to...er..properly represent a druid, 3 things will be
able to make them stand apart.

1. Druids will have buffs just for thier pets.
2. Druids will have a command bar to make a pet more useful...similar to wow hunters
(in wow, a hunters pet can be just as dangerous as the hunter)
3. ...an odd but important addition that will make druid pets very functional, They should
be represented in the party list. > What would that do?, it would allow party members
to monitor the pets health and offer heals to it, or buffs as needed.

One of the main reasons for <pet squishiness> is that, nobody can see when a pet
needs help...even the best fighters need heals during tough battles.

If you want a dynamic druid pet, don't think summon monster - think wow hunter.

Bonus - if the druids main pet, choosen at level 1 gets to lvl itself based on the
the experience the druid gets divided by the % of 'druid class' the druid has.

Like this - Druid lvl 8 ' no other classes' - main pets gets full exp and should be lvl 8
Druid lvl 1/ Fighter lvl 9 - main pets gets 10% of players exp...but given time WILL
advance..slowly.

ok, game on

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

I'd like to play a Druid, sure. But, I'm beyond the point of ever expecting to actually see them in the game - and don't see the point in beating my head on the Turbine Wall of Silence™ anymore asking for em.

Well, on the bright side, the Turbine Wall of Silence is coming down... Soon™!

In all seriousness, I'm sad to say that I have to agree. They know how much people want druids, they know how much revenue they could get by selling them... the only logical reason they aren't adding them is that they can't. Maybe that'll change sometime in the future (Eladrin's mention of Wildmages shapeshifting into crates could be construed as promising), but I just don't see it happening in the next 18 months, if at all.

Still, I suppose we can keep on hoping... FvS was kept secret until people saw spell components for them at vendors.

[NuclearCoffee]

With PNP it was my main toons!! I was so disapointed when I saw no druids in game.

/signed

[Uska]

As odd as it sounds, I think they should add druids without the ability to change into animals (for the time
being)

That one issue seems to be the catching point to introducing them. So skip it, bring in druids and add it
latter as enhancement lines.

I know many would consider that sacreligous (however it is spelled) but if you shoot for perfection,
we may never get druids at all or certainly not for several years.

lets compromise, and get druids in.

I would rather never get druids over getting them without shapechange.

[KKDragonLord]

I would rather never get druids over getting them without shapechange.

/agreed

[MaugDeepaxe]

Call Lightning draws it from a nearby cloud or stormcloud. It's not usable indoors. I agree with the 1/2 damage thing tho, or maybe if the druid obtains an orb of storms, then it could be full power indoor. Not to mention, to call lightning, the druid had to give up their standard action to summon the bolt; IE they couldnt attack or cast spells, they had to concentrate on it. I get that it works different in DDO, but maybe another quirky drawback would be a failed concentration check would dispel the spell.

They removed the restriction for casting indoors from the 3.5 version. You now get bonus damage if outdoors in a stormy area.


Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.

You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed. However, each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).

If you are outdoors and in a stormy area—a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size)—each bolt deals 3d10 points of electricity damage instead of 3d6.

This spell functions indoors or underground but not underwater.

As to the other thing about it using an action. I would have the spell icon activate a call lightning buff upon the first press of the hotkey. Any further presses of the call lightning hotkey would call the lightning down on the targeted creature while the buff was active. The buff would last the standard duration or caster level(max10) uses whichever was used up first.

[Kyrn]

I know druids are a hot topic (I'm waiting for druids meself) but just put yourself in the dev-team's shoes.

Imagine having to create a class that defies what the other classes can do. This class would have to be able to cast spells, fight like normal, and such (which isn't that hard to implement) but the problem would be the whole shapeshifting thing. Your character would have to look different not only to you, but to everyone that can see you, all at-will. You would have to have new skills such as smell, or maybe an "instinct" feat that greatly improves your listen, spot, jump, balance, and other "sense" and "physical" skills (maybe a new "smell"?), but greatly decreases "intelligent" skills like search, heal, concentrate, UMD, repair, and such, while you have shapeshifted. In fact, shapeshifting as a function, by itself, could probably take at least a year, given all the implications, gameplay and programming-wise, it would have, and the fact that not only do you have to program it by itself you have to create it in a way that works with a network spanning millions of players across the globe.

In a gameplay sense, it would probably render some of the other spellcaster classes as mediocre, since you would have a class skilled at incantations, healing, and casting while in "humanoid" form, but also immensly, martially, powerful as a massive, two-ton bear or wolf in "animal" form. As well, what if you could change into a bird? You could just fly by all the sword-swinging goons and peck the red-name bosses to submission. How could you program flying? Or even turning into a dolphin, or (if you're just that devious) a shark? It would probably help with the whole "underwater combat" thing the dev-team is promising right now, but you would have to swim and fight in a completely different way than a humanoid. In other words, it's a daunting task the average gamer would probably overlook.

In a happier note, if the dev-team hasn't said anything, that probably means they have a good surprise concerning druids on the roll. Don't you agree with me? I honestly think you should expect word of druids within the next one or two years. It's such a hot topic that if they announced a release date, the online community would barrage them with a swarm of suggestions, complaints, questions, comments, and other distracting things that could cause the released druid not to meet everyone's standards. I'd just wait patiently and keep scanning the forums for word from the official Turbine posters concerning druids, half-orcs, half-elves, swordmages (which would be pretty cool, although I just made it up completely) and other things people want but haven't gotten yet.

Just a thought.

A very long thought.

You probably want me to stop now.

Do you want me to stop now?

I can, if you want me to.

Come on, just say it already.

Voice your thoughts.

Make them as long as mine, if you want.

1) The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. For example, a druid who has never been outside a temperate forest could not become a polar bear. ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rs/20030610a )

For reference, other than rats, bats (which I've never seen fly more than a couple feet over ground), hounds, spiders, scorpions, ranger cats, what other non-outsider creatures do we have around?

2) Polymorphed (Wild Shape is based on it) creatures gain the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution of their new forms, as well as size, extraordinary special attacks, movement capabilities (to a maximum of 120 feet for flying and 60 for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, and other gross physical qualities such as appearance and number of limbs. They retain their original class and level, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, hit points, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and alignment. ( http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Polymorph )

In essence, it wouldn't make intelligent skills weaker, BUT it may make certain skills no longer usable.

3) One of the main issues of druids is that most (if not all, ruling depends on GM) of their gear is rendered non-functional during a wild shift. This works well when the setting is focused more on capability than items, but for DDO, it is very much items based. Balancing between the two is non-trival.

4) We already have polymorph in a sort-of form: Pale Master forms are for all intents and purposes an undead polymorph. Though admittedly that, along with monk unarmed attacks, are still not quite working-ish.

[fatherpirate]

well, with druid some stuff will need to be dropped, some changed ect.

Things that will be dropped-

Flying, talking to animals and other things the game cannot translate or require rebuilding
half the dungeons.

Things that will change-

tracking by smell, might be made into a bonus to listen
pass without trace into a passive sneak mode or such.

Things I expect to see- animal forms to be based on enhancement choices
a limited number of animal choices with some forms only available to higher lvls.
A natural bonus (based on lvl) to bite and claw damage - similar to monk hand-to-hand damage

but all in all, I think they are up to the task.

[woundweaver]

woot!! another druid thread! seriously, they need to implement them, but we are getting half orcs. half orcs have some interest, but not like the druid. i personally wont buy a half orc, character slot or otherwise. have no interest in playing one. it will be another half-cocked idea from turbine, halfway tested, and halfway released in full form, seeing as it will take a couple updates to perfect the bugs in them, or the bugs they cause. +2 strength, and an ugly face. lotta work, there. you would think that after 4 years, they would appease the customer base and give us druids, which would financially send turbine through the roof, and make their complete playerbase happy people. we will get more festivals, egg hunts, ice games and bunny hats before we get druids, or client crashes fixed. because those are the important things. seems turbine wants to constantly bring in new players, but not keep the ones they have, the ones whos stuck it out for 3+ years. its why i said they dont care about that contest, their bank accounts say they are fine. if they cared, they would do things to appease the unhappy masses. which is why i care not to vote for them. someones gotta have priorities here...give us druids!!

[Avandaril_Faust]

1/2 orcs...

When are we getting 1/2 elves and gnomes, or is that even a distant possibility? Cleric domains would also be nice.

[axebender]

well here is the rumour i hear from a very reliable source......since paladins did not get mounts implemented the devs intend on letting us mount the druids. shhhh