Attack Speed and Handwraps

[Dreamcoil]

Just to explain myself: I am a very experienced PnP player who is relatively new to the DDO community (lvl 9 FvS is my current highest with lots of rerolls and alts.)


Lately I have been doing a lot of thinking and research on the subject of Attack Speed and have decided that I want a build based on such. After seeing the "Big F'n Stick" I figured some variation of that or one of the many Tempest hybrids I have been seeing would be best suited, but then I began to examine handwraps.

This post: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=181368 intrigued me, particularly what Gadget2775 has to say about unarmed combat: "Unarmed TWF is faster than Armed simply because the Armed animation takes longer to complete."

In another post, Eladrin confirms this: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2418836&postcount=54
All weapon styles should have the same number of main hand attacks per minute if you stand there holding down the attack button. (Except monk unarmed combat, which is around 10-12% faster. Flurry of blows!)"

Its possible this info is outdated, but it seems to still be true today.

So, if I am reading into everything right, then wearing handwraps (which use the same animation as monk unarmed combat) as a level one monk with TWF gives you the same benefits as Tempest I Alacrity, Tempest III penalty to hit reduction (no penalty for unarmed), and the addition (which it seems nothing else gives) of having your full STR MOD apply to offhand DMG. That seems pretty potent.

You can then add to the Unarmed Monk Alacrity with some combination of:
Wind Stance I-IV: 15-30% static boost (with partial enhancement bonus that does not stack with Haste)
Rogue/Fighter Haste Boost I-IV:15-30% boost for 20 seconds

Some Possible Configurations (Will assume a 10% alacrity for monk Unarmed Animation):

Fighter 12/Monk 6:
Alacrity: 10%(unarmed)+15%(WSII)+30%(FHBIV)+5%(Haste)=60% Boost to Attack Speed (25% unbuffed)
Problems: Not sure what is to be done about the other 2 levels. Could just punt and go Fighter 14/Monk 6. Monk 7-8 is seriously underwhelming as are most of the monk enhancements at this level (unless I'm missing something?)

Fighter 18/Monk 2:
Alacrity: 10%(unarmed)+10%(WSI)+30%(FHBIV)+7.5%(Haste)=57.5% Boost to Attack Speed (20% unbuffed)
Problems: Would like to have that extra 5% unbuffed AS. Monk unarmed damage is only 1d6. Loss of +1 AC. This is the build I'm leaning toward as it boasts Kensai III and maybe the most selectable feats possible in a build (?)


Any help with this build would be appreciated, as well as reasons as to why it doesnt stack up. I'm not going to do a full Char Gen report, just give the basics.

The Shotokan (gotta name your build right?)
Drow 18 Fighter/2 Monk (Human probably a better choice, but no 32 pt access)

Starting Attributes:
STR: 16
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 14
CHA: 10
Level Bonuses: +1 Dex at lvl 4, +4 STR the remaining

Levels and Feats:
1: Monk
Two Weapon Fighting
Toughness (Monk Bonus)
2: Monk
Dodge (Monk Bonus)
3: Fighter
Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning (Fighter Bonus)
Power Attack
4: Fighter
Mobility (FB)
5: Fighter
6: Fighter
Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning (FB)
Spring Attack
7: Fighter
8: Fighter
ITWF (FB)
9: Fighter
Imp. Crit: Bludgeoning
10: Fighter
Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning (FB)
11: Fighter
12: Fighter
GTWF (FB)
?
13: Fighter
14: Fighter
Greater Weapon Spec.: Bludgeoning (FB)
15: Fighter
?
16: Fighter
?
17: Fighter
18: Fighter
Superior Weapon Focus (FB)
Combat Expertise (if can find +3 INT tome)
19: Fighter
20: Fighter
Improved Trip (if Combat Expertise available)

Enhancements are easily respecced so I wont get into that right now. The real problem is what to do with my extra feats. Stunning Blow? With Handwraps lacking weighted? would it still be useful? More Toughness? Some Skill or Save Boost Feats?

Also how do you feel about my assertion that TWF+Handwraps+Alacrity Bonuses>THF+Quarterstave+Alacrity Bonuses?

[Consumer]

Monks->evasion->shotokan->Machida - thought I'd point that out

Look for the Godhand build, its WF but covers what you want. Higher dps than a level 20 monk with the extra advantage of very high HP and the ability to fill multiple roles.

[cforce]

Also, even if you don't like the WF route, there's a ton of good discussion on DPS with Handwraps in "The Hammer":

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198514

I ran some of the numbers on that build myself, and found it stacks up *very* well vs. other top tier builds when attacking low-fort opponents, and beats them in many high-fort cases.

[Dreamcoil]

The GodHand (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=228369) build (WF 12 Fighter/8 Monk):

I cant help but feel like 6 levels of monk aren't as useful as 6 of fighter. With those 6 levels of monk you gain (over 6 of Fighter):
+20ft speed, 1d10 damage die, +2 AC, Access to a Path, Access to 2nd tier Stances, some skill pts, Slow Fall, Purity and Wholeness of Body

With 6 levels of Fighter you gain (over 6 of Monk):
3 more feats, more hp, Access to: Extra Action Boost II, Weapon Mastery II, Superior Weapon Focus, Mobility III, Kensai III bonuses.


The Godhand doesnt even use the Path, and I wouldnt either, but I also dont think the 2nd tier stances are anything to write home about when you already have the 1st tier. The best advantage I see is the +2 AC which can be washed out circumstantially with the selection of Mobility 3 (with the 18f/2m build) and some good twitch skills (not sure it would be worth it though).

Kensai III is bigger than anything offered by the 6 levels of monk imo, but those 3 extra feats from Fighter are very handy and offer a wide variety of choices.


The Hammer (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198514) (12F/6M/2R): The Rogue levels take a nibble out of your BAB, though I do think they are probably more worthwhile than 2 of monk. However, I dont think you gain enough utility out of them to warrant sacrificing Kensai III. I wonder if this build would be better as 12F/7R/1M?


I suppose I should have said from the start what my goal is, and that is maximizing Damage and Attack Speed. Also looking for good Tactics DC's. I'm not worried about versatility (other than respectable AC and Saves).

[Riggs]

I would guess that the unarmed speed bonus for monks starts lower and goes up with level/bab - as everyone else goes up in their attack speed with bab as well slightly. At some point this was mentioned by a dev when people were discussing the speed of 4th and 5th attack and bab etc.

While not scientific, I seem to notice that my monk gets faster with leveling up.

Greater wind stance and at level 20 he would attack very quicky compared to any of my other characters, but with only 2 levels it is not really noticable - so I wouldnt plan a build around a 10-12% speed bonus with only 2 levels of monk.

At one point before I tr'ed - after I got my Tod holy burst ring, and spamming lightning ki strikes - I was able to pull agro off a barb who was tanking Horoth, and not a bard barb either(maybe they were not in frenzy mode I think but still).

So long and short of it - if your goal is to make a multiclass, go for it. If your goal is to attack faster than anyone else - pure monk greater wind stance and Tod rings. You might not get the massive crits of a raging barb - but you will be hitting far faster than anything else in the game.