ROG/Assassin and traps

[Bacab]

First off let me say, I am mainly a FVS and BRD and I get annoyed when people want me to heal bot on my FVS or...attempt to healbot on my BRD that has ROG and FTR lvls (warchanter/axesinger) BRD.

That being said...

I know ROG can be an excellent DD and can lead in kills and etc. But is it expected for a lvl 20 pure ROG to be unable to do traps?

Here is what happened. Was doing the Drow Monastery on normal. And the ROG said this over voice chat : "I am a drow assasin, I have a search of 20 and thats it; I am not specced for traps". Was he saying he had 20 ranks in search? Was he saying he had a 20 search with gear included? Also are the traps in that quest really rough? My bard/rog/ftr can get elite traps in Gianthold (not counting the infamous Cabal trap). So about halfway through the quest a 18WIZ/2ROG shows up and neutralizes all of the traps.

I don't expect or generally like a trapmonkey. I like the DPS-style ROGs...but should'nt you be able to nail traps on normal? I understand not using enhancement points on search and DD and open lock. But should you not try to keep those 3 skills capped or near capped?

I am not trying to paint ROG into a corner as a trapmonkey only...but please be able to do some traps. PLease have the +search items and the +DD and +Open Lock items for those needed times.

Or am I being silly?

~Bacab

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I'm the first person that would argue rogues are DPS, not trapmonkies, and that anyone that builds a mechanic is missing the point of rogues. But...

Considering a 1rog/19xxx can get all the traps, there is no excuse for a pure rogue not to. It's not hard to get in those 23 ranks and carry an item. That guy would make my do not group list.

[Beld]

should be no reason not to be able to hit traps at level on normal...I have a Halfling Assassin, he struggles with Elite a level or two above but can typically get all traps on level normal.

But, to each his own, on a related topic to your OP tho, my 9 wiz/2 rogue is better at traps than my pure assassin due to the synergy with INT.

[Timjc86]

There's no reason for a pure rogue to not be able to easily disable traps in level appropriate content (especially if said rogue is a properly built assassin with at least a moderate investment in intelligence). Rogues simply get too many skill points to not take search and disable device - there's nothing else of value to spend those points on.

Now if a player wants to build a rogue that can't do traps for whatever reason, that's fine. But the player should let groups know ASAP, or risk a spot on blacklists.

[Wieland]

There's absolutely no reason why a rogue (and a pure rogue at that), wouldn't be able to get all traps in quests of his level on normal!

This whole thing sounds weird, maybe the rogue in question did have 20 ranks in the skill, but thought that when people talked about trap DCs they meant you had to have that many actual skill ranks, not the modified value with items/buffs/picks/etc added?

That's the only logical way I can explain this - that the player thought that his character was inadequately built for the traps and thus didn't even try.

[unbongwah]

Even with INT 8 a pure rogue still gets 7 skill points per level. If he wasn't spending one of them on Disable, what the heck did he buy?

"Bluff...Heal...Repair...Swim...Listen...Search...I ntimidate - well, looks like I'm good to go!"

[Angar]

Not to mention that an assassin that skips the attribute that affects his ability to assassinate (int) is like a sorc that skips spell resistance penetration, or a fighter who doesn't get weapons to break DR of various mobs. Sure you can make a rogue with Int as a dump stat, but... why? I would sacrifice str, wisdom, and cha on a rogue before I would sacrifice int.

Besides, even if the guy goes with 10 dex (why would you ever do that on a rogue?), he can still get 23 points into disable, and ANYONE can find a 15 skill item. That means that even the most gimped rogues should still have a 38 disable without GH, a dex item, dex enhancements (once again, why?), songs, or skill boosts. Realistically, the rogue will have at least 16 dex to start, 3 points from enhancements (5 of they are halfling, elf, or drow), and a +6 item (maybe +5 if they use spectral gloves for the hit bonus), giving at the very least a 24 dex, which adds 7 points to disable. Add GH for 4, maybe a voice of the master for 1 more, and even without a skill boost you are talking a 50 disable, more than enough to do ANY trap on normal through 20, and most traps on hard. Chances are, they will have at least 3 more points than that, and skill boosts to boot for 2-4 more, making even elite traps doable under almost any circumstance.

That being said, spot is going to be the hardest, and search is not far behind if the rogue is built poorly. Even with an item, GH, and having put all points into it, spots can be below 40, making it difficult in hard and elite high level quests. At about 40 I was spotting everything in elite monastary though, and I even did it with 34. However, search required over 45 on elite to find the boxes. All that meant was I had to use my boosts to find the boxes. I rolled a 2 on one disarm and blew it up because I forgot to switch to my disable goggles, so I might have been at about 42 on the disable when it happened, but still, that was ELITE, not normal, and that means a 50 disarm is a guaranteed no-fail..

I guess what I am getting at is that any rogue, even one splashed with fighter, should be able to do monastary traps. Like someone else asked, what would he put his skill points into if not basic trap, spot, search, and lock skills?

BTW, on that elite monastary, I rolled a 1 and then a 2 when I hit the ceiling and took 600 hp damage. Make sure you have a cleric with death pact on when you do that one.. that was with a 56 point trap save, which is what I had with no trap enhancements, a 34 dex, GH, no voice, and uncanny dodge activated.. something ANY rogue should be hitting.

[Wyrmnax]

I would sacrifice str, wisdom, and cha on a rogue before I would sacrifice int.

Ouch.

[Chai]

My level 17 assassin did every trap in there. The FailRogue® the OP is talking about likely didnt have +15 items in his backpack for each ability, and tried to make a case that they should be in the group if only for their awesome dps and kill count ability. Pick up a barbarian next time and have the FvS heal him back up to full with their free CLW capstone after he "finds" the traps.

20 ranks (will be 23 at level 20)
15 item
6 int mod for 22 int
2 drow (search, spot)
4 GH
1 VOM
2 I even have the little baby skill boost
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50 Not the uber trapsmith, but it does the job on normal and hard. I can usually hit >50% on elite.

The +5 tools add in to disable for a DC over 55 success on a roll of a 1.