Allow hierlings into raids

[Pyromaniac]

Time to allow some hirelings into raids...

[Visty]

why?
too many noobs in your groups?

hirelings wont perform better

[Hendrik]

I have to second the 'why'?

:confused:

Barely useful as is and to put them into a Raid situation, yikes!

I think they would be more harmful then useful and a drain on the party as a whole. Who is going to take time while in a Raid to stop what they are doing and instruct a Henchmen?

[ebit157]

For when the entire party wipes opening the raid chest in VON6.

[Pyromaniac]

Takes too long to fill some raids, and why not? Hirelings are pretty inexpensive. They'd be only marginally useful, but probably better than an empty spot.

[Creeper]

I won't say that hirelings should be allowed into raids, but i will say that they are beyond useful when used properly.

You don't need to "stop and instruct a henchmen" any more than you need to stop and click anything else on your hotbar, as that is what instructing your henchmen is comprised of—point and click healing.

Hirelings are often invaluable when used correctly.

[Hendrik]

Takes too long to fill some raids, and why not? Hirelings are pretty inexpensive. They'd be only marginally useful, but probably better than an empty spot.

Debatable.


;)


What are the 'some Raids' Pyro?

Abbot? ToD?

Sure the Henchmen is inexpensive but expensive to the members that need to keep him alive or rez him over and over. Is someone going to waste SP/resources to maintain the health of the Henchmen when they contribute little to nothing in a Raid situation?

Not to mention how woefully under-equipped they are for Raids.

[Creeper]

Sure the Henchmen is inexpensive but expensive to the members that need to keep him alive or rez him over and over. Is someone going to waste SP/resources to maintain the health of the Henchmen when they contribute little to nothing in a Raid situation?

That's a description of bad hireling control.

How valuable is that hireling when everyone is dead while it waits patiently and safely at the entrance, ready for your summons?

[Hendrik]

That's a description of bad hireling control.

How valuable is that hireling when everyone is dead while it waits patiently and safely at the entrance, ready for your summons?


In the proper hands a Henchmen is valuable, no doubt. I have doubt of their viability in Raids.

How valuable is that Henchmen casting Firewall and getting one/two-shotted in a Raid? The melee Henchmen with laughable gear and damage compared to what most L14/16's consider 'normal'?

Or are we just talking about only CLR Henchmen and having a pocket Healer? Do you want to enter a Raid with one of the CLRs is a bot?

[Creeper]

How valuable is that Henchmen casting Firewall and getting one/two-shotted in a Raid? The melee Henchmen with laughable gear and damage compared to what most L14/16's consider 'normal'?

Or are we just talking about only CLR Henchmen and having a pocket Healer? Do you want to enter a Raid with one of the CLRs is a bot?

Yeah, I am only talking about clerics. And I wouldn't have any problem entering a raid with a hireling as a pocket healer. I use them all the time in regular quests, even on my WF.

The cleric hirelings have much better AI than the other classes when put in defend mode.
You just have to keep them at a safe distance which is tricky but worth figuring out.

[Horrorscope]

I have no problem allowing them, if they work or not for you is a personal thing.

[Hendrik]

Yeah, I am only talking about clerics. And I wouldn't have any problem entering a raid with a hireling as a pocket healer. I use them all the time in regular quests, even on my WF.

The cleric hirelings have much better AI than the other classes when put in defend mode.
You just have to keep them at a safe distance which is tricky but worth figuring out.

The thought of myself, or 11 other Raid member having to 'rely' on a Henchmen CLR to stay alive gives me the willies!

:p

Put a Henchmen CLR in a vital healing position reeks of disaster to me in a Raid situation. They can't scroll Heal or wand whip (lol) - once they are out of SP, that's it - dead weight unless there is a Shrine around the corner. Maybe a handfull of DV's if you get the right CLR to give to the human CLR.

I have no doubt of the usefulness of a Henchmen in a Quest setting when controlled by someone that know what they are doing, like you do Creeper. I have doubt when controlled by someone that does not and moreso when 11 other 'lives' depend on it.

[Creeper]

The thought of myself, or 11 other Raid member having to 'rely' on a Henchmen CLR to stay alive gives me the willies!



True, but one alive cleric hireling sitting at the entrance is much more useful than one dead cleric player-character in a party wipe. It all depends on the situation. Also, cleric hirelings use cure wands now.

[vettkinn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh0pLanufhg

If they are allowed in raids I will be able to solo them :D

[phalaeo]

I am only in support of this if Turbine allows us to look up our Hirelings on MyDDO for Fort and HP. I also want to be able to ask them how many completions they have on this toon and what weapons they have to bypass boss DR.

I mean, really- I was doing an Elite Amrath quest just last week and the Hireling died every two seconds. No way I'm letting *that* noob into my Shroud. I put him on my blacklist and made sure to tell everyone in guild not to group with this particular hireling.

PM me if you want the name.

[Hendrik]

True, but one alive cleric hireling sitting at the entrance is much more useful than one dead cleric player-character in a party wipe. It all depends on the situation. Also, cleric hirelings use cure wands now.


It does all depend on the situation, very true.

:cool:

[Hendrik]

i Am Only In Support Of This If Turbine Allows Us To Look Up Our Hirelings On Myddo For Fort And Hp. I Also Want To Be Able To Ask Them How Many Completions They Have On This Toon And What Weapons They Have To Bypass Boss Dr.

I Mean, Really- I Was Doing An Elite Amrath Quest Just Last Week And The Hireling Died Every Two Seconds. No Way I'm Letting *that* Noob Into My Shroud. I Put Him On My Blacklist And Made Sure To Tell Everyone In Guild Not To Group With This Particular Hireling.

Pm Me If You Want The Name.

:d

+

[ZeroTakenaka]

*ding*

Party: ZeroTakenaka has left the party.

[IgorUnchained]

I am only in support of this if Turbine allows us to look up our Hirelings on MyDDO for Fort and HP. I also want to be able to ask them how many completions they have on this toon and what weapons they have to bypass boss DR.

I mean, really- I was doing an Elite Amrath quest just last week and the Hireling died every two seconds. No way I'm letting *that* noob into my Shroud. I put him on my blacklist and made sure to tell everyone in guild not to group with this particular hireling.

PM me if you want the name.

PM Sent

Im so tired of this kind of thing. I havent grabbed a hireling without checking him out on MyDDO in a long time. If he is geared out, what does he have to hide? I dont want him piking the quest while I have him sitting at the entrance the whole time.

Seriously though, I solo with hirelings all the time. If heals, DVs, and raise/res doesnt appeal to you, I can see why you would prefer an empty spot. Noone is suggesting that you bring a barbarian hireling to throw down with the Pit Fiend. Just take the time to check them out on MyDDO and if they pass the test, leave the cleric hireling in a safe spot to be summoned to you to be used when you need it.

A caster to heal WF or to throw a firewall or two could work for certain raids also, in my opinion.

[Uska]

No thanks dotn like them and wish they didnt exist

[Falco_Easts]

Hmm, park your pocket cleric outside the danger zone (near door at Reaver, on the other side of the gate in VON etc...) only to call them if there is a party wipe.

Smells like cheese to me.

[Drekisen]

UHMMMM...no...Raids are supposed to be exclusive....get over it and move on.

[Bunker]

/signed simply for entertainment value

How would a hireling handle the Forge? Oops, bye bye pillars.

Hirelings on the bridges of the Plane of Night?

DQ Hireling.......hehehehe

Oooo, oooo. Abbot hireling when everyone yells inferno. :)

I'm not even going start with the hireling for ToD. Might be the firs hireling to be allowed in House D due to banishment.

And of course, the hireling that handles the healing in part 4 of the shroud. I can see it now, "Hey, hireling dude, watch those blades." "Hey, why is the hireling standing in the blades?" DING!

Of course I'm calling off all the comedic moments that might happen with a hireling ina few raids. Could be funny. Not sure if it is better then an actual player. I do see Pyro's POV, figuring hey, if he is running a raid wit 10, sure would be nice to have 2 more barbs swinging at Harry since he is mass healing anyways.

Think of it this way. It will take some of the pressure off the MYDDO fans. Now players will 2 reasons they get denied from joining raid parties. So myddo doesn't get all the haters. It will be shared with the hirelings.:D

[phalaeo]

<Rant ON!!!!!>

You guys do realize that some of these hirelings could have worked their way up to cap just running Casual, having never set foot in an Elite difficulty quest?

I mean- I was running Crucible the other night in a PUG, right? No problem shortmanning it usually and I wanted to flag an alt for Reavers. We get in the quest and *ding*- some unguilded hireling I've never heard of just appears out of nowhere.

I decided to give the guy a chance, we buffed, and didn't even make the first turn in the maze when I got that sinking feeling in my gut that this guy was really going to slow us down. I don't know whether the guy decided to take the opportunity to sort his inventory, or what. We tried a few times to give him directions over voice, and he didn't even acknowledge. He just stood there. It's fine not to have voice, but for ****'s sake at least have speakers or a headset so you can hear directives.

Somebody must have finally sent him a tell or he went AFK or something, cause right before fights, he would just park himself and then "magically appear" after we did all the work. Unbelievable.

I seriously think that this guy must have been powerlevelled or really just didn't understand SP management, either. He'd toss some heals (when he wasn't on the phone/using the john/brushing his poodle) and then I'd notice his blue bar shoot right back up to full! If he needs to chain chug mnemonics on a Normal Crucible, how's he going to perform raid healing?

Anyways, I highly doubt that any of them will ever see this. I've never even seen a Hireling post on the forums.... have you guys? I mean, there's a whole topic forum just for them, but do they even take the time to go in and read up on quests and ask questions?

At least none of the hirelings have asked me to share a quest (yet).
But if they ever do.....
IT'S ON, M-EFFERS!!!!

[FlimsyFirewood]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

[DoctorWhofan]

I am only in support of this if Turbine allows us to look up our Hirelings on MyDDO for Fort and HP. I also want to be able to ask them how many completions they have on this toon and what weapons they have to bypass boss DR.

I mean, really- I was doing an Elite Amrath quest just last week and the Hireling died every two seconds. No way I'm letting *that* noob into my Shroud. I put him on my blacklist and made sure to tell everyone in guild not to group with this particular hireling.

PM me if you want the name.

+1 rep! heehee!

[DoctorWhofan]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

thank you

[Cyr]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

Too bad the same choice was not made for allowing hirelings in dungeons or adventure zones. Would have saved lots of development time on a rather mediocre feature.

[Zuldar]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

Not even a raid where we have to defeat some disgruntled underpaid hirelings?

[DagazUlf]

not Going To Happen.

This Is A Design Decision By The Dev Team, Taken Months Ago.

**applause**

[Gratch]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

Claps. Don't need more lag causers in our raids.

Also don't want to end up in the PUG that thinks hirelings can heal a shroud or hound. I'd have no one to insult when we fail.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Bah, pony up and dual box.

[Hendrik]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

Thank you FF.

Any hints on more awesome content from you????


:D

[Greydeath]

Not going to happen.

This is a design decision by the dev team, taken months ago.

OK... how about the reasons behind that decision? :confused:

[FlimsyFirewood]

Freedom!

-NG.

[Hendrik]

Freedom!

-NG.

You can have your freedom, but all your lootz belong to me!!!!

:D

[DrakmireTS]

I'm gonna have to throw in with the "why not?" crowd here. They're allowed in everything except raids, but why is that?

If it weren't for hirelings, I'm pretty sure my girlfriend and I wouldn't have moved from F2P to P2P and we'd have been done with the game a long time ago. Being able to find a "group" when we were just starting out, no matter the time of day, was a liberating experience. Gone were the days of waiting in LFM for an hour or (then) ineffectually trying to duo a dungeon, chewing through massive amounts of consumables to stay alive.

While we don't use them very often anymore, we do still whip them out in epics when we want to save on heal scrolls, and I would kill to be able to use them in Titan. No one runs Titan on our server (publicly) and so with both of us wanting to do it, we can get through everything except the red puzzle because, of course, you need 3 people, which could easily be solved by letting hirelings into raids.

I doubt anyone is honestly trying to defend the position of letting them in to solo cleric Shroud 4/5 or ToD, but when your reaver's at 11/12 with no healers at all, having someone call out Wyoh would get things move along in a pinch.

[Angar]

Hirelings are far from worthless, and actually allow small groups of friends to play the game without having to guild themselves to get past level 5. Not everyone has intimate knowledge of every quest and only runs them for quick xp, not everyone wants to be in a guild, and not everyone wants to troll the LFMs looking for a group that can do the quest they want.

Before I decided to join a guild and take the "next step" in the game (ie raids, crafting, etc), I rolled with a group of 4 people who were not always around when I wanted to play. Many many times we had 2 or 3 of us, and almost never did we have a healer, and we had no desire to PUG a couple extras. I have used all the hirelings and the only thing I wish we had access to was a rogue.

The benefit was we were able to enjoy the quests we had never done, taking our time to discover things rather than zerging through or being guided by someone on their 10th toon. This is something we may not have had the luxury of doing if we filled those extra spots with PUGgers.

The downside was fighting the questionable AI, and sometimes coping with the hireling deciding to leave the group mid quest (still happens too often).

Yes, I can run most quests solo or duo now that I know most of them too well, and my toons are geared up well enough to be able to run either solo or with a group sans healer (or rogue), but every so often I will grab a pocket cleric to keep my fighter or rogue healed up, simply because it costs way less than all the pots or scrolls.

I don't see the viability of a hireling in a raid, and it's a moot point now anyway since the devs obviously have no intention of changing it, but to say that hirelings are bad for the game, worthless, or shouldnt have been added is just wrong. Not everyone has a regular well balanced group of friends to play with, and that is what hirelings are for - small groups of people who just need a cleric or caster or tank to help out without all the issues of getting an unfamiliar player in the group.

[tihocan]

Personally I'd like Hirelings to be allowed in *some* raids. Namely, VON5 (only pt. 5) and Tempest Spine. The reason is that both have some stat requirements that can occasionally be difficult to fulfill, especially if you want to short-man.
Having Hirelings in Twilight Forge (pt 1) would be neat too, but they'd need to be able to interact with the stones for crystals, which I doubt is going to be possible easily.

[BladedThesis]

They cant be used cuz it would make some raids just too easy to solo, or even easier.

[Angelus_dead]

Having Hirelings in Twilight Forge (pt 1) would be neat too, but they'd need to be able to interact with the stones for crystals
Actually hirelings would work just fine without taking crystals. The players would simply tell them not to walk down those hallways, and to meet you on the other side.

[Ghoste]

why?
too many noobs in your groups?

hirelings wont perform better
You havent been in some of the pugs i've been in...

[Ghoste]

Actually hirelings would work just fine without taking crystals. The players would simply tell them not to walk down those hallways, and to meet you on the other side.
This would also allow you to do the green puzzle without ddoor and the red puzzle with only yourself and a hireling.

[jkm]

Too bad the same choice was not made for allowing hirelings in dungeons or adventure zones. Would have saved lots of development time on a rather mediocre feature.

bah, mr hamsterherder saves me a ton of plat on haste pots

[jkm]

This would also allow you to do the green puzzle without ddoor and the red puzzle with only yourself and a hireling.

which, given the number of people who actually want to do the titan, might be a good thing ;)

[Gratch]

I just had a hireling firewall and fball a fire elemental boss in Lair of Summoning. The same azzhat boss fire elemental that sends out dispel magic on a 5s tick.

I wish all caster hirelings had a repair button so I could keep them in passive mode and click repair spell on them... instead of their normal: "Oh, you're hurt... i'm gonna heal the boss with tons of fire magic".

NO HIRELINGS IN RAIDS TYVM.