INTELLIGENCE: A fix for DDOs disfigured stat.

[villainsimple]

As many of you know Intelligence does not benefit skill points retroactively. If, for example, you're a Rogue who gets a +2 tome to intelligence at level 17 you don't suddenly have a bonus +17 skill points.

This is a holdover from Pen and Paper when the expectation wasn't that you would max out all of your skills all of the time, but that you'd focus on a few that were really important to your class and distribute the other points to more suit your character. A barbarian rarely needs a maximum of the ride skill, but may pick up a few points here and there to represent their horsemanship.

However, in DDO the expectation is that you will have maximums in your skill or your skill will largely be ineffective. To this end "byproduct" skill points are really wasted. A few points in haggle might be handy, but on the whole, not really. Consequently, I suggest that increases in intelligence provide retroactive skill points.

[Bracosius]

Lesser reincarnate. Voila, retroactive skill points.

[rest]

I wish you'd clutter up the Suggestion forum with your ranting "fix" threads rather than General DDO.

[Robi3.0]

I don't see how the benefit of this out ways the cost. Turbine just reworked how Tomes functioned, and I would have to assume that they function exactly how Turbine want them to.

The min-levels were put there for a reason. If you eat a +2 tome at level two and want retroactive skill points simply lesser reincarnate. At the very least that will give you 13 retroactive skill points.

I don't see why this is an issues really. Much like PnP pick the skills you want for your character and stick with them. I can't really think of a skill that is a absolutely must have maxed on every character no matter what.

[Gornin]

:rolleyes:/sigh

[Lorz]

I wish you'd clutter up the Suggestion forum with your ranting "fix" threads rather than General DDO.

+1 rep for you sir.

-1 rep for OP who seems to think this is cute and effective..instead it makes him look childish and a loon.

[KKDragonLord]

Lol, way to go Villain.

As if there wasn't a reason why the Devs decided to add a level limit to tomes in the first place.

Your posts are surprisingly as entertaining as watching a car crash, its not pretty but you just can't stop looking at it =p

[DoctorWhofan]

OH boy...

[Memnir]

No.

[Mudcnd]

Wow more threads from you??

Is there anything you like about this game?

[stopdying]

Don't worry Vil. you'll understand all this one day, maybe when you're older.

[Memnir]

Is there anything you like about this game?Complaining about it not being done his way?
He seems to like that a lot.

[Missing_Minds]

Wow more threads from you??

Is there anything you like about this game?

Yes. He/She is free to complain as much as He/She wants to. As of such, we are free to ignore, or to neg rep them till they can't post any more. The problem with such is it would only delay the posts as he/she never really posts stuff that break forum guidelines. He/She only posts stuff that really irritate everyone else.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The OP is spamming stupid suggestions not in the suggestions thread but in general. I'll assume for a moment he isn't stupid, that means he's trolling.

[DoctorWhofan]

I shall predictthe next threads:

The devils are overpowered in Amarth.

Haste should be removed from the game: It's a crutch!

Wizards are underpowered.

Arcane Archer is over powered.

I ask as everyone has asked: do you like ANYTHING in the game? I have figured out that you play a Wizzy, and don't carry haste or firewall and tired of dying all the time. Can't you just look at the classes another way? YOu seem to want an easy button or a impossible button. You will never be happy, so again, do you like ANYTHING?

[Gnorbert]

I was hoping to find a "we need another class that relies primarily in Int" thread here. Because I could get behind that idea.

This current idea though? nope.

[Woody00]

I shall predictthe next threads:

The devils are overpowered in Amarth.

Haste should be removed from the game: It's a crutch!

Wizards are underpowered.

Arcane Archer is over powered.

I ask as everyone has asked: do you like ANYTHING in the game? I have figured out that you play a Wizzy, and don't carry haste or firewall and tired of dying all the time. Can't you just look at the classes another way? YOu seem to want an easy button or a impossible button. You will never be happy, so again, do you like ANYTHING?

I am waiting for the " Remove Blade Barriers: Healers should not have a higher kill count than me!" thread

[gavagai]

This isn't a good idea.

But there are many good PnP-inspired ways to make INT more attractive to more builds. We already have Insightful Strike.

Insightful Strike: Precision INT damage to attacks with finesseable weapons
Insightful Dodge: a certain amount of INT bonus to AC
and so on.

These feats should be targetted to benefit those MAD classes (rogues, Defenders, swashbuckler and battlecaster types) with enough INT to make them somewhat more competitive with STR/CON min/maxers. They should have decent prerequisites to prevent every INT-pumped Wizard becoming a cyclone of destruction:

High BAB requirements (need to be combat experienced to use your intellect to your advantage)
Dodge for Insightful Dodge (Benefitting MAD builds and preventing Dex-dumping)
Weapon Finesse for Insightful Strike (similar rationale)

[villainsimple]

You will never be happy, so again, do you like ANYTHING?

Happy? Maybe. Content? No. Though to answer your question, yes.

[KKDragonLord]

This isn't a good idea.

But there are many good PnP-inspired ways to make INT more attractive to more builds. We already have Insightful Strike.

Insightful Strike: Precision INT damage to attacks with finesseable weapons
Insightful Dodge: a certain amount of INT bonus to AC
and so on.

These feats should be targetted to benefit those MAD classes (rogues, Defenders, swashbuckler and battlecaster types) with enough INT to make them competitive with STR/CON min/maxers. They should have decent prerequisites to prevent every INT-pumped Wizard into a cyclone of destruction:

High BAB requirements (need to be combat experienced to use your intellect to your advantage)
Dodge for Insightful Dodge (Benefitting MAD builds and preventing Dex-dumping)
Weapon Finesse for Insightful Strike (similar rationale)

Interesting suggestions, i wonder if these should be so easy to accquire though, in PnP these would be restricted to a few classes and prestige classes such as swashbuckler, duelists, bladesingers etc...

If only making PrEs were a more common thing, id say they should make those a part of Multiclass specific PrEs for certain class combinations.

[DoctorWhofan]

I am waiting for the " Remove Blade Barriers: Healers should not have a higher kill count than me!" thread

OMG!! Purple Lightning works on EVERYTHING! NERF NERF!!!

[Ranmaru2]

would sound like a decent suggestion, except that the coding for such a suggestion is probably a pain in the ass and a half, or impossible. It's kinda hard not to max out skills in this game considering most of them are garbage.

[DoctorWhofan]

The Relationship of Arcane and Divine Instinta kill spells on my in game morale and overall feeling of uberness as indicated by kill count.

An Essy on E-Peen Jelously

By VillianSimple (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC75aU47GRk)

I ran out of hugs for today. +1 rep another day!

[villainsimple]

I ran out of hugs for today. +1 rep another day!

God, you're a troll.

[KKDragonLord]

God, you're a troll.

Lol, sig worthy...

"Pot..."

[Gornin]

God, you're a troll.

My ribs hurt!!!

[GeneralDiomedes]

This suggestion is devoid of logic.

[Drfirewater79]

skills in DDO vs PnP are vastly messed up and prolly could use a once over so they actually make some sort of sense.

even rouge skills in DDO are drastic ... lvl 20 in pnp might never see a disable device 70 check even when doing epic stuff ... but epic DDO is 85 search? how would you ever get 85 in PnP ? and the cap on skills per level is suppost to force the dc's to stay in check with players abilities ... not require them to take prestige classes to even stand a chance at getting the dc's or forcing min maxing so they can be effective.

truth is DDO follows the house rules of Turbine ... turbine doesnt want you to succeed cause if you do then you become board and stop playing and possibly stop paying ... after all this is a business.

they did mention in the last ask the devs segment (ddocast eps 158 found at www.ddocast.com) that they plan to work on skills in the future to make them more useful but i almost think thats a bad idea ... we have limited skills as is so if you make more skills needed (what happens when you increase usefulness is you start the "oh you dont have that skill your gimped" BS).

instead they should lower (only slightly 2-5 points) needed dc's to even out the playing feild .. this makes goals like self healing through umd and trap smithing and balance and other such skills more useful to general populace.

if people didnt need to min max skills to make them useful then they could afford to put a couple points into haggle or heal or yada yada for the sake of minor bonus to self or party ... the useless skills are useless cause of the need to max out other skills

since DDO forum community can never see eye to eye though this obvious fix will never happen

the elitests will complain that now everyone can do things they min max'd for and multiclassed for ... and if they dont the other side complains about having to min max or multiclass and miss out on capstones and what not to reach the same end.

and since its easier not to fix something then to fix it ... things stay the same .....

sad but true

[Matuse]

I have a better idea. Whenever you put on a +int item, you get the skillpoints of your new higher int, also retroactively. So any time a level 20 character puts on a +6 skill item, they have to assign 60 points before they can do anything else.

That would make the game totally awesome.

[MarcusCole]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to DoctorWhofan again" :(

[BurnerD]

Lol, way to go Villain.

As if there wasn't a reason why the Devs decided to add a level limit to tomes in the first place.

Your posts are surprisingly as entertaining as watching a car crash, its not pretty but you just can't stop looking at it =p

car wreck or....
http://i69.servimg.com/u/f69/13/29/32/54/train_10.jpg

[Stormslinger]

+1 for you


Wow more threads from you??

Is there anything you like about this game?

[Captain_Wizbang]

I've got an even better idea!

REROLL OP!

[jcTharin]

wow, three red boxes. I'm impressed. are you trying to go for a record or something? i would help you on that record but unfortunately i don't have enough reputation to give rep points yet.

question. how much rep do i need before i can give rep?


I was hoping to find a "we need another class that relies primarily in Int" thread here. Because I could get behind that idea.

This current idea though? nope.

i could to

[Hendrik]

Lol, sig worthy...

"Pot..."

Thinking the same thing!

[Angar]

OK, so lets look at the skills that are so "unimportant unless maxed"

Jump: clerics with 10 str and heavy armor that end up with a -5 jump shouldn't put points to it? Sorry, life in this game is easier when you can jump more than a couple inches. My wiz, who has a LOT of skill points extra, has a 10 jump, and it is WAY easier to navigate than my sorc with -1 jump.. yes, a jump spell cast helps, but there is a difference from 30 to 40.

Tumble: A couple points goes a long way toward reducing falling damage.

Bluff: Rogue skill only, but doesn't need to be max'd to be effective. A 15 base bluff plus an item is enough to pull a single mob from a group at almost any level. Saves you 10k gold by just having 3 in this skill when you run Delaras pt 4.. since that quest is super high xp, that can save you 100k gold easy.

Heal: Overlooked as useful, and certainly one of the last skills to use, but even 5 or 10 points here can really help with a non-healer type at shrines. At worst, it saves 1 or 2 cure serious pots per rest when running without a healer.

Repair: See Heal

Haggle: Every point here makes you richer.

UMD: Any toon can reach 16 or 20, enough to use many RR items.

Sorry, skill points aren't worthless, even on a Wiz where you can put points to Concentrate and Repair, but should have 7-10 per level to dump in..

Plus, Int is the modifier for assassinate, best rogue skill in the game, imo.

[DoctorWhofan]

God, you're a troll.

I need that in my sig!!

[Visty]

wow, three red boxes. I'm impressed. are you trying to go for a record or something? i would help you on that record but unfortunately i don't have enough reputation to give rep points yet.
he has a long way to go though, someone already has 7 or 8 red boxes


question. how much rep do i need before i can give rep?
1500

[Woody00]

he has a long way to go though, someone already has 7 or 8 red boxes

1500

Yes but they are no longer with us(under the same name anyway). A search for their name comes up invalid.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

God, you're a troll.

Are you talking to yourself again?

[Aspenor]

http://www.pbsmiles.org/pbsmiles/upload/smilies/this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

[Woody00]

RANDOM PIC!!!!!!

http://www.adiumxtras.com/images/pictures/chuck_norris_random_fact_generator_6_3957_2224_ima ge_2578.jpg

[lutherl]

Lesser reincarnate. Voila, retroactive skill points.

Wait, really?

Well that's good news and bad, which of course makes me happy and sad.

I've two characters at 7 that I've been letting simmer for a bit while I decide if they're worth keeping and investing some super +2s on.

The good news is...this is one less concern.

The bad news is...2 supremes + 2 LR's...how many points is that again?

[gavagai]

Wait, really?

Well that's good news and bad, which of course makes me happy and sad.

I've two characters at 7 that I've been letting simmer for a bit while I decide if they're worth keeping and investing some super +2s on.

The good news is...this is one less concern.

The bad news is...2 supremes + 2 LR's...how many points is that again?

Not really, as far as I know.

When you LR or GR with a +2 tome already eaten, you get the benefit of a +1 tome applied for levels 1-6, and then it automatically applies the next +1 at level 7. So you aren't getting retroactive points for levels 1-6 unless you started with an odd INT score.

Unless something changed between Lammania and live...

[Ninetoes]

Wait, really?

Well that's good news and bad, which of course makes me happy and sad.

I've two characters at 7 that I've been letting simmer for a bit while I decide if they're worth keeping and investing some super +2s on.

The good news is...this is one less concern.

The bad news is...2 supremes + 2 LR's...how many points is that again?

Not sure, but I'm pretty sure you can by an in-game calculator for that. Takes up one backpack slot, calculates how many TP's you should spend to fix your character. 521 TP's, on sale this weekend!
;)

[Arkat]

God, you're a troll.

Hi Welcome

[Woody00]

I ran out of hugs for today. +1 rep another day!

Thats ok. I got plenty to go around. :)

/hug

[Ranmaru2]

RANDOM PIC!!!!!!

http://www.adiumxtras.com/images/pictures/chuck_norris_random_fact_generator_6_3957_2224_ima ge_2578.jpg

I'll take your Random Pic and raise you:

http://www.deviantart.com/download/126279505/Nostalgia_Critic__CHUCK_NORRIS_by_long_live_the_st upid.jpg

[vVAnjilaVv]

If I read some memory expanding book which allowed me the capacity to learn a new skill, I would only be proficient in that skill from that point onwards.

The fact that u can reincarnate and get skill points u otherwise would not have normally is already a bonus IMO.

[Woody00]

I'll take your Random Pic and raise you:

http://www.deviantart.com/download/126279505/Nostalgia_Critic__CHUCK_NORRIS_by_long_live_the_st upid.jpg

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/26205/original/chuck-norris.jpg

Call

[Gremmlynn]

If I read some memory expanding book which allowed me the capacity to learn a new skill, I would only be proficient in that skill from that point onwards.

The fact that u can reincarnate and get skill points u otherwise would not have normally is already a bonus IMO.Well the same argument could be used for raising con not adding hp retroactively, so I can sort of see the OPs point. I does seem a bit inconsistent.

Do int/wis/chr add SPs retroactively?

[Kyrn]

Well the same argument could be used for raising con not adding hp retroactively, so I can sort of see the OPs point. I does seem a bit inconsistent.

Do int/wis/chr add SPs retroactively?

There is a difference. HP and SP counts final bonuses, not base bonus. So equipping a +con or +int/cha/wis item would increase and decrease your hp and sp respectively, while equipping a +int item doesn't let you learn more skills at levelup.

[Woody00]

It sounds nice but I doubt it will ever be implemented. The main reason is the code and time involved with that process. And not just the devs time but the players as well. Everytime you put your goggles on you have to allocate points. Everytime you take them off you lose the points. Everytime you switch from you int+6 goggles to your int +2 search +13 you have to lose then allocate points. Imiagine having to allocate 20+ skill points everytime you take your Blindness Ward goggles off and put your +Int goggles on. And I would not begin to imagine how buggy this would be if ever implemented.

So for right now I say "NO"

[Dark_Helmet]

God, you're a troll.


http://www.pbsmiles.org/pbsmiles/upload/smilies/this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_K9DDwiaaEu0/Scnl3xlAqrI/AAAAAAAAARs/vOdkeAqyYmw/s320/pot+meet+kettle.jpg

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Well the same argument could be used for raising con not adding hp retroactively, so I can sort of see the OPs point. I does seem a bit inconsistent.

Do int/wis/chr add SPs retroactively?

Nope, if you are healthier now you are healthier now. It impact you NOW. Working out today gives me benefits today. That time I spend on a treadmill now can bring me to the exact same place in real life as if I had been working out for 20 years. If they could somehow increase my intelligence today it would put new knowledge in my head, only help me learn from now on.

[Ranmaru2]

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/26205/original/chuck-norris.jpg

Call

Riposte: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcxthg885ZY

[Woody00]

Riposte: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcxthg885ZY

Counter. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deHM-bhp9pA)


BTW If you have'nt seen these vids they are great little time killers

[lutherl]

Not really, as far as I know.

When you LR or GR with a +2 tome already eaten, you get the benefit of a +1 tome applied for levels 1-6, and then it automatically applies the next +1 at level 7. So you aren't getting retroactive points for levels 1-6 unless you started with an odd INT score.

Unless something changed between Lammania and live...

Well that makes sense.

[Gremmlynn]

Nope, if you are healthier now you are healthier now. It impact you NOW. Working out today gives me benefits today. That time I spend on a treadmill now can bring me to the exact same place in real life as if I had been working out for 20 years. If they could somehow increase my intelligence today it would put new knowledge in my head, only help me learn from now on.If you were malnourished as a child, or suffered from various diseases in your past. Being healthier today wont let you make up for stunted growth or say scarred lung tissue. So, while working out may help, it may not completely erase the past for this either.

Personally, find the game mechanics PITA to be a better reason for the inconsistency.

[Ranmaru2]

Counter. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deHM-bhp9pA)


BTW If you have'nt seen these vids they are great little time killers

Going all in: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/8421-sidekicks

This is the penultimate Chuck Norris BJ

[Brahmina]

God, you're a troll.

So you think God is a troll. No wonder you are who you are and why everyone jumps on your case.

Of course I'm kidding--I think.

[KillEveryone]

Villainsimple responding to a quote from DoctorWhoFan...

God, you're a troll.


Using GeneralDiomedes quote to the op about this thread...

This suggestion is devoid of logic.

[Woody00]

Going all in: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/8421-sidekicks

This is the penultimate Chuck Norris BJ


You win. +1 :D

[Ranmaru2]

You win. +1 :D

'Twas a well played match, you had me going for a second to find the perfect counter :p

[DoctorWhofan]

So you think God is a troll. No wonder you are who you are and why everyone jumps on your case.

Of course I'm kidding--I think.

It's goddess, but you are forgiven. :p

[Daggaz]

Funny how he picks haggle as an example, which is I believe, the one and only skill which isnt win or lose and having a few points does push you up a meaningful scale. I can see the difference between haggle +5 and haggle +10 on my low charisma dwarf with no points in it, and I use the better items whenever I can get ahold ofthe next tier.

/Squelched. And you are my first one, thanks man! =D