Bard thoughts...

[OTSmithers]

Level 10 spellsinger.

Overall I am happy enough with my build. Following the advice on this forum I think it is about as effective as can be expected.

None the less, most of the time I feel like I am mostly along for the ride. I don't heal as well as a cleric as I don't have mass cures, heal, or raise dead; my melee is, to put it bluntly, a joke; and my signature ability -- fascinate -- is so situational as to be essentially worthless. Turbine could replace it with "speed knitting" and it would be just as useful. As for CC in general, my drow charisma is maxed and I have solid charisma and enchantment items, but I have nothing -- songs or spells -- that effects undead, so there was no point to that either as undead make up pretty much everything monster wise that I see.

Is there hope? Does it get better? I get groups because my guild is nice enough to let me tag along, but it's clear they would rather me play one of my other (useful) toons, and I can't really blame them.

[Shishizaru]

Note: Warchanter is usually the "preferred" PrE for Bards, but the following applies regardless:

Your signature ability isn't fascinate, it's songs in general. If you guild/party does not see the benefits of Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, Spellsong Trance, or the occasional Inspire Competence/Fascinate, then the problem lies on their end, not yours.

A bard is usually less "specialized" then the other classes. They get to do a lot of stuff, but (usually) none of it as well as other classes. Your greatest advantage is versatility.

You can help the cleric heal, especially out of battle. You can save casters SP by throwing out the occasional Spellsong. You can save the arcane's some SP for offensive spells by casting Blur, Haste, Heroism, Good Hope, etc in their stead. And worst comes to worst, you can throw down some of the best CC in the game.

So in short: A good bard is never just "along for the ride." Bards excel at making OTHER classes shine. Your signature ability is, in essence, the ability to make everyone better at what they do. Good players will acknowledge and appreciate that ability. But if you really want to be on the top of the kill count, maybe bard isn't quite for you.

[Woody00]

Bards are pretty much the swiss army knife of DDO. In a pinch we can do just about anything but nothing as good as the classes built for that role. The trick is to try to convince people that just think bards are squishy wannbe caster types that you are a great assest to the party. Once you know what your bard can really do and when to switch roles in the party as the sitution presents itself you'll see why every party should have one. Not every build can go from party buffer-->perma haster--->mob beater--->pinch healer---> Crowd Control guru at the drop of a hat.

[BoBoDaClown]

Level 10 spellsinger.

Overall I am happy enough with my build. Following the advice on this forum I think it is about as effective as can be expected.

None the less, most of the time I feel like I am mostly along for the ride. I don't heal as well as a cleric as I don't have mass cures, heal, or raise dead; my melee is, to put it bluntly, a joke; and my signature ability -- fascinate -- is so situational as to be essentially worthless. Turbine could replace it with "speed knitting" and it would be just as useful. As for CC in general, my drow charisma is maxed and I have solid charisma and enchantment items, but I have nothing -- songs or spells -- that effects undead, so there was no point to that either as undead make up pretty much everything monster wise that I see.

Is there hope? Does it get better? I get groups because my guild is nice enough to let me tag along, but it's clear they would rather me play one of my other (useful) toons, and I can't really blame them.

You should start seeing more variety than undead soon - so yay for CC - pick up the spell pen feats and enhancements and you should rock.

Grab a disruptor for undead heavy quests.

[Anderei]

None the less, most of the time I feel like I am mostly along for the ride. I don't heal as well as a cleric as I don't have mass cures, heal, or raise dead;

Eventually you will get mass light and moderate, and you can throw heal and raise dead scrolls! Outside of raids you can play a parties main healer. Yes you could some less spell points than a cleric, but on the other hand you've reasonable buffs which a cleric hasn't, and you got a skyrocket UMD, the no. 1 skill in DDO.



my melee is, to put it bluntly, a joke; and my signature ability -- fascinate -- is so situational as to be essentially worthless. Turbine could replace it with "speed knitting" and it would be just as useful. As for CC in general, my drow charisma is maxed and I have solid charisma and enchantment items, but I have nothing -- songs or spells -- that effects undead, so there was no point to that either as undead make up pretty much everything monster wise that I see.

On my spellsinger bard I have a holy quaterstaff of undead bane, slashes the undead into bits in no time.


Is there hope? Does it get better? I get groups because my guild is nice enough to let me tag along, but it's clear they would rather me play one of my other (useful) toons, and I can't really blame them.

Honestly I think you might not be playing your build to the max, especially below the 20 cap the spellsinger can be a big asset to any group.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

My spellsinger isn't as useful -in melee- on quests with undead as say a fighter or a cleric. That's OK. Granting them the best damage buff in the game, hasting and blurring/displacing them, and healing them is plenty.

If you want to contribute to the melee, it doesn't *have* to be via direct damage- move like a rogue in combat and let others get the aggro, then-
Use a Vertigo weapon, and trip them. Knock out the casters first.
Use a Destruction/Improved Destruction weapons set and completely destroy the AC.
Use a Cursespewer to drop their saves and spoil their attacks.
You only need hit once with each/any of these, and then move on to the next target.

Under normal circumstances, spellsinger melee dps is limited anyway. If you can get a decent Backstabbing weapon, you can basically fight in a rogue-like way, getting sneak attacks by conventionally letting others get the aggro first. But Bards excel at setting up sneak attacks- you have Blind, Glitterdust, Charms, Hold Person/Monster
and hopefully strong Diplo. A high level backstabber adds +8 to damage and +5 to hit. Add your bard song damage and attack boosts, and your numbers start looking much more like a fighters.

[Rusty_Can]

I don't heal as well as a cleric as I don't have mass cures, heal, or raise dead

Bards can select Mass Cure Wounds spells (Light and Moderate) as level 5 and 6 spells; if your character has Maximize or Empower or Empower Healing, he will be able to dish out decent healing.

Bards, especially CHA-based ones, are expected to have high UMD: you will soon be able to use Raise Dead (DC 36), Heal, Reconstruct (DC 40), Resurrection (DC 44) scrolls (and many else).



my melee is, to put it bluntly, a joke

It depends on your build and its focus; if your character is a high CHA spellsinger, then melee isn't probably its main focus; nevertheless, you should be able to defend yourself.


and my signature ability -- fascinate -- is so situational as to be essentially worthless.

Fascinate is only one of the several possible uses of your songs; btw, it's often underrated: it's powerful.


As for CC in general, my drow charisma is maxed and I have solid charisma and enchantment items, but I have nothing -- songs or spells -- that effects undead, so there was no point to that either as undead make up pretty much everything monster wise that I see.


I might be mistaken, but, as far as i recall, Glitterdust spell affects also undead foes.

"Music of the Dead" enhancement allows bards to fascinate undead; unfortunately for you, it requires Virtuoso I PrE or Extra Song IV, hence you will be able to get it only at higher level.



Is there hope? Does it get better? I get groups because my guild is nice enough to let me tag along, but it's clear they would rather me play one of my other (useful) toons, and I can't really blame them.

Uhm .... in my experience, bards are always a welcome addition to any party; regardless of your PrE, your songs (e.g. Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness) are a great buff which no other class can provide.

[Skani]

I might be mistaken, but, as far as i recall, Glitterdust spell affects also undead foes.


Yes, it works for most of them. And its really powerfull spell at low levels.

[Rabbi_Hordo]

Note: Warchanter is usually the "preferred" PrE for Bards, but the following applies regardless:

Your signature ability isn't fascinate, it's songs in general. If you guild/party does not see the benefits of Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, Spellsong Trance, or the occasional Inspire Competence/Fascinate, then the problem lies on their end, not yours.

A bard is usually less "specialized" then the other classes. They get to do a lot of stuff, but (usually) none of it as well as other classes. Your greatest advantage is versatility.

You can help the cleric heal, especially out of battle. You can save casters SP by throwing out the occasional Spellsong. You can save the arcane's some SP for offensive spells by casting Blur, Haste, Heroism, Good Hope, etc in their stead. And worst comes to worst, you can throw down some of the best CC in the game.

So in short: A good bard is never just "along for the ride." Bards excel at making OTHER classes shine. Your signature ability is, in essence, the ability to make everyone better at what they do. Good players will acknowledge and appreciate that ability. But if you really want to be on the top of the kill count, maybe bard isn't quite for you.


QFT

+1 Rep BTW

Bards are really my thing. I'm pretty darn good at rogues, but bards are what I am best at. My melees and casters get laughed at by those who know me well, and just leave folks' jaws agape as I decimate, not the mobs, but my own party on any of my toons except my bards and rogues.

I can tell you for sure that any party, anywhere, should be more than happy to take a well-played bard. If the enhancements are right, your songs make everything they do better and make fights easier. If the spell-choice is right, you might just be able to do that Madstone Crater on Hard with no cleric and a drunk caster who thinks that magic missile is the shizzle. Most of all, in any raid in the game I will guarantee you the party leader would love to see that bard symbol in one of those 12 spots.

Sure, Warchanter is the preferred PrE, and my 2TR is going that route this time, but a Spellsinger can be an awfully powerful addition to the party. Decreased SP costs for all casting toons, and increased DC's to their spells; at maxed out songs the song-buff at 20 by itself is just one bonus point shy of the Warchanter, and since many Warchanters are mixed 18bard/2(insert their favorite melee or evasion class here) the song bonuses are essentially equal; the ability to UMD any and every scroll in the game (if the skill points were put into their slots right and you have the proper CHR bonuses to boot...Shroud crafted items are nice) and you can spot heal. or even in emergencies take over completely for a time in both quests and raids for healing/rezzing/buffing; bard buffs save the mana for both casters and clerics much of the time allowing for better use of that mana in melee situations; and as a Spellsinger your CC spells and songs can turn the tide of a battle in an instant.

If folks aren't seeing how immensely helpful you are to a party, the fault is theirs not yours. Keep playing that lute and the experienced players will soon seek you out to aid them in their quests...heck, even my old hagglebard (spellsinger drow squishy) was much sought after for a long time till TR came out...and now she will soon be ready to take over the world! ;)