How to beat Atari/cryptic at thier own game

[fatherpirate]

Ok, I will say I really like DDO, needs work but overall, it is fun.

Now that Cryptic is done with their quick and dirty treatment of Star Trek, they are already
starting NWN MMO...not good, not that I think it will be successful in the long run but it could
hurt this game.

I don't want that, so here is some advice.

Cryptic will need at least a year to slop something together, and you need to stay in the Eberron set.
Ok, how to beat them even before they launch, fig out their 'hot button' items and do it better or sooner.

What Cryptic will pitch

Character creator
Graphics
PvP
music
and they will try and tie it to the success of NWN+NWN2

How to beat them to the punch?
1. Shift some developers in from your other projects.
2. Don't bother trying to out-do thier character creator...take too long, not worth it.
3. Graphics..Brighten up the colors a bit, spell FX a priority.
4. Your music is fine

PvP - ok, this will be the battle ground item...you don't have it, and they will...and they will harp on it.
take it away from them!

ok, I know this will cost some money and will require extra developers

Create a second city "within the Eberron canon" that is at odds with Stormreach.
about the same size...thier own factions ect..
introduce Evil Alignments "also, get half orcs, half elves, druids ect.. out and going...yesterday"
make this new city similar in content to stormreach...but much darker.

EDIT - almost forgot, add city recruiters to Korthos so prospective players can choose
which city to start at, once they choose...that is it, they can go there or Korthos only.

then, add adventures featuring this city vs city animosity, and lore.
add OPEN, level restricted open PvP areas for city vs city battles...include objectives that
can be held to the benefit of the holding side (similar to DAOC)
Have pvp battle fronts for lvl 10 and lower, 11-15th lvl, 16-20 lvl ect.

battle locations should reflect the lvl of the players...ie lvl 20s should be fighting in the planes.

also, add some of the little things as you have time, visible cloaks, familiars and such.

You have about a year or so to play with.

Move the DDO MMO in a direction that closes off any easy entrance into this market...because
to be honest..you can't aford to share it.

Cryptic games look good day one, but are thin in content and generally have poorly written
adventures...you don't have to beat them long term, beat them short term and they will fold.

Good luck, and please.......clean thier clocks.

[macros123]

The issue ov PvP has come up from time to time, and always the response to those threads has been a few people in favor of adding it, and a nearly overwhelming number of people uninterested in adding it to DDO.

The flavor of this game (in my opinion) is one of community and teamwork. I would personally not enjoy the antagonism that would arise from a PvP situation.

[fatherpirate]

The issue ov PvP has come up from time to time, and always the response to those threads has been a few people in favor of adding it, and a nearly overwhelming number of people uninterested in adding it to DDO.

The flavor of this game (in my opinion) is one of community and teamwork. I would personally not enjoy the antagonism that would arise from a PvP situation.

Yes, but when cryptic launches NWN MMO, do you really think they will...say..hey look, we have another
D+D mmo, we don't have a good community but try us anyways :-)

No, they will pipe a bunch of TV commercials in saying how much better THIER D+D game is and
how sad DDO is due to its total lack of...fill in the blanks with a list.

They will try and bury this game...and even though it's current player base is not too concerned
with opposed factions, PvP ect.. Cryptic will lable this game on TV as..incomplete...old...
not worth playing.

If they want to compete, they need to step it up or get stepped on.

[Zuldar]

PvP just doesn't really have a place in dnd, which is ironic considering its origins. It would be nearly impossible to balance combat short of using 4ed rules. The casters would have an incredible advantage, especially in an open world where they can run up invisibly and gank people.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

large scale PvP is about the worst thing they could do to this game. It would probably kill the game.

As for the spell effects... they look fine to me.

[GreenDragonStalker]

Just a thought but the hole point of D&D is team work and group conquest.... well there is a simple way to keep that and do PvP

create a few raids that are exactly that team on team each team needs to achieve there own set of mission objectives IE defend the fort IE invade the fort and hold it for X amount of time... either side keeps control of the fort for X amount of time with out owner ship changing they win... ad extra optionals for both sides as well

this could be done with so many of the igzisting mini raid quests with minimal changes and would feed the need of the PVP and group combat lovers after a wile intro a hole dang full scale raid map where you get 20 30 people going for it..


My main hatred of PvP on line games is as soon as you start doing it you get script kiddies and there hack programs that need to cheat to feel better about them selves

[Hendrik]

DDO has nothing to fear.

Really, when was the last time Cryptic put something out that could harm anything?

Would be nice if Atari was kicked to the curb and joined forces with Cryptic. Match made in in the lower nine hells! Ohh, Atari/SOE partner with Cryptic! YES!

No wait, isn't that one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse?

:confused:

[Symar-FangofLloth]

DDO has nothing to fear.

Really, when was the last time Cryptic put something out that could harm anything?


Exactly.
Champions Online came out, and as far as I know, City of Heroes is still chugging along strong, with an expansion pack slated for July.

[Missing_Minds]

It will take them 2+ years, because they don't dare use the same client and engine they created for Champions, which then was ported and worked on a little more for Star Trek.

Well... Unless you really want to play DnD old school 80s cartonish ala the DnD and He-Man stylizations.

That and their client UI is very laggy. Expect .5 to 1.5 seconds delay between keyboard and character reaction.

And yes, they would have PvP. Then they'll redo 3.x rules so much it might as well be called 3.cryptic due to balance issues for PvP which would then royally screw over the adventure areas of the game.

And once they have something that seems to be fun, they'll throw out nerfs on day one lauch because they realized they were giving otu to much XP, so you won't be able to level due to lack of content that was worse than anything you've ever had here.

Actually... all of these issues I have stated they could fix very easily with one simple rule calling. They make it a 4.0 based game. All of the above problems solved. Honestly.... I could see them doing this also.

Oh yeah, go play CO to see what they consider "active" combat. *smirk* But character creation would be a blast. That is something they actually can get right.

[Rifter]

An opposing faction is the last thing this game needs, and in all honesty MMO's should give up on it all together. It hasn't been successful since Dark Age of Camelot. WoW has it, but it has nothing to do with the games success.

If people want PvP and turbine want to give it to them, and Arena / Battleground setting would be the best option. Guild Wars use a similar system and it works fine. Extremely competitive PvP in a controlled environment, without the need for a second faction.

I've never understood the logic behind splitting your player base, they already play across several exclusive servers unable to interact with inhabitants of other servers, why split those already fractured populations in half again by causing them to choose a faction?

The only possible explanation for such a split would be if the game were based on already strong and established lore of opposing factions.

World PvP is something that should be avoided at all costs, it only EVER results in high level players attacking lower level players. No game has ever found a way to deter it, or prevent it altogether.

Community, entertainment and living up to promises always end up being the deciding factors in the success and resulting lifespan of an MMO. DDO's community is right up there with the likes of Eve Online in regards to helpfulness, maturity and entertainment without being full of trolling and garbage spam.

Basically, this game feels like DnD and I can't help but fell it would be near impossible to do it much better.

To sum it all up, let them push PvP in and cutting edge graphics (I've always been surprised at how well DDO has aged, and how beautiful it still is) but unless they deliver content that people are looking for, or are lead to believe they will be getting with the marketing storm that will likely ensue, it will fall flat on it's face like the other 20+ MMO's that have been attempted in the last few years.

Really, unless you have an extremely strong IP with the lore to support it, developers shouldn't even bother, and stop wasting out time. DnD is obviously one such avenue, but others like Fallout, Mechwarrior and even Dune have such rich settings, an entire universe of lore, and in a lot of cases exceptional literature to draw from it amazes me that it hasn't been attempted yet (ok fallout has...) while so many new settings and worlds are created from scratch.

Before I get any more off topic... /endrant

[Salsa]

I was pondering a couple of ideas, just ponderings so no reason for anyone to get uppity.

A) PvP: Go the way LoTRO went. Once you get to a certain level you can play a monster. In order to limit griefing, when you activate the monster you get placed in a random active adventure for the level and creature. Different creature types are opened up as you progress. Korthos wouldn't be an option to start at.

IE the first thing available is a kobold at CR .25. Once you hit certain benchmarks you get a stronger kobold option. Eventually you might be able to choose a CR .50 spider or what not. Now, after you choose what you want to play the system looks at current active adventures that include your CR and creature type, if any are found, you are randomly put in one.

Various controls:
1) Player has no choice on where they want to go, so this reduces the chance for griefing
2) Player has to hit certain benchmarks (possibly even requiring GM votes) to advance
3) Monster choice is limited and controlled, you have to earn advancement

What this achieves:
1) Allows normal players the chance to match wits against player monsters
2) Gives more playability to the player base
3) Heck, you can charge TP for special one use monster gear!
4) Might help keep player interest


B) Raiding type stuff, have raids on various points (possibly defended by monster PCs) that PCs have to acquire a certain number of points that open up a crafting facility for a short time. When the time runs out they have to start over. This could possibly be an epic endeavor that takes a dedicated week to accomplish





In addition, give the GMs the ability to posses monsters and make some DMs that can actually add and move some monsters around in active quests. It would add more challenge and a bit of unpredictability to the game.

Course, I have no idea if possession is doable with the engine. Anyways, just thoughts.

[NuclearCoffee]

The day true PvP come to DDO is the day I will quit along with many others!!! VIP here.
Whats with this me too state of mind? If DDO goes that route the game will get lost among the others as same old same old.
If you want PvP go play Planetside or something.

[WeeAngus]

I think that what will keep players playing (and paying) is:

Move DDO even farther away from WOW-style play by adding well developed, written, and INTERESTING adventures that offer possibilities for character development not just leveling.

More oppertunities (and GUI features) for serious roleplayers would be fantastic.

Areas that are non-quest based and focus of challenging specific classes that have a different floor plan, spawn points, and obstacles every time you enter. These areas would be more for bragging rights among guilds and friends. Community development thingies not loot factories.

Fatherpirate's idea for faction Vs. faction and a competing city would be a good place to start.
Coin Lords Vs. Hidden Masters with unique rewards for advancing each cause.

PVP is low on my list of interests.

[fatherpirate]

Well, PvP part of my suggestion could be dropped...though I would have limited it to 4 battle
grounds only.

But lets drop it for the time being...the idea of a 2nd city is still sound..as is the inclusion
of missing classes and the addion of the evil alignments (in the second city only)
as is City vs City style/story based adventure chains.

Basically have something VERY new to help counter atari's media blitz.
It would be helpful in the short run...don't worry so much about cryptics game
long run...folks usually leave them, except for cryptic fans..and they usually stick to cryptic games anyways.

SO

I hear ya, drop the PvP part of my idea.

[Pyromaniac]

I'm all for DDO doing something good (not PVP related), but I'll be trying the next D&D MMO to come along...why wouldn't I?

[Dutch01]

Ok, I will say I really like DDO, needs work but overall, it is fun.

<snip>


Good luck, and please.......clean thier clocks.

You are assuming ATARI is even going to be allowed to create anything based off of the D&D license. With the current lawsuit in play and IIRC the impending lawsuit going into play with Hasbro and ATARI all of that may be in jeopardy for ATARI.

[Aesop]

I'd say...


Get their acts together on Character Morphing and impliment Shifters and Druids and Polymorph like spells (sooner rather than later on this point)

Kick out a bunch of quests over the next year that are well written.

get the community involved through contests and the like. One could be an adventure design contest where players write adventure backgrounds and write ups.


Right before Cryptic releases their game... if that's anytime in the next 3 years... Release Psionics and three classes (not my favorite DnD thing but it would be new and interesting and people will flock to try it out)


Aesop

[SlayerInFlorida]

I was pondering a couple of ideas, just ponderings so no reason for anyone to get uppity.

A) PvP: Go the way LoTRO went. Once you get to a certain level you can play a monster. In order to limit griefing, when you activate the monster you get placed in a random active adventure for the level and creature. Different creature types are opened up as you progress. Korthos wouldn't be an option to start at.

IE the first thing available is a kobold at CR .25. Once you hit certain benchmarks you get a stronger kobold option. Eventually you might be able to choose a CR .50 spider or what not. Now, after you choose what you want to play the system looks at current active adventures that include your CR and creature type, if any are found, you are randomly put in one.

Various controls:
1) Player has no choice on where they want to go, so this reduces the chance for griefing
2) Player has to hit certain benchmarks (possibly even requiring GM votes) to advance
3) Monster choice is limited and controlled, you have to earn advancement

What this achieves:
1) Allows normal players the chance to match wits against player monsters
2) Gives more playability to the player base
3) Heck, you can charge TP for special one use monster gear!
4) Might help keep player interest


B) Raiding type stuff, have raids on various points (possibly defended by monster PCs) that PCs have to acquire a certain number of points that open up a crafting facility for a short time. When the time runs out they have to start over. This could possibly be an epic endeavor that takes a dedicated week to accomplish





In addition, give the GMs the ability to posses monsters and make some DMs that can actually add and move some monsters around in active quests. It would add more challenge and a bit of unpredictability to the game.

Course, I have no idea if possession is doable with the engine. Anyways, just thoughts.

Interesting ideas!

[vettkinn]

I like NWN and will definitely try NWN MMO once available.

But...

If it's not F2P, then DDO simply wins.




Comrade Vettkinn's 2 Rubles :)

[Hendrik]

It will take them 2+ years, because they don't dare use the same client and engine they created for Champions, which then was ported and worked on a little more for Star Trek.

Well... Unless you really want to play DnD old school 80s cartonish ala the DnD and He-Man stylizations.

That and their client UI is very laggy. Expect .5 to 1.5 seconds delay between keyboard and character reaction.

And yes, they would have PvP. Then they'll redo 3.x rules so much it might as well be called 3.cryptic due to balance issues for PvP which would then royally screw over the adventure areas of the game.

And once they have something that seems to be fun, they'll throw out nerfs on day one lauch because they realized they were giving otu to much XP, so you won't be able to level due to lack of content that was worse than anything you've ever had here.

Actually... all of these issues I have stated they could fix very easily with one simple rule calling. They make it a 4.0 based game. All of the above problems solved. Honestly.... I could see them doing this also.

Oh yeah, go play CO to see what they consider "active" combat. *smirk* But character creation would be a blast. That is something they actually can get right.


ONLY thing Cryptic got right. To bad your fubar'd once you are done creating your character in Cryptic games.

[steeldocparker]

Ok, I will say I really like DDO, needs work but overall, it is fun.

Now that Cryptic is done with their quick and dirty treatment of Star Trek, they are already
starting NWN MMO...not good, not that I think it will be successful in the long run but it could
hurt this game.

I don't want that, so here is some advice.

Cryptic will need at least a year to slop something together, and you need to stay in the Eberron set.
Ok, how to beat them even before they launch, fig out their 'hot button' items and do it better or sooner.

What Cryptic will pitch

Character creator
Graphics
PvP
music
and they will try and tie it to the success of NWN+NWN2

How to beat them to the punch?
1. Shift some developers in from your other projects.
2. Don't bother trying to out-do thier character creator...take too long, not worth it.
3. Graphics..Brighten up the colors a bit, spell FX a priority.
4. Your music is fine

PvP - ok, this will be the battle ground item...you don't have it, and they will...and they will harp on it.
take it away from them!

ok, I know this will cost some money and will require extra developers

Create a second city "within the Eberron canon" that is at odds with Stormreach.
about the same size...thier own factions ect..
introduce Evil Alignments "also, get half orcs, half elves, druids ect.. out and going...yesterday"
make this new city similar in content to stormreach...but much darker.

EDIT - almost forgot, add city recruiters to Korthos so prospective players can choose
which city to start at, once they choose...that is it, they can go there or Korthos only.

then, add adventures featuring this city vs city animosity, and lore.
add OPEN, level restricted open PvP areas for city vs city battles...include objectives that
can be held to the benefit of the holding side (similar to DAOC)
Have pvp battle fronts for lvl 10 and lower, 11-15th lvl, 16-20 lvl ect.

battle locations should reflect the lvl of the players...ie lvl 20s should be fighting in the planes.

also, add some of the little things as you have time, visible cloaks, familiars and such.

You have about a year or so to play with.

Move the DDO MMO in a direction that closes off any easy entrance into this market...because
to be honest..you can't aford to share it.

Cryptic games look good day one, but are thin in content and generally have poorly written
adventures...you don't have to beat them long term, beat them short term and they will fold.

Good luck, and please.......clean thier clocks.
lmao yeah rite!! thy do something customers would enjoy . huh ill take a seat and watch. all they want is money and will put ppl through the chinese mind torture till thy get it :) any game tht doesnt have a direct link to the ppl who play it is lost in the long run ppl get burnt out at the **** to go through for the simpliest things .eww we wanna make money just not customer loyalty. thts the asian way :)

[fatherpirate]

You are assuming ATARI is even going to be allowed to create anything based off of the D&D license. With the current lawsuit in play and IIRC the impending lawsuit going into play with Hasbro and ATARI all of that may be in jeopardy for ATARI.

So very very true...I HOPE they lose that law suit and are barred from making it.
cryptic butchers just about every ip they touch.

[Visty]

let them have their pvp

it ill kill them faster then it took to introduce the f2p model

[DoctorWhofan]

I just did the latest Cryptic/Atari game: Star Trek Online.

They will fail if we did nothing. Talk about the worse game I hav ever played, barring FFXI.

Though, to inspire Turbine to speed up Druids, quests, etc. Let's do it.

Except PvP. We don't need it here, even LotRO style PvP (but that will be only PvP I could accept in this game)

[SableShadow]

I just did the latest Cryptic/Atari game: Star Trek Online.

They will fail if we did nothing. Talk about the worse game I hav ever played, barring FFXI.


What's wrong with it, exactly? No endgame?

[DoctorWhofan]

What's wrong with it, exactly? No endgame?

I almost removed my eyes out ofthe sheer boredom.

SHip combat was nicely done BUT, it was like doing WW over and over again, only the enemies and their abilities changed.

Character creater was nice...too badthe ground combat was HORRID. let me say that again...WAS THE HORRID PAINFUL THING IN THE GAME!!!!

[SableShadow]

I almost removed my eyes out ofthe sheer boredom.

Travel time can get a little annoying...


SHip combat was nicely done BUT, it was like doing WW over and over again, only the enemies and their abilities changed.

Meh. Least ways they aren't effectively doubling or tripling their subscriber fees and telling you it's a "bonus". ;)


Character creater was nice...too badthe ground combat was HORRID. let me say that again...WAS THE HORRID PAINFUL THING IN THE GAME!!!!

? Tumble moar! :D

[Hendrik]

What's wrong with it, exactly? No endgame?

It's Pirates of the Burning Sea with a Star Trek skin. "OK" Space combat, if you can call it that, and horridly boring and uninspiring ground combat.

CharGen, like many Cryptic games, is some of the best - beyond that VERY lacking and dull.

Just happy that Gene is not here to see this abomination.

[SeqenenreTao]

lmao yeah rite!! thy do something customers would enjoy . huh ill take a seat and watch. all they want is money and will put ppl through the chinese mind torture till thy get it :) any game tht doesnt have a direct link to the ppl who play it is lost in the long run ppl get burnt out at the **** to go through for the simpliest things .eww we wanna make money just not customer loyalty. thts the asian way :)

Huh? What? English?

-SEQ.

P.S. Say what?

[SableShadow]

Just happy that Gene is not here to see this abomination.

Meh. Inventing the transporter because you don't have budget for shuttle sequences...I think Gene would quite understand. :)