Piercing or Khopesh?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Right now my Drow Paladin wields rapiers and other piercing weapons most of the time (except when DR forces me to use Slashing or Bludgeoning). However, now that Epic Chaosblades have been around for a while I'm starting to wonder if I should drop my Extend Spell feat for Khopesh prof (and switch Improved Critical over) since Epic Chaosblade seems to be the weapon to use lately.

I've been hoping that the next Epic will have a good piercing weapon, but thinking about it, it seems that Turbine has something against any other weapon matching the Khopesh.


I'm not crafting GS weapons yet (working on farming other gear and making GS items first) so there's still some time for me to decide this. Thoughts?

Thanks.

[Ninetoes]

Why don't you just hang on to Extend until you get the Epic Farm Implement, then switch over? It's not like you can't simply swap that feat out whenever you need, right?

I haven't been able to work extend into my WF build yet, and I really miss it. I'm not sure how important it is at later levels, but I sure miss it right now.

[Kriogen]

Drow + Rapier is as good as khopesh. Not much difference.

Chaosblade is Anarhic, as Paladin you get Neg level? Or has this been changed?

Drow + rapier also gives +2 tohit (racial enh). This can be important. You can run with PA on more often. Can you hit, with PA, on roll of 2 on Epic? If you can't hit, then your DPS is 0 (zero).

If/when there is Epic Shroud, there will also be Tier 4 upgrade. Then all other epic toys will be absolite as has been the case with normal/named vs shroud weapons. No idea if this will happen, just want to say, that uber toy come and go. What is uber now, can be junk next week.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Why don't you just hang on to Extend until you get the Epic Farm Implement, then switch over? It's not like you can't simply swap that feat out whenever you need, right?

I haven't been able to work extend into my WF build yet, and I really miss it. I'm not sure how important it is at later levels, but I sure miss it right now.


It's mostly for convenience, honestly. Without extend my short duration spells last about 2 minutes. While it may be a little annoying rebuffing twice as often...I think I can live with it.



Drow + Rapier is as good as khopesh. Not much difference.

Chaosblade is Anarhic, as Paladin you get Neg level? Or has this been changed?

Drow + rapier also gives +2 tohit (racial enh). This can be important. You can run with PA on more often. Can you hit, with PA, on roll of 2 on Epic? If you can't hit, then your DPS is 0 (zero).

If/when there is Epic Shroud, there will also be Tier 4 upgrade. Then all other epic toys will be absolite as has been the case with normal/named vs shroud weapons. No idea if this will happen, just want to say, that uber toy come and go. What is uber now, can be junk next week.


Against 50% Fort with the full enhancement line for damage rapier is behind the khopesh by ~1 damage per hit, if they're both the same type of weapon. Since there is currently no rapier (or other piercing weapon for that matter) that is comparable to Epic Chaosblade...that gets thrown right out the window.

I also can't afford to take the full lines of both rapier Attack and Damage unless I skimp on Exalted Smite or something like that. If I switch to khopeshes though I'll have AP left over to improve my aura.

Really the only thing that would keep me piercing at this point would be if something like Deathnips was made epic. =\

[rimble]

Really the only thing that would keep me piercing at this point would be if something like Deathnips was made epic. =\

Tyrzza's Bane is an alright rapier too, but I doubt Invaders! will be going Epic anytime soon.

I don't think I will be trying to chase dual Epic Chaosblades on my pure Drow Paladin, but I don't blame you for wanting to try.

[Gercho]

are you sure you can get to the umd required for chaos blades? i think its a little hard with a pure paladin...
Anyway, yes, in the end may be the best thing to switch to chaos blades if you can use them... but while you get your pair of epic chaos blades you can hope for a new piercing epic weapon :D

[whomhead]

If you dual wield chaosblades, do you then end up with two negative levels, or just one? I don't have any clue how difficult they are to get, so may be a moot question anyway if its practically impossible to get a matched pair. If it is doable, however, then that would need to be taken into account on your chance to hit. It almost certainly goes without saying, but missed attacks do rather poor DPS. ;)

[rimble]

If you dual wield chaosblades, do you then end up with two negative levels, or just one? I don't have any clue how difficult they are to get, so may be a moot question anyway if its practically impossible to get a matched pair. If it is doable, however, then that would need to be taken into account on your chance to hit. It almost certainly goes without saying, but missed attacks do rather poor DPS. ;)

One.

[hermespan]

I've been hoping that the next Epic will have a good piercing weapon, but thinking about it, it seems that Turbine has something against any other weapon matching the Khopesh.

Thanks.

Khopesh does require a feat and is not class granted so yea, it makes sense that to use them, you need to spend a feat. These requirements justify a little more damage, otherwise khopesh wouldn't be worth the feat.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Khopesh does require a feat and is not class granted so yea, it makes sense that to use them, you need to spend a feat. These requirements justify a little more damage, otherwise khopesh wouldn't be worth the feat.


What I probably should have said was:

"Turbine seems to be against any other one-handed weapon being anywhere close to the Khopesh, especially in Epics."

I'm not really expecting a weapon that's just as good as one, but I would like to see some Epic non-Khopeshes able to compete with Epic Khopeshes, unlike how things are now.

I mean Epic Mirage? Seriously?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Just looked at my enhancements, and those 8 AP I spent on Rapiers I can instead spent of the Saves Aura (+3 to all for 6 AP), +1 Will save to me (Elf Enchantment resist) and an extra minute of Divine Might (Extra Turning 1).


I suppose that settles it. I just hope that now I don't regret it if something like Epic Deathnips comes out. XD

[Seelowe]

do you have 2 epic khaosblades?
I mean I can totally relate to your dilemma but if you are not yet in posession of 2 such weapons the discussion is void.

also, what kind of UMD do you have on your pally?

[Bacab]

Heyas Aylin.

I would say stick with whatya have now until you get the Epic Chaosblades. Also once a mob is stunned/flesh to stone... Picks>Khopesh if you have a high STR. On high fortification monsters...obviously swap off picks.

Do you have Improved Crit Pierce? I am guessing you do. So if you stun mobs or are in a party with a MNK thats spamming stunning fist, roll with those Picks. If not, use those rapiers. Once you get an Epic Chaosblade(s) go ahead and make the switch...Yes they are that awesome(broken...yes). Though I would not BUY the scroll(s). I would wait a little while. You are onto something with EPIC Deathnips (imagine 17-20 x4 and who knows what those bad boys will have on them).

~Bacab

[blitzschlag]

maybe im missing something, but vorpal is quite useless in epic content, no?
so the epic chaosblade is situational at best for pre epic trash mob clearing, right?

[AylinIsAwesome]

do you have 2 epic khaosblades?
I mean I can totally relate to your dilemma but if you are not yet in posession of 2 such weapons the discussion is void.

also, what kind of UMD do you have on your pally?

At the moment I have one regular chaosblade. When my raid timer is up this weekend I'll try and get another one.


As for the UMD, once I craft my CHA skills item I'll be able to hit 31 UMD.


Heyas Aylin.

I would say stick with whatya have now until you get the Epic Chaosblades. Also once a mob is stunned/flesh to stone... Picks>Khopesh if you have a high STR. On high fortification monsters...obviously swap off picks.

Do you have Improved Crit Pierce? I am guessing you do. So if you stun mobs or are in a party with a MNK thats spamming stunning fist, roll with those Picks. If not, use those rapiers. Once you get an Epic Chaosblade(s) go ahead and make the switch...Yes they are that awesome(broken...yes). Though I would not BUY the scroll(s). I would wait a little while. You are onto something with EPIC Deathnips (imagine 17-20 x4 and who knows what those bad boys will have on them).

~Bacab

Most of what I do is pug or solo, so I can't really count on the mobs being stunned for me.

Though I'd imagine Epic Deathnips will have Seeker +10, Maiming, a die increase on damage, a red slot and probably a colourless one too.

When they come out I can always switch back to Piercing though. In the meantime I'll enjoy the higher saves (I went to see Fred before I went to bed last night).

[Redcoil]

First off, you know how long it took us to GET Khopeshes in game? For a long, long time they were not on random loot tables; end rewards only and even then it was almost non existant.

Second, racial +hit / damage helps a lot on mobs with fort.


And yes, ANY class can hit the 30 UMD required for a Epic chaosblade.

11.5 Ranks
2 = Head of Good Fortune
4 = Greater Hero
5 = Titan Gloves
6 = +6 Exceptional Cha Skills, Shroud

Even starting 6 cha, a +2 tome and +6 item bring you up to 14 = +2

Tada, 30 umd. Not easy, but can be done :-)

As a pally, either stay rapiers and save a TON of time and money OR

Get 2 chaosblades, make them epic and add Silver, and enjoy your Good-aligned capstone. And you'll love the smites, but your average damage will be about the same.

The 1d3 self healing is okay, but as a pally you dont NEED it.

[AylinIsAwesome]

And yes, ANY class can hit the 30 UMD required for a Epic chaosblade.

11.5 Ranks
2 = Head of Good Fortune
4 = Greater Hero
5 = Titan Gloves
6 = +6 Exceptional Cha Skills, Shroud



Actually I can hit it through:

+9 CHA bonus (I have 28 CHA atm)
+3 Golden Cartouche
+4 Greater Heroism
+11 ranks
+5 CHA skills item
=32

[Angelus_dead]

I'm not crafting GS weapons yet (working on farming other gear and making GS items first) so there's still some time for me to decide this. Thoughts?
1. Epic mode is apparently focused on quests which are part of raid chains. (This makes sense, because those are the quests that were most solidly "endgame" when they came out)
2. There has never been a raid rapier in DDO.
3. The only named rapier in a raid-related quest is a +5 Frost thing from Ghost of Perdition.
4. So far every epic piercing weapon has been inferior to tier 3 greensteel, and half of them are inferior to tier 2 greensteel.

[Seelowe]

At the moment I have one regular chaosblade. When my raid timer is up this weekend I'll try and get another one.


As for the UMD, once I craft my CHA skills item I'll be able to hit 31 UMD.


okies. exactly why I was asking about the umd. will need to self buff yurself in a tavern each time to log in to equip them but that is not a big deal at all.

what is a big deal atm is getting 2 seals and 2 shards together for them. I have played with the idea myself but if you want to pug epic content and dq2 until you find the shards and seal (the scrolls you can buy so obviously a much easier job aquiring them) I hope you have a solid friend's list able to run the required quests on a regular basis^^

gl with them :)