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soloman
02-28-2010, 11:13 AM
My intent on writing this post is to cover some ground on issues that inspire thought, appreciation and concerns within myself. It is mostly to encourage veterans players to get back out there as far as pugging goes and also to give homage to those who have made a difference in my life as an online gamer.

I am hoping to make a difference.

As I look back at my time on this server, the things I have learned and the people I have "met", I find myself full of insight on the ways of this game and the turns that people make as they develope both socially and skill wise.

Now when I began playing there was an obvious class system (as there is with any social stucture) that seperated the newb (me) from those who founded the game and had already learned the "ins" and "outs" of character building, instance manipulation and gaming tactics. Back then, it was very hard for me and other newbs to learn higher end content as; if you didnt already know the quests or raids, it was very difficult to get into a group that would be willing to take a clueless newb to show him how to do it right.

As the population grew on our server and the conent increased, things began to take turns as far as the way veterans saw the wide eyed newb standing in the harbor. The DDO vets began seeing guys that I came up with like DrSin and Roc go from total newbs to become two of the most popular raid leaders on the server and they began to understand that if given time, some of these other new players could develope into excellent additions to the Thelanis populace. This was a fine time for gaming and while it lasted I learned alot about the game and inproved myself as a player well enough to gain respect from alot of people in our online community.

Now I will never be a great raid leader or Stormreach legend but I worked my way up well enough that I no longer had too much trouble coattailing a raid here and there and from time to time I have been called upon to help peeps get through difficult situations. It was this state of the game that made the biggest change in me as far as a player and I am greatful for it.

Unfortuantely state did not last long as the FTP system came onboard and our server become soo over-run with new players (some of them very, very aweful) that the vets grew even more weary of taking pug newbs into their groups and teaching them the ropes. Their patience and tolerance went from thin to nil and I sense a great loss for many new players joining our game.

I truly hope that things change as far as this mindset goes but having quite a few bad pug experiences myself, I can understand the thought process that leads one to that state of mind.

I dont blame those who have taken this position but still it saddens me to see the regression. Personally I have been lucky enough to meet and run with some super-special players that despite being the best our server has to offer as far as talent goes, they are some of the coolest peeps you will ever meet online, Petey, Ay, Sem, Cersiv and Shortribs just to name a few and from them I leanred alot about the kind of player I wanted to be and the way I wanted to carry myself.

I will continue to drudge on in my development and would consider myself blessed to ever be able to call any them a freind. Now most those names just mentioned eventually moved their way over to the "darkside" :D to follow their ambitions of playing with and becoming even better players that they already were but despite that and their change in demeanor or DDO bedside manner, I will always appreciate the role they played in making me the player I am today.

Now I am aware of the attempts that some of my community has made to help new players and I applaud them for their efforts but I challenge all of you to take stride with them, take a newb under your wing and help guide them to be the kind of player they can be. Many others have started threads about this very topic so I am aware that I am not saying anything that has not been said before but I suppose I felt the obligation within myself to say something.

This is simply my attemt to make a difference.....tc peeps~Solo

Ironforge_Clan
02-28-2010, 11:15 AM
Stopped reading after the title. Sorry man but one big block of text? Ugh, you could have broken it down a bit to make it a bit easier to read/scan through. At least that way people might actually read the entire message.

Gorby
02-28-2010, 11:18 AM
http://blog.cold-comfort.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/20021223_05_mistake.gif

soloman
02-28-2010, 11:21 AM
Was a grunt in the service so Im not much of a writer :D....that edit any better?

KillEveryone
02-28-2010, 11:22 AM
My intent on writing this post is to cover some ground on issues that inspire thought, appreciation and concerns within myself. It is mostly to encourage veterans players to get back out there as far as pugging goes and also to give homage to those who have made a difference in my life as an online gamer.

I am hoping to make a difference.

As I look back at my time on this server, the things I have learned and the people I have "met", I find myself full of insight on the ways of this game and the turns that people make as they develope both socially and skill wise.

Now when I began playing there was an obvious class system (as there is with any social stucture) that seperated the newb (me) from those who founded the game and had already learned the "ins" and "outs" of character building, instance manipulation and gaming tactics. Back then, it was very hard for me and other newbs to learn higher end content as; if you didnt already know the quests or raids, it was very difficult to get into a group that would be willing to take a clueless newb to show him how to do it right.

As the population grew on our server and the conent increased, things began to take turns as far as the way veterans saw the wide eyed newb standing in the harbor. The DDO vets began seeing guys that I came up with like DrSin and Roc go from total newbs to become two of the most popular raid leaders on the server and they began to understand that if given time, some of these other new players could develope into excellent additions to the Thelanis populace. This was a fine time for gaming and while it lasted I learned alot about the game and inproved myself as a player well enough to gain respect from alot of people in our online community.

Now I will never be a great raid leader or Stormreach legend but I worked my way up well enough that I no longer had too much trouble coattailing a raid here and there and from time to time I have been called upon to help peeps get through difficult situations. It was this state of the game that made the biggest change in me as far as a player and I am greatful for it.

Unfortuantely state did not last long as the FTP system came onboard and our server become soo over-run with new players (some of them very, very aweful) that the vets grew even more weary of taking pug newbs into their groups and teaching them the ropes. Their patience and tolerance went from thin to nil and I sense a great loss for many new players joining our game.

I truly hope that things change as far as this mindset goes but having quite a few bad pug experiences myself, I can understand the thought process that leads one to that state of mind.

I dont blame those who have taken this position but still it saddens me to see the regression. Personally I have been lucky enough to meet and run with some super-special players that despite being the best our server has to offer as far as talent goes, they are some of the coolest peeps you will ever meet online, Petey, Ay, Sem, Cersiv and Shortribs just to name a few and from them I leanred alot about the kind of player I wanted to be and the way I wanted to carry myself.

I will continue to drudge on in my development and would consider myself blessed to ever be able to call any them a freind. Now most those names just mentioned eventually moved their way over to the "darkside" :D to follow their ambitions of playing with and becoming even better players that they already were but despite that and their change in demeanor or DDO bedside manner, I will always appreciate the role they played in making me the player I am today.

Now I am aware of the attempts that some of my community has made to help new players and I applaud them for their efforts but I challenge all of you to take stride with them, take a newb under your wing and help guide them to be the kind of player they can be. Many others have started threads about this very topic so I am aware that I am not saying anything that has not been said before but I suppose I felt the obligation within myself to say something.

This is simply my attemt to make a difference.....tc peeps~Solo

There.

soloman
02-28-2010, 11:25 AM
Mmmmkay...how bout that?

ecorum
02-28-2010, 11:26 AM
bump

KillEveryone
02-28-2010, 11:26 AM
It is easiear on the eyes.

petegunn
03-01-2010, 01:15 AM
I understand you just fine pasha and I'd like to buy you a pint, or some plus one reppers.

Orratti
03-01-2010, 01:22 AM
It is alot easier to help teach a new player the ropes when you know you have 4 or more experienced players helping you out. We've just gotten such a flood of new blood that unless they are already on your friends list or known by you its hard to even find the other long time players to try to do this with much less pick a new player out of the flood to do this for. We can only try to help in general chat or on the forums and both of these mediums begin to start wearing you down until you're just trying to find some high ground so you don't get swept away. Before it was much easier to help a new player than it is now.

BurningDownTheHouse
03-01-2010, 01:55 AM
/sigh
Here we go again...

It's not just about the vet willing to help a new player, it's much more about the new player wanting to improve and help himself.

Solo, if you woulnd't have helped youself no vet in this game could bring you to where you are today.

It was this way then, it has to be this way now, no way around it.

I'm not realy sure how your headstart was like, but I'm willing to bet it went somthing like this:

1st toon - You have a coolest build idea and you start playing it. You cap the toon without ever seeing the inside of a raid instance. You realise what a gimp you've built. First mule is done. Enter the 2nd toon.

2nd toon - You have enough experience to actually plan this one for a few minutes. This one is playble enough, and you have enoug experience that you feel confident to start raiding. Slowly but surely you gain even more experience and feel like ither playing somthing different or that this toon is still playable, and really not a gimp, but you really wish you could have revised some of your build choices. Enter the 3rd toon.

3d toon - you don't realy make any major mistakes with this one (for the state of the game at the time, lol) and it becomes you main for quite a while. 2nd toon is somtimes dusted out for raids.

From here on you know enough about the game and builds to not embarace yourself in front of other vets. You lead raids somtimes etc.

Now, where do the vets come into this lovely story? Well, they are there, when you end up in a group with them they will usually help with advise, speeding your groth. They will drag you through some of your first raids. They will, somtimes, get frustrated with your n00bness. They are there but, if you are good enough, they are a convinience, not a necessity. It's still you who have to get past the learning curve, and go get em'.

Personally I'd prefer not to play with people that "need" a vet to make a decent player out of them...

My 2cp.

KillEveryone
03-01-2010, 08:30 AM
Not a vet but the jist of a conversation yesterday after servers went back up, with someone that just joined.

I just logged with my new spellsinger and hadn't changed any chat windows. He had listed wanting to join a helpful guild. I was just curious...I like to kill cats...so I sent a tell asking some info...how new was he, what was he looking for in a guild, etc...I also asked where he looks up info if he can't get an answer he needs...Merc's likes people that can look stuff up, at least that is how I figure since I rember how most of my conversation went with Dr. Who Fan when she first talked to me and invited me.

He doesn't look stuff up.

I said that the fourms have some helpful and very knowlegable people and he said that forums are a waste of time. He has DM'ed D&D for the last 10 years and knows everything there is.

I said good luck, DDO isn't PnP.

He sent a tell asking what PnP was right before my logout was complete.

You can never stop learning and you will always encounter something you don't know. Espically since...as I have see posted many times...DDO is not PnP.

The cleave discussion is a good example. Cleave looks like it would be great to have but the DDO mechanics makes it a sub-par feat. Had I not asked about this specifically...I'm not very good at forum searches but try to anyway...I would have taken it as a feat but luckly I asked for some understanding.

I have picked up a lot of info here but I definately don't know everything and still have questions about a lot of stuff. Most of my understanding has come from reading the fourms...some of the posts are really old so I'm unsure of the validity of those...hitting up the Wiki and trying out the stuff in the game itself.

Sometimes /advice can be helpful but there are a lot of Richards that post a bunch of SteamingHotImpressiveTurds. Sometimes it takes patience to find someone that can help there.

soloman
03-01-2010, 06:07 PM
Burning,
I would have to say that I agree with much of what you say. The "n00b" must have to "want" to be a better player to begin with or any efforts from any vet would be wasted. There are many new players that I have run across that no matter how patiently I have tried to explain things to them, listen about as well as I listened to my dad back in the day when he talked to me about girls, drugs and partying.:D There is a growth process for all peeps that play this game and your assumptions on that general development was **** close to what I went through. When I take a guy or gal and work to help them out, I pick folks who have that "want". No players absolutely NEEDS to have a vet watching over them and yes there is a lot more new folks than there is veterans, but we can help...and just by recognizing that fact, I feel we should all take ownership of the future of our gaming community.

Chai
03-02-2010, 02:24 PM
What is this? The Outsiders?

This whole Vets -vs- Froobs "class status" debate that is happening right now is 50% the Vets fault and 50% Froobs fault. I seem to only see the Vets complaining about this on the forums however, as the new players seem to have a pretty decent understanding that they are new and shouldnt be expected to play at the vets level of skill as of yet, or maybe they just use the forums less...

Many vets on the other hand, seem to think that new players should just comprehend all the things they do now after 3 or 4 solid years of playing, tweaking builds, and farming specific loot to exploit certain abilities of a min maxed and templated toon, etc.

Keep in mind that DDO is not a cookie cutter class game ~EQ or WOW where you cant screw up a character. Many Vets rolled up 10 - 15 gimped toons and got them to high level before they really had a clear understanding of the shift in dynamics in gameplay that occurs when fighting mobs that are near or over CR 20.

For those vets who do let new players join up and do raids and other content and for the new players who listen and take direction well, good on you.