18cleric/2monk - Request for Meta Magic Feat Advice

[peterfrosty42]

Hi All,

For my planned 18cleric/2monk build, I have space for 4 meta-magic feats, and am looking for advice.

Expected grouping play-style is to be a healer/buffer first, add Blade Barriers when appropriate, and melee when I can aid group DPS without fear of deaths. I’d also like this char to be a capable soloer.

Offensive casting will primarily be shelved, as my spell penetration is low (-2 because of monk splash), and I just don’t see space for both SpellPen feats (not to mention, Greater Command is prolly the only spell I’ll really miss).

I’m currently leaning toward -
1) Maximize (BBs and Cures)
2) Extend (buffs!)
3) Quicken (BBs, faster heals when needed)
4) Heighten (better DCs on saves)

I’m thinking about dropping heighten from the mix. Maybe picking up Mental Toughness or Empower

Thoughts...?

Thanks :)

[dkrypt]

Hi All,

For my planned 18cleric/2monk build, I have space for 4 meta-magic feats, and am looking for advice.

Expected grouping play-style is to be a healer/buffer first, add Blade Barriers when appropriate, and melee when I can aid group DPS without fear of deaths. I’d also like this char to be a capable soloer.

Offensive casting will primarily be shelved, as my spell penetration is low (-2 because of monk splash), and I just don’t see space for both SpellPen feats (not to mention, Greater Command is prolly the only spell I’ll really miss).

I’m currently leaning toward -
1) Maximize (BBs and Cures)
2) Extend (buffs!)
3) Quicken (BBs, faster heals when needed)
4) Heighten (better DCs on saves)

I’m thinking about dropping heighten from the mix. Maybe picking up Mental Toughness or Empower

Thoughts...?

Thanks :)Heighten is not worth the hassle of toggling it. It will proc on your Heals and Mass Heals, which is really annoying and wasteful and useless. Take empower instead for a beefier BB and better mass cures. Or, empower healing.

[phalaeo]

You shouldn't lose too much on your offensive casting. Wind stance gives you +2 WIS.

I would advise against Extend- it's useful for buffs at lower levels, but as you get higher and higher, your buffs will last between shrines. Some people will take it and then swap it out around mid-game before it gets too expensive to feat swap.

[peterfrosty42]

Heighten is not worth the hassle of toggling it. It will proc on your Heals and Mass Heals...
Didn't think of that. Good point. Probably wouldn't end up using it much anyway...


You shouldn't lose too much on your offensive casting. Wind stance gives you +2 WIS.
Wisdom doesn't help penetrate spell resistance. Chance of penetrating a mobs resist only uses caster level, and spell pen boosts (items/feats/enhancements) I believe. Wis helps your spell DC, which indeed will be high with wind stance.

Thanks for the thoughts on extend...extend my indeed become overkill once I've leveled a bit, and switching it out makes sense to me.

[Propane]

Extend is good for some of the short buffs (self buffs) and implosion... I would keep extend and drop heighen for Maximize...

[acidtiger]

Extend is good for some of the short buffs (self buffs) and implosion... I would keep extend and drop heighen for Maximize...

Extend doesn't work on implosion unfortunately.

[Ellyll]

I understand what is being said about heighten, and yes if you are healing a raid it would be annoying, but in the mid levels it is godlike to have it for CC. (soundburst heightened in water stance makes easy trash fighting.)

I would consider taking it and swapping it out later.

Also, you should know that monk finishers key off of character level, not monk level. This means that if you "break the rules" and go 3 monk 17 cleric you will get all the monk finishers , including the 25% mana saver, 60 sec immunity to stun, healing ki at Character Level, etc..(and still an L9 cleric spell)

I have a L3 monk, L3 cleric and am going the rest all in cleric. I will say that level 5-ish, before you get healing ki, is a bit af a low point in the build, but it is really starting to rock at 6.

GL, hope it goes well for you.

EDIT: I also have a L8 pure cleric, which is how I know that heightened soundburst does in fact rock at mid level.

[phalaeo]

Wisdom doesn't help penetrate spell resistance. Chance of penetrating a mobs resist only uses caster level, and spell pen boosts (items/feats/enhancements) I believe. Wis helps your spell DC, which indeed will be high with wind stance.


I know, hence why I said that you wouldn't be losing much on your offensive casting. ;)

I have one level Monk right now and will be putting the second level in shortly. I don't think that I've really lost anything. It might be there in the cold hard math, but I'm not noticing any significant decrease in capability in a practical sense while in game.

[shenthing]

I would advise against Extend- it's useful for buffs at lower levels, but as you get higher and higher, your buffs will last between shrines. Some people will take it and then swap it out around mid-game before it gets too expensive to feat swap.

Extended Blade barriers never get old... especially if you are soloing. Also, a few good spells can be extended that have very short durations. Divine Power/Favor, all of the symbols, Holy Aura, and Recitation come to mind right off. When partying, extended symbols will be useful in few situations at best but a longer duration on Recitation is definitly a good thing.
I'm still riding the fence on Quicken personally (tons of post slamming or praising it), more spell points is never a bad idea, but its a hard call between an additional 100SP vs Empower... I would lean toward Empower.

[phalaeo]

Extended Blade barriers never get old... especially if you are soloing. Also, a few good spells can be extended that have very short durations. Divine Power/Favor, all of the symbols, Holy Aura, and Recitation come to mind right off. When partying, extended symbols will be useful in few situations at best but a longer duration on Recitation is definitly a good thing.
I'm still riding the fence on Quicken personally (tons of post slamming or praising it), more spell points is never a bad idea, but its a hard call between an additional 100SP vs Empower... I would lean toward Empower.

My argument against Extend really may just be based more towards my playstyle. I am grouped about 85% of the time and if it isn't dead by then, a non-extended BB just isn't going to be the solution. I personally don't find that I've ever used an extended BB while soloing either, so I'm curious if you could expound on your experience.

Could you perhaps list some of the areas (slayer/quests/whathaveyou) where you have found an extended BB to be of use?

[shenthing]

Almost any explorer area is a great spot for it. Granted most higher level quests and raids really don't have any use of it, but its pretty awesome in a couple of corners if you are soloing The Vale, The Valley, or Mount Reysalon. You can throw one before dragging all of the eles and rusties in Rainbow to tag all of them and I'm sure there are others I am not currently considering. It is also a great boon if you wanna take on certain quests above your level shortly after grabbing it.
Besides that, there are 2 specific spots where you can use em for an awesome agro bounce(you'll have to find these for yourself, 1 can be found in the marketplace). Don't forget the other extendable spells tho.

[Ellyll]

And I just checked on my cleric, and heighten isn't proc'ing on cure spells... Are you saying it does on heals? If so, why?

[Quikster]

And I just checked on my cleric, and heighten isn't proc'ing on cure spells... Are you saying it does on heals? If so, why?

Procs on Heal and Mass Heal, not on cures.

Personally I turn on highten and leave it on. I usually scroll heal instead of heal if at all possible. Not really due to the highten issue, just that the heal spell tends to over heal. Highten will add+2 to destruction, +3 to your BB, and +4 to Greater Command. For the way I play my cleric thats right there is worth the 15 extra sp it costs me for leaving it on when I use the Heal spell. I dont use mass heal myself so i dont worry about it with that.


OP: for how I play Id want Empower over mental toughness. Im not big into mental toughness feats. I try to make up for it with sp regen. I have never ever felt I needed mental toughness on any class other than wizard.

[peterfrosty42]

Also, you should know that monk finishers key off of character level, not monk level.
Are you sure this is accurate? The compendium (which has some errors), says the following:

"The saving throws for finishing moves have a DC of 10 + (monk level) + wisdom modifier, unless otherwise mentioned. The saves are deliberately higher than normal moves to compensate for the difficulty in using them. They are mostly Fortitude saves."

...or am I missing something?

Thanks,

[Ellyll]

Are you sure this is accurate? The compendium (which has some errors), says the following:

"The saving throws for finishing moves have a DC of 10 + (monk level) + wisdom modifier, unless otherwise mentioned. The saves are deliberately higher than normal moves to compensate for the difficulty in using them. They are mostly Fortitude saves."

...or am I missing something?

Thanks,

That might be true, as far as the saving throws go, haven't really tested any "savable" finishers with this. I was mainly referring to light path finishers though, which have no saving throw. I guess the fire finisher might have a reflex throw to save for half? (idk about this, though, have not read that anywhere, but it would make sense.)

The healing amount of healing ki and the damage amount of the fire finisher definatley key off of character level, though, from everything I have been able to find out. (including having a 3mnk/3cleric)

[Lymnus]

That might be true, as far as the saving throws go, haven't really tested any "savable" finishers with this. I was mainly referring to light path finishers though, which have no saving throw. I guess the fire finisher might have a reflex throw to save for half? (idk about this, though, have not read that anywhere, but it would make sense.)

The healing amount of healing ki and the damage amount of the fire finisher definatley key off of character level, though, from everything I have been able to find out. (including having a 3mnk/3cleric)

But even then, you'd have to have 3 levels of monk. I understand that you have 3 levels of it, but the OP only has two.

Four metamagics:
Extend
Quicken
Maximize
Empower/Empower Healing.