Holy Bolony - Hate Tank

[OldAquarian]

+60% healing, massive fort saves, immunities, high other saves
Human for extra feat and skill and +30% heals
Monk for Stances and unarmed attack and bonus toughness, and improved evasion with full 20 BAB
Pally for Divine Righteousness and saves and fear immunity, and DoS for hate stance
Fighter for bonus feat and prereq Tower Shield Proficiency for DoS and to unlock intimidate

460 HP before tomes and gear
With gear much more HP and more +heal

DPS should be high enough to keep hate, especially on high fort bosses
Will be in Mountain III for +3 Con and extra DR or Wind Stance III for extra dps

Anyway - please comment (thank you to those that did so far)

Notice Max Inimidate and almost maxed Concentration Skill with 8 int

EDIT: Switched pally Pre to DoS and rearranged class order


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Holy Bolony
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 12 Monk)
Hit Points: 460
Spell Points: 10
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 18
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 20
Dexterity 16 17
Constitution 16 17
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 3
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 3 27
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 6 26
Jump 6 12
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 2 5
Tumble n/a 4
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

[sinedist]

I like the idea a lot, mate. You could most definitely put some hurt out there. Combining the kind of damage that gets tacked onto each hit (HotD or KotC) with the speed of unarmed monks in Windstance? Yum.

The 12 monk/6 pally blend is nice; much better than the 12 pally/6 monk. I debated this kind of a build myself, actually, before going Kensai II instead of KotC I. My concerns then would be what my concerns here are.

Namely...

Hit Points: the build comes up short, in regard to serving the purpose as a main tank, by about 200 HP. The monk/human healing amp is absolutely sick, especially at such a low AP cost. Combined with the kind of infinite self-healing that the paladin class is able to sustain? Great. But if you're looking to tank, you should have about 600HP for when things go **** up. It's nice to give healers that leg room in case they can't make that next heal off perfectly. Best case scenario, you will only come out with ~100 additional HP from gear, putting you in a potentially bad area against enemies with 500+ disintegrates followed by a chain of hits.

Now, if you weren't gearing for a position as tank... that would be another story. Your HP and Healing would make you exceptionally survivable as raw DPS. The only thing you may have to worry about is aggro.

You won't have an exceptional AC, nor an exceptional DR, so what you need is a somewhat exceptional HP.

Stats: I wracked my brain over the stats for this kind of build. Many headaches ensued. That Monks are one of the most multi-ability-distribution classes in the game gets even more complicated when paired with the other most MAD classes in the game: Paladin. Using WIS and INT as dump stats is smart, but you are still stuck so tightly between your other stats...

One of your concerns here will be your to-hit. Starting a build with a 12 in the Stat that is going to be used for your to-hit and your damage? Not such a good idea. Not being a halfling, you won't have flanking bonuses that can permit that kind of decision. Being a tank, you should never count on flanking bonuses.

I might even suggest using weapon finesse here... but it was because I couldn't suss out the harmony between STR, DEX, CON, and CHA that I put the idea to bed.

Perhaps you could drop DEX altogether. Go for THF with a QStaff. That would help lessen the tax on, what are now, 4 primary Stats.

On another note, the numbers on a high CHA 12/6/2 build are pretty nice... especially when you throw in shining star for mobs and pally clickies for bosses.

Damage: I loveeeee the idea of a KotC monk. Love it. I know you play a monk, so I won't wax on the details of how monks function in terms of DPS. Where the gains from Paladin come from are smites (typically on already high multiplier weapons), the PrE damage effects, and from DM. With a x2 damaging weapon and only six levels of Pally, you aren't getting as much DPS as the build might have you think.

In fact, a capped monk would do more damage than you at this point; but you have the increased hate to combat that... and monks typically go after decreased hate.

No matter what, I think you would want to sit in Windstance III. The DPS from builds like this come from their ability to hit fast. Really fast. Given that you are going the route of 12 monk, the DPS gain from Windstance III is substantial. While the benefits of mountain stance III is a svelt 6/DR- and a +3 CON, holding aggro will become an issue here -- even with the benefits to hate aggro given by the class. You could opt for DoS and chasing after the role of a decent damaging intimitank.

As it stands, these kinds of concerns would be what you want to press on first. At least from my limited perspective.

I want to see this build work so badly, but I can't see it work as a tank. In the air, it's an alluring build; in reality, it's... less appealing... which bums me out.

As it stands, I think you have an amazingly survivable, respectively damaging build here. It would be a contribution to any party... but I might rethink how it would serve as a tank.

[OldAquarian]

Stealing from the Valhelm tank post ( http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=214423 )
and assuming I switch to DoS for the stance and extra hate
Losing the +10% heal


HITPOINTS
Planner output = 362 (too lazy to fully break it down)
+6 Con Item + 60
+2 Con (Litany and Tome) +20
Litany -5
GFL + 30
Minos Legen + 20
Greensteel + 45
Gianthold Favor + 10
DoS Stance + 40
Yugoloth Pot + 40

Total = 622 (662 w/ enhancement changes)

Holy Bolony build has 98 more HP for a Total of 720 HP with above gear
Could probably hit 800 in Mountain Stance and top gear/tomes

Would love to see this build work since I think there are great synergies in the build
Double healing and all the perks makes me really want to work this out.

EDIT: was 698 before changes so quote below refers to: Holy Bologny build has 76 more HP for a Total of ~700 HP

[Greydeath]

Holy Bologny build has 76 more HP for a Total of ~700 HP

Fail - check your math :rolleyes:

[Rasczak]

Silly question but, why would a pally want extra turning?

[Narzic]

Silly question but, why would a pally want extra turning?

for more DR uses i would think.

Edit: it's also a requirement for HotD.

[OldAquarian]

Switched HotD to DoS and I like it even more even though it loses 10% heal boost

Can Intimtank and/or Hate Tank

More HP since prereq for Pally PrE is now free with fighter (Dropped Extra Turning Feat)


Also changed stats around
Note that:
If you already have a +1 Dex tome, change +DEX increase to +STR
If you already have higher +Dex tomes - juggle the feats and up the starting STR,
a +3 DEX tome means +3 STR , switch start stats and make +DEX +STR
a +4 DEX tome doesn't help
so a +3 DEX tome and a +3 STR tome would be +6 STR vs posted build

But, built this way to show you don't need tomes

Best stats to pump with gear/tomes are STR/CON/CHR - only 3 stats to juggle
+gear to WIS for some SP (and to cast at all - only really needed for DF), + DEX for even more Reflex, both for some AC but AC is not critical to this build

Can pick:
Mountain: 490 HP with DR and tons of Ki - Intimitank mode
Wind: 440 HP and extra attack speed - Hate tank mode

[sinedist]

I think this works out better. A lot better. Better HP, nicer DPS, less niche-based in damage... oi oi.

It makes me wonder what kind of AC you can get... and what a second tier monk PrE (when we finally get them) might add to this...

Still, you may have DPS issues with this unless you go loot crazy. I still kind of see this build working better as a QStaff build, allowing you to exploit the rahl's might criticals with smites, and cleaves after intimidating to better secure aggro. It would free up DEX for CHA, meaning better saves, and better Pally abilities.

I'd need to run some numbers before I speak with any certainty though.

[OldAquarian]

I still kind of see this build working better as a QStaff build, allowing you to exploit the rahl's might criticals with smites, and cleaves after intimidating to better secure aggro. It would free up DEX for CHA, meaning better saves, and better Pally abilities

Funny you should mention that - Qstaff Kensai WF version here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=233120