Little help with evasion.

[ArloOne]

Hi, I am wondering if someone could give me some advice on how to better my reflex save. I have a basic rogue 2/wizard 11 warforged. I am currently 13th lvl. I have insightful reflexes and an Int of 30. With GH,voice,nightshield I can get my reflex to 25...But unfortunatly I was getting walloped in VONS 5(Hard Difficulty) from the blade traps iin the split hallway.


Anyone help?

Thanks

I was wondering also if chaosguards dodge bonus would help...But, any advice is appreciated.

[biggin]

Max DEX as much as possible. You need to plan for it ahead of time. Having evasion and a low reflex doesn't help much. :) Just as a reference point at the same level or close to it I could get my reflex to the mid-30's on my cleric/monk. Trapblast goggles will help too, adds 4 to your reflex. Hope this helps.

[Happosaai]

With insightful reflexes, you don't need to do anything to dex. The Int mod replaces the Dex mod in this case.

As for your saves, it's higher than mine was at that point.

[Kaervas]

Hi, I am wondering if someone could give me some advice on how to better my reflex save. I have a basic rogue 2/wizard 11 warforged. I am currently 13th lvl. I have insightful reflexes and an Int of 30. With GH,voice,nightshield I can get my reflex to 25...But unfortunatly I was getting walloped in VONS 5(Hard Difficulty) from the blade traps iin the split hallway.


Anyone help?

Thanks

I was wondering also if chaosguards dodge bonus would help...But, any advice is appreciated.

I failed that save on elite with a save roll of something like 7+34 bonus (exact numbers might be off, it was a while ago). It was rather shocking.
That gauntlet was my first indicator of the main weakness of a trapsmith wizard, the insufficient reflex saves if Turbine decides to make boxes in the middle of active traps more common.

Beyond Nightshield which only gives a +3 resistance bonus to saves, you can get 2 more by getting a +5 resistance item, and if True Neutral, a Superior Stability item takes that to +6.
Haste gives you a +1 dodge bonus to reflex saves. Chaosguarde won't help, it's dodge AC.
Holding a weapon with Greater Parrying grants +2 insight bonus to saves.
Get a HoGF (requires Reaver raid in GH Tor) for +2 luck bonus instead of the +1 VotM. Easymode: Get cleric/FVS to give you Recitation buff for +2 luck bonus to saves among other stuff.

At your level, you can squeeze out 1 more point from Int without too much work:
Base 18 + 3 level + 3 enhancement + 6 item (possible at 13, though may be expensive) + 2 tome = 32 Int

That's a possible 8 more to saves, though HoGF and Superior Stability are not easy to come by (and you may not be True Neutral so that might rule out Superior Stability permanently).
You'll get 1 further point simply by leveling to 20, as you'll get 2 more points of innate Int.

Beyond that, your Int will raise 3 more from Exceptional Int on various raid craftables, and 1 (or even 2) more by upgrading the tome to +3 or +4. You can get 1 further point from Litany of the Dead, and rely on Recitation for the +2 luck bonus. This makes 6 Int more, for +3 extra to saves.




In any case, I would browse the broker and get a crummy Greater Parrying weapon for a pittance, make sure you're Hasted for the extra 1 to reflex saves, and pick up at least a +4 resistance to saves item, if not +5.

[rimble]

I can't think of a whole lot more you can do at that level.

Nightshield caps at Resistance +3, I think you can find a +4 or maybe a +5 at 13th level. You could put on your Trapblast Goggles for +4, unless your +Int item is your goggles, which is likely.

Rogue Improved Trap Sense I is +2.

Haste is +1.

[biggin]

With insightful reflexes, you don't need to do anything to dex. The Int mod replaces the Dex mod in this case.

As for your saves, it's higher than mine was at that point.

Ya, just hate to see a caster burning feats on a reflex save.

Also a Head of Good Fortune will help.

[Kaervas]

Rogue Improved Trap Sense I is +2.

Nice catch on the Improved Trap Sense I, completely forgot about that one as my AP are a pretty tight fit.



Ya, just hate to see a caster burning feats on a reflex save.

A wizard can more than afford it with their kajillion bonus feats, and a wiz/rogue 18/2 split has Evasion making Insightful Reflexes very potent.
I would even consider it on a wizard without evasion because taking half damage is still good compared to failing the save and taking full damage.

[Happosaai]

Ya, just hate to see a caster burning feats on a reflex save.

Also a Head of Good Fortune will help.

For a Wiz/Rogue multi-class it's totally worth it, especially so you don't have to waste build points on Dex.

[biggin]

I see your point, but here's my arguement. If you take toughness you get extra HP, pays for itself. If you burn a feat on improving your reflex save but it isn't viable to make saves, then was it a good feat to take? If he can farm the other stuff to bring it up to par than great. If not then why not just take another toughness, mental toughness, etc.? Not saying it was a bad choice, but I see it the same as building for AC. Either it's viable or it isn't. Having a cleric with evasion is one of the most fun builds I've played to date. I'm not trying to imply his character is gimped, but I feel you need to either be ready to build/grind/etc for what you want the end result to be or maybe go in a different direction.

[ArloOne]

Thanks for the input so far, much appreciated.
As to gear, I forgot those fabulous low level trapblast goggles. Really like the idea of grabbin a Great Parrying item, I have brokered off so many of them, good heads up. Unfortunatly, I put Tor on the back burner after they closed it for the post-update 3 clean-up. Dont mind grinding it for the head.

I also didn't haste myself, I was saving on rolls of 5+, just happened to roll alot of below 5's this run.

So, anyone up for Tor tonight??? Heh....Thanks a bunch folks!

Will the trapbalst goggles and a greater parrying item stack?

[Kaervas]

I see your point, but here's my arguement. If you take toughness you get extra HP, pays for itself. If you burn a feat on improving your reflex save but it isn't viable to make saves, then was it a good feat to take? If he can farm the other stuff to bring it up to par than great. If not then why not just take another toughness, mental toughness, etc.? Not saying it was a bad choice, but I see it the same as building for AC. Either it's viable or it isn't. Having a cleric with evasion is one of the most fun builds I've played to date. I'm not trying to imply his character is gimped, but I feel you need to either be ready to build/grind/etc for what you want the end result to be or maybe go in a different direction.

Making saves versus mob's spells is very very different from hard/elite trap reflex save DCs. The trap DCs are much higher.
In any case, most traps don't even require you to make a save versus them because the box is before the trap or in a location you can get to without being hit by the trap.

None of the gear there is very difficult to get either - you WANT your Intelligence to be as high as possible, the bonus reflex save from it is just the icing on the cake.
HoGF is also useful for UMD, Greater Heroism/Haste/Recitation are just buffs that you'd have anyways, +5/6 resistance is useful for fortitude and will too, and the Greater Parrying item is just a cheap hotswap.


Insightful Reflexes + Evasion against mobs is very reliable in most cases. The only place so far I've found it flat out inadequate is Hard and Elite mode Enter the Kobold, which you can sort of cheese past by running around madly in any case.
By the way, I also have Toughness without any feat issues and this is even after missing the final Wizard bonus feat (because of the 2 rogue levels).

[Kaervas]

Thanks for the input so far, much appreciated.
As to gear, I forgot those fabulous low level trapblast goggles. Really like the idea of grabbin a Great Parrying item, I have brokered off so many of them, good heads up. Unfortunatly, I put Tor on the back burner after they closed it for the post-update 3 clean-up. Dont mind grinding it for the head.

I also didn't haste myself, I was saving on rolls of 5+, just happened to roll alot of below 5's this run.

So, anyone up for Tor tonight??? Heh....Thanks a bunch folks!

Will the trapbalst goggles and a greater parrying item stack?

Greater Parrying is insight, Trapblast is resistance. They will stack.

Trapblast won't stack with a regular item granting +4 or +5 resistance to all saves, which is superior since it will help your likely weak will save, and also contribute to fortitude. Getting universal +4 resistance is more than possible at your level, +5 may be costly.


Edit:
By the way, it is not Tor that you have to grind for HoGF, it is the actual Reaver's Fate raid, which has the standard raid cooldown.

[HallowedOne]

Bear in mind that Elite traps are almost impossible to save - I've seen rogues with 45 reflex failing with a 10 on some...

But, aside from that, there is nothing much you can do. Use items with + reflex/saves, highten your int further. Maybe getting a piece of DT clothes and then imbuing them with the +5 to all saves properties will help with that.

[ArloOne]

Yeah, I know It's the raid for the head, I still need to flag. Turned in my relics, now it's time to pug out a Tor run with the dragons....OH JOY!

Thanks again everyone, If your on Argonessen and need to run Tor...Look up Dravun around 8 PM est...I'll bring the FTS you bring your awesomesauce!