On Wounding of Puncturing

[Big_Russ]

Let me start by saying that I totally understand the purpose behind the original nerf to WoP weapons. It was the easy button and I was guilty as any of running up obscene kill counts.

The problem with WoP now is that it is not the same as what monsters can do to us. If a monster loses all its constitution it is stunned for a few seconds. After that, the monster is free to start swinging weapons for damage and casting spells again. Furthermore, you can't re-establish that stun (unless I have missed something in my experience).

However, if a player loses all of his/her constitution, that play is helpless until healed. No swinging weapons Lose all your constitution to poison and you are helpless until healed or you run around long enough to get some constitution back.

This is certainly not equitable, and I'd rather see the monsters become helpless like players do.

Please consider the change, Turbine. I think it would make a lot of players happy and is still nothing near the way WoP used to be.

[bokaboka]

I coulda swore I saw a nooblet party member get down to Constitution 0 from mummy rot he didn't know how to cure (and didn't ask about :( ). He would get stunned or helpless every 10sec or so.

Edit: he could swing and use actions in between the stuns

[bradleyforrest]

I coulda swore I saw a nooblet party member get down to Constitution 0 from mummy rot he didn't know how to cure (and didn't ask about :( ). He would get stunned or helpless every 10sec or so.

Edit: he could swing and use actions in between the stuns

I'd rather see mobs and players DIE when their Con hits 0, like in PnP, but that's just me.

[gavagai]

I'd rather see mobs and players DIE when their Con hits 0, like in PnP, but that's just me.

Until the DM gave mobs 400 Con scores to rebalance the challenges at higher levels. Which would then gimp casters trying to pass fort saves.

The mistake, IMO, is making Wounding and Puncturing lethal and making them random drop. It wouldn't be horrible if fatal WoP weapons were reintroduced as ML18/Epic named drops. But they would only do 1 point Con damage per hit, so they wouldn't be too OP.

I'm /signed on extending the effects of helplessness, if not for the full 30 second/minute/whatever that players have then 1/2 duration or 1/3.

[suitepotato]

It needs to go back to the way it was when enemies were killed. It was not overpowered, and people were regularly being slaughtered by mobs. Since then we have had mobs given the DA advantage, and saved by Turbine from being killed too quick by players. You'd think that they liked the monsters more than they liked the players. Instead of fixing the game, we get overkill jerky back and forth things. Nerf, then nerf the nerf, then nerf the nerf that nerfed the... ARGGGGGHHHH!!!

We used to do just fine before these changes, lag hasn't been fixed, casters are now the quick killers instead of melee, blanket immunities and inane mechanics have monsters ambushing us with stats and speed enough to require excessive twinking on normal... This game continues to keep going in the wrong direction and WoP is one of those things. If it was so hot, then the wounding, puncturing, weakening, and enfeebling I'm doing during haste would be an easy button and it surely isn't. I've noted before that stat dmg has become so weak that vorpals outdo it. That's stupid.

[Anthios888]

WoP is pretty cool, but they gave way strong of resistances in quests like SoS, prey on the hunter, and epic. I don't think I've taken my rapiers out in months.

[TheKaige]

I'd rather see mobs and players DIE when their Con hits 0, like in PnP, but that's just me.

Problem is the monsters hitpoints used to be beefed way out of whack with their constitution scores. If they actually designed all the mobs the way they would be in PnP, instead of passing out tons of hitpoints to make up for how horribly inefficient mob AI is in this game, then I'd be for that. Players should die from 0 con either way though.

[Memnir]

Well, if we really wanted to be like PnP - we should make Puncturing a 3x per-rest ability.

To make this both practical and restore some of the usefulness of WoP items - I'd propose the following...
Keep the Con Damage = Stun effect. But, make Puncturing an autokill-effect on Con depleted/stunned foes, with three uses per rest.

This way, you could activate the 3x Con drain manually to help take down the Con faster - or save it for an autokill when the Wounding depletes the Con. It would still be three kills per rest maximum, so those who felt it was too much of an easy-button could rest assured it would still be a limited use item.


I don't see them ever going back to Con=Death, but I think this would put a bit more kick back into WoP items. Not to mention - the Devs could give Puncturing to some minibosses in the game, too.

[Gulnar13]

But there already are some monster with WoP. There's a skeleton in Litany of Dead and another one in jeet's drems that carry a lot of weapons ("Fear my cursespewing of greater dwarf bane!") and switch between 'em.

[Eelpout]

Well, if we really wanted to be like PnP - we should make Puncturing a 3x per-rest ability.

To make this both practical and restore some of the usefulness of WoP items - I'd propose the following...
Keep the Con Damage = Stun effect. But, make Puncturing an autokill-effect on Con depleted/stunned foes, with three uses per rest.

This way, you could activate the 3x Con drain manually to help take down the Con faster - or save it for an autokill when the Wounding depletes the Con. It would still be three kills per rest maximum, so those who felt it was too much of an easy-button could rest assured it would still be a limited use item.


I don't see them ever going back to Con=Death, but I think this would put a bit more kick back into WoP items. Not to mention - the Devs could give Puncturing to some minibosses in the game, too.


Nice idea. Not as good as they used to be, but a unique way of making them more situationally useful.

[Big_Russ]

All better ideas than what is currently implemented.

IMO, WoP should be at least as useful as WoE. In it's current form it's not.

[Hurtzz]

What they shoulda done is change puncturing from 1d6 to 1d3 id even be cool with 1d2

Going from best mob killer in game to almost plain worthless is just wrong

Nerf it dont destroy it
If you dont fix it then please change "cloud kill" to "cloud stun" TY


Hurtzz

[platonicx]

If you cant kill a monster in 8 second of autocrits then you desereve to be killed by that monster ( or at least harmed) As for the longer duration? no thanks no more easy buttons. Would be ok with me to do it the other way and kill players when their con reach 0 though.