still worth it to keep critical rage?

[Relenthe]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

[Cedwin]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

17-20 x4

or

19-20 x6 with more Str, + vicious and greater vicious

[LargeMarge]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

I am in the same debate right now on what to do with my 18/2 barbarian rogue that still has critical rage. The one thing that is in the back of my head is the possibility that I could update my Sword of Shadows to epic. Would she dish out more dps with an Epic Sword of Shadows with critical rage, or would she be better as a TR pure barbarian with an Epic Sword of Shadows?

There are a lot of people that REALY believe in frenzied berserker, and think that if it is not a frenzied berserker...that that toon is a gimp.

I think what I could do is just roll up a new pure WF barbarian and keep my 18/2.

[HeavenlyCloud]

17-20 x4

or

19-20 x6 with more Str, + vicious and greater vicious

19-20 x7 ;)

[Strakeln]

Several disagree with me on this, but I say that someday, a weapon will come out that makes crit rage more powerful than FB, while using that weapon only, of course.

If you've held onto it this long, why stop now? Eventually your time will come. Wait for it.

[Cedwin]

Several disagree with me on this, but I say that someday, a weapon will come out that makes crit rage more powerful than FB, while using that weapon only, of course.

If you've held onto it this long, why stop now? Eventually your time will come. Wait for it.

An epic pick maybe?

[Missing_Minds]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

Until Occult Slayer and Ravager comes out so I can see all options for my Human barb, I'm keeping it. (if I were WF, I'd be waiting on the Juggernaut as well.)

Crit rage II is the best melee way to remove constructs and outsiders with smiters/banishers. That is the primary advantage you currently have.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I currently have one FB and one CR2 barb. I see the damage numbers on the FB barb and it is scarey how much he contributes. On the other hand the CR2 barb crits smaller, but more often, and isn't beating himself up (something that I always feel guilty about on non bosses on my FB Barb)

I think I'm going to keep one of each, at least for a little while longer. As someone else said, lets at least see if we get other interesting epic weapons and/or PrEs.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I think the epic SoS would qualify as an awesome weapon to use with crit rage:


Epic Sword of Shadow - (Weapon) +10 Great Sword (base dmg: 4d6 +10, crit: 18-20 / x4), Adamantine, Empty Colorless Augment Slot, Empty Red Augment Slot

Becomes 13-20/x4 with IC slash and crit rage 2.

[Cedwin]

I think the epic SoS would qualify as an awesome weapon to use with crit rage:



Becomes 13-20/x4 with IC slash and crit rage 2.

I think I would still prefer 15-20/x7, but maybe that's just me.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think the epic SoS would qualify as an awesome weapon to use with crit rage:

Becomes 13-20/x4 with IC slash and crit rage 2.

Sadly I expect many CR2 barbs are TWF spec'd. I suppose we could feat swap...but all that pretty GS...



I think I would still prefer 15-20/x7, but maybe that's just me.

Except that you don't get that. The FB crit bonus only applies on 19-20

[Aaxeyu]

Until Occult Slayer and Ravager comes out so I can see all options for my Human barb, I'm keeping it. (if I were WF, I'd be waiting on the Juggernaut as well.)

That doesn't make any sense.
FB is better than crit rage, I don't see what occult slayer and Ravager got to do with anything. If one of them happen to be better than FB you can just spec into that. Still no point to keep crit rage.

[LargeMarge]

ok...these are just some quick calculations. Maybe we could get someone to add in the STR dmg and vicious dmg to them.

base dmg: (4d6)+10 = (4 x 3.5)+10 = 23.6


dmg x (crit range) x (crit multi) = dmg

crit rage II: 23.6 x (8/20) x (4) = 37.76

frenz: [23.6 x (4/20) x (4)] + [23.6 x (2/20) x (7)] = 35.4


I think that the frenz would win out due to the fact that I have not added in the increased STR bonus or the vicious effects. I wish we could get someone who understands this a little better to cruch the numbers.

[Cedwin]

Except that you don't get that. The FB crit bonus only applies on 19-20

Wait, does it apply the crit bonus to the natural crit range of the weapon, or always on 19-20?

The description is very misleading.


While raging, the critical multiplier of all weapons you use is increased by an additional 1.

[Ulf]

Most in this thread have been comparing the +3 crit multiplier on 19-20 from FB with the old +2 crit range. If that is the only comparison, it's simple.

Ignoring weap burst effects, dmg ~ #noncrits + #crits*crit mod = #noncrits + (19 - #noncrits)*crit mod = x + (19 - x)*y.
For FB: dmg ~ x + (17 - x)*y + 2*(y + 3) = x - x*y + 17*y + 6
For crti range: dmg ~ (x - 2) + (19 - (x - 2))*y = x -x*y + 21*y - 2
So FB > CR is true if 4y > 8, or if weapon base crit multiplier: x2 or x3 FB adds more, x4 FB same as crit rage, a theoretical x5 base crit multiplier weapon would be better for a crit range babr vs a FB.

However, +3 to crit multiplier on a 19-20 is not the only bouns to FB, so even on a x4 weap, FB will be more dps.

Crit rage is better for weapon effects like banishing or puncturing. Take a TWF crit rage barb with IC pierce and a pair of banishing rapiers into coalesence its a cake walk. But for the most part crit weap effects are not anywhere as powerful as they once were.

edit: added some quick numbers to clarify.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Wait, does it apply the crit bonus to the natural crit range of the weapon, or always on 19-20?

The description is very misleading.

It is very misleading. The current description was correct on Lama...but then they pointed out that it was so overpowered 100% of FBs would be using falchons or rapiers. The fix, as I understand it, is that the crit bonus only applies on a crit with a natural roll of a 19-20... (so if you only crit on a 20 it only applies on a 20, but if you have a keen GA 19-20 works or if you have a falchon the bonus only applies to 19-20 rolls)

[Strakeln]

I think I would still prefer 15-20/x7, but maybe that's just me.

This is where a lot of the confusion stems from, I think.

It's 15-18 x4, 19-20 x7.


The description is very misleading.
Agreed.

[Missing_Minds]

That doesn't make any sense.
FB is better than crit rage, I don't see what occult slayer and Ravager got to do with anything. If one of them happen to be better than FB you can just spec into that. Still no point to keep crit rage.

I'm an original TWF barb before TWF barbs really came into their own. You eat up a **** load of feats to the point backing them out and then putting them in would have taken an ansine long time.
Then came the change to the dragonshards.
Then came the cost of a lesser.

$o it make$ perfect $ence why I'm waiting. Thi$ way I only have to change thing$ around once.

[Belwaar]

I currently have one FB and one CR2 barb. I see the damage numbers on the FB barb and it is scarey how much he contributes. On the other hand the CR2 barb crits smaller, but more often, and isn't beating himself up (something that I always feel guilty about on non bosses on my FB Barb)

I think I'm going to keep one of each, at least for a little while longer. As someone else said, lets at least see if we get other interesting epic weapons and/or PrEs.

Yup, my main is a CR2 Barb, and am working on my FB one...it would be REALLY hard to give up the CR2...not sure why, but it's more sentiment than anything...

[LargeMarge]

ok...these are just some quick calculations. Maybe we could get someone to add in the STR dmg and vicious dmg to them.

base dmg: (4d6)+10 = (4 x 3.5)+10 = 23.6


dmg x (crit range) x (crit multi) = dmg

crit rage II: 23.6 x (8/20) x (4) = 37.76

frenz: [23.6 x (4/20) x (4)] + [23.6 x (2/20) x (7)] = 35.4


I think that the frenz would win out due to the fact that I have not added in the increased STR bonus or the vicious effects. I wish we could get someone who understands this a little better to cruch the numbers.

ok...let me redo the math...

crit rage II: {23.6 x (11/20) x 1} + {23.6 x (8/20) x 4} = 50.74

frenz: {[23.6 x (13/20) x 1] + [23.6 x (4/20) x 4] + [23.6 x (2/20) x 7]} = 50.74

NOTES
- I did not include any of the extra bonuses to damage that the frenzied berserker gets (i.e. extra STR, glancing blows, vicious, and greater vicious)

CONCLUSION
- It looks like the Frenzied Berserker would produce WAY more DPS than a crit II barbarian.

- I will be TR-ing my old 18/2 Barbarian/Rogue to a WF Frenzied Berserker as soon as the new patch comes out. I will be sad to see this happen. I was hoping that I could hold on to the Crit Rage II for a while. I was thinking there had to be a reason why they got rid of Crit Rage. I guess my conspiracy theory was wrong.

[Aaxeyu]

$o it make$ perfect $ence why I'm waiting. Thi$ way I only have to change thing$ around once.

No, it still doesn't make sense. Why would you choose to be subpar now, only for the possibilty that in an unknown future there might come a PrE that maybe will require you to change a feat.

It's not as smart as you think it is.

[maddmatt70]

Several disagree with me on this, but I say that someday, a weapon will come out that makes crit rage more powerful than FB, while using that weapon only, of course.

If you've held onto it this long, why stop now? Eventually your time will come. Wait for it.

I have seen you post this before, but what kind of weapon would make crit rage 2 worthwhile? My guess is where you are going with this is the Epic Deathnip. I would presume the epic Deathnip could be a crit range of 17-20 X5. With crit rage that becomes 15-20 x5. Is that even better then FB with the same weapon? How good a weapon does this weapon have to be and how realistic is it for a weapon that good to be put in the game?

[Ulf]

I have seen you post this before, but what kind of weapon would make crit rage 2 worthwhile? My guess is where you are going with this is the Epic Deathnip. I would presume the epic Deathnip could be a crit range of 17-20 X5. With crit rage that becomes 15-20 x5. Is that even better then FB with the same weapon? How good a weapon does this weapon have to be and how realistic is it for a weapon that good to be put in the game?

As I showed earlier it takes at least a x5 base crit multiplier for CR2 to out dps the contribution of +3 crit multiplier on 19/20 of FB. First assume FB and CR2 have same damage mods, thus one can simply compare crit power of each.
Crit power = (#noncrits) + (#crits)*(crit multiplier)

If the theoretical x5 weap has a base crit of 20 (19-20 w/IC):
CR2=15+4*5=35, FB=17+2*8=33
DPS increase is (35-33)/33 = 6.06%

If the theoretical x5 weap has a base crit of 19-20 (17-20 w/IC) highly unlikely:
CR2=13+6*5=43, FB=15+2*5+2*8=41
DPS increase is (43-41)/41 = 4.88%

However, FB has more damage mods than CR2. The % increase in dps from vicious and str would only have to be ~6% for FB to win out even with a x5 base crit multiplier. So it would really take a x6 base crit multiplier for the CR2 to be the clear winner over a FB. As madd implied, it is extremely unlikely such a weapon will be introduced into the game.

Now, that said, a CR2 barb will definetly have a sizable advantage with crit effect weapons like banishing or puncturing or some new unintroduced crit "burst-like" effect.

[blitzschlag]

How good a weapon does this weapon have to be and how realistic is it for a weapon that good to be put in the game?

how realistic was/is the epic sos? and if you have the time/guts to grind for 2 epic deathnips once theyre there, theyre better be off the chart (as they were in the old days)...

[Missing_Minds]

No, it still doesn't make sense. Why would you choose to be subpar now, only for the possibilty that in an unknown future there might come a PrE that maybe will require you to change a feat.

It's not as smart as you think it is.

Sub par.. meaning I blow $$$ to make my character be a strain on healing when I end up in a lot of BYOH pugs with the possibility of blowing $$$ again when the other PrEs come out and I like them better? Very brilliant, aren't you.

Tell you what, you give me the $20 to $30 that I'm going to need for it and I'll do it. Put your money where your mouth is.

[maddmatt70]

how realistic was/is the epic sos? and if you have the time/guts to grind for 2 epic deathnips once theyre there, theyre better be off the chart (as they were in the old days)...

I actually think d12 damage crit range 17-20 x5 seeker +10 a red slot is realistic for the epic death nip. I still do not think that makes crit rage worthwhile in comparison to FB. As Ulf points out it needs to be a x6 weapon to be worthwhile.

[Aaxeyu]

Sub par.. meaning I blow $$$ to make my character be a strain on healing when I end up in a lot of BYOH pugs with the possibility of blowing $$$ again when the other PrEs come out and I like them better? Very brilliant, aren't you.

Tell you what, you give me the $20 to $30 that I'm going to need for it and I'll do it. Put your money where your mouth is.

So the true reason is that you can't afford a feat change? Then why the heck didn't you just say so in the first place...

Or is it somehow more important to have a good character in the future than to have a good character now?

[blitzschlag]

I actually think d12 damage crit range 17-20 x5 seeker +10 a red slot is realistic for the epic death nip. I still do not think that makes crit rage worthwhile in comparison to FB. As Ulf points out it needs to be a x6 weapon to be worthwhile.

well, we might see something like superior maiming for this one :)

[maddmatt70]

well, we might see something like superior maiming for this one :)

Yes forgot about the maining aspect and I concur superior maiming would be a possiblity.

[Missing_Minds]

So the true reason is that you can't afford a feat change? Then why the heck didn't you just say so in the first place...
Or is it somehow more important to have a good character in the future than to have a good character now?

Why spend $20 when I'd only have to spend $10.

[Aaxeyu]

Why spend $20 when I'd only have to spend $10. Do you really have that much money to throw around? I don't. So you really won't put up, but then again you can't shut up either.

As for good character. HA. Such an ego thinking that if you aren't a particular cookie cutter build you are worthless. Really pathetic. You're done now.

If you're going to spend $10 anyways (does a single feat respec at level 20 cost that much?!), why don't you just do it now and stick with FB?
FB is better than CR, and it's actually in the game too, unlike ravager and occult slayer. You would likely have time to grind a new feat respec by the time any of those PrEs comes to the live server.

Misinterpeting my post, putting words in my mouth and insulting me in the process, nice. Poor kitten.

[blitzschlag]

you guys never cease to amaze me :)

[Emili]

The weapon would have to have a significant x for a crit rage barb to produce more dps then the berzerker... I imagine deathnips would be pretty nice but really, not that nice.

I was very happy switching out of crit rage ... crit rage was nice while it was in style but times change... we're not on giant hold anymore, Crit rage barbs started loosing luster as alacrity started becoming more common and the latest trends turning towards epic and fortification mob yeilds moreso.

Out with the old in with the new... If you look back through the ideas of dps in this game you find that it's been ever shifting all along. Pally's and fighters were Higher DPS before gianthold (then nerfed back) and crit ragee introduced... tapering off as ascension chamber came about barbs became all the rage... then alacrity took hold as it became more common place, tempest +rams ... then back to barbs(FB) and even pallys(kotc) and fighter(kensai) got some boosting - I'd wagger that kotc and kensai would out DPS much the old crit rage barbs in much more content at the moment. That's what MMO's tend to when more options, content, equipment are introduced - they have to do it in order to place interest, make people play and farm for the next great thing.

[Strakeln]

I have seen you post this before, but what kind of weapon would make crit rage 2 worthwhile? My guess is where you are going with this is the Epic Deathnip. I would presume the epic Deathnip could be a crit range of 17-20 X5. With crit rage that becomes 15-20 x5. Is that even better then FB with the same weapon? How good a weapon does this weapon have to be and how realistic is it for a weapon that good to be put in the game?

Gotta think outside the box, matt. Don't try and work within the rules you know, rules change.

Consider it like this: what made crit rage so powerful? I'll give you a hint: FB alone would not have killed crit rage... other changes occurred that dealt the killing blow. There's nothing to say that effects that favor Crit Rage in similar ways won't be introduced in the future. I'd say it's more likely than not.

[maddmatt70]

Gotta think outside the box, matt. Don't try and work within the rules you know, rules change.

Consider it like this: what made crit rage so powerful? I'll give you a hint: FB alone would not have killed crit rage... other changes occurred that dealt the killing blow. There's nothing to say that effects that favor Crit Rage in similar ways won't be introduced in the future. I'd say it's more likely than not.

I disagree FB alone killed crit rage due to its superiority. If you are referring to stat damage nerfs I just shrug because stat damage has never worked on red names. The key in DDO has always been what works on red names.

[Oreg]

Until Occult Slayer and Ravager comes out so I can see all options for my Human barb, I'm keeping it. (if I were WF, I'd be waiting on the Juggernaut as well.)

Crit rage II is the best melee way to remove constructs and outsiders with smiters/banishers. That is the primary advantage you currently have.

Ditto on my twf barb. Waiting to see what Occult Slayer and Ravager bring and then ill TR or more likely LR to redistribute stats and feats to optimize. I know its inaccurate but I can't get beyond that FB is really a thf PrE.

[Strakeln]

I disagree FB alone killed crit rage due to its superiority. If you are referring to stat damage nerfs I just shrug because stat damage has never worked on red names. The key in DDO has always been what works on red names.

No it hasn't, that's just what Shade says. If it were true, why were so many barbs carrying w/p rapiers?

Furthermore, you're still inside that little box. I give you a very valid and real example, you respond with nothing more than a deflection, yet still refuse to consider effects that you haven't thought of. I mean, come on, they add new weapon effects **** near every update...

[maddmatt70]

No it hasn't, that's just what Shade says. If it were true, why were so many barbs carrying w/p rapiers?

Furthermore, you're still inside that little box. I give you a very valid and real example, you respond with nothing more than a deflection, yet still refuse to consider effects that you haven't thought of. I mean, come on, they add new weapon effects **** near every update...

If those effects work on red names and are better then dps or they make the trash more important to quest completion, but I would not hold my breath on either account. The reason why barbs carried w/p rapier was to kill trash quicker, but the reality is that were/are many ways to kill trash quickly and so I say shrug.

[Strakeln]

If those effects work on red names and are better then dps or they make the trash more important to quest completion, but I would not hold my breath on either account. The reason why barbs carried w/p rapier was to kill trash quicker, but the reality is that were/are many ways to kill trash quickly and so I say shrug.

90%-95% of your time is spent killing trash. I find it difficult to ignore.

[maddmatt70]

90%-95% of your time is spent killing trash. I find it difficult to ignore.

Mass hold monster, flesh to stone, stunning blow and or weighted, firewall, DBF, vorpals, dps, etc.. etc. we could go on and on.. There were always tons of alternatives to w/p to kill the mobs quickly and the threat level of mobs has always been for the most part pretty insiginificant.

The fastest way to complete a quest if we are talking about time efficiency is to ignore or not kill anything excpet what has to be killed. Do not kill anything but what you have to kill means basically you only have to kill red names anyway so I fail to really see your point.

[captain1z]

Several disagree with me on this, but I say that someday, a weapon will come out that makes crit rage more powerful than FB, while using that weapon only, of course.

If you've held onto it this long, why stop now? Eventually your time will come. Wait for it.

I have critical rage on my barbarian and my thinking is if you want Frenzy just build a new barb.

Its not something you can ever get back so keep it.

I also have the sword of shadows on my crit rage barb..... so I crit on a 13-20 for x3. I plan on crafting an epic version soon.

[Lerincho]

No, it still doesn't make sense. Why would you choose to be subpar now, only for the possibilty that in an unknown future there might come a PrE that maybe will require you to change a feat.

It's not as smart as you think it is.

subpar in your mind, however if Missing feels that the character is adequately producing in groups, Missing is VERY justified in the conclusion to wait.

[BattleCircle]

I play four different barb builds, a CR THF, CR TWF, Tempest barb, and an FB THF.

I am holding out on the CR builds to see what happens, whether a new weapon, or PrE.

Granted, those 380+ crits from FB are nice to see, but then again, so is critting on 15 or better. To me they almost but not quite equal. FB gets huge crits, but CR crits more often... apples and oranges.

I may eventually respec my CR THF, but not until I see what is down the road. The TWF? NO WAY. The tempest is just going to have to wait for a while.

[Strakeln]

Mass hold monster, flesh to stone, stunning blow and or weighted, firewall, DBF, vorpals, dps, etc.. etc. we could go on and on.. There were always tons of alternatives to w/p to kill the mobs quickly and the threat level of mobs has always been for the most part pretty insiginificant.

The fastest way to complete a quest if we are talking about time efficiency is to ignore or not kill anything excpet what has to be killed. Do not kill anything but what you have to kill means basically you only have to kill red names anyway so I fail to really see your point.

My point is that this is reality. You say you run past all the trash, but I've played with you quite a bit, and I've personally watched you spend 90-95% of your playtime killing trash, regardless of whether or not said trash had to be killed. So we can talk with all the BS that people do on the forums, or we can talk in terms of reality.

And reality says, 90-95% of your time will be spent on trash mobs. Neglecting that reality is a fatal mistake in your argument.

[maddmatt70]

My point is that this is reality. You say you run past all the trash, but I've played with you quite a bit, and I've personally watched you spend 90-95% of your playtime killing trash, regardless of whether or not said trash had to be killed. So we can talk with all the BS that people do on the forums, or we can talk in terms of reality.

And reality says, 90-95% of your time will be spent on trash mobs. Neglecting that reality is a fatal mistake in your argument.

I like to kill things sure and I never preferred the whole run to the firewall point gameplay. I had the displeasure of doing a fair amount of that back in mod 4 and it was very boring. Now epic is changing things alot because farming is absolutely about not killing things or at least killing a particular mob group with spellcasters and epic really really promotes farming so I kill alot less of the time these days. Raiding is also strangely enough less about killing things it seems like every raid we kite mobs or only kill mobs in your path to alleviate threat levels. The end game these days is so much not about killing things it is funny.

[LawstCawz]

I play four different barb builds, a CR THF, CR TWF, Tempest barb, and an FB THF.

I am holding out on the CR builds to see what happens, whether a new weapon, or PrE.

Granted, those 380+ crits from FB are nice to see, but then again, so is critting on 15 or better. To me they almost but not quite equal. FB gets huge crits, but CR crits more often... apples and oranges.

I may eventually respec my CR THF, but not until I see what is down the road. The TWF? NO WAY. The tempest is just going to have to wait for a while.

380 for a FB THF? Try 600+ easily with a ga. DPS is DPS, not different kinds of fruit. You can compare the two. Although, I agree on keeping the cr tempest as is since the FB pre is so heavily weighted on tier 3.

[Strakeln]

I like to kill things sure and I never preferred the whole run to the firewall point gameplay. I had the displeasure of doing a fair amount of that back in mod 4 and it was very boring. Now epic is changing things alot because farming is absolutely about not killing things or at least killing a particular mob group with spellcasters and epic really really promotes farming so I kill alot less of the time these days. Raiding is also strangely enough less about killing things it seems like every raid we kite mobs or only kill mobs in your path to alleviate threat levels. The end game these days is so much not about killing things it is funny.
Good points.

An addenda: epic may promote farming, but farming doesn't equal not killing, especially for epic. Just ask those first 7 hobgoblins in VoN 1 :D

[maddmatt70]

Good points.

An addenda: epic may promote farming, but farming doesn't equal not killing, especially for epic. Just ask those first 7 hobgoblins in VoN 1 :D

Tomorrow it will be about bringing your spellcaster in there to do the farming i.e. killing. Those guys will get beefed up certainly..

[Strakeln]

Tomorrow it will be about bringing your spellcaster in there to do the farming i.e. killing. Those guys will get beefed up certainly..

Agreed... thankfully, farming the entire quest with a caster is about as easy as it gets... just takes longer than those 1st 7.

[blitzschlag]

I have critical rage on my barbarian and my thinking is if you want Frenzy just build a new barb.

Its not something you can ever get back so keep it.

I also have the sword of shadows on my crit rage barb..... so I crit on a 13-20 for x3. I plan on crafting an epic version soon.

epic SoS does produce the exact same damage/hit with crit rage II as with fbIII. not counting the vicous damage here. that brings fbIII ahead again.

there really has to be something like superior maiming/superior bursts to bring crit rage up front again in terms of damage done (dps or per hit).

[TechNoFear]

nvm

[BattleCircle]

380 for a FB THF? Try 600+ easily with a ga. DPS is DPS, not different kinds of fruit. You can compare the two. Although, I agree on keeping the cr tempest as is since the FB pre is so heavily weighted on tier 3.

The FB is on Cannith lvl 18 and only burst weapons, the 380+ is against harry with just a +3 holy burst... so not all that bad. No tomes nothing that hasn't dropped for that toon.

My CR on the other hand gets tons of crits, plus the occasional lightning strike, so yeah. Apples and oranges.