"Use your stuff for me" - a discussion

[Mosch]

Recently, in prison of the planes, I had a short arguement. A pretty stupid one, too.

Basically, after the quest started and I had buffed people up with Blur and Greater Heroism (I play a wizard, obviously), someone demanded Jump to be cast on him. I asked why, because I could not see the need for it in PoP - this was obviously wrong, as I was told that I should stop asking and cast the spell. The whole way he talked to me did not sit well with me, so I got sarcastic, was told I had an attitude problem and was arrogant and this was probably my first character, also he had a higher kill count than me and should know better and basically the situation escalated until some part of our brains remembered that we were a) not 3 years old and b) just playing a game and made us stop our stupid quarrel. And yes, I did cast jump on him in the end and even gave him a jump clickie I found ;)

Now the main problem with me was a) I did not immediatly cast jump after being asked for it and b) I did not keep haste up all the time (to be honest, I rarely used it on this quest).
I can understand that people want to be hasted all the time (it's a great spell, after all), but on the other hand I sometimes like to have fun with my spell points and I honestly don't think that PoP on normal is a great deal of trouble for level 14 characters (and, indeed, we finished the quest with very few problems).
The jump thing, on the other hand, hints to a different idea: The idea that there are things casters just do when asked for. Similar things happened to a cleric, who was told to cast Mass Heal to top the group off and refused. Both times the other player felt entitled to some part of the caster's ressources. In a limited sense I agree with it: I expect a cleric to heal me. Not necessarily keep me at 100%, but keep me alive in case I make a mistake and attract too much aggro, or maybe I just lag into a mob. On the other hand, I feel obligated to Blur everyone, just because it is so very useful, and probably also GH the group, especially if there's no bard.

BUT: What about the underlying problem? Do you think everyone in the party is entitled to the ressources of everyone else? Or should you just bring your own **** heals/jump pots/rage clickies/whatever and if you get healed by cleric/buffed by the wizard/shouted at by the barbarian it's a bonus? What if someone is blind and someone else has a potion while the blinded player has not? Where does self suffiency end?
I honestly don't know for sure what I would say.

[ArichValtrahn]

The prevailing opinion around here is that you should be self-sufficient. If you require jump you should have a means to provide it to yourself.

Of course, this is also a team game so you should be willing to help one another.

Neither of those addresses a bad attitude on the part of the jump requester, though.

[stainer]

Did you ever get why he wanted jump?

[Mosch]

When we cooled down, he explained to me that he wanted jump so he could kite the mobs.

[Anderei]

In PoP I would cast at least a short haste in every cell ('cept the beholders o'course) short before you open and for the endfight, since you want to kill these mini-bosses ASAP and with at least semi-decent DPS this does more than a firewall. That are how many hastes in total? 6? 8? Don't know, but that ones should really be done IMHO. If you wouldn't want to do that also, I too would argue about your attitude :) I usually deal buffs out without arguing with my bard when I'm asked for it, except its really stupid like before a beholder fight, otherwise a short answer "cause I want to kite", from him would have stoped the argument early.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

With an outlook like that, I'd have cast greater dispell on him instead and removed my original buffs.


When we cooled down, he explained to me that he wanted jump so he could kite the mobs.

Well there is reason enough not to cast it. That's just annoying when people do that.

[Phidius]

With as many mobs that chain Greater Dispel, I find that you really need to be able to provide for yourself if there's a particular buff you need to play the game.

Kite the mobs? What class was he playing that he couldn't cast it himself, yet still feel the need to kite?

[Samadhi]

Jump can be phenomenally useful for a variety of in-game combat twitchness - so I can understand the benefit of it even though, for myself, I would never bother to ask for it because I'm too lazy to care.

That being said, if at level 14 you don't have enough mana to keep the group hasted through the entire quest - that is a significant issue that I would look into. What are you spending mana on? Did you just give everyone 28 minute blurs/GH's that they really didn't need to begin with?

I rarely expect wizards to carry any specific buffs. But if I was not being kept hasted, I can guarantee that I wouldn't be grouping with you again.

[Cyr]

There is 'my stuff' discussion here. Your playing an arcane. Part of your role in party is to cast haste. If people are not hasted dps goes down. If your not keeping the party hasted then you will get blacklisted from groups. There is no argument about this. It's like a caster who goes into wiz king without firewall. It shows a gross misunderstanding of game dynamics.

Jump on the other hand is not a critical buff in PoP. There is a reason to cast it however as it is useful in maneuvering if you are good at doing it. This is annoying if they want to kite mobs with it however, unless they are an arcane or divine using persistent aoe damage spells.

As for self sufficiency arguments they are nonsense in this context. It is never more efficient for others to buff haste and it is only more efficient for jump if they are level 18+ which if your doing PoP I'm guessing they were not.

[Zenako]

Ignoring the stuff about wizards for a moment. Was the cleric who got asked to cast mass "Heal" going around and topping off each character with a single target spell like CURE serious Wounds, or was he also casting spells like Cure LIght WOunds MASS, that would get everyone at once for few spell points? It is also possible that the cleric in question was using a CSW wand to top people off and saving his SPELL points for battle triage instead.

Would have been interesting to hear the whole story on that one too. (PS The MASS Heal Spell is not even close to being available for a 14th level cleric...and you can usually get more bang for the buck from lower level healing that gets Potency or Devotion pumped (or Effiecany(sp) Pots).

As for the Haste mindset. It can be like a drug to many. They get so used to having their characters zoom about on the spell, that any time they are not hasted, they feel like they are stuck in Solid Fog. The truth is that for many battles, the advantage is almost meaningless at those levels, since mobs live so short a time, that the difference might only be them getting an extra swing or two before dying anyway. In quests where DPS is the only solution, then yes, Haste is an extremely valuable addition, almost the best thing you can do. But in battles or areas where special effects rule (like banishing or disrupting), nothing lives long enough to make a lot of difference. With characters in the level 14 range, I am hoping that at least a few had the right tools for the job. If they did not, then yes, it resorts to a DPS beatdown and once again haste rules, as it does for most boss battles, since they are DPS beatdowns.

[Zenako]

As for self sufficiency arguments they are nonsense in this context. It is never more efficient for others to buff haste and it is only more efficient for jump if they are level 18+ which if your doing PoP I'm guessing they were not.

Why the 18+ cutoff? Jump spell gains its maximum effect at level 11 for a +30 boost.

Curious?

[Strakeln]

Recently, in prison of the planes, I had a short arguement. A pretty stupid one, too.

Basically, after the quest started and I had buffed people up with Blur and Greater Heroism (I play a wizard, obviously), someone demanded Jump to be cast on him. I asked why, because I could not see the need for it in PoP - this was obviously wrong, as I was told that I should stop asking and cast the spell. The whole way he talked to me did not sit well with me, so I got sarcastic, was told I had an attitude problem and was arrogant and this was probably my first character, also he had a higher kill count than me and should know better and basically the situation escalated until some part of our brains remembered that we were a) not 3 years old and b) just playing a game and made us stop our stupid quarrel. And yes, I did cast jump on him in the end and even gave him a jump clickie I found ;)

Now the main problem with me was a) I did not immediatly cast jump after being asked for it and b) I did not keep haste up all the time (to be honest, I rarely used it on this quest).
I can understand that people want to be hasted all the time (it's a great spell, after all), but on the other hand I sometimes like to have fun with my spell points and I honestly don't think that PoP on normal is a great deal of trouble for level 14 characters (and, indeed, we finished the quest with very few problems).
The jump thing, on the other hand, hints to a different idea: The idea that there are things casters just do when asked for. Similar things happened to a cleric, who was told to cast Mass Heal to top the group off and refused. Both times the other player felt entitled to some part of the caster's ressources. In a limited sense I agree with it: I expect a cleric to heal me. Not necessarily keep me at 100%, but keep me alive in case I make a mistake and attract too much aggro, or maybe I just lag into a mob. On the other hand, I feel obligated to Blur everyone, just because it is so very useful, and probably also GH the group, especially if there's no bard.

BUT: What about the underlying problem? Do you think everyone in the party is entitled to the ressources of everyone else? Or should you just bring your own **** heals/jump pots/rage clickies/whatever and if you get healed by cleric/buffed by the wizard/shouted at by the barbarian it's a bonus? What if someone is blind and someone else has a potion while the blinded player has not? Where does self suffiency end?
I honestly don't know for sure what I would say.
The haste argument has been beaten to death. Just keep everyone hasted... all other arguments aside, it's more fun to move faster. As you said, we're here to play a game and have fun, let's maximize the fun.

The jump question is a little bit different. Until certain items are found, jump is one thing that no character can provide themselves with. Even haste is not like this - haste potions are short in duration, but you can still provide the same effect as caster haste. Jump potions are not only short in duration, they are only 1/3rd as effective! Now, once you can get to Amarath, a high-level jump clickie becomes available. There's no excuse for those who ask for jump after they've completed ToD a few times... **** it grinds my gears when someone (say, a cleric) asks for jump in ToD... then at the end of part 2, I offer them Morah's belt (the jump clickie) free of charge and they say no. Those players don't get jump anymore, not from me.

As far as why jump is necessary in every quest: in DDO, twitch skills allow one to avoid attacks. In DDO, twitching is not limited to strafing... one may twitch vertically as well.

[Samadhi]

Why the 18+ cutoff? Jump spell gains its maximum effect at level 11 for a +30 boost.

Curious?

I am guessing he is referring to the jump clickie from shavarath that is ML 18.

[Phidius]

Why the 18+ cutoff? Jump spell gains its maximum effect at level 11 for a +30 boost.

Curious?

There's a belt with caster level 15 jump clickies, but it's minimum level 18.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/MorahsBelt.jpg

[Zenako]

I am guessing he is referring to the jump clickie from shavarath that is ML 18.

Perhaps, I know have some of those, and use them before SP (if I remember to) on the characters that happen to have them (like one of my rangers...)

Just the level 18 reference was a little oblique and off tangent...especially for players still working thru PotP.

[Missing_Minds]

When we cooled down, he explained to me that he wanted jump so he could kite the mobs.

whytf do you bother kiting mobs in PoP? Maybe in the end fight possibly, but not at any point in the rest of the quest.

[Strakeln]

Why the 18+ cutoff? Jump spell gains its maximum effect at level 11 for a +30 boost.
I think he was saying that it's never more efficient for players to self-buff (drink potions) haste (as they'd be doing it every 30 seconds), and it is not more efficient for them to self-buff jump prior to level 18 or so (as they likely won't have Morah's belt before lvl 18, and jump potions are inefficient).

[Kirachan]

Ignoring the stuff about wizards for a moment. Was the cleric who got asked to cast mass "Heal" going around and topping off each character with a single target spell like CURE serious Wounds, or was he also casting spells like Cure LIght WOunds MASS, that would get everyone at once for few spell points? It is also possible that the cleric in question was using a CSW wand to top people off and saving his SPELL points for battle triage instead.

Would have been interesting to hear the whole story on that one too. (PS The MASS Heal Spell is not even close to being available for a 14th level cleric...and you can usually get more bang for the buck from lower level healing that gets Potency or Devotion pumped (or Effiecany(sp) Pots).


That cleric was me.
Well, of our party about 3 people where down to about 3/4 of their health. I don't usually top off at all between fights, it's just much more cost-effective to wait till they get some more damage and throw in a bigger cure.
Now, that one guy asked for a mass heal and I wasn't really thinking about it and told him I didn't have that yet. He began complaining about my "wisecracking" and got a bit insulting. Apparently he just wanted any mass cure, but really, I didn't thought it necessary, and after his comment even less so.

[biggin]

As a cleric, I usually just do normal buffs and throw out the requested ones as need be. Sometimes it's ridiculous, sometimes it isn't. Either way, I find it's easier to just humor people at the beginning and ridicule them later.

[Anderei]

As a cleric, I usually just do normal buffs and throw out the requested ones as need be. Sometimes it's ridiculous, sometimes it isn't. Either way, I find it's easier to just humor people at the beginning and ridicule them later.

Thats too true, sometimes I just hit that low-lvl waterbreathing clicky ring just for the fun of it, in a quest where there is nooo water whereever, so everbody has that space helmet for a minute. Especially on my figther or rogue, when people asking ***? I say, well I too wanted to feel to be contributing to the party in the buffing phase :)

[Zenako]

That cleric was me.
Well, of our party about 3 people where down to about 3/4 of their health. I don't usually top off at all between fights, it's just much more cost-effective to wait till they get some more damage and throw in a bigger cure.
Now, that one guy asked for a mass heal and I wasn't really thinking about it and told him I didn't have that yet. He began complaining about my "wisecracking" and got a bit insulting. Apparently he just wanted any mass cure, but really, I didn't thought it necessary, and after his comment even less so.

Cool.... quite a few players who never touch/play a healing class character are often somewhat clueless about things from what I have seen. One reason I see so much self sufficiency in guilds is that I would guess a lot of long time guilded players have rosters of characters which include at least one healer among them (perhaps not player much, but at least enough to get a feel of the class).

As you have learned, topping off is an excellent way to waste SP, (which is why I was wondering about CSW wands being used). It can sometimes be amusing seeing how low you can sustain the party at and not lose anyone (especially amongst friends). (Quicken helps you to cut it even closer...:)).

[Riorik]

Would have been interesting to hear the whole story on that one too.

Same.

As a cleric, it's my job, not yours, to manage my contribution to the party/raid. I can think of many reasons and situations where I would always versus when I wouldn't top off the party. Factors that play into this would be quest knowledge, perception of how the party is doing, how they're doing (are they known solid players or unknown puggers) and do they seem to be self sufficient or not.

Absolutely in a situation where I know a shrine is close, the party is handling everything well, spell points are tight (this one usually isn't a factor if other things are going well) and I know that although they're at 2/3rds hit points, it still means they have 300+...I might not top them off.

[Anderei]

The cleric thing is going a little of topic, but I usually top off with wands, especially since I leveled a hagglebot, hardly a reason not to do so (except the party really runs smooth and easy), (I do so ever since I dropped dead with -10 health with a desintegrate, when I was "85% of health is good enough"). Compared by the amounts of money you have with a capped character hardly a reason not to have a few CSW wands with you. And if you are bored while waiting for something, you might even take out the Ethernal CMW (or as I call it, the magic blessing of topping) just to pester people :) I love it when they go "Ah, stop doing that".

[Uska]

Your spell points your rules, in pop I just try to keep the group hasted while clearing and then just before they start the rooms I dont worry about it to much while clearing as I have made it clear that all hastes will be centered on me so if your haste is running out head for me. Now I will run forward if they tank is fighting to catch him in the center of effect.


ITs my sp and I like to run fast as well.

[Danmor]

My main characters are healers (FvS and Cleric) so I'm often asked for "remove this, remove that" spells.
This is something that I don't really like, because my FvS doesn't have all those spells prepped all the time. Besides, I don't see why I have to buy the remove pots/wands to use them on a ranger that can use wands...
On the other hand, helping people out helps the party.

In essence, I think it's a two-sided thing. If it's necessary/useful I'll share resources. But if I feel something's not warranted I'll say so.

[Mosch]

As for the questions: He was a favoured Soul specced for offensive casting, as far as I could tell from the blade barriers. I'm not going to name any names and please don't rag on the guy, we two made up and there's no need to spike the ball, so to speak.
My mana issues... there aren't really any. I have about 1200 Sp at level 14, which is usually enough. I play very conservatively, maybe even too much so, and to be honest I could have easily kept the group hasted through the entire quest, but this quest is quite easy, the group was very powerful and I like playing around, so I just did not bother, especially not after I felt I was being talked down to (And this is really the thing here. I was treated like an idiot and in turn I ignored any spell requests, no matter if they were useful or not.).

[hermespan]

There is 'my stuff' discussion here. Your playing an arcane. Part of your role in party is to cast haste. If people are not hasted dps goes down. If your not keeping the party hasted then you will get blacklisted from groups. There is no argument about this. It's like a caster who goes into wiz king without firewall. It shows a gross misunderstanding of game dynamics.

Jump on the other hand is not a critical buff in PoP. There is a reason to cast it however as it is useful in maneuvering if you are good at doing it. This is annoying if they want to kite mobs with it however, unless they are an arcane or divine using persistent aoe damage spells.

As for self sufficiency arguments they are nonsense in this context. It is never more efficient for others to buff haste and it is only more efficient for jump if they are level 18+ which if your doing PoP I'm guessing they were not.

bards can caste haste too. In the absence of a bard, it's the arcane's job. I do agree with the firewall in wiz king sentiment. That's just ********. It also adds +1 dodge bonus to ac and saves, in addition to the 15% attack speed increase, so it has a compound benefit.

As well if you hear "haste on [char name] in 5...4...3...2...1" you missed it. I shouldn't need to say anything in the first place. I'm not casting it again for 3.5 minutes. I can do more DPS with one firewall than you'll gain with those SP I'm wasting. People that don't gravitate to the caster when their haste is running down between fights are just plain annoying.

You have the same timer I do, use it!

[Turgar]

If I am running quests for xp I am usually zerging as hard and fast as I can. If a healer doesn't do their job well, or an arcane cant maintain something as simple as a haste the party reforms after that quest, and they dont get in to the next one. There is no conversation, no arguments, just no reinvite.
That actually happened in POP last month, and the arcane sent me a tell asking what they did wrong. I said not enough haste, and that I was replacing them with someone who could keep the party hasted. He apologised, and got a reinvite, and did fine after that. Sometimes an arcane needs a reminder that they are good for nothing in that level range if they cant keep haste on, and drop firewalls where needed.
If people are dying, and a healer is to blame, (if you are taking too much dps and need to back off, yet dont, its not the healers fault if you die.) they will get replaced at earliest convenience. I have no problem running gianthold without a healer in the party, but if you are taking a dps spot in the group, do your job or get dropped before we begin the next quest. A healer who doesnt heal, or an arcane who wont haste is no better than a monk that wont attack anything. The person doing that is a piker, and a liability that slows down the xp per hour of the party.

[transtemporal]

Do you think everyone in the party is entitled to the ressources of everyone else?

In as far as its reasonable and prudent for that quest and difficulty. For most quests and difficulties, you need a lot less buffs than people think. Its especially funny when people for gh in shavarath quests for example.

[kitselli]

I'm with Missing Minds...
As a level 14 party, who needs to kite mobs in PoP; let alone jump kite them!!??
I've been in some pretty bads groups in there... near misses, close calls.
But PoP content is not overly challenging to where you have to kite mobs around. Even for undergeared toons (me), good teamwork always prevails.

So for this person demanding a jump to be cast upon him, that's just dumb...IMHO...
Kit

[Turgar]

I think jump is pretty pointless in a lot of quests, however if a player gets wedged in by mobs (this shouldnt happen in pop) they are going to need intense healing if they cant jump out. My take is that your resources are yours, until you join a party. If your party is asking you to squander your resources in a stupid way, then leave.

[Cyr]

Why the 18+ cutoff? Jump spell gains its maximum effect at level 11 for a +30 boost.

Curious?

Simple. There is only one jump clickie in the game that I can recall that has a duration longer then one minute and that comes on a ToD belt (ML 18). Scrolls are 1 minute also. Either way one minute buffs are horrible to use in dungeons as they kill dps. I kind of assume that the guy asking for the buff was not a wizard/sorc/6+ ranger...otherwise that's like a cleric saying why aren't you healing me all the time.

[Lorz]

Actually if you have to jump in Pop...just reroll.

Seriously, you want the buff..ask nicely..if i say no...deal with it. Getting upset does not help your case.

Remember..you only think i need you to complete the quest....chances are I know i dont.

[Anneliese]

What goes around, comes around. This usually works well in DDO.

[Arlith]

Basically, after the quest started and I had buffed people up with Blur and Greater Heroism (I play a wizard, obviously), someone demanded Jump to be cast on him. I asked why, because I could not see the need for it in PoP - this was obviously wrong, as I was told that I should stop asking and cast the spell.

Generally my casters will give out as many buffs as people want. However, in this situation the proper reponse is to tell the person you do not have jump and then promptly cast it on yourself. Deny all accusations that you have the spell. If he really ****es you off, tell him you do not have the spell then cast it on everyone in the party but him. This is not about self-sufficiency or buffing, this is dealing with a jack ass and is TOTALLY separate from dealing with people being prepared or dealing with what buffs should or should not be handed out.

[Rasczak]

whytf do you bother kiting mobs in PoP? Maybe in the end fight possibly, but not at any point in the rest of the quest.

What I want to know...kiting mobs is only for certain situations. Kiting every mob in every situations is just annoying, plus I dare the kiter to try take aggro off me :P

End of the day, everyone plays the way they want to so they can enjoy their time. I may ask for a buff now and then because an extended version is better than a clickie but honestly anyone demanding buffs is either really new or really lazy.

Getting into an argument over jump seems like the pointless and childish drivel I see starting to creep into my groups. I may need to stop Pugging soon and go casual.....coz I'm hardcore and solo everything :p

Only advice I can offer is, a well buffed party is usually more successful when conserving spell points and resources than an unbuffed party, a well buffed party is also an arrogant party that will die and point fingers :D You either offer yourself up for buffs or you don't, being a team effort doesn't it stand to reason that you protect your party members within reason?

[Memnir]

This is exactly why I carry Grease clickies.

[Gremmlynn]

For me, I'll cast what buffs I feel are necessary and appreciate what buffs I get from others. I expect the healer to keep me alive till the end of a fight, but top off with potions/wands when it's over and I have the time.

I will say I'm not a big haste fan as it seems to allow to many to move faster than they can think, which I find annoying.

[AbsynthMinded]

If asked politely I never flinch at casting anything anyone wants or needs. Except when there is an over ridding factor not obvious, like a need to conserve points, or a frequent dispelling effect like beholders.

For myself, My cleric does not have a lot of jump effect clickies or potions nor a good jump skill + item, so I ask for jump if it is available all the time or always hit House P on the way to whatever. Because without it I can hardly hop over pebbles, let alone a group of mobs or any serious obstacles.

[Grimgore]

I will give any buff that someone requests, provided I have it mem'd. All they have to say is please. No please; no spell. Some people ask for spells that I cannot provide (a lot more recently then before) like Fire Shield or just plain Shield (self only) or want to be constantly buffed with stone skin. Some people need to be educated is all and some have the misconception that we as casters (or healers) have one function and one function only: to make their game experience better.

[Shade]

Why didn't you just solo pop then?

You could have had all the "fun" you wanted with your spell points then. No one to request anything of you, so you can do as few or many buffs as you desire.

The answer is: It's a group game.

You sign up for a group, you should do your best to work with the group in every possible way. Fufilling requests of your group members is certainly included.

If you in turn made a request of him, are you so sure he would deny it?

Someone requests a buff and you should give it to them. If you must question why, that's fine. But be a team player and at least do so after you've given it. It's 10 mana, whatever amount of "fun" that takes away from yourself is pretty silly.

As to a good reason why, in any quest, regardless of class:
Any skilled player understand that enemy attacks can be avoided by jumping, a higher jump skill can help allot with that.

[Bacab]

My main characters are healers (FvS and Cleric) so I'm often asked for "remove this, remove that" spells.
This is something that I don't really like, because my FvS doesn't have all those spells prepped all the time. Besides, I don't see why I have to buy the remove pots/wands to use them on a ranger that can use wands...
On the other hand, helping people out helps the party.

In essence, I think it's a two-sided thing. If it's necessary/useful I'll share resources. But if I feel something's not warranted I'll say so.

I get upset at this also...I play FvS mainly and now a BRD...just because I can use a wand (FvS and BRD have limited spells) does'nt mean I have to keep fixing everyone with my plat. I have been in a party with a Barb doing the part/chain 2 of Necro who like every 45 sec was asking for "restore plz" "remove disease plz" "I am poisoned." Then like a week later I end up in Wiz-King with this joker and I told him/everyone; "Make sure you have a Disease Immunity Item and a Proof of Poison Item." Of course he does'nt and the whole quest he's whining..."my STR and CHR are going down...please restore...blah blah blah."

I don't mind topping people off or cure-bombing mid combat, but when people zerg through traps as the ROG is trying to disarm it and just zerg into a room full of mobs and get torn apart. I do not feel it is my "job" to babysit, nanny-bot or whatever you want to call it.

Also as Uska said...MY SP...I will ration it out. Though on quest I am unfamiliar with; I will ask people "how far until next shrine?"

EDIT: I do try to provide proper buffs but some melees want every freaking buff possible given to them...like all the resist and deathward and FoM and etc etc when its not needed.

[Kyrn]

Simple. There is only one jump clickie in the game that I can recall that has a duration longer then one minute and that comes on a ToD belt (ML 18). Scrolls are 1 minute also. Either way one minute buffs are horrible to use in dungeons as they kill dps. I kind of assume that the guy asking for the buff was not a wizard/sorc/6+ ranger...otherwise that's like a cleric saying why aren't you healing me all the time.

Just to note that not all short-duration buffs suck. If they did, no one would ever use divine power clickies, or action boosts...

[Kirachan]

You sign up for a group, you should do your best to work with the group in every possible way. Fufilling requests of your group members is certainly included.

If you in turn made a request of him, are you so sure he would deny it?

Someone requests a buff and you should give it to them. If you must question why, that's fine. But be a team player and at least do so after you've given it. It's 10 mana, whatever amount of "fun" that takes away from yourself is pretty silly.

As always, it's the way the request is made. If someone asks nicely I don't mind to top someone off, or give out an unneeded buff.
But if they act as if it's their prerogative to get any buff from me they ask for simply because I happen to be a cleric then I will not humor them. Cause then it's not about team play any more, then they expect me to be their subordinate. And that doesn't count as fun for me at all.

[Spisey]

With an outlook like that, I'd have cast greater dispell on him instead and removed my original buffs.



Well there is reason enough not to cast it. That's just annoying when people do that.


/signed! :D

And this is a reminder why web is your friend! No kiting! :D

That and **** off clerics / fvs with crit bb's going! :p

[Mosch]

Why didn't you just solo pop then?

I'm sure you're aware of that, but the answer is threefold: a)Because it's impossible - someone needs to pull the switches, b)Because I doubt that I could solo the rooms with reasonable resource expenditure and c)Because playing with other people is fun. And sometimes you even get stories to tell or meet great new people.

And if I may reiterate: There was no request, there was a demand. And if I demanded something from another player I wouldn't expect my demand to be fulfilled. Imagine the situation reversed: "Hey, Favoured Soul, heal me already!" - "OK, but you only lost 5HP. Why do you need to be healed?" - "Just shut up and do as I say, stop asking why! Man, you're an idiot, probably on your first character and think you're jesus!"
This is not a request. This is being a demanding git, especially if you can put the right spin on it via the voice chat. We later stopped our arguing and he asked me politely for buffs, which is absolutely no problem. The way I see it, everything you do for me is a favor. Sometimes it's a favor I expect (a bard is probably going to use his bard song), but it is not something I am entitled to.

Basically what it boils down to is respect. I want you to respect me (which is quite easy: If you're not screaming obscenities about my mother the second you join the party you usually pass the test ;)) and in turn I respect you and consider your requests with a positive attitude. That's not unreasonable, is it?

[Strakeln]

a)Because it's impossible - someone needs to pull the switches
So you know, there are very few quests that cannot be solo'd.

It's very easy to have hirelings pull the switches. And many, many, many people have learned how to pull the levers and get in the room without help from a hireling (get as close as possible to where the wall will drop, pull the lever, and dash in)