Diplomacy

[suszterpatt]

This has been bugging me lately, but yesterday I got knocked into full-on nerd rage mode. I understand that diplo has been nerfed somewhat so that there's now a delay between the skill check and the enemy finding another target. But quite frequently, it seems that my targets don't lose aggro at all, even after a successful check and other targets around.

Notably, I was running Mired in Kobolds on elite yesterday, and after managing to somehow draw aggro on the elder dragon, it took like 10-15 successful diplo checks until it finally stopped attacking me. Basically all I was doing is diplo->back up->hide->sneak around, and it was like the other party members didn't even exist. This has been happening with all sorts of mobs for a while now, what gives?

[knightgf]

Its like the game never was ment to handle diplomacy...just how the game was never ment to handle the ice ramps in the Risia ice games...

But at least they work...somewhat.

One thing I find, be next to the unlucky noob who takes the punishment when you use the diplomacy skill. It usually tends to work better when you do so.

[platonicx]

I found that after update 3 the diplo skill almost NEVER work. And as a rogue it ****es me off. before then there was a delay but it worked. ...Update 3>>>> Diplo near the party>> succes >> wait 30 seconds >>> mobs beating me

[suszterpatt]

I found that after update 3 the diplo skill almost NEVER work. And as a rogue it ****es me off. before then there was a delay but it worked. ...Update 3>>>> Diplo near the party>> succes >> wait 30 seconds >>> mobs beating meYep, this has been my experience as well with my rogue. I'm not even sure that in the example above it was a diplo check that finally did the trick against the dragon and not another party member dealing enough damage.

[platonicx]

Soon my rogue will TR and i am not quite sure if i will take diplo again. I mean before it was crucial in many cases especially on lower levels. This is most crucial for rogues. Other classes wont find a use for the skill other then safe their life but as a rogue i was using it to get my damage back. I am a lazy person. Can someone go thru the update 3 release notes and find anything about diplomacy or hate building up? I mean aggro in general :)

[TheKaige]

I think it would work out better if they made it so that diplomacy becomes a passive skill where each rank = .25% less hatred generation. (Like Haggle) Diplomacy never worked well before, and the point of anti-hatred skills is generally to stop them from hitting you in the first place.

[Mockduck]

I don't have a long history of using Diplomacy, but recently began using it on my now level 6 pure Rogue on Orien. Other than the "action boost"-style delay it's been quite helpful. I've seen it "work" a bunch and have done a lot more damage because of it. That said, no idea how it will fare against a dragon, and not sure how much better it was in the past.

[Rice]

Don't complain about aggro until you're a caster. We get automatic aggro for standing within 1 mile of the mob.

[wamjratl1]

I think it would work out better if they made it so that diplomacy becomes a passive skill where each rank = .25% less hatred generation. (Like Haggle) Diplomacy never worked well before, and the point of anti-hatred skills is generally to stop them from hitting you in the first place.

Negative. There is an enhancement for rogues that already does that. Diplomacy should work like it always has (which was awesome, btw, if you had enough points in it).



Question to the OP and others who have reported problem to Diplomacy: What level is your character and how high is your Diplo? Do you have items, buffs, etc. that would make the DC higher? Just curious cuz I have not noticed any changes but haven't used it much lately (been soloing on my rogue or in groups where aggro isn't a problem).

[Qzipoun]

I found that after update 3 the diplo skill almost NEVER work. And as a rogue it ****es me off. before then there was a delay but it worked. ...Update 3>>>> Diplo near the party>> succes >> wait 30 seconds >>> mobs beating me

That' how diplo IS supposed to work. Diplo is not a permanent effect, it will, on a successful roll, make vulnerable mobs ignore you for a very short period if time. Just like intimidate, it only lasts a few seconds, more like 3-5, no where close to 30.

Full disclosure: I haven't used diplo in over a year (used it extensively before) so things could have changed but not from the looks of the quoted post.

And to the op, you sure you have a good enough diplo to handle the dragon?

Diplo is a great skill to avoid aggro and should remain active since it allows it to be used in slot more situations (ie pull mob by them seeing you then shedding aggro when needed, no dmg or dmg reduction needed)

[suszterpatt]

Question to the OP and others who have reported problem to Diplomacy: What level is your character and how high is your Diplo? Do you have items, buffs, etc. that would make the DC higher? Just curious cuz I have not noticed any changes but haven't used it much lately (been soloing on my rogue or in groups where aggro isn't a problem).Rogue 18/Ranger 2, diplo is 23 base -1 cha mod + 16 items = 38 total unbuffed. And yes, I was keeping an eye on the rolls, and succeeded numerous times. Yellow icon above the dragon's head and all.

[wamjratl1]

Rogue 18/Ranger 2, diplo is 23 base -1 cha mod + 16 items = 38 total unbuffed. And yes, I was keeping an eye on the rolls, and succeeded numerous times. Yellow icon above the dragon's head and all.

Hmmm. I don't know the quest but here's some thing to look at (you prob already know them but anyway...):

Was the dragon coming after you alone or using an AOE attack? Is it a named dragon? Was anyone else diploing or intimidating (they can screw with each other)? Were folks close enough to you to shed aggro onto them? Was anyone else attacking the dragon (if no one else has attacked it, it's harder to shed aggro)? Just some thoughts...

Also, this is the first I have heard about a Diplo nerf. Can anyone point me to any other info about it? As Qzipoun said, the way platonicx described it is how it should work...

[Qzipoun]

Hmmm. I don't know the quest ...

now that you mention in, the dragon is a quest boss. I haven't tried diplo in there but would not be surprised if the dragon's aggro mechanic is simply different than the average mob, just like many other bosses/ raid bosses

[Mockduck]

Honestly, I'd say it's WAI. Really, if you just saw someone kill your loved one, would you be, like, "well, he/she doesn't seem that bad, better attack someone else..." Especially if you are a dragon staring down at a puny biped who just grabbed your loot. I'm guessing it's because of the particular quest and battle, but ???

[Gelmir87]

The mechanic of Diplomacy works exactly the same as intimidate. You roll and pass the check, but to shed aggro, someone must be as close or closer to the mob as you are. Names do not have different mechanics as I have diplo-ed named Orthons in VoD on my level20 Sorc. You simply have to make sure that there is someone to pass off the aggro to.

Disclaimer :: If you keep attacking, you WILL re-aggro...

[suszterpatt]

Hmmm. I don't know the quest but here's some thing to look at (you prob already know them but anyway...):

Was the dragon coming after you alone or using an AOE attack?After me specifically. If I backed up, went into sneak mode and tried circling it, it would continue to turn to face me.

Is it a named dragon?Quest boss, but that shouldn't matter when it comes to diplo/intim. Also, this keeps happening with plain mobs too. It even happened when I was trying to favor-run Made to Order on elite at lvl 18, which is way above the quest's level. A monk was right there punching the dwarves in the face, but no matter how many successful checks I made, the ones on me wouldn't lose aggro.

Was anyone else diploing or intimidating (they can screw with each other)?No.

Were folks close enough to you to shed aggro onto them?There was a perfectly good barb and monk that the dragon kept trampling underfoot in order to get to me.

Was anyone else attacking the dragon (if no one else has attacked it, it's harder to shed aggro)?Aforementioned barb and monk tried their best.

[Strakeln]

Diplo seems to be working fine for me, I've been using it on the bases in epic dragon with good (and sometimes humorous) effect.

The thing about diplo is, there has to be a target very close nearby. For example, a caster standing 1/3rd of the way across a VoN 6 base is not close enough. You need someone nearby who is within or juuuuust outside melee range for it to work to full effect.

And remember, just because the mob is looking elsewhere does not mean he doesn't know where you are now. Going back into sneak mode will do very little for you... once the mob knows where you are, it will continue to know where you are... that's just how the AI works.

[Uska]

I have found that it only works well if I have another party member really close by and I need to becareful its not the cleric or a squishy of course I forget sometimes and its pretty funny when your duoing and put 4-6 ogre or the like on the cleric who goes down like a ton of bricks.

[Modinator0]

diplo has never worked right for me. I stopped taking it on my characters around mod 1.

[suszterpatt]

So then there's a good chance that diplo will stay like this forever, at least for me?

[parvo]

Prior to the aggro de-boince timer, diplomacy worked as intended. Afterward, it's been bonk. I suggest everyone bug report it every time they play. A flood of bug reports is the only way to get attention on this.

[Mindspat]

diplo has never worked right for me. I stopped taking it on my characters around mod 1.

(Modinator likely means Update 1 and not Module 1.)

Update 1 was when someone broke it. There was a patch soon after that refered to "Devil's and Deamon's ability to see and hear" which I suspect was directly related to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks; the patch note was indicitive of someone messing around with it for what ever reason.

It was probably broken on purpose as there's been an expressed view that players being able to mitigate too much of a hazard breaks the game design. Granted it IS BETTER to have predetermined agression in the same way players, good ones at least, go for casters and clerics before most melee mobs but this should be regulated by the difficulty the quest was opened on.

the changes were extreme while inadvertantly breaking passive role playing that was available without having to talk in a funny voice as if you're a female elf played by a dude. Why couldn't they do something with Bluff which is one of 2 Sorcerer skills which is only applied to a melee attack while requiring a long zip bar that's interupted when moved!?! Come one - Bluff could be made to apply an increased chance to perform a critical spell attack and would be awesome even with the potential for interuption. (Hello Mr or Mrs Developer!!)

seriously, why hasn't there been a reason given for not fixing bluff - too lazy, over worked, don't care? Diplomacy and Intimidate used to be much like Bluff in regards to the zip bar and interuption, but those were fixed so that they can actualy be used as part of the game; they even had their cool downs reduced from 10 seconds to 6! Turbine likes metrics, I wonder if they can check how many times someone has used Bluff in the game - I bet 1 out of a 1000 might use it more then 4 or 5 times. No one uses it cause it severely sucks yet it is only 1 of 2 skills available to a Sorcerer's primary skill selection and doesn't even apply to spell damage. :mad:

I still use Diplomacy.

p.s. I can't believe they made it so Hezrou's can no longer be dispelled but couldn't improve Bluff. Shows a direction of: "remove, impede and punish, but do not enhance." I don't believe this albeit the oversight is lame.

p.p.s. this will probably continue being ignored. :(

[weyoun]

I diplo like crazy on my warchanter and on my tempest rogue. Works like a charm. Of course, I'm mostly shedding raid boss agro and positioning with it so . . . your results may vary.

[Nott]

diplo has never worked right for me. I stopped taking it on my characters around mod 1.You stopped taking it around mod 1. You are qualified to state that it didn't work right for you at release, and around mod 1. Sure, if you want to get technical, it never worked for you, however having not actually tried it since mod 1, your statement is of very limited value, and can easily be misleading to someone that doesn't recognize the lack of substance in what you're saying.