Two handed Fighting with 1 handed weapons

[noinfo]

I am sure this has come up before but certainly not for quite some time. With the additional development that is going into DDO at the moment I would like to see the option of using non finesse based weapons in 2 hands (dependant on the amount of development time) I would see this as being activated automatically every time a 1 handed weapon is held in primary hand without second weapon or sheild.

Not exactly game breaking for most long established players but could be extremely useful for newer players with fewer weapons and provide a bit of variety. If ballance is an issue certain weapons only could be considered (namely those not considered useful such as longsword, bastard sword etc)

This would of course be dependant on development time involved.

[hydra_ex]

I really don't see a point in this. a 1H weapon should deal less damage than a 2H weapon, always. Right now, the khopesh would deal more damage if allowed to be used in two hands. Instead, I'd like to see an exotic two hander akin to the khopesh be introduced.

[noinfo]

I really don't see a point in this. a 1H weapon should deal less damage than a 2H weapon, always. Right now, the khopesh would deal more damage if allowed to be used in two hands. Instead, I'd like to see an exotic two hander akin to the khopesh be introduced.


I agree a 1 hander should always deal less. That is why I suggested it be restricted as to what weapons be allowed. Using a 1 handed weapon 2 handed is part of the PnP rules and while I am not saying that just because that is the case that it needs to be implemented. Certain weapons such as the Bastard sword have suffered particulary because of the lack of this ability. I would suggest that since the Khopesh is already king of 1 handers that it be excluded anyway since the x3 + crit range would be op.

While scimitars would not really be op with this (still being inferior to Falchions etc) I would suggest maybe restricting those as well as they are still 1 of the top range single handed melee weapons and open it up only to those others who could use a little boost in versatility or damage.

[hydra_ex]

You agree that 1H weapons are worse than 2H weapons. You also don't want it to be a waste of developer/coding time. Although Turbine occasionally (ok, often) messes up and comes up with underpowered choices, coming up with such a blatant one just for a little pnp reminiscing (a model away from which Turbine is moving).

Not only is it a waste of time, it also gives absolutely no value (unless you're a destitute, poor, newbie) to the game.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I misread this as "Two-Handed weapons in One-Hand", and thought we were talking about Monkey Grip. :(

[Pwesiela]

Two words: Bastard Sword

[noinfo]

You agree that 1H weapons are worse than 2H weapons. You also don't want it to be a waste of developer/coding time. Although Turbine occasionally (ok, often) messes up and comes up with underpowered choices, coming up with such a blatant one just for a little pnp reminiscing (a model away from which Turbine is moving).

Not only is it a waste of time, it also gives absolutely no value (unless you're a destitute, poor, newbie) to the game.


Look Hydra, not looking for an arguement over this.

It can reduce the grind for crafting some things.
It can add value and versatility to weapons (I am sick of all builds with scimitars, rapiers, khopeshs, DA and GA) though I understand why.
It helps fix the broken Bastards sword.
Allows some piercing weapons to be used 2 handed without having to add more weapons into the game.

As you are not a Dev you cannot say how much Dev time it would waste, and quite frankly if they wasted their time on this rather then DA or Grazing Hits I would be very very grateful.

It may only be a very small addition or a very large one if it were to require a great deal of work fair enough, otherwise I believe it is a reasonable request and would like to hear from the devs regarding it.

[noinfo]

Instead, I'd like to see an exotic two hander akin to the khopesh be introduced.

Seriously? How broken would that be?

[Lleren]

I would suggest allowing this for Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes. Better options for using twohanded in both cases so no balance issue involved except bag slots for gear. Both are supposed to be able to be used twohanded without the exotic weapon proficiency feat anyway.

[noinfo]

I would suggest allowing this for Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes. Better options for using twohanded in both cases so no balance issue involved except bag slots for gear. Both are supposed to be able to be used twohanded without the exotic weapon proficiency feat anyway.

But if you add the functionality for them then it exists for others as well.

[bobbryan2]

It would be nice for a character, like favored souls, to deal extra damage with a longsword while forgoing defense.

Also... the ability to use cool bastard swords without an exotic feat.

Long overdue.

[Lleren]

But if you add the functionality for them then it exists for others as well.

Not if it is coded specifically for just those two weapons... In DnD, the editions I am familiar with anyway, they are considered exotic weapons only if you want to use them one handed.

Coding all weapons to be able to be used two handed would be silly, two handed dagger use for example. There is probobly a movie out there though where someone uses a dagger two handed in a jumping from a high place down on to someone attack, but it would still be silly the way DDO is set up.

[Runaway]

It could also be coded that all heavy 1-handed weapons can be used as 2-handed. That exempts daggers, shortswords, rapiers,... And it would make a lot of sense as well.

Thumbs up for a good idea from the OP.

[Bacab]

Great idea. If even for a tribute to PnP DnD. It also would be nice if a sword and board player comes across a monster with Dr-

They could swing with both hands for added STR bonus to help break that DR-

It would also make certain weapons more valuable like bastard swords and dwarven axes and even Khopesh. My FvS doesnt use Khopesh but it would be cool to use the Chaos Blade just as a toy. Also think about what a Deathnip would do with 2 hands on it from a raging Barb...I would love to see that.

It would also allow us to have a 2 hand piercing weapon (would love to see halberds/spears). I mean seriously who here doesnt think that Rahl's Might is the best looking weapon in game (or a Dreamspitter)?

Also I would like to see Quarter Staff be dual-wieldable (like PnP) if you have the dual-wield feat. It would be awesome for a Thf-Acrobat have the option to "dual-wield" (still only have one staff in their hands..not 2) their Staves.

[Greydeath]

Actually this was originally suggested as a way to fix Bastard Swords: the ability to use them two handed or one handed would be of great benefit to many tanks that are more about flexibility rather than max DPS. Would make it very easy to switch between 'THF' and 'S&B' for example allowing Defenders to simplify their equipment.

[Schwarzie]

I really don't see a point in this. a 1H weapon should deal less damage than a 2H weapon, always. Right now, the khopesh would deal more damage if allowed to be used in two hands. Instead, I'd like to see an exotic two hander akin to the khopesh be introduced.

Well only problem here is the abomination the Kopesh actually is.

Lonsword deasl 1D8 and has a crit mod of 2

Bastardsword is a exotic weapon, so either the critmod (19-20 = 2 numbers to hit a crit with the base of x2 so 2x1 = critmod 2) or the dice gets upped. BSword upps the dice to 1d10.

Kopesh is a exotic weapon and upps the crit multi. But upping the crit multi by one on a weapon which has already 19-20 (so a critrange of 2) it DOUBLES the critvalue to 4. (19-20 = 2 x3 multi =2 2x2=4)

Kopesh is the only weapon in game where they made the mistake, and AFAIK does this weapon not exist in PnP. Therefore Kopesh is the Abomination. The only thing worse would be a "exotic Pick" with a Range of 19-20.

[Bacab]

There is an "Exotic Pick" with 19-20...its a named Item named "Deathnip" it takes millions of plat to get it...or a whole lotta farming. It's like getting a Skiver...almost a career goal.

Khopesh is in PnP 3.5 DnD. It is D10 x2 Crit...its added bonus is a bonus to trip. Heck it may not even be a d10...may just be d8... But yeah its a "tripping weapon".

Though on the tripping weapon idea...I'd like to see whips in the game. d2 dmg but could do status things to monsters with it (paralyzers, cursespewing..etc) It would let a squishy toon melee something from a safe distance...and yeah i know x-bow allows this...but think about how cool a whip would look.

[Schwarzie]

There is an "Exotic Pick" with 19-20...its a named Item named "Deathnip" it takes millions of plat to get it...or a whole lotta farming. It's like getting a Skiver...almost a career goal.

Hehe, yeah i know that weapon. But well as long as it is only one named item, no harm, but imagine this would be a weapon category and you could greensteel it...

[flynnjsw]

There is an "Exotic Pick" with 19-20...its a named Item named "Deathnip" it takes millions of plat to get it...or a whole lotta farming. It's like getting a Skiver...almost a career goal.

Khopesh is in PnP 3.5 DnD. It is D10 x2 Crit...its added bonus is a bonus to trip. Heck it may not even be a d10...may just be d8... But yeah its a "tripping weapon".

Though on the tripping weapon idea...I'd like to see whips in the game. d2 dmg but could do status things to monsters with it (paralyzers, cursespewing..etc) It would let a squishy toon melee something from a safe distance...and yeah i know x-bow allows this...but think about how cool a whip would look.


Or spiked chains...Ok, that goes a little too far.

As far as the OP, I would not mind seeing them implement that rule from PnP.

Money grip would also be nice.

[Bacab]

Or spiked chains...Ok, that goes a little too far.

As far as the OP, I would not mind seeing them implement that rule from PnP.

Money grip would also be nice.


Spiked Chain...yes...gimme gimme NOT TOO FAR

they could always test it out on Lammia?

Also when they first started MNK it was "overpowered" then it became "Gimped" and now its where it is now...just like every other job...15% great 15% good 60% absolute garbage

[Anderei]

Just think in terms of roleplay. which fighter would held a small light sword (speaking not a two-hander by design) in two hands? This is just stupid and limits you fighting capability and action radius.

[Joab_Watts]

Kopesh should have been implemented as 1d8 (18-20/X2).

So Kopesh:Scimitar as Bastard Sword:Longsword as Dwarven Axe:Battle Axe.

(And I am a Kopesh user.)

And I also think that Bastard Swords (at least) should be both 1 or 2 handed.

My 2 cp.

[Happosaai]

PnP has rules in place to use a 1h weapon in 2h. I believe it gives 1.5 x str bonus to damage, and you use Power Attack as if the weapon were a 2 hander... but that's all.

[flynnjsw]

Just think in terms of roleplay. which fighter would held a small light sword (speaking not a two-hander by design) in two hands? This is just stupid and limits you fighting capability and action radius.

I think PnP took Roleplay into account more than DDO, and PnP has that rule.

[Cloista]

Also, consider a Fencer, who uses a one handed weapon, in a single hand, but the second hand is free for balance, and indeed, used to add leverage on certain strikes. You should be familiar with this style of fighting - it's what you see in most films, Pirates of the Carribean for instance, and indeed most since those starring the likes of Errol Flynn.

[Murderface]

I really don't see a point in this. a 1H weapon should deal less damage than a 2H weapon, always. Right now, the khopesh would deal more damage if allowed to be used in two hands. Instead, I'd like to see an exotic two hander akin to the khopesh be introduced.
uhm bastard swords are hand and a half sword which means
it can be swung one handed or two handed. yeah and we dont need more weapons akin to kopesh because kopesh is a turbine special that has nothing to do with dnd
if it followed the rules it would be a 1d8 scimitar or 1d4 with x3 19-20

i think its a super awsome idea op ive braught this up bastard sword would be awsome if it could be used as one or two handed weapon as it is in pnp

also you should be able to use a buckler with a thf weapon as it is in pnp

[hydra_ex]

Look Hydra, not looking for an arguement over this.

It can reduce the grind for crafting some things.
It can add value and versatility to weapons (I am sick of all builds with scimitars, rapiers, khopeshs, DA and GA) though I understand why.
It helps fix the broken Bastards sword.
Allows some piercing weapons to be used 2 handed without having to add more weapons into the game.

As you are not a Dev you cannot say how much Dev time it would waste, and quite frankly if they wasted their time on this rather then DA or Grazing Hits I would be very very grateful.

It may only be a very small addition or a very large one if it were to require a great deal of work fair enough, otherwise I believe it is a reasonable request and would like to hear from the devs regarding it.

Reducing grind how? It is uncommon for a character to switch combat styles; an intimitank who THF's would be the exception.
People only use a certain kind of weapon since its better in some way. a 1H weapon in 2 hands would be inferior to all the existing 2H weapons (except khopesh). People tend to not use inferior weapons unless for roleplaying purposes.
How? Bastard swords will still be weaker than khopesh as a 1H, and weaker than falchion as a 2H.
This I like -- but I'd still rather just see the weapons coded in.

Turbine, although they screw up a lot, tries to do something with the best possible intentions. Something like this is just so blatantly numerically inferior.

A 2H khopesh with only 1d10 base damage wouldn't be overpowered in the least.

The only place where I can see this being of a benefit is for poor new players who can't afford a greatsword, and so have to use a longsword instead.

And unfortunately for all the above posters, I hate to break it to you, but DDO is not pnp. It has different strategies. Where it might make sense in pnp to wield a bastard sword in two hands on occasion (and it often does), DDO restricts this element, as people generally stick to 1 style, always.

[Lleren]

Just think in terms of roleplay. which fighter would held a small light sword (speaking not a two-hander by design) in two hands? This is just stupid and limits you fighting capability and action radius.

Katana = Bastard Sword in DnD ruleset pretty much.

Lets not get into researched Roleplaying examples though, someone might bring up Halfswording.


And unfortunately for all the above posters, I hate to break it to you, but DDO is not pnp. It has different strategies. Where it might make sense in pnp to wield a bastard sword in two hands on occasion (and it often does), DDO restricts this element, as people generally stick to 1 style, always.

Don't the "intimi-tank" builds often use two combat modes, one for Tanking and another for DPS mode. I will agree that this is not most characters. I do run into quite a few of them even so.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Don't the "intimi-tank" builds often use two combat modes, one for Tanking and another for DPS mode. I will agree that this is not most characters. I do run into quite a few of them even so.

That was addressed earlier in her/his post.

[gavagai]

A 2H khopesh with only 1d10 base damage wouldn't be overpowered in the least.


Made me lol. 2d4 19-20/x3 would still be OP. Given how strength and buff effects factor into damage and crits, a 1d6 19-20/x3 Two Hander would be balanced.

"Fair and Balanced" Kopeshes:

1h: 1d4 19-20/x3
2h: 1d6 19-20/x3

Playing with the DDO Melee Tool, those "balanced" Kopeshes would still outdamage a Bastard Sword (1h) and Falchion (2h) with Power Attack and 50 STR (no other damage bonuses factored in). Obviously on-crit effects would move numbers towards the Falch, but the x3 Crit keeps the d6 2H Kop in the lead until you hit high fort. Only a back-of-the-envelope example, but good enough to make a point.

Anyway, as for OP: I think it would add some fun to inventory management. Not a necessary feature, but could make those Harbor levels a little more fun and flexible.

[Lleren]

Reducing grind how? It is uncommon for a character to switch combat styles; an intimitank who THF's would be the exception.



That was addressed earlier in her/his post.

I think I missed that line when I skimmed over the first time, woops.

[tc12]

As a old PnP guy myself, I can see both sides here.

I can understand where some folks are seeing this working like PnP for sword-n-board tanks who would (re-)use the same weapon(s) in their DPS mode. A Dwarf with a single Min II Dwarven Axe wouldn't have to burn 24 more larges on a Min II Greataxe when they drop the shield, swap PA for CE and wail away. Getting to use the DWA instead but have the 2H benefit of PA would be nice. Especially if you use the weapon-specific enhancements Fighters get. Or if you have the gear to pull off intimitanking with the Kensai line intead of Stalwart.

The reality is that even this scenario has flaws. After all a sword-n-board style is only worth it if you can reach a very high AC end-game. And to do that means you need a good DEX. At which point you should probably go 2WF for your DPS mode instead of 2H.

So ya, sounds good at first blush, but doesn't really hold up to the realities of decent builds or end-game play.

TC

[Murderface]

As a old PnP guy myself, I can see both sides here.

I can understand where some folks are seeing this working like PnP for sword-n-board tanks who would (re-)use the same weapon(s) in their DPS mode. A Dwarf with a single Min II Dwarven Axe wouldn't have to burn 24 more larges on a Min II Greataxe when they drop the shield, swap PA for CE and wail away. Getting to use the DWA instead but have the 2H benefit of PA would be nice. Especially if you use the weapon-specific enhancements Fighters get. Or if you have the gear to pull off intimitanking with the Kensai line intead of Stalwart.

The reality is that even this scenario has flaws. After all a sword-n-board style is only worth it if you can reach a very high AC end-game. And to do that means you need a good DEX. At which point you should probably go 2WF for your DPS mode instead of 2H.

So ya, sounds good at first blush, but doesn't really hold up to the realities of decent builds or end-game play.

TC
dps mode for sword and board bastard or dwarven axe as a two hander really evens the playing feild for them. and a nice penalty for using a kopesh . as well real bucklers that lets you use mauls great clubs, great axes etc and have a decent ac while thf. basicly the thing i disagree with is that it would yes indeed increase the damage of rather useless sword and boards when it comes to dps. as well with these defender prcs you could use a buckler and a th weapon still have most of your ac -3 from a tower sheild
i would say win win, but turbine is too lazy to doing anything right thats why we have alot of half baked dnd things goin on

for example prc classes

[hydra_ex]

Made me lol. 2d4 19-20/x3 would still be OP. Given how strength and buff effects factor into damage and crits, a 1d6 19-20/x3 Two Hander would be balanced.

"Fair and Balanced" Kopeshes:

1h: 1d4 19-20/x3
2h: 1d6 19-20/x3


I agree, but it only makes the 2H khopesh as OP as the 1H khopesh, and Turbine won't go back and change it now.

[nibel]

Kopesh is the only weapon in game where they made the mistake, and AFAIK does this weapon not exist in PnP. Therefore Kopesh is the Abomination.


Khopesh is in PnP 3.5 DnD. It is D10 x2 Crit...its added bonus is a bonus to trip. Heck it may not even be a d10...may just be d8... But yeah its a "tripping weapon".

Arms & Equipment Guide, pg 6-8. Khopesh is a 1d8 19-20/x2 weapon. Its only advantage over the longsword is that you can use it to trip enemies. I still dont know where Turbine found that stupid x3 multiplier. But i'm sure they dont correct it because of the thousands of player who will whine about it because of all the dps loss.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Arms & Equipment Guide, pg 6-8. Khopesh is a 1d8 19-20/x2 weapon. Its only advantage over the longsword is that you can use it to trip enemies. I still dont know where Turbine found that stupid x3 multiplier. But i'm sure they dont correct it because of the thousands of player who will whine about it because of all the dps loss.

They could instead leave Khopesh alone and make some pretty beastly Epic weapons of Longswords, Rapiers, Scimitars, ect.

Instead of Epic Chaosblade.


"Yeah, let's take a broken weapon...and broken EPIC version of it! No issues with balance I can think of..."


That said, if I had an Epic Chaosblade...I'd so totally use it. :/

[noinfo]

Also, consider a Fencer, who uses a one handed weapon, in a single hand, but the second hand is free for balance, and indeed, used to add leverage on certain strikes. You should be familiar with this style of fighting - it's what you see in most films, Pirates of the Carribean for instance, and indeed most since those starring the likes of Errol Flynn.

Fencing is done with light finessable weapons not the heavier ones.

Think knight weapons or katana even. Almost any medievil type movie often has the shield discarded latter in battle and the sword gripped in 2 hands for greater impact. Then again these movies DO NOT have a magical golf bag to carry 100s of weapon sets in either :-p

[MystDragon]

Kopesh is the only weapon in game where they made the mistake, and AFAIK does this weapon not exist in PnP. Therefore Kopesh is the Abomination. The only thing worse would be a "exotic Pick" with a Range of 19-20.

Actually Khopesh does exist in PnP - it was the crappiest sword in PnP. In years of gaming, I've only ever seen 1 player use it - and that was because he had never seen anyone ever use it.

[Murderface]

Actually Khopesh does exist in PnP - it was the crappiest sword in PnP. In years of gaming, I've only ever seen 1 player use it - and that was because he had never seen anyone ever use it.
if its really rare and hard to find why bother
pnp combat feats are usualy for 1 weapon type only

[Murderface]

Fencing is done with light finessable weapons not the heavier ones.

Think knight weapons or katana even. Almost any medievil type movie often has the shield discarded latter in battle and the sword gripped in 2 hands for greater impact. Then again these movies DO NOT have a magical golf bag to carry 100s of weapon sets in either :-p

thats why you buy a packanimal for all the lootskies

[MystDragon]

if its really rare and hard to find why bother
pnp combat feats are usualy for 1 weapon type only

I don't know about 4th edition, but out of all the available combat feats in PnP 3rd, only a relative few are specific to only 1 weapon type. Most are not.

[Schwarzie]

I don't know about 4th edition, but out of all the available combat feats in PnP 3rd, only a relative few are specific to only 1 weapon type. Most are not.

But still, every melee in PnP 3.5 who wants to do real damage takes the bastard sword and the Exotic Weapon Master...

[bobbryan2]

Reducing grind how? It is uncommon for a character to switch combat styles; an intimitank who THF's would be the exception.
People only use a certain kind of weapon since its better in some way. a 1H weapon in 2 hands would be inferior to all the existing 2H weapons (except khopesh). People tend to not use inferior weapons unless for roleplaying purposes.
How? Bastard swords will still be weaker than khopesh as a 1H, and weaker than falchion as a 2H.
This I like -- but I'd still rather just see the weapons coded in.

Turbine, although they screw up a lot, tries to do something with the best possible intentions. Something like this is just so blatantly numerically inferior.

A 2H khopesh with only 1d10 base damage wouldn't be overpowered in the least.

The only place where I can see this being of a benefit is for poor new players who can't afford a greatsword, and so have to use a longsword instead.

And unfortunately for all the above posters, I hate to break it to you, but DDO is not pnp. It has different strategies. Where it might make sense in pnp to wield a bastard sword in two hands on occasion (and it often does), DDO restricts this element, as people generally stick to 1 style, always.

If you can't see a benefit.. then you're just not looking hard enough.

Sovreign host favored soul. Gets longsword... doesn't care about defense. 2H longsword > quarterstaff.

So

A) It's in the rules
B) It would be useful

It should be done.

[assamite]

I really don't see a point in this. a 1H weapon should deal less damage than a 2H weapon, always. Right now, the khopesh would deal more damage if allowed to be used in two hands. Instead, I'd like to see an exotic two hander akin to the khopesh be introduced.

Yes but in martial arts using a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands gives you tactical advantages fighting an opponent. Such as increased mobility and better precision.

[hydra_ex]

Yes but in martial arts using a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands gives you tactical advantages fighting an opponent. Such as increased mobility and better precision.

Unfortunately DDO/DnD does not, should not, and will not always follow real world combat strategies. Last time I checked, the longsword was the major two handed weapon, and people didn't swing greataxes with such efficiency.

[bobbryan2]

As a old PnP guy myself, I can see both sides here.

I can understand where some folks are seeing this working like PnP for sword-n-board tanks who would (re-)use the same weapon(s) in their DPS mode. A Dwarf with a single Min II Dwarven Axe wouldn't have to burn 24 more larges on a Min II Greataxe when they drop the shield, swap PA for CE and wail away. Getting to use the DWA instead but have the 2H benefit of PA would be nice. Especially if you use the weapon-specific enhancements Fighters get. Or if you have the gear to pull off intimitanking with the Kensai line intead of Stalwart.

The reality is that even this scenario has flaws. After all a sword-n-board style is only worth it if you can reach a very high AC end-game. And to do that means you need a good DEX. At which point you should probably go 2WF for your DPS mode instead of 2H.

So ya, sounds good at first blush, but doesn't really hold up to the realities of decent builds or end-game play.

TC

TWF takes all 3 feats to be viable... feats that may or may not be free on an intim build.

Furthermore, classes that have restricted weapon sets, primarily FvS and bard as well as the elven race, could use longswords and scimitars with two hands for a little more DPS.

It holds up to the realties of end-game play just fine. Would you rather use a longsword with + str modifier damage or a longsword with + str modifier x 1.5 damage?

[Aesop]

Oddly enough I come down on the side of /not signed.

1. You have th eKhopesh etc problem.
1a. If you exclude weapons that would break the game it doesn't make sense in an in game sorta way. Why can't Khopesh be used? Because its too good? yeah that doesn't really fly.

2. Instead of this to "fix" bastard swords have those "hand and a half" weapons have their own Glancing Blow effect built into them on strikes 2 and 4.
2a. DO NOT have the thf feats benefit them however as that doesn't really make sense.
2b. You could also have them apply a +1 bonus to Power Attack Damage if the Glancing Blows still don't compensate for Khopesh.

3. Too much can break from this change.


You really want to make a change? Bring back Bucklers and have them useable with Two Handed Weapons. Give Two Handers their slot to gain effects back.

Want another one

add a Passive version of Shield Bash. Will S&B become primary Damage dealers... no but it would help them out a bit.

heres a third (fourth if you count the Hand and a half suggestion)

Fix Ranged Combat... too slow is the first problem too much to specialize is another

Aesop

[Turial]

...
heres a third (fourth if you count the Hand and a half suggestion)

Fix Ranged Combat... too slow is the first problem too much to specialize is another

Aesop

Hard to count with only half a hand.

You just had to slip this in too didn't you. :)

[Aesop]

Hard to count with only half a hand.

You just had to slip this in too didn't you. :)

yes... yes I think I did :D

[noinfo]

Oddly enough I come down on the side of /not signed.

1. You have th eKhopesh etc problem.
1a. If you exclude weapons that would break the game it doesn't make sense in an in game sorta way. Why can't Khopesh be used? Because its too good? yeah that doesn't really fly.

Aesop

Not a problem really, just say that the design of the Khopesh is optimal to being weilded in 1 hand and that in 2 hands becomes less effective (you if you really wanted to use it drop the mulitplier for 2 hands to x2 instead).

IIRC finesse weapons cannot be weilded 2 handed either.

[Aesop]

Not a problem really, just say that the design of the Khopesh is optimal to being weilded in 1 hand and that in 2 hands becomes less effective (you if you really wanted to use it drop the mulitplier for 2 hands to x2 instead).

IIRC finesse weapons cannot be weilded 2 handed either.

Actually I believe the language states Light Weapons can't be, not Finessable... this would be a big difference

and if you look at a Khopesh... it most certainly does lend it self rather well to being two handed.


Aesop

[hydra_ex]

and if you look at a Khopesh... it most certainly does lend it self rather well to being two handed.


In fact, theoretically, its the best 2H in the game.

[bobbryan2]

In fact, theoretically, its the best 2H in the game.

Perhaps the best non-named 2HW.

But in reality... the top of the top wouldn't change at all.

Besides... if they removed glancing blows for all 1-handed weapons save maybe D axe and bastard sword, it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

This point is more of something to watch out for... not a reason to not do it.

[hydra_ex]

Perhaps the best non-named 2HW.

But in reality... the top of the top wouldn't change at all.

Besides... if they removed glancing blows for all 1-handed weapons save maybe D axe and bastard sword, it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

This point is more of something to watch out for... not a reason to not do it.

Yeah, the best non-named. I'm not saying that this is an argument not to make 1H weapons able to be THFed. I'm just pointing out that the khopesh model is just as applicable to THF as it is to TWF, to counter noninfo's claim to the contrary.

[noinfo]

Yeah, the best non-named. I'm not saying that this is an argument not to make 1H weapons able to be THFed. I'm just pointing out that the khopesh model is just as applicable to THF as it is to TWF, to counter noninfo's claim to the contrary.

Hydra I am not too sure what you are getting at with this, is it that I believe that having 2 handed Khopesh is OP? or that I suggested a reason for it not being allowed?

[noinfo]

Actually I believe the language states Light Weapons can't be, not Finessable... this would be a big difference

and if you look at a Khopesh... it most certainly does lend it self rather well to being two handed.


Aesop

Well it would not really be that big of a difference except that I find the idea of a rapier being 2 handed quite funny, but no different to a scimitar in effect, and still inferior to current 2 handed weapons.

And for Khopesh it also lends itself rather well to being a x2 crit weapon, but it isn't in ddo, I am not suggesting after all this time that it should be. However suggesting that it could be restricted to one handed only or x2 crit multiplier if used 2 handed is quite viable seems really a non issue.

[etelan]

At least some 1h weapons really need to be usuable 2h as in the 3.5 rules. Bastard swords come to mind. Devs can even use the greatsword attack animation.

If we want to only allow a few weapons two handed just add something like a reverse 'versatile' keyword from 4th edition.