Elven Dragonmarked Fighter, Ftr12/Pal6/Rog2 or Rng6/Mnk2?

[Victor_1]

Friend of mine just unlocked 32pt build, and asked me to built the character who uses Elven Dragonmark or rather, Displacement.
He wanted to have survivable DPS character, and I made 2 option for him but I am not sure which would suit him.
His previous character is halfling rogue assassin, and now he wants play more melee focused survivable character who can do solo as well.

So here's what I came up, I want to have some advice for both build, especially from person who played similar character.

Pal/Rog version

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.16
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 314
Spell Points: 30
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 17
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 13 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 13 14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 4
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 22
Bluff 1 4
Concentration 1 2
Diplomacy 1 2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 5 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 6
Intimidate 1 2
Jump 7 25
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 3 4
Open Lock 7 12
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 8
Spot 3 5
Swim 7 11
Tumble 7 8
Use Magic Device 5 25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Undying Call
Enhancement: Follower of the Undying Court
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I




Rng/Mnk Version

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.16
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 70
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 18
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 22
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 24
Bluff -1 1
Concentration 1 2
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 2 3
Hide 7 18
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 29
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 7 16
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot 6 23
Swim 3 7
Tumble 4 10
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Rapier Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II




It seems to me Rng/Mnk version is more DPS focused, while Pal/Rog version is more versatile since he'll have UMD.
So this might be matter of personal preference, either DPS or versatility.
However since my friend is not really good for managing clickies and such, so I am not sure which would suits him more.

So opinions and comments are very welcome :) tell me what you think, please!

[krud]

My TRd character is a human 12ftr/6pal/2rog Stalwart Defender (currently 10ftr/4pal/2rog). It's a very survivable, self sufficient build. I considered both the monk and rogue versions too. I chose rogue for the versatility. It makes it a lot more self sufficient than the monk version. Also, you get plenty of feats with the fighter levels that 2 monk just doesn't add as much as it would on other, more feat starved builds. You'll never regret eventually being able to umd rez and heal scrolls. The good thing about this build with regard to clickies is that it is not very dependent on them. If you forget to use them you won't suffer very much at all.

You might want to get force of personality sooner than 18. I usually take it early in my builds. I don't really zoom my way up to cap, so it ends up being more useful for me the earlier I get it.

Since this build isn't too reliant on skill points, you might consider starting with a 12 int and 14 cha. It will help your umd, saves, LoH, and smites, while the the higher int only gets you a few more skill points. If you can swing a +2 int tome, it'll make the decision to go with 12 int even easier

[Victor_1]

My TRd character is a human 12ftr/6pal/2rog Stalwart Defender (currently 10ftr/4pal/2rog). It's a very survivable, self sufficient build. I considered both the monk and rogue versions too. I chose rogue for the versatility. It makes it a lot more self sufficient than the monk version. Also, you get plenty of feats with the fighter levels that 2 monk just doesn't add as much as it would on other, more feat starved builds. You'll never regret eventually being able to umd rez and heal scrolls. The good thing about this build with regard to clickies is that it is not very dependent on them. If you forget to use them you won't suffer very much at all.

You might want to get force of personality sooner than 18. I usually take it early in my builds. I don't really zoom my way up to cap, so it ends up being more useful for me the earlier I get it.

Since this build isn't too reliant on skill points, you might consider starting with a 12 int and 14 cha. It will help your umd, saves, LoH, and smites, while the the higher int only gets you a few more skill points. If you can swing a +2 int tome, it'll make the decision to go with 12 int even easier

I didnt aware about UMD for scrolls, but bypassing RR equipments. But yea it is always good to rise&heal group indeed.
As for the FoP, I tried to fit in more earlier but it delays other important feats, such as IMP:Crit, toughness, and GTWF too much.
But if you could suggest feat taking order, I would happy to see it :)
Also starting status could have adjusted as you said, ill try moving status/Enhancement to make Cha mod little bit better.

Anyway, thanks for the reply :) I think +1 to Pal/Rog combo.

[gavagai]

I'd say Rog, whether or not you choose Ranger or Paladin. And I'd drop Int and Combat Expertise for both builds.

I say this because it seems like you may be focusing too much on defense if you go for both high AC and displacement. You're spending 2 feats for a flat 50% to escape a hit. One damage mitigation method is enough; and since your friend wants the DMs for survivability, you'll probably get more out of Rogue (sneak attack damage, UMD to use stoneskin wands / heal scrolls) than monk.

I think Paladin has more synergy with a "survivable" and self-sufficient Displacement fighter. Since you expect to be taking about 50% of the incoming hits, Paladin gives more HPs and LoH for quick top-offs. It gives better saves. And without Tempest's Dodge/Mob/Spr Attack requirements its lighter on feats. Elven scimitars have great synergy with the benefits of your smites and DS's. Get your Cha to 14 with the points from INT to boost your abilities and get Divine Might I. Depending on how you feel about your saves, you can take FoP early and swap it out later for Kopesh or Quick Draw.

However, Tempest offers better offensive DPS and better spells. Undead and EO F.E.s for +5 dam > KotC's 1-6 dam. 6 minutes of Ram's Might and 6 minutes of Jump is better than the Paladin's brief Divine Favor and Virtue. And +10% attack speed... bah, we'll pretend I didn't mention that. It's tough, but the ranger will be all in all less tanky. Lower saves, less hp, and less overall versatility (LoH, UMD, &c) ;)

So I think your Fig/Pal/Rog will be better for what your friend is looking for.

[krud]

this is how I would proceed. I switched the level order as well. Since twf isn't as good at lower levels, you can delay it until later. Just go sword and board or THF until then. Weapon focus/spec are taken much later, but will only delay kensai1 by 2 levels. Power attack also gets pushed back a little, but, you pick up improved critical sooner with this order.

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 4 (Paladin)

Level 5 (Paladin)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 8 (Fighter)

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)

Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 17 (Fighter)

Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack

Level 19 (Fighter)

Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

[krud]

I'd say Rog, whether or not you choose Ranger or Paladin. And I'd drop Int and Combat Expertise for both builds.

I say this because it seems like you may be focusing too much on defense if you go for both high AC and displacement. You're spending 2 feats for a flat 50% to escape a hit. One damage mitigation method is enough;
You can never have enough. Displacement, high AC and intimidate may come in real handy if he needs to handle a crowd while the party recouperates. I see he has lots of skill points in jump that he can switch to intimidate for situations like that. Plus, he may not be displaced at all times.

[Victor_1]

@Krud
Sorry about not replying more earlier, I was pretty busy in real life recently :(

Let me say thank you in regard of my friend, and from me as well.
My friend rolled character with your plan and reached lv7. So far, he is enjoy playing :)
(Yes, He plays a LOT than me ;))

Thanks again for the help!