Pale Master + Idiot = Disaster

[redraider]

The Scene: Lvl 8-10 Von 3 - Super Bowl Sunday 2010

4 Melee, a FvS, and a Pale Master venture to meet the Inevitable

It goes according to script. A near wipe in the beholder room as Pritka laughs evilly.

Chaos as the named beholder follows the named troll and drow now into the next room.

To this point, it was all fun and giggles.

But now, we face the Marut. We buff and discuss strategy. Block him out of his own door and firewall and magic missle him down. We talk to veil and trigger. The block goes perfectly! The crowd starts cheering!

But wait! Where's the firewall? The Marut beats on the blockers while the pale master stands still. Two down! Three down! The leader yells for a firewall! Finally a firewall pops, right in front of the pale master in the back of the room.

:rolleyes:

The leader's sigh fills my headphone...

I'll run him around says the leader, get everyone back up and we will reset. Everyone is back up. We again discuss strategy. Firewall then MM!

Ummm... the pale master pipes up - MM not Mem'd. Ok... Would have been nice to know up front. OK, we block again and firewall and scorching ray? No reply from Pale Master. Well, lets do it.

Blockers in place. Leader runs through the line. Firewall up! ummm... Firewall!! FIREWALL!!! Two down on the front row again... Firewall pops, again, not where it's supposed to.

FVS is out of Mana. Pale Masters bar is half full. Melee's are talking *** on the caster. Team talks of bailing! But wait! FVS (me) offers to put up a eternal rest shrine and lets get this done! Shrine is up. Leader reminds Pale Master to get MM. Hmmm... Pale Master doesn't talk much. We reform the line. Everyone again has sonic resist. Pale Master looks ready.

Leader calls for firewall! Firewall goes up in right spot! AMAZING! Leader runs through wall. Marut follows and hits firewall. Blocking group holds.

Pale Master starts spamming Fireball! Leader shouts Use Magic Missle! Fireballs continue. Marut is taking VERY little damage. The Melee's start shouting MM!

Pale Master Dc's...

Ahhh DDO! Thank you for allowing the combination of Pale Masters and Idiots! :mad:

[Missing_Minds]

Ahhh DDO! Thank you for allowing the combination of Pale Masters and Idiots! :mad:

Sounds more like a party griefer than an idiot. Apply the word of mouth ban hammer and continue.

[Impaqt]

OK, I'm confused. What does Pale Master have to do with people not being able to listen to simple instructions/tactics?

[Sirea]

OK, I'm confused. What does Pale Master have to do with people not being able to listen to simple instructions/tactics?

This.

[TreknaQudane]

I'll jump on the hate bandwagon if the group bothered to explain what spells they want first. It's dangerous to assume that everyone knows what spells are needed in that specific situation.

After the second shrine time, I can understand angst, but most newer people would be put off already by having a group yell at them for something they didn't know to begin with.

Also, what the heck where your melee using? Clubs of the Holy Flame? Once you cut the regeneration he's a teddybear.

[Creeper]

Von 3 Marut Checklist:

1. chaotic-aligned weapon
2. a high fort save
3. blindness immunity.


This story sounds like more a reflection of the melee's idiocy.

In the end if wall of fire and MM make the difference of a party wipe 3x you are not good enough to do Von 3 yet. Your story indicates that the difference between fail and success was the difference in damage between fireball and MM, which I have a hard time believing. I think you would have failed even if the wizard had followed instruction.

That quest is soloable for a good melee at level 8 with a hireling to heal them.

[Crazyfruit]

Ok, you expected a wizard to be armed with firewall (many people don't even have it at the levels listed if they're new! be happy he did lol), magic missile, potency 4 items/pot, both empower/maximize feats, and have points into fire specialty? And you only told him that at the very end fight?

(Firewall does take some practice to aim too - which if they were behind him he's obviously not used to)

I've been in your wizard's shoes before on my first caster. Without ALL of that, firewall did like 2-10 damage against that marut. And magic missile on a wiz is near useless to help unless you can chain spam it with wands or force missile as well (due to the spell cooldown. again, unless specialized for it OR have an insane mana pool to dump with meta feats on). People were yelling at me saying I caused their group to wipe at the end when they hadn't said anything before about expecting all that. I had carried them through the beholder section with phantasmal killer as well.

Next run I did a couple people had pink weapons and we beat him down in a few seconds.

If you expect people to carry your group & be prepared with all kinds of stuff with a specific build, at least tell them in the first place. What were the rest of you doing to contribute in that fight? The marut used to have insane regeneration and needed all of your team able to beat him down & multiple casters if they weren't specialized.

[DANTEIL]

(Firewall does take some practice to aim too - which if they were behind him he's obviously not used to)


Yes, this! I still haven't figured out foolproof ways to tell where my firewall is going to end up when I cast it unless I land it specifically on a chosen target. When I'm casting onto an empty area, mostly I get it approximately where I want it, but sometimes it ends up all floaty in the air or 30 feet further into the distance than I meant. I'm just glad that fellow group members haven't felt the need to make snarky comments (out loud, at least) when they see one of my firewall misfires.

[Creeper]

Yes, this! I still haven't figured out foolproof ways to tell where my firewall is going to end up when I cast it unless I land it specifically on a chosen target. When I'm casting onto an empty area, mostly I get it approximately where I want it, but sometimes it ends up all floaty in the air or 30 feet further into the distance than I meant. I'm just glad that fellow group members haven't felt the need to make snarky comments (out loud, at least) when they see one of my firewall misfires.

Turn on mouse look (press "t" button") and click on the ground where you want it to go. It will appear at the same angle as your shoulders.

[Draclaud]

Hate to beat a dead horse on this one...but what does this have to do with him being a pale master?

[DANTEIL]

Turn on mouse look (press "t" button") and click on the ground where you want it to go. It will appear at the same angle as your shoulders.

ah yes that would probably help. Unfortunately I find it almost impossible to play "live" if I have mouselook on. I only really use it when I'm trying to target something small far away, like a lever, and I have plenty of time to line everything up. In the heat of action, when I'm trying to move around and such, mouselook gets me all discombobulated. But I guess that's my problem...

sorry for the derail...

[rimble]

On my first arcane, a Sorcerer, I caused a failure on this quest too, and for the same reason here. Communication.

First, if your quest completion (of any quest) is dependent upon any specific spells, make sure your caster has them. My Sorcerer did have Wall of Fire, but not Magic Missile. Of course, experienced players know that quest ends with Wall of Fire and Magic Missile (at least that's the most common tactic I've seen), but new players don't know. I didn't. This guy didn't.

Second, this is where I learned how important both Maximize and Empower are. It's not necessary for you to always have them on, but my Wall of Fire wasn't doing enough damage. This is where I learned the importance of those two feats, sometimes the group requires the arcane to complete the quest, and when it's your turn up at bat, you want to be able to fry the living bejeesus out of that end guy. Initial questions here should have been: Do you have MM? Wall of Fire? Maximize and/or Empower?

Second-point-five, make sure you have the Potency/Lore items to back up your big guns. This definitely means pimping out Wall of Fire as much as you can, with both items and Enhancements. I probably wouldn't bother to ask a caster about that and just hope/assume he's on top of his gear. Maybe with the new player influx it's time to check all that stuff. Again, not for EVERY group invite, but if you're relying on the caster to do a specific job, make sure he can do it.

Third, yeah, the guy had problems. Maybe a non-English speaker, maybe a kid, I don't know. Was definitely his failure for mis-targeting spells.

[Angelus_dead]

Ahhh DDO! Thank you for allowing the combination of Pale Masters and Idiots! :mad:
It is unrealistic to expect the developers can prevent Pale Masters from grouping with idiot melees who blame others for their own lacking DPS.

[ajax1987]

ah yes that would probably help. Unfortunately I find it almost impossible to play "live" if I have mouselook on. I only really use it when I'm trying to target something small far away, like a lever, and I have plenty of time to line everything up. In the heat of action, when I'm trying to move around and such, mouselook gets me all discombobulated. But I guess that's my problem...

sorry for the derail...

I rarely use mouselook, but when I'm trying to lay down a firewall on the ground I hold the right mouse button down like when you're trying to rotate the camera. The aiming reticule comes up like when you're in mouselook but it goes away when you let go of the mouse button. I find it easier than using mouselook but thats just me

[redraider]

LOL, the Pale Master was the hook that got you to look! This could have been any arcane wiz. Although I will say, go look at the lvl 6-8 Wiz's in the harbor and market, and you will find a TON of new Pale Masters.

Not having MM at first? Party fault. Setting it all back up, using $7 worth of TP's on a shrine, taking the time to explain it all? And then the caster still pulls a complete mystery move? WOW! :confused:

Oh, and I agree with those that say this can be done on a Lvl 8 with a hireling. You have to get lucky that he doesn't stun punch you, but it can certainly be done.

We knew we were a weak party after the beholder room, so we set it up carefully to maximize our chance of success through the "caster take him down 1/3 then we all beat on him tactic".

This was no party grief agent, this was an idiot!

Oh, I was the FvS would definitely could not heal fast enough with my Healing Empowered CSW and my CSW wands and my once a 5 min Unyielding Sov. I need to get some heal scrolls...

[toughguyjoe]

It is unrealistic to expect the developers can prevent Pale Masters from grouping with idiot melees who blame others for their own lacking DPS.

Ooooh. Snarky..........

[Jay203]

i let those earth ele's do most of my dirty work when it comes to smacking marut around
on elite, those things do quite a lot of damage and takes quite a bit of beating from the Marut
then of course, i still have my Firewall ready for extra dps =P

[Gum]

Ahhh DDO! Thank you for allowing the combination of Pale Masters and Idiots!

LOLz, it's not limited to Pale Masters :p

[Creeper]

i let those earth ele's do most of my dirty work when it comes to smacking marut around
on elite, those things do quite a lot of damage and takes quite a bit of beating from the Marut
then of course, i still have my Firewall ready for extra dps =P

Not anymore. There are no Earth Elementals.

[toughguyjoe]

Not anymore. There are no Earth Elementals.


In my experience, they made the Marut a bit of a wuss. Not sure if this is confirmed that they nerfed him, but my monk took a neg level to smack through his DR and we took him down in no time.

Specifically, I was wondering if they slowed his regeneration rate.

[Enochroot]

Not having MM at first? Party fault. Setting it all back up, using $7 worth of TP's on a shrine, taking the time to explain it all? And then the caster still pulls a complete mystery move? WOW! :confused:

This was no party grief agent, this was an idiot!

Oh, I was the FvS would definitely could not heal fast enough with my Healing Empowered CSW and my CSW wands and my once a 5 min Unyielding Sov. I need to get some heal scrolls...


... We're not convinced the idiot in the story is who you say it is. At least you've admitted you should've checked the caster's setup first before all this happened. Hell, we normally make sure a wiz has MM wands to alternate with because wiz's don't generally have all that much nuking power at that level. And yes, you definitely should've had heal scrolls. This story seems to be less and less about the wiz ...


... Now, at the risk of exposing the fact I haven't played since update3 - why didn't you just take the stones back to the shrine and reset? (If this has changed, ok, then you really should've checked your caster's setup =P) And apparently someone mentioned above the earth ele's are gone now anyway?


He probably DCed because a bunch of ******** that didn't take the time to really coach him probably were just yelling at him and then yelling at him about using a shrine and decided to screw you all. I probably would've too.