will it hurt my build if iff i just get 10 str

[filippodoyle1974]

str 10
dex 16
con 16
int 8
wis 16
will it hurt me if i start them stats
i am geting weapon finesse

[BLAKROC]

you may be getting weap finesse but you won't do much damage,

drop con and wis to 14 put those points into str,

all lvl ups into dex.


you will be much happier in the long run.

[TechNoFear]

Power Attack req Str 13 and +3 tomes are hard to get.

Not sure if this would hurt your build but I find PA very useful.

[Greydeath]

Will it hurt a good build in the long run? No

Race plays a part of that though, and you need to consider what type of Monk you are going to be (presumeably either DEX or WIS and not STR...) For example if you Stun (Stunning Fist) all your mobs or Sneak Attack, then you are getting decent damage from other sources than STR.

That said, I do like to put 1:1 point buy into STR, and that could be done by a small drop in CON.

[epochofcrepuscule]

depends on the race really... but you want either a 13 str starting or a 12 and use a +1 tome. Dex at 16, wis at either 15 or 16. the rest into con. the lvl up points in stats at lvls 4,8,12 in dex and 16,20 in wis. Does great.

[Aziiz]

you can listen to the above replies if you want, but I would highly recommend reading through the entire however many pages of http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=222873 before making any decisions. I still very much consider myself a newbie player and a newbie monk, but I learned more from the thread I linked than from anywhere else so far.

In my opinion, the short answer to your original question (the thread title) is yes, it will hurt your build if you skimp on strength.

[Arkat]

you may be getting weap finesse but you won't do much damage,

drop con and wis to 14 put those points into str,

all lvl ups into dex.


you will be much happier in the long run.

/Signed, +1

[Aziiz]

you are gonna want to have some plan of getting your con to 18 as well. so unless you plan on putting 2 level ups into con, you might want to think about starting at 16 and eating a +2 tome. earth4 strike is totally worth it and is part of your max dps rotation, and your ending total hp will thank you for those points in con also. I haven't done anything epic yet, but the advice i got from my guildies that have is that you really want to have over 400 health, and 400 is the bottom of the acceptable range.

[truetrue4]

I prefer the stats that way:

str 14
dex 16
con 14
wis 16

You can take two con points off and move up to str ( 15 + 16 con = 4 build points, 10 to 14 str = 4 build points )

I am not saying that your stats are wrong. I see both pro and con in it.

Pro for con:
+20 hp @ lvl 20
+1 fort save
+1 conc skill

con:
two less damage point
less weight to carry
no power attack feat unless +3 str tome
two point less for str-based skills ( jump, swim, etc )
two point less dc for trip

[hu-flung-pu]

Will it hurt? No, I don't think kobolds would mind the breeze blowing in their direction.

Oh, your build?

Absolutely.

Minimum 14 in STR. You lose out too much by not going for the second tier fire stance.

[Xeraphim]

Minimum 14 in STR. You lose out too much by not going for the second tier fire stance.

I prefer Wind 4, because I'd rather not crunch numbers when I play.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you go Halfpart, Droo or Elfgh(not advised, go Halfling for DEX), you may want to take the advice of those guys screaming for your WIS, but only if you don't mind farming Ultra-Rare items(Icy Raiments, Chattering Ring, +8 Armor bracers) for months(literally, everyday for at least 3-4 months on average unless you get stupid-lucky).

As for the Icys, you could bribe a party member for 2 million plat(unless the price changed while I was 'gone'), and net them within a week or two on Sub Runs. Chattering Ring, 3 day timer per attempt(Twilight Forge). +8 Armor Bracers? Good luck, I've never seen any that weren't on the AH for over 1 million plat(Argonnessen, as of September 2009).

With a Halfpart DEX build(I've seen a very effective build (http://my.ddo.com/character/argonnessen/whitecrane/) on Argo), you'll want to squeeze Cunning and Guile in there somehow, and focus on AC. The one I saw used Handwraps, not kamas. IIRC, Whitecrane (linked in this paragraph) uses Wind Stance 4. I think the starting STR was 12 on a 32 point build, but you'd have to find him and ask via PM to find out.

[Zippo]

str 10
dex 16
con 16
int 8
wis 16
will it hurt me if i start them stats
i am geting weapon finesse

http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Monks.jpg

In seriousness though drop con and wis to 14 and put the points from that into your str. Two reasons really. First at a 10 str you might as well be Elton John trying to hit them, and second your wisdom bonus to AC is only good if your not encumbered a 10 str only starts you off at like 150lbs carry cap and you'll hit encumbered after the first set of armor you pick up.

[hu-flung-pu]

I prefer Wind 4, because I'd rather not crunch numbers when I play.



More power to ya! I don't think you need to number crunch to enjoy the game.

I also think that being able to combine fun with efficiency is doable as well.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

str 10
dex 16
con 16
int 8
wis 16
will it hurt me if i start them stats
i am geting weapon finesse

Nope.
Won't hurt you.....or the monsters. :D

[t0r012]

seriously people we are talking about him giving up +2 damage here.

You all are talking like it is going to be a total gimp cause he is not getting any + damage with str vs. +2. you all have been drinking the dex/wis monks hit like a wet noodle koolaid.
======
to the OP,
I would have said before go with at least 12 to get fire stance 1 but since that isn't required anymore it is up to you.

just remember though while +1 or +2 damage doesn't sound like a lot if you start to add it up over the number of attacks you do is a whole lot.
Next thing to keep in mind is that you will be disadvantaged on some of the lower level DR stuff like zomies. with out the extra damage to get past the DR you will be getting a lot of yellow zeros and thus generating no ki to be able to throw in a FoL for the extra undead damage.
===

all in all I recommend at least 12 str.

[PurdueDave]

I always account for enough STR on a finesse character to at least qualify for power attack.

[Zippo]

seriously people we are talking about him giving up +2 damage here.

You all are talking like it is going to be a total gimp cause he is not getting any + damage with str vs. +2. you all have been drinking the dex/wis monks hit like a wet noodle koolaid.
======
to the OP,
I would have said before go with at least 12 to get fire stance 1 but since that isn't required anymore it is up to you.

just remember though while +1 or +2 damage doesn't sound like a lot if you start to add it up over the number of attacks you do is a whole lot.
Next thing to keep in mind is that you will be disadvantaged on some of the lower level DR stuff like zomies. with out the extra damage to get past the DR you will be getting a lot of yellow zeros and thus generating no ki to be able to throw in a FoL for the extra undead damage.
===

all in all I recommend at least 12 str.


You forget about the encumberance that I brought to light along with the smacking the mobs like Moe Howard (I know I said Elton John before but I think Moe is a bit more accurate. Elton John would just run; not fight).

With the 10 str even with a 12 str he will find himself becoming encumbered and quite frequently, and losing all but the basic poke you in the eye abilities. It's not kool-aid it's verity

[Maegin]

Yes, 10 str will suck. change that.

[filippodoyle1974]

i made a dwarf whent 15 str 16 dex 16 con 15 wis

[Maxelcat]

no it wont hurt you.

sorry guys. same build finesse low str high dex.

STR Items are dirt cheep. and the name of the game is hitting things and not getting hit.

personally, I rather hit all the time for d6 and have a high reflex save than to hit all the time and get fire balled in the face.

Though it comes down to what your playing. low STR is a valid build for Rogues since their SA will compensate, but for a fighter its gimped.

though you could "law of small numbers" with a high crit chance with that as a fighter but thats way too much math than i want to do on a sunday morning... there's a program somewhere that works it all out

[hu-flung-pu]

The only way a 10 STR monk is viable is if he can get his monk abilities and finishers DC's up in to the high 30's- low40's. And if you're going that exteme why not take accuracy and hit everything for 2 points of damage relying on your monk abilities.

Encumberance as someone else pointed out, is the biggest failing. Especially on a halfling build. Don't pick up anything heavier then mithral chain or else you'll be encumbered and lose your center, and the ability to fight like a monk and just do the punch-punch-kick combat animation.

You also lose power attack, that extra 5-8 damage per strike makes a difference.

If you have a build in mind, 12 STR is doable, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

seriously people we are talking about him giving up +2 damage here.

You all are talking like it is going to be a total gimp cause he is not getting any + damage with str vs. +2. you all have been drinking the dex/wis monks hit like a wet noodle koolaid.
======
to the OP,
I would have said before go with at least 12 to get fire stance 1 but since that isn't required anymore it is up to you.

just remember though while +1 or +2 damage doesn't sound like a lot if you start to add it up over the number of attacks you do is a whole lot.
Next thing to keep in mind is that you will be disadvantaged on some of the lower level DR stuff like zomies. with out the extra damage to get past the DR you will be getting a lot of yellow zeros and thus generating no ki to be able to throw in a FoL for the extra undead damage.
===

all in all I recommend at least 12 str.

My Str Monk hits like a wet noodle too. :)

Actually, I do not dismiss the power of a Dex Mnk. I was mostly joking above.

I made my first....and I guess only...Monk very middle of the road.
He has decent stats in all the important skills.

Which unfortunately means we will never have a meaningful AC..

And I even feel his Ref save is sub-par.

If I made another, I would seriously raise his Dex.

But another weakness I have, is that even though I have a decent Str.
His DPS is seriously lacking.

At lvl 16, I'm lucky to see 20pt of dmage from a non-crit. And when he crits it's only double that.....very underwhealming IMO.


Yeah, the Ki powers help do additional damage. But unless the monster is noce enough to stand still for me, those effects are very difficult to get to land.

About the only place I feel I can do any decent damage is actually the Shroud.....against the portals. :(
And while I have fun beating on Harry, until I find some Metaline of PG hand wraps, I won't see any decent numbers against him either.

And even if I do. Crits on 19-20 for X2 damage is extemely weak compared to what Brbs are doing.

So....I think Monks need all the Str they can get.

I'm not much for roles in a group, but melee is really all I see a Monk being good for.

And right now, I'm thinking my Monk is doing about the same damage as a Sword and Board Longsword user.

If that.


But he does do better when the bad guy stands still for me to use my Ki powers on him. That's just such a rare thing. :(




(Behold! the awesome power of my Flllllaming!.............miss strike..darn he moved. :( )

[Zippo]

The only way a 10 STR monk is viable is if he can get his monk abilities and finishers DC's up in to the high 30's- low40's. And if you're going that exteme why not take accuracy and hit everything for 2 points of damage relying on your monk abilities.

Encumberance as someone else pointed out, is the biggest failing. Especially on a halfling build. Don't pick up anything heavier then mithral chain or else you'll be encumbered and lose your center, and the ability to fight like a monk and just do the punch-punch-kick combat animation.

You also lose power attack, that extra 5-8 damage per strike makes a difference.

If you have a build in mind, 12 STR is doable, but I wouldn't recommend it.



Well at least someone payed attention to what I was saying about the encumberance.

[Quijonsith]

The first time you fight anything that lowers your strength, like shadows in Necro 2 or beholders, you will not only be encumbered extremely fast and lose your monkness, but you will also be helpless and autocritable. It can happen to me pretty quick and I have 20Str on my Dex build at Level 14.

[filippodoyle1974]

at lvl 20 ill have 20 str 22 dex 20 con 20 wis that with buying tomes for my str and other stats.
you think that work out ok and it just base no gear.

[Greydeath]

Minimum 14 in STR.

So wrong it hurts :rolleyes:

[DarkFlash]

Oh stop the spam about losing +2 dam/etc. The main source of damage is from good handwraps. Just join a vet guild to get some of them and use AH/etc.
Ie. I have
+3 holy GEOB handwraps (Dont know where i got them, maybe vale quests)
+1 5%weighted icy/shocking burst (min lvl12, guild donation, added icy with recipes which are pretty easy to get with a monk)
+5 IB bleeding force (Dreaming Dark normal solo, IB is from recipes)
And every greater bane wraps i can think of. (Same)


IMHO, just make sure you can get power attack and the rest is fine. Keep your gears up-to-date and you wont be encumbered. (And use light path if you want to remove the str/etc. damage)
(Im expecting that your not a halfling)

PS. I started playing when f2p was released.

[r3dl4nce]

You have a +3 STR tome banked for this toon? If yes, you can start with 10 STR.
It's not a matter of damage per-se, it's simply that with 10 STR you need a +3 str tome to qualify for power attack. And as a dex monk you REALLY WANT power attack. So the easiest thing to do is just start with 12 STR and buy/find a +1 str tome and you're ok with power attack.

Regarding crits on monk. I play a wis/dex monk. Started with 12 str. And I can dish out 130-140 on crit. stun(stunning fist or weighted5%)+trembling earth. Just it's a fantastic finisher.

[Dylvish]

no it wont hurt you.

sorry guys. same build finesse low str high dex.

STR Items are dirt cheep. and the name of the game is hitting things and not getting hit.

personally, I rather hit all the time for d6 and have a high reflex save than to hit all the time and get fire balled in the face.

Though it comes down to what your playing. low STR is a valid build for Rogues since their SA will compensate, but for a fighter its gimped.

though you could "law of small numbers" with a high crit chance with that as a fighter but thats way too much math than i want to do on a sunday morning... there's a program somewhere that works it all out

Low str monks are decent if they put their other points into dex and wis, but there is a limit on how 'low' you can go unless you have a tome sitting in the bank.

Just my opinion, but I believe strongly that monks NEED PA. The damage difference is just too much to pass up, and for that you need 13 str.

As for the str / dex debate, its beaten to death on both sides and really comes down to a few pts AC / reflex save vs a few pts damage, encumberance (remember you lose your stances if you become loaded), and unless you take finesse, a few pts +to hit. Either way it adds up, and both offer pros / cons (read: players choice and playstyle, both can be viable)

Please though, for the love of whatever god you follow, do not neglect your Wisdom! Weather your a 1/2ling dex monkey or a Dorf bowling ball with brass knuckles, your finishers start to become incredibly important once you start getting in the 14+ level range, as the mobs DR will start to cut way down on your standard damage.


ok.. all that long windedness aside, to the OP's question, I would start with a 12 minimum, and plan on a +1 tome or a +1 level, regardless of the race. I personally try to start at 14 on anything other than 1/2ling, and even started my dorf with a 15 I believe.

[Zippo]

Oh stop the spam about losing +2 dam/etc. The main source of damage is from good handwraps. Just join a vet guild to get some of them and use AH/etc.
Ie. I have
+3 holy GEOB handwraps (Dont know where i got them, maybe vale quests)
+1 5%weighted icy/shocking burst (min lvl12, guild donation, added icy with recipes which are pretty easy to get with a monk)
+5 IB bleeding force (Dreaming Dark normal solo, IB is from recipes)
And every greater bane wraps i can think of. (Same)


IMHO, just make sure you can get power attack and the rest is fine. Keep your gears up-to-date and you wont be encumbered. (And use light path if you want to remove the str/etc. damage)
(Im expecting that your not a halfling)

PS. I started playing when f2p was released.

You're somewhat right. I agree that most of it comes from the type of hand wraps and level in regards to the damage. But the encumberance becomes a large issue especially when you start dabbling in energy drain type spells. The second you lose too much (mind you that you are already at a large disadvantage from being level drained etc) you lose your monk fighting goodness and you have just become more useless then you already are form the 5 neg levels or what ever the issue is.

[t0r012]

couple points I agree with.

1. Power Attack is very,very good. I don't like the idea of giving it up. (I spent my first level up on str to get it as much as I hated to lose the wisdom)

2. yes carry capacity might be an issue with a halfer but how many pounds difference are we talking between 10 and 12 str?

I think once you start getting some + str items the problem will for the mostly be mitigated.

[Zippo]

couple points I agree with.

1. Power Attack is very,very good. I don't like the idea of giving it up. (I spent my first level up on str to get it as much as I hated to lose the wisdom)

2. yes carry capacity might be an issue with a halfer but how many pounds difference are we talking between 10 and 12 str?

I think once you start getting some + str items the problem will for the mostly be mitigated.

2) IIRC it is about 150lbs or so, even still having run up a couple dex based monks you can get a bit close on carry cap if your not watching.

[SquelchHU]

seriously people we are talking about him giving up +2 damage here.

7.


no it wont hurt you.

sorry guys. same build finesse low str high dex.

STR Items are dirt cheep. and the name of the game is hitting things and not getting hit.

personally, I rather hit all the time for d6 and have a high reflex save than to hit all the time and get fire balled in the face.

Though it comes down to what your playing. low STR is a valid build for Rogues since their SA will compensate, but for a fighter its gimped.

though you could "law of small numbers" with a high crit chance with that as a fighter but thats way too much math than i want to do on a sunday morning... there's a program somewhere that works it all out

If your monk has problems with fireball despite a genuinely high reflex save and improved evasion you're doing it wrong.

With that said your Monk will not get hit often... because all the enemies are aggroed on someone else.

[poonce]

OP, What Race are you planning on going? And why did you want to go Weap Finess over Standard? No matter what you are going to need to get your Str to atleast 13 for Power Attack, Its a Must have feat, You cannot qualify for PA/13 Str from any kind of Enhancment either, so Items Nor Racial/Class Enhancments will get you qualified for PA if you start at 10 Str unless you eat a +3 Str Tome, and then you would still want to keep your Str at an even Number to get more dmg/weight.

So you have a few things to keep in mind, If you could tell use what race you are planning and if you have Tomes to use we could help you further.

[Aziiz]

if losing out on +1 or +2 damage is no big deal, then why bother worrying about Power Attack at all? It's only +5 damage, right? No big deal.

Oh, wait...

I guess it kinda is a big deal.

We are a DPS class, despite most of us who think we are off-tanks. Every potential +anything to damage you can possibly get deserves serious consideration, and imho if all you are giving up is a point or two in AC then the choice is a "no brainer."

Stop thinking of +1 or +2 damage in terms of one hit, and start thinking of it over the course of a minute, or five minutes.

[Hadrian]

if losing out on +1 or +2 damage is no big deal, then why bother worrying about Power Attack at all? It's only +5 damage, right? No big deal.



So, I'll give you 1 or 2 large devil scales and you can give me 5, since magnitude and cost (4 attribute points/one feat spot) are apparently meaningless.

Of course you'd like to do as much damage as possible, but it's about what you're willing to give up. You could go up to 18 strength, which is +4 damage over 10 strength.

Why don't people do that? Obviously, because for most people the costs are too high for the benefits.

It's mostly personal opinion. You won't be gimped over +/- 1 damage per attack, but it could be a problem if it starts to block out feat/stance choices that you might wish to use.

In my case, I wouldn't start below 12 strength simply so that I could reach 14 with a +2 tome and qualify for power attack in the mid levels while getting the benefit of an even str score. In later levels the +3 tome and ToD ring would add and other 2 and keep you even. For that reason, I wouldn't consider starting at 11 +2 tome for power attack unless I happened to plan out my build as a human and knew that my other attributes would be even so that I had a free human attribute enhancement to spend on strength.

[Aziiz]

but it's about what you're willing to give up.

What are you giving up? AC? Who really believes we are off-tanks (answer: nobody)? How useful is that high wisdom for your DC (after twilight vale or reaver's refuge, not very).

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I'm not really following the 2 devil scales for 5 thing either. They appear to be two of the same thing, right? So if i could have 2 devil scales (more strength) AND 5 devil scales (power attack), then it would be better than just having the 5 scales, right? Especially if what you are trading off is some locus husks (a point or two in AC, or a +1 or +2 to your DC's).

Maybe we should dispense with the clumsy analogies and just keep it simple: if you as a player believe your primary contribution to your party should be DPS, then you can't neglect strength or write it off as third tier. If you have some other goal in mind for your monk, then... I don't know what to tell you.

For the record, I'm not a lunatic for Str either, I just personally believe that the people thinking they can build effective monks with relatively low Str are mistaken. Sure, you will be a rockstar in the low and mid levels, and can probably even carry your party('s stones back to the shrine) in the late teen levels, but when you start rethinking your role and wishing you could output a little more dps, it will be very costly to make the changes when you eventually have that seminal change in your thinking.

If you myddo me, aziiz on thelanis, you'll see that I'm pretty well rounded as far as stats go (i think), with Str being tied for the the lowest of our big 4.

[JOTMON]

From the looks of your stats dex/wis ac base is your goal. but a low STR can be bad, becoming encumbered will throw you out of your stance and disable your Wisdon AC bonus.

I would try and start STR at at at least 11( to be able to reasonably attain STR of 13 for Power attack). +2 tomes are not that hard to come by ( you can even buy them in the DDO store). That will allow you to get your power attack at level 7 or so. I never found a use for power attack until higher levels anyway.

+3 Tomes however are a bit more gruelling (a chance to get them on your 20th VOD/Hound/Shroud, I didn't a useful one until my 60th set of raid runs and was a hard choice in shroud vs a cleansing stone.).

High level gear and crafting can get you +3 exceptional str so you will end back up with an even stat. By the time you get +3 tomes, you will be likely be running for +4 tomes from TOD, so focus your +3 tomes on your primary odd stats to even them up for their respective bonuses with endgame in mind.

Grinding for gear is something we will all end up doing so hunting for Icy rainments and greater bane weapons, all those goodies will come with time. alternatives are available until the best stuff is available.. +8 RR bracers at level 13 /+8 bracers at level 15 are extremely valuable i would even consider selling them for the cashflow influx (if i ever managed to pull them that is)and use +7 bracers (abundant and relatively cheap) until you find a level 17/19 set (not quite as costly). Even run with ac6 robes and chaosguardes until you find icy rainments.

[Hadrian]

So if i could have 2 devil scales (more strength) AND 5 devil scales (power attack), then it would be better than just having the 5 scales, right? Especially if what you are trading off is some locus husks (a point or two in AC, or a +1 or +2 to your DC's).

Scales you're holding don't do anything for you in your inventory. I'd rather have made a green steel item and end up with less scales. (To be obtuse right back at ya :p) I stated that the point was that magintude makes a difference. +5 to +1/+2 is a 500%/250% difference, so that could be why one is considered to matter while the other is considered optional. And also cost, since they are both paid for in different ways. There aren't better feats out there to take, but you can get various things by placing your attribute points in other areas.

The idea of a personal choice is that it's up to the individual. You've made your opinion clear, but that doesn't mean that everyone shares it. I'd say a single damage per attack for a single point of AC and reflex save is more than a fair trade for a build that is looking at 65+ AC and 40+ reflex saves.

You want to look at it as +1 damage * number of swings = big number over a big number of swings. Many people want to look at it as a percentage of total damage because they feel that better reflects the effect on their game play. You're as free to disagree with them as they are with you, but treating their point of view with contempt doesn't seem to be necessary.



If you myddo me, aziiz on thelanis, you'll see that I'm pretty well rounded as far as stats go (i think), with Str being tied for the the lowest of our big 4.

Ah. I noticed that you're not wearing any ToD rings. If you want to put out more DPS, this is a good thing to work on.

[filippodoyle1974]

i whent 15 str 16 dex 16 con 15 wis on my dwarf and whent dark path it is holding up good
them i got a few tomes so it help out alot he hit hard

[Arvess]

Hallelujah my forum brethren! you have saved another from the sins of a low strength score. Your work here...is done.

except you guys who advocated sub 12 strength...hiss*

Glad you're enjoying your monk filippo.


*kidding really.

[Dylvish]

i whent 15 str 16 dex 16 con 15 wis on my dwarf and whent dark path it is holding up good
them i got a few tomes so it help out alot he hit hard

Way to go. Welcome to the Dorf brotherhood :)