Ddo 2

[Glorndove]

Ok so , we got the ball rolling it seems on F2P accounts and now the rest of us VIP members are'nt feeling so VI. None the less , it appears the F2P model is working well for DDO. After all it is a great MMO.

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people. Yes its true that someone people dont like the pigeon holing that happens with having to have certain types of classes in a group and for the most part , not doing PURE classes can make things harder for you. This game can allow for people to mess up a build on they're class very very easily.

Overall though , I think most people enjoy the flow of the game elements and not only that , they enjoy the puzzles and difficulty of instances even if they die quite a few times doing them.

From what I gather , this game seems to hinge mostly off its own rules , obviously its to hard to incorporate the same things in the rule books into a MMO , it just would not be as vibrant and often times would be boring.

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that.

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles , more complex scripting , better AI , and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc , complex dungeon designs and very long dungeons with great loot rewards based off the average level of the group would make for a kick ass MMO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design , not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread , just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

[flynnjsw]

I would not move to something if it used the 4th Edition ruleset. I am not going to bash 4th Edition, or your post, or you for that matter. I tried it, I could not get my head around it, and I still prefer 3.5 or Pathfinder 3.75.

If they were to do everything else that you suggested with graphics and everything else, but not go 4E, then I would not have a problem with it.

[Tharris]

Take away the enhancement system full stop.

Put in appropriate loot tables and I will move.

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

Make traps and mob types random.

Basically use the rules as written in the PnP books. Some of the 4th edition rules would be good.

[Mockduck]

I think Turbine is looking more at incremental upgrades to its current game over building a sequel. Seems to make sense in the current commercial environment. From a company perspective, it makes more sense to upgrade a game with an established player base already seeing financial success (at least post DDO:U) over spending millions of dollars to build a new game and then try to see if you can convince your current population to switch over. Just ask Asheron's Call 2! :)

Also, my understanding is that 4th Edition has been a commercial and critical failure of sorts, at least at the moment. I don't see many people talking about how much they love 4th Edition D&D. I personally really like it! But it seems like a big risk to use that rule set, since there are so many "set in stone" opinions about it already.

There has long been talk about whether Turbine would work with Wotc to bring 4th edition rules into DDO. I just don't see it happening, despite 4th edition frequently being described as "MMO ready".

But who knows? I am old enough to remember how poorly the 3.5 ruleset was received early on, and of course nowadays it's considered to be one of the best D&D rule sets out there. I just don't think we'll see a DDO 2 until DDO has run its course, and with Asheron's Call being a decade old at this point, maybe never?

[Josh]

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

None of those are good for PnP characters at 20th + level. Two of them are quite gimp actually.

[KKDragonLord]

I would not move to something if it used the 4th Edition ruleset. I am not going to bash 4th Edition, or your post, or you for that matter. I tried it, I could not get my head around it, and I still prefer 3.5 or Pathfinder 3.75.

If they were to do everything else that you suggested with graphics and everything else, but not go 4E, then I would not have a problem with it.

I was about to agree with you, because after a couple of years or so playing 4e i got extremely dissapointed with it. But then it hit me how the 4e rules could actually benefit an MMO much more than the good semi-old 3e ever could.

In 4e monster stats are completely unrelated to character stats, you can make a thong wearing orc shaman have more AC than a fully plated paladin with a shield. Hes just bad ass like that. This is gives a lot of freedom for DMs and Devs alike. You just have to follow a narrow math progression to balance the encounter.

In 4e Save or Die is practically non existant so every ability has to have some use. The balance of the classes is also narrow mathed, which makes things easier for the Devs.

The weapon tables are very well made giving several great options for several character builds, its really refreshingly varied.

What i hate the most about 4e is pretty much the flavor of it.... super demonic Tieflings all around, the travesty they did to some settings, the new "classes", and... well lots of things.

I would vote for them to make a 4e version of 3.5 DDO, using Eberron as it was on 3e, and keeping the flavor of the game intact. But only IF there was no other way, (since Hasbro is the one who calls the shots and they want 4e to be all there is)

IF possible, i would prefer a 3.75 Turbine edition of DDO, but this time with All the Core Eberron character races, classes (psionics included), Balanced weapon choices, adding support for lesser weapons with feats or enhancements, and 10 times (or more) more monsters and Spells, tweaking spells to make them consistently useful in their level range.

A team of D&D experts would be needed to uncover all the assets of the 3e rules to bring balance to the game in a good way, including monster types, feats selection, magic item properties, prestige classes (PrEs for MCs included), and much more.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think Turbine should learn from experience and definately impliment DDO, it worked so well when they implimented AC2.

[Memnir]

4th edition is a festering bucket of fail.
I won't have a thing to do with it, even if it's DDO2.

Now that the ball is indeed rolling.... let's keep DDO alive and well and expanding.

[dv8maker123]

Bah, give me back my 2nd edition with a -10 AC and THAC0. (and still lose the enhancement system).

[Samiusbot]

But who knows? I am old enough to remember how poorly the 3.5 ruleset was received early on, and of course nowadays it's considered to be one of the best D&D rule sets out there. I just don't think we'll see a DDO 2 until DDO has run its course, and with Asheron's Call being a decade old at this point, maybe never?

Correction, 3.0 was received poorly early on, but people grew to like a lot about it. 3.5 for the most part well received and even liked. But still had moments of fail.

4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Correction, 3.0 was received poorly early on, but people grew to like a lot about it. 3.5 for the most part well received and even liked. But still had moments of fail.

4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

I really enjoyed 3.0. It had a few balance issues that 3.5 cleaned up (really 3.5 was an excuse to sell more books, a few house rules/erata would have fixed it)

4.0... Bought the books, returned the books.

[petegunn]

None of those are good for PnP characters at 20th + level. Two of them are quite gimp actually.

He is not trying to say that those two changes to his character are feasible with the present situation in game, but a scaling down of the players that would coincide with a similar deflation of the npc's .

[Samiusbot]

I tried to use the updates that WoTC had on their site for the changes, as to not buy 3.5 books but there was just so many.

I still would rank 3.5 as the best rules set, but the more I learn about Pathfinder the more I wonder.

[Mockduck]

Correction, 3.0 was received poorly early on, but people grew to like a lot about it. 3.5 for the most part well received and even liked. But still had moments of fail.

4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

That's a good point, but around my area there was a huge backlash against 3.5 as well, with a lot of people saying "get rid of third edition!" They equated 3.0 and 3.5 together, rightly or wrongly. And I also remember a lot of people saying that 3.5 is only for "rules lawyers" and is a mathematical numbers game instead of a role playing game. Not true, but that was the perception in my neck of the woods.

[Doff_v]

Ok so , we got the ball rolling it seems on F2P accounts and now the rest of us VIP members are'nt feeling so VI. None the less , it appears the F2P model is working well for DDO. After all it is a great MMO.

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people. Yes its true that someone people dont like the pigeon holing that happens with having to have certain types of classes in a group and for the most part , not doing PURE classes can make things harder for you. This game can allow for people to mess up a build on they're class very very easily.

Overall though , I think most people enjoy the flow of the game elements and not only that , they enjoy the puzzles and difficulty of instances even if they die quite a few times doing them.

From what I gather , this game seems to hinge mostly off its own rules , obviously its to hard to incorporate the same things in the rule books into a MMO , it just would not be as vibrant and often times would be boring.

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that.

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles , more complex scripting , better AI , and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc , complex dungeon designs and very long dungeons with great loot rewards based off the average level of the group would make for a kick ass MMO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design , not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread , just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

Timing was one big reason it went unnoticed, and is the same reason its flourishing now, good timing. People are bored, and after 4 years DDO is a much more complete game than anything out there, not to mention the D&D rule set allows you to create Uniqueness. Sad truth is that most MMOs out there could use 4 more years of development.

As much as a DDO2 sounds appealing id like to just see them keep improving this game.

[winsom]

DDO 2 would be 4th edition because that is the latest D&D property that Hasbro would insist on.

I would rather play DDO 1 with its similarities to 3E / 3.5 edition D&D.

By all means, Please update DDO with more improvements !

I remember when Everquest 1 was updated with new character avatar models. Sweet !
EVE Online got updated ship models.

DDO needs updated models too. If you have seen turbine's LOTRO character models then you know how DDO looks primative by comparison.

[flynnjsw]

I tried to use the updates that WoTC had on their site for the changes, as to not buy 3.5 books but there was just so many.

I still would rank 3.5 as the best rules set, but the more I learn about Pathfinder the more I wonder.

The group I was playing with started to migrate to Pathfinder (3.75) when 4E was starting to come out in previews. None of us were really very interested in 4E to begin with. We actually ran a couple of the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and I was very impressed.

After that I tried 4E a few times, but like I said I could never get my head around it. However not having played it as much as some I will never blast it just for being not 3.5.

[Samiusbot]

One of the best things in Ddo is the option to use a little of this edition or that edition. And morph it in to ddo.

One of the best examples I can think of was explained to me at a Gencon a few years back.

In 3/3.5 Move silent and hide in shadows were two separate things. Ddo had one feat sneak that more or less was both of these skills together. In 4.0 there is the one hiding skill. I think it is stealth? I don't play a lot of 4.0.

[ddaedelus]

I enjoy DDO, but I honestly do not think that there's much value in producing another D&D based MMO, be it DDO2 or some other reinvention.

I'm convinced that the D&D ruleset (3.5) just doesn't work well for what audiences are demanding in MMOs these days. It doesn't translate well to a different format (MMO vs. PnP) and the rules are just too darn complicated. 3.5 barely works for DDO and even then only after banging it like a square peg into a round hole. (I like the result of that banging, like I said, but I am aware that my tastes can be... uncommon.)

4e may or may not work as a MMO system, but honestly (sadly) I have no inclination to even look at it to find out.

[Uccisore]

Take away the enhancement system full stop.

Put in appropriate loot tables and I will move.

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

Make traps and mob types random.

Basically use the rules as written in the PnP books. Some of the 4th edition rules would be good.

You know, I gotta say I don't think you CAN use the rules in the PnP books and have it work very well as an MMO. You can get close, but...I haven't been through a single instance yet that a character of my class + level should have had a prayer of dealing with in PnP. If you want instances to consist of fights of maybe, 1-2 monsters of your CR per party member per rest point, then fine, use PnP. Anything more action-packed than that, and you're gonna have to make concessions.

[Impaqt]

The engine TUrbine is currently using seems pretty darn flexible. We got DX10 and acording to AMD we will be getting DX11 at some point as well.

I've never been dissapointed in the graphics of DDO.

Any future D&D based game would most assuredly be 4.0 based. I doubt Hasbro/WoTC would be interested in Licencing anyone for 3.5 at this point.

Turbine has also shown that they are not afraid to make big changes in the game to ensure a future. The game we are playing today is essentially 6 months old at this point. Its got a Lot of life left.

I dont see a pressing need for DDO-2. I'd rather see the development time continue improving what we currently have.

[Chelsa]

MMO's are expensive very complicated products to create and DDO more so because of the games collision mechanics. There is a reason other MMO's don't attempt to duplicate DDO's combat system. It is a royal pain in the butt to code and design for.

Even if Turbine got a wild hair and wanted to make DDO2, it doesn't make any sense because the amount of resources it would take to redesign the current game would be better spent making a whole new game dealing with a different genre. It may be a game to us, but it is still a business that must compete and adapt to current market forces.

They have finale stabilized most of the games systems and even though we get some fascinating coding bugs, incremental long term changes will lead to a more stable and long term MMO.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Even if Turbine got a wild hair and wanted to make DDO2, it doesn't make any sense because the amount of resources it would take to redesign the current game would be better spent making a whole new game dealing with a different genre. It may be a game to us, but it is still a business that must compete and adapt to current market forces.
.


You mean like their next game might be Harry Potter?

[Glorndove]

Well , interesting read from everyone , thats for sure.

Well , I was in Everquest when it first came out with Kunark , went through all the changes it had etc , did not mind them at all. They had a long period where they were the king of the MMO industry. There were not tons of MMO's being developed and that helped them to gather a huge following. Which in turn kept more people around longer even after WOW came to the market. Most everyone I talk to that played EQ would love to go back to it , however there is one complaint almost from all , the graphics.

DDO has good graphics and its the basic graphics engine that LOTRO came from but LOTRO has much more detailed scenery and character models. Its the same company , but when you get to the nuts and bolts of it. A graphics engine can only do so much , how much room is there for improvement on this old engine? Saying it can or will get DX 11 to me is not saying much , DX 11 is only small graphics enhancements , how far will that go really?

Its apparent that most of you dislike 4.0 , and I agree its different and from a PnP point of view , I've DMed 3.5 for years , and I got use to it. I love 3.5 , however , as a MMO model pairing , you have to admit 4.0 caters more to that idea. 4.0 does flow better from fight to fight , and there is more mobs to fight per encounter and they are equal to you in level then you know you got a tough fight on your hands. The encounter builder off WOTC works very very well.

In this world MMO's are coming out faster and faster , WOW is the king on the block , how I have no idea. Its a simple design , childish graphics , runs on a toaster , and you can download mods that pretty much remove all guess work out of a raid. I'm 38 years old , was in EQ , we never had **** like that , we had egg timers , UI interface mods that just change the way the windows looked , the game was a challenge and far as I know still is. What ever happened to people wanting more challenging fights , seems like a lost art or something.

I just hope that whatever rule set they decide to use , that if they come out with a DDO 2 , that they dont cater to the masses and make it easy like a WOW model. 12 million or 14 or whatever the rediculous number is , play wow , thats alot of income flowing in and for a business , well , its very lucritive for vivendi and blizzard.

Far as taking what they have and changing it over time , that is cheaper to do but eventually the train does move on. I have years of played time on my EQ druid and I would love so much to get all that time back , I do know people see the time invested as lost when they move to another MMO but its just the way it is. I just wish when we moved , we had a better reason to do so , other than , "Well its new , I'm gonna try it out......". Only to be right back where we left in a month or two.

[ddaedelus]

I just hope that whatever rule set they decide to use , that if they come out with a DDO 2 , that they dont cater to the masses and make it easy like a WOW model. 12 million or 14 or whatever the rediculous number is , play wow , thats alot of income flowing in and for a business , well , its very lucritive for vivendi and blizzard.


While I understand the "They don't make 'em like they used to" complaint, do you even hear what you're saying? "I hope they don't design a game that would appeal to lots of people. That would be terrible." :rolleyes:

Those of use who like niche games are starting to sound like those art house movie fanatics... you know, the ones who wear berets and smoke cloves and drink red zin while bemoaning the death of American cinema and the fact that REM hasn't been alternative since "Green."

You don't really want to be one of those people, do you? I mean, c'mon. Because what you're describing is quickly becoming (if it hasn't already) a niche game.

[Glorndove]

Well , I think its safe to say , I dont really want a new DDO to cater to a lot of people , certainly not to any of the 14 million that play WOW , let them stay there lol.

What I want is a challenging game with great graphics thats loaded with the people that lost a challenge when we all left EQ. Long as there is enough for me to raid with nightly , thats all I need. I'm selfish like that LOL.

Fact is , what I'm asking for is gone , yeah I'm whining , whatever. Its a simple idea from a old MMO addict. GO figure , you would think some game company somewhere would honor that .........................=/.

Its not profitable according to the current MMO models. Therefor it will not happen..............yet.......One day maybe , gd it one day..............

[ddaedelus]

Well , I think its safe to say , I dont really want a new DDO to cater to a lot of people , certainly not to any of the 14 million that play WOW , let them stay there lol.

What I want is a challenging game with great graphics thats loaded with the people that lost a challenge when we all left EQ. Long as there is enough for me to raid with nightly , thats all I need. I'm selfish like that LOL.

Fact is , what I'm asking for is gone , yeah I'm whining , whatever. Its a simple idea from a old MMO addict. GO figure , you would think some game company somewhere would honor that .........................=/.

Its not profitable according to the current MMO models. Therefor it will not happen..............yet.......One day maybe , gd it one day..............



I would really be surprised to see someone come out with a MMO that has the complexity/difficulty of Asheron's Call or even classic WoW. MMOs are way too expensive to produce to allow small market projects.

It's possible that once there emerges a "tried and true and efficient" method for creating these monstrosities that people will start to crank them out with smaller audiences in mind. Perhaps even some things will become open source and mod communities will sprout up the way they did with FPS's. I don't believe we're at that point, however. (There are private servers. Never been a big fan of them. They tend to be really glitchy and not so much mods as hacks. There is also NWN, but as much as I admire the game, PWs do have their limitations.)

[GunboatDiplomat]

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that. Hmm, DDO2.... I'm sure you'd be fabulously successful as an ideas man for Hollywood blockbusters...

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has Crysis engine maybe? , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 Not 60? same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers must.. resist... desire... to... kill, at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO. Yes it would. Thats because 4th ed was designed as a computer game. The only problem is its not really D&D imo. (Although I always hated having to look up the rulebooks when I wanted to grapple a troll. that always slowed down the action. not)

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles God, no, more complex scripting , better AI , Umm, well thats a bit like flying rocket cars and holidays to the moon. Technically possible and everyone wants it but very very diffciult to implement and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc DDO , complex dungeon designs DDO and very long dungeons DDO with great loot rewards ..... would make for a kick ass MMO. Yes it would. It does. Its called DDO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design I see a bright future as a Lead developer, not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO. and Chief Financal Officer.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread Sorry, I was reeeeally bored at work, just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

DDO has some life left in it yet before we have to move on to DDO2 I think.

[Targoth1]

Interesting read, but I think I'll agree with the majority here on several accounts:

1. 4'th edition really sucks.
2. a DDO2 would just split the existing playerbase in half (that is what happened with EQ2 )
3. Incremental improvements and content expansion in the existing game is the way to go.
4. I would really like to see the game engine evolve into its next iteration and get implemented into DDO

Personally I would also enjoy seeing additional world settings added at sometime in the future. I was a big fan of both Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk.

In the short term, more classes, more spells, and more races would be appreciated.

[Uska]

If this became dnd 4E I would either wait for the old republic or accept SWG's invite to come back

[Symar-FangofLloth]

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

Yes, it would make a good MMO ruleset. That's part of the reason so many tabletop players don't like it.
Oh, by the way, 4th Edition gives core rules up to level 30. So, yeah, 20 wouldn't be enough.




4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

TBH, that sounds more like either a DM issue, or still learning the mechanics too much to focus on plot.

[KKDragonLord]

TBH, that sounds more like either a DM issue, or still learning the mechanics too much to focus on plot.

I don't consider myself a "slow"person nor my friends, the mechanics are slow that is a fact, when you cant have a decent combat that takes less than an hour or two it gets difficult to plan a decent dungeon crawl, try running any of the official adventures or following the guidelines from the DMG, and see if you can get through a full session without devoting at the very least 60% of the time for combat. Add higher levels with a lot more complexity and freakishly overpowered characters who never get close to dying and that still doesn't make encounters any faster...

That's my experience with 4e for the last 2 years, and im still waiting on the wizards virtual board tools to make computers do all the stuff that take a long time during combat, instead of the group. Lol, when you want a computer to help you play a game faster so you can focus more on the roleplay you got to know something isn't right.

An RPG where you can even solve most encounters completely by following rules is much more akin to programming than roleplaying. I try my best to work around all this, and its a lot of work, and i still am not satisfied with the results after all this time.

I really liked 4e for making 3e a lot easier to manage, from a DM perspective, but it made it much harder to ignore the complexities of the system during play (which was the best method to streamlining 3e).

I'd still take 2e over any of them any day, it was much less restrictive, empowering to the adjudication of the DM on absolutely everything, actually telling players they should ask the DM to allow them to play some classes (and that was applied on nearly everything).And the joys of 10-30min combats, and 6h of average roleplaying in sessions.

but, as i always say, to each his own.

4e DDO2 would make an excellent WoW clone.
I'm still rooting for 3e on this one, (because i know 2e would be too much to ask)

[Aristalla]

4th edition is a festering bucket of fail.
I won't have a thing to do with it, even if it's DDO2.

Now that the ball is indeed rolling.... let's keep DDO alive and well and expanding.

My name is Aristalla, and I support this statement.

[Primalhowl]

DDO has good graphics and its the basic graphics engine that LOTRO came from but LOTRO has much more detailed scenery and character models.

Just want to point out this is incorrect. DDO is over a year older than LOTRO. So LOTRO's graphics use the DDO engine... and having played both games, the vistas are pretty comparable on the highest settings.

[Dark_Helmet]

4th edition is a festering bucket of fail.
I won't have a thing to do with it, even if it's DDO2.

Now that the ball is indeed rolling.... let's keep DDO alive and well and expanding.

I hate 4.0, but there is a market for it out there as people are playing it so it might work as a game. I just think it will water down the DDO market too much.

BTW, Aren't we already playing DDO2? I mean the rules aren't 3.5 as they advertise.

The simplest thing they could do is implement the 3.5 rules as published (they had a lot of the rules implemented already before they bastardized them), just drop the enhancement stuff, DA, scale back the traps stuff (they've shown they can do that), no store, and, maybe, make all stuff bind to character once taken (power games would just get more PP but not items to twink lower levels). But, that would also water down the DDO market, so I suggest they just concentrate on their bugs, get the game lag fixed so DA isn't needed and create more dungeons (less ice games please).

... here comes that negative rep!

[Dark_Helmet]

Just want to point out this is incorrect. DDO is over a year older than LOTRO. So LOTRO's graphics use the DDO engine... and having played both games, the vistas are pretty comparable on the highest settings.

Actually, LOTRO used newer, optimized coding and it was backloaded (with difficulty) into DDO. They didn't fully implement all of the LOTRO coding as it is written for a different interface/play style. I would point to the dev posts about it, but I don't have it bookmarked anymore.

[TheSnowman]

I'd go right ahead and nip this one in the bud tbh. There would be nearly zero chance of a DDO2.

Even if there was another company entirly would make it.

They could 'upgrade' DDO as other mmo's have done.. but seriously? Cmon, they hardly improve the UI at all, let alone improving the models

Nice idea, not going to happen.

[Trillea]

Bah, give me back my 2nd edition with a -10 AC and THAC0. (and still lose the enhancement system).

Maybe a Hackmaster MMO? That would be cool!

[Uska]

Maybe a Hackmaster MMO? That would be cool!

I would love the World of Hackkraft

[Primalhowl]

Actually, LOTRO used newer, optimized coding and it was backloaded (with difficulty) into DDO. They didn't fully implement all of the LOTRO coding as it is written for a different interface/play style. I would point to the dev posts about it, but I don't have it bookmarked anymore.

True, but the key words there are "optimized coding" meaning they started with something else. I remember reading waaaay back when LOTRO came out that it was based on the graphics engine from DDO with tweaks because of the continuous scenery needed for the different game. Of course, that was many forum prunings ago, so I cannot cite a post and memory is fallible.

But yes, I do remember when they said they were trying to port some of those optimizations back to DDO.

Edited because my spelling sucks...

[suitepotato]

Those of use who like niche games are starting to sound like those art house movie fanatics... you know, the ones who wear berets and smoke cloves and drink red zin while bemoaning the death of American cinema and the fact that REM hasn't been alternative since "Green."


:D:D:D

You sound like Gabriel Shear from Swordfish. And yes, I know exactly who you're talking about. They're a strain related to the ones who can ad lib a four hour dissertation on the social value of Tori Amos songs, and the comic book shop nerds who want to drain your life away extolling the virtues of Neil Gaiman.

If I could cast firewall in RL, there'd be fewer of this breed walking loose.

[Targoth1]

Maybe a Hackmaster MMO? That would be cool!

I still have my Hackmaster decks laying around somewhere.

Never did pick up the rulebooks for the PnP game, but it did look very interesting.

[Letrii]

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

My PnP monk will have 52 ac and do 12d8+30, 12d8+46 if using Power Attack. 5 attacks per round, with 2 at full attack bonus.

[dkrypt]

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people.

Among my friends who play MMO's, DDO is the DDO which existed during original beta. It was terrible and everyone hated it. They all look at me with a mixture of pity and dismissal when I tell them what a good game it is now. First impressions last.

[Josh]

He is not trying to say that those two changes to his character are feasible with the present situation in game, but a scaling down of the players that would coincide with a similar deflation of the npc's .

He said DDO 2 i.e. a new game. Those numbers in a game would be quite boring, as any PnP campaign toons would exceed them around level 12 ish.

[MrkGrismer]

I have to say I like DDO as it is now (with some minor peevs, could use vendors in 3BC and other places, for instance).

I am really looking forward to future updates with DDO, especially more and more quests and areas. If at some point the number of quests/areas in this game actually got to the point where you could get to level 20 without repeating a single one then that would be 'the pie in the sky' for me. :D

[Glorndove]

Just want to point out this is incorrect. DDO is over a year older than LOTRO. So LOTRO's graphics use the DDO engine... and having played both games, the vistas are pretty comparable on the highest settings.


You might want to reread what I said. This time take time to comprehend..........I said that LOTRO's graphics are from the DDO graphics engine , they are just better. Jeez lol

Here I'll post it again , this time , take time reading what I said........

DDO has good graphics and its the basic graphics engine that LOTRO came from but LOTRO has much more detailed scenery and character models.

[Belwaar]

I still think DDO is visually better than LoTRO, but that's jmo.

[SquelchHU]

Ok so , we got the ball rolling it seems on F2P accounts and now the rest of us VIP members are'nt feeling so VI. None the less , it appears the F2P model is working well for DDO. After all it is a great MMO.

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people. Yes its true that someone people dont like the pigeon holing that happens with having to have certain types of classes in a group and for the most part , not doing PURE classes can make things harder for you. This game can allow for people to mess up a build on they're class very very easily.

Overall though , I think most people enjoy the flow of the game elements and not only that , they enjoy the puzzles and difficulty of instances even if they die quite a few times doing them.

From what I gather , this game seems to hinge mostly off its own rules , obviously its to hard to incorporate the same things in the rule books into a MMO , it just would not be as vibrant and often times would be boring.

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that.

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles , more complex scripting , better AI , and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc , complex dungeon designs and very long dungeons with great loot rewards based off the average level of the group would make for a kick ass MMO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design , not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread , just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

-1 rep.

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. The only part of that you got right is that the game is already slow enough that a straight port would be fine for MMOs, but there's no need to make a video game out of something that already is one.


Take away the enhancement system full stop.

Put in appropriate loot tables and I will move.

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high (1), a +5 weapon to be the ultimate (2), 200 HP's are sufficient (3).

Make traps and mob types random.

Basically use the rules as written in the PnP books. Some of the 4th edition rules would be good.

(1) Never was in D&D, unless you never go past level 6 in which case your AC won't hit 40 anyways.

(2) Never was in D&D. Special properties are where it's at.

(3) 200 HP are sufficient for some characters, but not for others. Of course those others can't really get much more... Regardless it amounts to the same thing. Raise Con until you can't 1:1 it anymore, keep a level appropriate life boosting item on. Tomes if you can.

Also appropriate loot tables would result in a whole lot of useless chests. Moreso than now actually.


Also, my understanding is that 4th Edition has been a commercial and critical failure of sorts, at least at the moment. I don't see many people talking about how much they love 4th Edition D&D. I personally really like it! But it seems like a big risk to use that rule set, since there are so many "set in stone" opinions about it already./QUOTE]

It is a commercial and critical failure. Whenever you release something that is supposed to be an upgrade, you have to ensure it actually is one, else people will stick to what they already have. Which is exactly what happened, and exactly why 4th edition has exactly as much (non) presence at cons as other niche type games like Vampire, with the additional caveat you are 100% less likely to sleep with a hot chick after a 4th edition LARP. :P

[QUOTE=Memnir;2736350]4th edition is a festering bucket of fail.

This quote. I must have it in my sig.

*passes out round of rep*

[jasonchrist]

It would not be wise to create a DDO:2 at this point. This game's graphics are not bad, by any means, it has a player base, and it's content is starting to broaden. Starting over is not a good option right now.

On 4.0 vs. past editions of D&D. Idiots stood by 2nd edition when third edition came out. People do not embrace change.

After playing 4th edition, I have found that its merits are in the ease of character creation, the speed of leveling, and the balancing of number of character abilities across classes. I prefer 3.5, because I like the take on multi-classing better than 4th edition's interpretation.

Don't kid yourself; no matter what edition you are playing, the rules are actually the least important part of the game.

[ghostegg]

Take away the enhancement system full stop.

Put in appropriate loot tables and I will move.

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

Make traps and mob types random.

Basically use the rules as written in the PnP books. Some of the 4th edition rules would be good.

As simple to be hard:

1 to 20 levels, lvls 18 - 20 epic, 28 pts start, max mix 3 classes, 200 HP / 1000 SP, 43 AC cap, 43 BA cap;

any improved (saves, stat, skill, ba or ac) stuff goes +1 to +4, (+6 epic), stack only with spells and potions;

basic script for random encounters can be used for traps and mobs;

more "rituals or gems" of power effects or feats in stuff, use random/premium collectables to make rares;

as improved ( +1 to +4 ) have slots (4 to 1) to upgrade.

for all effects in stuff, each bonus carry a penalty and bind to user, only can sell to a vendor;

general ideas.

[ddaedelus]

Don't Kid Yourself; No Matter What Edition You Are Playing, The Rules Are Actually The Least Important Part Of The Game.

+1

[Gleep_Wurp]

its always whats next.the current bussiness model is raising coin for their console game.being as i dont play/own said console games kinda leaves me out on their next model.

[KKDragonLord]

It would not be wise to create a DDO:2 at this point. This game's graphics are not bad, by any means, it has a player base, and it's content is starting to broaden. Starting over is not a good option right now.

On 4.0 vs. past editions of D&D. Idiots stood by 2nd edition when third edition came out. People do not embrace change.

After playing 4th edition, I have found that its merits are in the ease of character creation, the speed of leveling, and the balancing of number of character abilities across classes. I prefer 3.5, because I like the take on multi-classing better than 4th edition's interpretation.

Don't kid yourself; no matter what edition you are playing, the rules are actually the least important part of the game.

Agree on the first point, DDO aint bad visually at all, especially since WoW looked bad even before it launched and its the standard people compare it to.

On the rest though, can't disagree more, and i speak from experience.

Character creation is a hell of a lot more complicated on 4e than 3e ever was, you absolutely have to plan out all your feats, stats, and classes if you want to have a good character, and things are much more co-dependent than in 3e. Theres a truck load of feats, and they add more all the time, and feats are incredibly powerful, so you have to have the right things to get the right feats.

The speed of leveling, certainly would be faster, after all, there is more levels than before, if only the combat system simply wasn't as slow as it actually is. You Should check out Hybrids, it allows a lot more Multiclass customization, 4e is only limited in the number of classes you can take, its much less cheesy in that regard at least.

The balance of 4e is overplayed, as it completely removes many of the unique aspects of other classes, such as wizards, and also because it makes every class look like the same thing with different names for abilities.

And if you believe rules are the least important part, then 2E is the best one for you, because it truly allows a lot more freedom than 4e or even 3e. And its balancing comes from the DM's ruling, not from a written set of rules.

[Gibberishtoo]

I think id rather see
DDO: Forgotten Realms ;)

[Uska]

I still have my Hackmaster decks laying around somewhere.

Never did pick up the rulebooks for the PnP game, but it did look very interesting.

there is a new version out and its pretty sweet

[Uska]

Among my friends who play MMO's, DDO is the DDO which existed during original beta. It was terrible and everyone hated it. They all look at me with a mixture of pity and dismissal when I tell them what a good game it is now. First impressions last.

Umm not everyone hated it but its a better game now

[Flasharte]

I would rather them stick to one ddo game and not have to split resources on another game. I lost money that way with AC2! I'm old and never really got past the 2nd edition of PnP, so im not entirely aware of how closely or not DDO follows the rules, but i do know i like the way it is and would not like to see the rules change.

obviously better AI would make it a better game, too many of us with human brains have completely figured out how the AI works and its really like exploiting the game non-stop. Better graphics, more complicated dungeons, new adventure areas, and remote cities to visit would all be nice additions, but id rather see them on this game than a different one.

But what i'd really like is 50 feet of silk rope, a horse, and a guild hall.

[Tharris]

My PnP monk will have 52 ac and do 12d8+30, 12d8+46 if using Power Attack. 5 attacks per round, with 2 at full attack bonus.


Sorry, you will have to forgive my kiwi speak....

OK, maybe I got the numbers wrong, but to quote a brilliant Australian film "its the Vibe of the thing".

So to summarise, without using numbers.

Use one of the rule sets and keep it as much as possible to the rules in the books. Attack progressions make later swings harder to hit, not easier. Should not be getting +55 on an attack roll at lvl 16.

You even said 2 at full attack bonus, then what happens??????? (its a rhetorical question, I do know the answer :-) )

[jasonchrist]

Character creation is a hell of a lot more complicated on 4e than 3e ever was, you absolutely have to plan out all your feats, stats, and classes if you want to have a good character, and things are much more co-dependent than in 3e. Theres a truck load of feats, and they add more all the time, and feats are incredibly powerful, so you have to have the right things to get the right feats.

The balance of 4e is overplayed, as it completely removes many of the unique aspects of other classes, such as wizards, and also because it makes every class look like the same thing with different names for abilities.


If you are teaching a new player how to play, one with no rping background, character creation has never been easier!

I can't disagree more with your statement of planning so far ahead! Retraining skills, feats and powers are right in the basic rule set! It is a very forgiving system.

The balancing is a double-edged sword for the reasons I stated, and the reasons you stated. I have been encouraging our wizard to try to cook up some rituals and magic items that will help him emulate the versatility that the 3.5 wizard had.



And if you believe rules are the least important part, then 2E is the best one for you, because it truly allows a lot more freedom than 4e or even 3e. And its balancing comes from the DM's ruling, not from a written set of rules.

Freedom has more to do with what the DM allows than what the rules of a specific edition covers. When I run games, the players are the most important characters in the story. When they want to do something, I simply lay out the path. When players think of a creative, outside the box solution, they are rewarded. After characters are generated, the rulebooks are worth little more than providing insight on odds of success.

In my personal opinion, 2nd edition is too complicated for beginners. People that just want to roleplay, and care little about their numbers tend to like things to be as simple as possible as well.

[jasonchrist]

Your Previous Post^

I just noticed you're from Brazil. I spent some time in the tropics this past summer and have been miserable since I've been back; its too cold up north!

[Targoth1]

And if you believe rules are the least important part, then 2E is the best one for you, because it truly allows a lot more freedom than 4e or even 3e. And its balancing comes from the DM's ruling, not from a written set of rules.

I've played every version of D&D since Keep on the Borderlands came out. Of them all, my favorite was 2'nd edition with some fairly extensive house rules.

I did enjoy some aspects of 3'rd edition, such as the prestige classes. 4'th edition looks like an interesting design document for an MMO, I do not, however, consider it to be D&D.

[Letrii]

Sorry, you will have to forgive my kiwi speak....

OK, maybe I got the numbers wrong, but to quote a brilliant Australian film "its the Vibe of the thing".

So to summarise, without using numbers.

Use one of the rule sets and keep it as much as possible to the rules in the books. Attack progressions make later swings harder to hit, not easier. Should not be getting +55 on an attack roll at lvl 16.

You even said 2 at full attack bonus, then what happens??????? (its a rhetorical question, I do know the answer :-) )

Can someone translate this?

[KKDragonLord]

I just noticed you're from Brazil. I spent some time in the tropics this past summer and have been miserable since I've been back; its too cold up north!

Heh you shouldn't come at this time, the summer is waaay too hot this year.

[KKDragonLord]

In my personal opinion, 2nd edition is too complicated for beginners. People that just want to roleplay, and care little about their numbers tend to like things to be as simple as possible as well.

Your points are fair, except for that last one, try running a one-shot these days with just the 2e PHB, its certainly anything But complicated.

1st round, no maps no nothing,"roll d10 for init,add weapon speed", "can i reach the monster?" "yes", "roll d20, 13+3=16, AC 4, do i hit?" "yeah" "greatsword damage 1d10+6=12 dmg" "monster dies".

The time you took reading that is the time a combat round takes, new players dont need to learn anything at first, you can just say, "tell me what you want" and ask them to roll the dice.

In 10 mins normal encounters end, 30 for a complex boss fight, no dealing with minis, tokens, power cards, grids or anything else, and this doesnt break the game, you can even try to trip an enemy without a class power, the DM usually says something like, "make a str check tell me how much you passed by" (decides on a DC4), "alright hes down".

Thats it.

[wolflordnexus]

Your points are fair, except for that last one, try running a one-shot these days with just the 2e PHB, its certainly anything But complicated.

1st round, no maps no nothing,"roll d10 for init,add weapon speed", "can i reach the monster?" "yes", "roll d20, 13+3=16, AC 4, do i hit?" "yeah" "greatsword damage 1d10+6=12 dmg" "monster dies".

The time you took reading that is the time a combat round takes, new players dont need to learn anything at first, you can just say, "tell me what you want" and ask them to roll the dice.

In 10 mins normal encounters end, 30 for a complex boss fight, no dealing with minis, tokens, power cards, grids or anything else, and this doesnt break the game, you can even try to trip an enemy without a class power, the DM usually says something like, "make a str check tell me how much you passed by" (decides on a DC4), "alright hes down".

Thats it.

Seriously I don't have any trouble running 4E encounters because the same people who couldn't wrap their head around the previous editions of the game understand the system. They look at the card it tells em what to roll they roll the die and cool stuff happens.

I don't have to worry about my new guys Dwarven Fighter Feeling impotent next to the Cleric that does everything he can do but better and still throw down implosions and heals because he didn't understand the system. I do miss some of the customization of 3.5 but the game was broken on so many levels it isn't even funny. When playing I constantly had to nerf myself to make sure the game was fun for everything else and as a DM book keeping was a nightmare.

I also like how different classes combo off of each other so well Leaders of course show this often but there's lots of ways other classes can set up a combo with an ally I like that team work is heavily rewarded and my players have learned well how to read the battlefield and set it up to their liking.

[Schmoe]

The group I was playing with started to migrate to Pathfinder (3.75) when 4E was starting to come out in previews. None of us were really very interested in 4E to begin with. We actually ran a couple of the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and I was very impressed.

After that I tried 4E a few times, but like I said I could never get my head around it. However not having played it as much as some I will never blast it just for being not 3.5.

I really like Pathfinder a lot. The overhaul of the classes makes a character's full career interesting, unlike in 3.5 where "dead levels" are frequent. That's part of the reason Turbine implemented enhancements, so using the Pathfinder rules would help to alleviate the pressure to keep players interested in character progression. Pathfinder really has a lot going for it, not the least of which are the absolutely top-notch designers they have at Paizo.

I tried 4e but it really fell flat for me. It felt much more like a board game with a little story tacked on, like a Warhammer Quest type of game. With 3E, I always felt like it was a role-playing game where a battlemat was a helpful, though unnecessary, aid. With 4E, I felt like the battlemat WAS the game.

While I'd love to see a DDO2 that stuck closer to PnP rules (true Prestige Classes, more meaningful skill usage, etc), at this point I think it's a wiser move for Turbine to build up their current game.

[Drfirewater79]

I think Turbine is looking more at incremental upgrades to its current game over building a sequel. Seems to make sense in the current commercial environment. From a company perspective, it makes more sense to upgrade a game with an established player base already seeing financial success (at least post DDO:U) over spending millions of dollars to build a new game and then try to see if you can convince your current population to switch over. Just ask Asheron's Call 2! :)

Also, my understanding is that 4th Edition has been a commercial and critical failure of sorts, at least at the moment. I don't see many people talking about how much they love 4th Edition D&D. I personally really like it! But it seems like a big risk to use that rule set, since there are so many "set in stone" opinions about it already.

There has long been talk about whether Turbine would work with Wotc to bring 4th edition rules into DDO. I just don't see it happening, despite 4th edition frequently being described as "MMO ready".

But who knows? I am old enough to remember how poorly the 3.5 ruleset was received early on, and of course nowadays it's considered to be one of the best D&D rule sets out there. I just don't think we'll see a DDO 2 until DDO has run its course, and with Asheron's Call being a decade old at this point, maybe never?

I agree i dont think they will make a second DDO cause everything we want in DDO2 was early DDO.

unfortunatly of early DDO to have worked out well they would have had to had these fast updates happen for longer then one year (again new DDO hasnt been around a year yet so they have plenty of time to screw up again) and they just bought console rights and some super secret other big name property which we know isnt star trek or star wars but likely harry potter for new MMO.

I dont see them going all EQ on us but the game is already hitting alot of AC2 heart strings from people i talk to .... personally from my experiences with Turbine and Atari in the last 4 years ... I prolly wouldnt pay to play another Turbine game mmo or other wise again ... only reason i stick around here is cause i like my guild mates and love DnD and right now there is no better fantasy mmo on the market.

[Mithreinmaethor]

I dont think Eberron will be the choice for a 4th edition MMO. Forgotten Realms is still by far the most popular D&D setting and I would think that that is the way they will go with it.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Forgotten Realms!

Or has the rumor mill stopped?
We were hearing rumblings about this 2 years ago, and it takes that long to make a game, so....

[Targoth1]

I don't have to worry about my new guys Dwarven Fighter Feeling impotent next to the Cleric that does everything he can do but better and still throw down implosions and heals because he didn't understand the system. I do miss some of the customization of 3.5 but the game was broken on so many levels it isn't even funny. When playing I constantly had to nerf myself to make sure the game was fun for everything else and as a DM book keeping was a nightmare.

You should try running a Rolemaster campaign.

[samthedagger]

I'm not really into the concept of DDO2. Hasbro would definitely insist on 4th edition rules, which I have to admit is a deal-breaker for me. 4th edition may be a decent enough game, but it doesn't feel anything like any edition of AD&D/D&D ever did to me. I saw 3rd edition as kind of a renaissance, with the return of the monk and assassin as basic rules options, so in that sense it was kind of like a return (as far as style goes) to the days of 1st edition AD&D. 4th edition is just a complete departure from everything that even made D&D the game it is supposed to be.

Back to DDO though. The game works great. It looks great. It plays great. There is room for improvement, but I would prefer content-based improvement. Let's see kalashtar, shifters, and changelings. Let's see artificers, druids, and psions. Let's see new quests and adventure packs. Let's see more Eberron-based items. Heck, let's see a Sharn-based arm of the game. If you're going to make changes to the display-related elements, let's have more unique animations for armor and gear. All +1 full plate looks the same. Add a few variants for each type of random item, or add a few variants based on special effects like fire guard.

There's still tons of stuff they could add to DDO that would keep my interest in it fresh without having to make a completely new game.

[MrWizard]

I have a large number of friends who play wow. Their main contention with coming over is not whether it is that much better or not, but all the time they invested in their toons and playstyles there.

To come here and be a noob, while also playing there at wow would compromise their playing time.

They are set in their ways it appears.

And when this came out, everyone lambasted it because they were so used to wow. Those guys I talk to still remember and repeat the things they said 4 years ago.

It takes time..


I remember when there were few lfms up at anytime, now....I can just check my level and see on average 5 to 10 lfms....just for my level range.

WOW.

It is coming along...and is almost real fun to play (can I buy my last 4 levels so I can TR please!!!!! grinding a gimp is horrid).

[Salsa]

I dont think Eberron will be the choice for a 4th edition MMO. Forgotten Realms is still by far the most popular D&D setting and I would think that that is the way they will go with it.

Nah FR has too many books and stories on it, it would limit the story telling. Why should we do anything, the Chosen can take care of it. Maybe even the Harpers. There is always Drizzit and his groupies. The bad guys are push overs, heck Bane's Avatar, a GREATER GOD, got killed by a mortal! Overly populated by good guys with too many perks.


GH is the way to go. Huge world, lots of possibilities and adaptability. Tons of old modules that can be reworked into it. Lots of directions for bad guys.

And, as you said, if FR is more popular atm, not only should the license for GH be cheaper but it will be somewhere new for all those that have played thru FR in the countless FR games.

[Gulnar13]

If they make a DDO2, i want Bhaal back.

[Kaganfindel]

I love 4E for tabletop play. I won't go back to 3.5. The reason for that is that the system is simple and balanced, removing the need for system mastery and extensive reference material. I can play whatever kind of character I want and it's balanced and viable, and only requires me to carry my dice, a piece of paper and a handful of cards. I get to focus on the dynamics of the world, and my character as a character.

I love 3.5 for MMORPG play, and wouldn't even consider a 4E MMORPG for the same reasons. See, MMORPG game worlds are necessarily static. Character archetypes are pregenerated. System mastery is part of the challange of gameplay, and learning how to perform the roles laid out. Since the reference material is all off my back, stored on a database and consulted automatically, the complicated game system is an enhancement instead of an encumbrance. I can't focus on the dynamics of the world, and my character is a pile of numbers I built myself, so I am engaged as a player by building that pile and learning the system and working it.

TL;DR version: Tabletop is all about streamlined crunch and open ended fluff. 4E provides that admirably. MMORPGs are all about open ended crunch and static, prewritten fluff. 3.5 provides that admirably.

[Mithreinmaethor]

I have played every edition since 1977.

4th edition is the closest to 1st edition that I have found, in so much that it gives you basicr rules on how to manage stuff and the rest is left to roleplaying.

I always laugh when I see people post about its just about moving pieces around etc with no story. Thats not the editions problem its your crappy DM's problem. And more than likely it is only people going into trying the game halfheartedly.

3.x was the worst edition ever with 1st edition being my favorite.

[Bladecutter563]

In 4e monster stats are completely unrelated to character stats, you can make a thong wearing orc shaman have more AC than a fully plated paladin with a shield. Hes just bad ass like that. This is gives a lot of freedom for DMs and Devs alike. You just have to follow a narrow math progression to balance the encounter.


The AC is so high because the character can't look at the orc Shaman wearing a thong. I sure wouldn't.

As for editions, I don't care. I like 2E, 3E, 3.5E, interested in 4E rules but not how some of the settings turned out. Never tried 1E.

But I doubt they'll be going to DDO2 anytime soon. DDO is working just fine, minus lag and memory issues.

[Ashurr]

4e could have been written by my 2 year old grandson.

"Okay Connor, now write grandpa a story about what you think Dungeons and Dragons is about, okay?"



No.

[Oreg]

I'd prefer they spend their time developing more content and fixing bugs in this version rather than developing a second DDO. Similar to what they are doing now:)

I think I just defended Turbine. Simply amazing:eek:

[Mindspat]

If we're to compare DDO at launch to how it is today we could probably conclude this already is DDO 2.

[TheJusticar]

Ok so , we got the ball rolling it seems on F2P accounts and now the rest of us VIP members are'nt feeling so VI. None the less , it appears the F2P model is working well for DDO. After all it is a great MMO.

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people. Yes its true that someone people dont like the pigeon holing that happens with having to have certain types of classes in a group and for the most part , not doing PURE classes can make things harder for you. This game can allow for people to mess up a build on they're class very very easily.

Overall though , I think most people enjoy the flow of the game elements and not only that , they enjoy the puzzles and difficulty of instances even if they die quite a few times doing them.

From what I gather , this game seems to hinge mostly off its own rules , obviously its to hard to incorporate the same things in the rule books into a MMO , it just would not be as vibrant and often times would be boring.

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that.

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles , more complex scripting , better AI , and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc , complex dungeon designs and very long dungeons with great loot rewards based off the average level of the group would make for a kick ass MMO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design , not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread , just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

4e has been a bit of an Epic Fail for WotC. Most PnP groups I know have tried running campaigns under the 4e ruleset and have been underwhelmed to say the least. Many have left campaigns midway and have gone back to 3.x rulesets.

We DON'T need DDO2, we need DDO fixed. I could care less for better graphics. We already have amazing graphics with DX10 max quality graphics. The time investment players have made in DDO will almost assuredly not move to a DDO sequel. Look at AC2 and EQ2 if you want proof.