Should we really be suprised?

[Arlith]

For four years we have been screaming at Turbine, "Your going to break the game!"

Attack animation change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Trip nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Evasion change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Removing the few really difficult challenges in lower level quests - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!" (Needed to say that twice)

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Everything I missed - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

For years we have been screaming about them breaking the game. Really, honestly, can you say you are suprised when they actually do it?

Just asking.

I find it kind of funny. I htink they broke things that weren't even addressed by the update. Just wow.

[DragonMageT]

Not really surprised. It's starting to become the norm instead of an exception.
What is surprising is that heads don't roll over some of the big mistakes. Maybe they do and we just don't hear about it.

I work in IT (Network Engineer) in a 24/7/365 shop and if I did some of that ****, I would be in someones office getting my you know what chewed out. If I kept making mistakes, FIRED.

What is also surprising is that bugs are not caught during testing (if they do such a thing).
A few bugs can get by, no big deal, but man this update 3 seems to have many.

You know the standard Development System -> Test Servers -> Production Servers scenario.
And the Test server should be Lamannia server, I know it's a preview server but it should be the
test server with the ability for players to play on and at least keep their gold, xp, and levels being pushed back
to production servers, not that difficult. Many of the bugs would be found and reported in such a scenario.

Seriously, you push out an update and TOR is closed, drops rates broken, casual difficulty is broken (which I didn't care for anyway), TR disabled, etc.. These seem like pretty easy things to notice during testing.

Nerfing things is also starting to become the norm.

Just my 2 cents worth, maybe I am jealous that their IT dept. can get away with it and I can't :)

[ArichValtrahn]

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

[Draccus]

Unless this is your first MMO...or even your first computer game, you shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

The computer industry, unlike any other industry I can think of, has an massive tolerance for knowingly releasing flawed products to the public and either ignoring the issues or fixing them slowly and incompletely.

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

I've been playing MMO's for 12 years. Turbine is no better or worse when it comes to breaking their game and releasing bugs than any other game company.

[Zereth501]

Unless this is your first MMO...or even your first computer game, you shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

The computer industry, unlike any other industry I can think of, has an massive tolerance for knowingly releasing flawed products to the public and either ignoring the issues or fixing them slowly and incompletely.

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

I've been playing MMO's for 12 years. Turbine is no better or worse when it comes to breaking their game and releasing bugs than any other game company.

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Wait are you saying that's not Turbine signature move?

[rimble]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

They used to stack. It was pretty ridiculous.

[Club'in]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

Also, you used to be able to cast it at a door, and it would roast everything on the other side. Same with the fog type spells, like Cloudkill.

[Thrudh]

For four years we have been screaming at Turbine, "Your going to break the game!"

Attack animation change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Trip nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Evasion change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Removing the few really difficult challenges in lower level quests - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!" (Needed to say that twice)

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Everything I missed - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"


None of those things broke the game... I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us...

Think of all the changes where people screamed and moaned and cried like 4-year old girls... And in many of those cases, the game got better (enhancement changes, etc.)

If I was a dev, I would tune out of most of the crybabies as well...

[Thrudh]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

Exactly.

[Memnir]

Surprised by it? Not really. Not anymore.
Dismayed, disheartened, and demoralized? Yeah, that still happens. At least when it's on the raw scale of yesterdays clustermung. One or two major problems/really bad decisions in an update is par for the course - but this is tragically comic how much has tanked in Update 3. I, at least, got the feeling that more than one person was asleep behind the wheel on this one...

[Arlith]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

They used to stack. And you used to be able to buy scrolls of it, so anyone with a midway decent UMD could firestorm a village.


None of those things broke the game... I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us...

I did not say those changes broke the game. I said we screamed it at them when they did it. But this last mod? This is reminiscent of early mods that had bugs that shut parts of/ or the whole game down for extended amounts of time. I had thought we were past this.

Mostly I am mad at how it is handled. Saying this and that is coming in Mod 3, and having important, waited for, bragged about features not included? Then saying, "well we said update 3, we didn't say WHICH update 3." Bah. They screwed the pooch on this one. But you know what, I can be okay with that. IF you come out and say, "Hey, it looked good on paper, it looked good on the test server, and it looked good on the preview server. We put it over here and stuff blew up. We will fix it."

Don't say, "Updates work differently now." or any other bullsquat. We get enough of that from the government.

[bartcom2000]

lol...all of this is why i do not log into the game for several days after an update. I let them push the update, I then watch the mayhem on the forums till it dies down, then i let them push the patch or hot fix, then I watch the forums for the "thank god its working now" threads....then BAM!!!! I log in, update, and play...no hastles...

Funny thing though.. MWF2 never has these issues.. we had a patch that semi-nerf'd a shotgun and I never even noticed it update, never skipped a beat.
the Akimbo 1887's were waaaayyy toooo deadly from stupid distances.....

[binnsr]

Unless this is your first MMO...or even your first computer game, you shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

The computer industry, unlike any other industry I can think of, has an massive tolerance for knowingly releasing flawed products to the public and either ignoring the issues or fixing them slowly and incompletely.

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

I've been playing MMO's for 12 years. Turbine is no better or worse when it comes to breaking their game and releasing bugs than any other game company.

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

whoa, easy tiger!! Before you get all excited about neg repping folks, there's a difference between enterprise financial software and consumer-level software.

The software industry has a propensity, in general, to release buggy, incomplete software. As an example, Windows 2000 launched with 63,000 known bugs (give or take a thousand) -- those were just the ones that they knew about and deemed not worth slipping the timeline to fix prior to launch..

How many PC games (MMO or otherwise) have you purchased in the last couple of years that didn't have patches within the first few months?
Heck, you can go down to WalMart and pick up any game off the $9.99 shelf and have a 50% chance of it not even installing properly on a system that meets it's 'Recommended Specs'

[Memnir]

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.And you should!
I mean, he was obviously talking about you, taking a potshot at you, and disparaging you personally!


:rolleyes:

[Ministry]

WHEW! I must really, REALLY be lucky as I narrowly escaped the wrath of your negative rep. I don't know WHAT I would have done had you negative rep'd me!

You, on the other hand, are not so lucky...

Mwahahahahah!

Now that's good.

+1

OMG... you escaped his wrath, could -1 him and got +1 for making me laugh hysterically... all in all, not a bad day's work.

:)

[Missing_Minds]

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

Depends on your industry. Where I'm at, SW mistakes could cost people's lives. Software is also the few industries where your kid neighbor that still hasn't gone through puberty could publish something that gets used by 1,000s of people.


I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

Well... better to wish to give neg rep than to change the applications for a pay deduction. *chuckles*

[Doff_v]

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

Well when they make the Next Finance and Managment MMO ill have you to thank when it runs perfectly and no patch ever has a Bug!

I have a level 7 Micrsoft Excel Spreadsheet with a level 2 Cost accounting software Linked to a level 5 Time Managment Software, my guy is Uber and my GL Is Balanced to boot!

Seriously if your so good get hired by turbine and fix it.

:)

[Raelg14]

Well when they make the Next Finance and Managment MMO ill have you to thank when it runs perfectly and no patch ever has a Bug!

I have a level 7 Micrsoft Excel Spreadsheet with a level 2 Cost accounting software Linked to a level 5 Time Managment Software, my guy is Uber and my GL Is Balanced to boot!

Seriously if your so good get hired by turbine and fix it.

:)


ROFL, **** used all my rep for the day to the previous posters in the thread, but thats funny. +1 Rep for you when I can.

[Zereth501]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore.

A typical video game is a marvel of engineering to begin with. It typically requires more than ten years of experience in programmation, high skills with mathematics for 3d and physics engines, and a whole lot of other technical skills. It also takes artists who know how to work with limited resources, and management that can handle all of those. It amounts to 2, 3 years of hard work for about 15 persons. MMO are even harder to make : you have to make the whole thing run on an infrastructure able to withstand thousands of concurrent access in real time, and somehow make sure that no amount of system crash or deliberate hacking on a client is going to even be noticed by other players. And DDO might have been the hardest of them all : it combines massively multiplayer features with twitch gameplay, which is very hard to pull off. It must be done on a budget, with little money, little time and too few people. Not to mention the fact that DDO is based on D&D 3.5, which is a nightmare.

An incredible amount of effort went, and still goes into this game. Yet all I ever see on the forums is whining and more whining. I only saw three topics saying it is a good game, one of which I had to start myself.

The whole software profession feels underappreciated. Why are the bugs / balance issues not fixed yet? Imagine for an instant working at Turbine. It's 8:00 pm and you have just read the forums. Do you feel like staying late at work fixing the game or going back home?

... I don't even know why I bother. I can already read the following posts nitpicking at everything I said or missing the point entirely. At least I tried.

Everything is easy for those who do not have to do it.

EDIT : I just posted this, and the first topic I see on the recent subjects list is Awesome job turbine for employing imbeciles to deal with in-game issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=229074)

[ertlif]

I kinda agree with you Zereth.

Mainly what people don't understand is that ...

SOME OF US PAY FOR THE GAME, even though if u become VIP for only a month, or buy TPs every now and then, there are 2 things you cannot avoid:

1) Time is not for free, i don't like spending 2 hours in a quest to have a must-kill creature stuck on a door that closed on it or because the final mummy to kill is bugged inside the coffin or w/e

and

2) Who is going to pay me back the lost VIP time i get wasted when the server is down because the update was flawed?


Some people in the forums say "dont complain, dont whine" or "if u think that way then why don't u fix it"

First af all, ppl complain all the time, its called "feelings", and humans tend to puke em out as much as they can, deal with it, don't complain about complainers.
Second, i'm an Oracle Database Administrator and a Junior programmer, do you think that gives me any saying on this game or on anything ever? The answer is "W/E", neither yes nor no. Being a DBA makes me appreciate a lot the work Turbine has put into this game, but before a DBA, im a gamer and a customer, and man.... it sucks to pay 15 dollars here in Argentina to suddenly realize i can't play Tor anymore and that the game is flawed in many ways (and dont get me started on DA, jeeeeeeez).


In conclusion, i love DnD, i love this game, its the best d20 system based MMORPG i've ever played, but as time goes by, i'm more and more sure this game should be completely free.

[Gunga]

For four years we have been screaming at Turbine, "Your going to break the game!"

Attack animation change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Trip nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Evasion change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Removing the few really difficult challenges in lower level quests - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!" (Needed to say that twice)

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Everything I missed - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

For years we have been screaming about them breaking the game. Really, honestly, can you say you are suprised when they actually do it?

Just asking.

I find it kind of funny. I htink they broke things that weren't even addressed by the update. Just wow.

I remember people screaming that these things WERE GOING TO break the game.

They didn't.

The game is better than ever.

/doomfail

[Doff_v]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore.

A typical video game is a marvel of engineering to begin with. It typically requires more than ten years of experience in programmation, high skills with mathematics for 3d and physics engines, and a whole lot of other technical skills. It also takes artists who know how to work with limited resources, and management that can handle all of those. It amounts to 2, 3 years of hard work for about 15 persons. MMO are even harder to make : you have to make the whole thing run on an infrastructure able to withstand thousands of concurrent access in real time, and somehow make sure that no amount of system crash or deliberate hacking on a client is going to even be noticed by other players. And DDO might have been the hardest of them all : it combines massively multiplayer features with twitch gameplay, which is very hard to pull off. It must be done on a budget, with little money, little time and too few people. Not to mention the fact that DDO is based on D&D 3.5, which is a nightmare.

An incredible amount of effort went, and still goes into this game. Yet all I ever see on the forums is whining and more whining. I only saw three topics saying it is a good game, one of which I had to start myself.

The whole software profession feels underappreciated. Why are the bugs / balance issues not fixed yet? Imagine for an instant working at Turbine. It's 8:00 pm and you have just read the forums. Do you feel like staying late at work fixing the game or going back home?

... I don't even know why I bother. I can already read the following posts nitpicking at everything I said or missing the point entirely. At least I tried.

Everything is easy for those who do not have to do it.

EDIT : I just posted this, and the first topic I see on the recent subjects list is Awesome job turbine for employing imbeciles to deal with in-game issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=229074)

See this is why I made my last comment in this post, an MMO is much more complex than most any software since you have Several IT infrastructures working withing one Software exactly How you mentioned.

I always log in to the forums after a patch to save myself trouble. Usually there are so many people whining about bugs that I am able to avoid problems for myself. I Have played enough MMOs to know this stuff happens, and I am Sure Turbine would absolutly LOVE a bug free patch, but its very hard to accomplish in MMOs.

People seem to think that MMO companies dont want to fix this problem, but I bet there are teams of people working very hard to avoid major issues, ones we never see because they actually were caught in testing. At the same time however I also see where people complaining are coming from as well. I mean when a Bug is caught on a test server then makes it to the Live game you have ask what the heck?

I expect bugs in games like this after the patch, do I wish there werent any? Of course, im sure it will continue to get better.. at least hope so anyhow.

Doff

[BracchusBridgeburner]

I hope this thread wasn't honestly meant to be serious :confused:

None of the things you listed come even remotely close to the nerfs I've seen on other MMO's and I've logged an obcenely sickening amount of MMO time in an unhealthy number of them. Then when that was pointed out to you, you switched gears and said you don't think they broke the game either but that there was too much server downtime fixing bugs.

Really.

I've yet to see another MMO that has less time offline than DDO.

In the end, the only thing that would suprise me is if this was an MMO forum that actually didn't have people complaining about insignificant issues. Now THAT would be a surprise!

[Arlith]

I hope this thread wasn't honestly meant to be serious :confused:

None of the things you listed come even remotely close to the nerfs I've seen on other MMO's and I've logged an obcenely sickening amount of MMO time in an unhealthy number of them. Then when that was pointed out to you, you switched gears and said you don't think they broke the game either but that there was too much server downtime fixing bugs.

In the end, the only thing that would suprise me is if this was an MMO forum that actually didn't have people complaining about insignificant issues. Now THAT would be a surprise!

1. Updates to other MMO's, worse or better have no bearing on this last update.

2. I don't care about other MMO's. So bugs on them, be they more or less, are of absolutely no interest to me.

3. They may seem insignificant to you, being used to much greater, more dire, world shattering MMO bugginess. They are not to me.

4. I am hardly ever serious.

[Kaeldur]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore.

A typical video game is a marvel of engineering to begin with. It typically requires more than ten years of experience in programmation, high skills with mathematics for 3d and physics engines, and a whole lot of other technical skills. It also takes artists who know how to work with limited resources, and management that can handle all of those. It amounts to 2, 3 years of hard work for about 15 persons. MMO are even harder to make : you have to make the whole thing run on an infrastructure able to withstand thousands of concurrent access in real time, and somehow make sure that no amount of system crash or deliberate hacking on a client is going to even be noticed by other players. And DDO might have been the hardest of them all : it combines massively multiplayer features with twitch gameplay, which is very hard to pull off. It must be done on a budget, with little money, little time and too few people. Not to mention the fact that DDO is based on D&D 3.5, which is a nightmare.

An incredible amount of effort went, and still goes into this game. Yet all I ever see on the forums is whining and more whining. I only saw three topics saying it is a good game, one of which I had to start myself.

The whole software profession feels underappreciated. Why are the bugs / balance issues not fixed yet? Imagine for an instant working at Turbine. It's 8:00 pm and you have just read the forums. Do you feel like staying late at work fixing the game or going back home?

... I don't even know why I bother. I can already read the following posts nitpicking at everything I said or missing the point entirely. At least I tried.

Everything is easy for those who do not have to do it.

EDIT : I just posted this, and the first topic I see on the recent subjects list is Awesome job turbine for employing imbeciles to deal with in-game issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=229074)

I agree... People who don't work with software engineering have no idea what it is... Many people probably think to develop software all you gotta do is have an idea and write some little doodle and the program will magically appear working 100% fine.

Many people only know how to complain and never recognize hard work where it's done. I back your statement, as I, myself, work with Computer Graphics. Like you said, a simple silly game can require great skills in several areas (math, physics, logic, programming). Another known issue is that, contrary to other professions, since some smarty decided to compare, in software engineering budgets are always less than they should be, have less people to work on it and deadlines usually can never be pushed, so you have to rush to release it and have no time to clean up bugs. In civil engineering the most common thing to happen is a building being delayed for months...

Just be thankful that the folk that make computer software hold themselves to their deadlines unlike the folks the "real engineers and manufacturers".

Because if not we'd still be running around a perfectly shiny bug free Korthos Island at lvl 4 cap with only fighters and wizard class, yay!

To each their own.

[BracchusBridgeburner]

1. Updates to other MMO's, worse or better have no bearing on this last update.

2. I don't care about other MMO's. So bugs on them, be they more or less, are of absolutely no interest to me.

3. They may seem insignificant to you, being used to much greater, more dire, world shattering MMO bugginess. They are not to me.

4. I am hardly ever serious.

If I were to expend any effort in speaking to you about the concept of looking at something in terms of a theoretical vacuum rather than an actual real relevant application would I be wasting my time? The point is simply that in order to complain about update bugs on an MMO, you have to first acknowledge that this is an issue inherent to MMO's. You can't just 'pretend' that DDO is the only MMO in a vacuum devoid of anything else like it. And since that's not the case, once again, you are getting off pretty easily with this game. Otherwise you're complaining just for the sake of complaining and have no solid base for it, tantamount to covering your eyes and ears and yelling "nanana I can't heeeeeaaar youuuuuu"

[Arlith]

If I were to expend any effort in speaking to you about the concept of looking at something in terms of a theoretical vacuum rather than an actual real relevant application would I be wasting my time? The point is simply that in order to complain about update bugs on an MMO, you have to first acknowledge that this is an issue inherent to MMO's. You can't just 'pretend' that DDO is the only MMO in a vacuum devoid of anything else like it. And since that's not the case, once again, you are getting off pretty easily with this game. Otherwise you're complaining just for the sake of complaining and have no solid base for it, tantamount to covering your eyes and ears and yelling "nanana I can't heeeeeaaar youuuuuu"

Just because other MMO's exist does not mean that I need to expect less from the one I play for the sole reason that those others suck.

I do acknowledge that with programmng on this scale, nothing is right the first time. That does not change the fact that implementation of THIS UPDATE sucked. Don't know why, don't care. I am not canceling my sub, or threatening to leave, or even screaming doom, because it is still the only game out there that holds my interest. But they will hear that they did a shyttie job all around on this update, and they need to pull their head out of whatever it is stuck in and step up for the next one.

I guess some folks are okay with rationalizing, "it's okay if this game sux, because that game over there sux a lot more!"

[BracchusBridgeburner]

Where are you getting rationalizing from? You made it sound as if you were hard done by because the update had some kinks in it that resulted in some server downtime. That's inherent to all MMO's. Pointing out that DDO suffers a lot less downtime than the others when it's a problem you will get no matter which one you play is hardly rationalizing. When so many people have responded negatively to your thread does it occur to you that perhaps you are the commnon denominator and not DDO? Sounds like you just have your mind made up to be malcontented without just cause. You haven't even provided anyone with a valid argument to back up your position.

[Wren666]

funny. He Insults A Whole Profession For A Few Bugs In His Game And Somehow I Am The Bad Guy. No Wonder Turbine Does Not Listen Anymore.

A Typical Video Game Is A Marvel Of Engineering To Begin With. It Typically Requires More Than Ten Years Of Experience In Programmation, High Skills With Mathematics For 3d And Physics Engines, And A Whole Lot Of Other Technical Skills. It Also Takes Artists Who Know How To Work With Limited Resources, And Management That Can Handle All Of Those. It Amounts To 2, 3 Years Of Hard Work For About 15 Persons. Mmo Are Even Harder To Make : You Have To Make The Whole Thing Run On An Infrastructure Able To Withstand Thousands Of Concurrent Access In Real Time, And Somehow Make Sure That No Amount Of System Crash Or Deliberate Hacking On A Client Is Going To Even Be Noticed By Other Players. And Ddo Might Have Been The Hardest Of Them All : It Combines Massively Multiplayer Features With Twitch Gameplay, Which Is Very Hard To Pull Off. It Must Be Done On A Budget, With Little Money, Little Time And Too Few People. Not To Mention The Fact That Ddo Is Based On D&d 3.5, Which Is A Nightmare.

An Incredible Amount Of Effort Went, And Still Goes Into This Game. Yet All I Ever See On The Forums Is Whining And More Whining. I Only Saw Three Topics Saying It Is A Good Game, One Of Which I Had To Start Myself.

The Whole Software Profession Feels Underappreciated. Why Are The Bugs / Balance Issues Not Fixed Yet? Imagine For An Instant Working At Turbine. It's 8:00 Pm And You Have Just Read The Forums. Do You Feel Like Staying Late At Work Fixing The Game Or Going Back Home?

... I Don't Even Know Why I Bother. I Can Already Read The Following Posts Nitpicking At Everything I Said Or Missing The Point Entirely. At Least I Tried.

Everything Is Easy For Those Who Do Not Have To Do It.

Edit : I Just Posted This, And The First Topic I See On The Recent Subjects List Is awesome Job Turbine For Employing Imbeciles To Deal With In-game Issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=229074)+1

[Riorik]

They used to stack. It was pretty ridiculous.

Some of that was also under the older "pricing scheme" for spells where maximize/empower had a multiplicative effect on the total spell cost.

At the time, between stacking & how metamagics worked, it was nearly always (still) better to just max out the feats whether or not you dropped 1 or more walls of fire. The stacking thing worked with other effects like Blade Barriers (which helped make scrolls, when they were purchasable, somewhat better).

Many effects either never stacked or were made to not stack later, such as the various FOG spells.

Yeah, it was ridiculous that Walls of Fire and Blade Barriers stacked.

[Riorik]

Surprised by it? Not really. Not anymore.
Dismayed, disheartened, and demoralized? Yeah, that still happens. At least when it's on the raw scale of yesterdays clustermung. One or two major problems/really bad decisions in an update is par for the course - but this is tragically comic how much has tanked in Update 3. I, at least, got the feeling that more than one person was asleep behind the wheel on this one...

I'm not dismayed, but I am concerned about the themes they seem to be targeting. Heroic Surge (an epic'ly bad idea). I do wonder, however, what the true status of this might be.

Some of the conjecture was that Heroic Surge may have been intended to help with things like perma-trip/perma-toss by certain creatures. Instead of HS, the notes mentioned both a reduction in time and that supposedly a maximum was set to how long it can affect you.

Call it - what if plan A was to make one change (heroic surge) that overrode a lot of effects (the easy code fix) versus what they've attempted to roll in that required unique code fixes in many places (harder mainly due to needing to patch multiple areas).

Who knows - only sorta on topic.

[Shassa]

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Hi guys! Would someone be so kind as to explain what the controversy for this was?

[Dilgar]

I believe Human Versatility used to be a passive increase to all skills.

[Horrorscope]

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

And that is why I program in the business world to. Lots easier then a game.

[Memnir]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore..
.
.

.
.
.
Awesome job turbine for employing imbeciles to deal with in-game issues[/url]Actually - this would be why Turbine does not listen anymore. :) And also why you're a self-professed bad guy... but that's a different post outright.

[gorloch]

Where are you getting rationalizing from? You made it sound as if you were hard done by because the update had some kinks in it that resulted in some server downtime. That's inherent to all MMO's. Pointing out that DDO suffers a lot less downtime than the others when it's a problem you will get no matter which one you play is hardly rationalizing. When so many people have responded negatively to your thread does it occur to you that perhaps you are the commnon denominator and not DDO? Sounds like you just have your mind made up to be malcontented without just cause. You haven't even provided anyone with a valid argument to back up your position.

What I find funny is you think he is totally malcontented with the game. Arnn is one of the biggest smartasses I have known and really doesn't take a whole lot to heart. As you can see by join dates (his 2006 for example) some of us have been through many nerfs on so many levels and he was kindly pointing out that Turbine was again off by what they said they were putting out or what they did to "fix" the game to give some of us old timers a bit of a chuckle. Lighten up a bit. ;)


PIXA

[BracchusBridgeburner]

sorry dude but nope, not buying it. If that were truly the case he wouldn't have gone to so much effort to argue with all the replies he got so ye....no. :D

I commend your loyalty to a pal though!

[Arlith]

sorry dude but nope, not buying it. If that were truly the case he wouldn't have gone to so much effort to argue with all the replies he got so ye....no. :D

I commend your loyalty to a pal though!

Pixa is a dudette, not a dude. You really don't know me all that well. Yes, yes I would. I would argue it into the ground, until I got bored or something more shiny came along. But then again, I couldn't really give a rats ass if you buy that or not.

Happy trails.

[noinfo]

None of those things broke the game... I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us...

Think of all the changes where people screamed and moaned and cried like 4-year old girls... And in many of those cases, the game got better (enhancement changes, etc.)

If I was a dev, I would tune out of most of the crybabies as well...

Not only this but the changes that they implemented altered core aspects such as rebuilding toons, new levels of difficulty etc. Lot of things that can go wrong but things people have wanted for a long time.

[BracchusBridgeburner]

ok so you're one of those emo issues baggage headcase nightmare of a g/f' type chick who's proud of it then. got it, no more need be said

[Arlith]

ok so you're one of those emo issues baggage headcase nightmare of a g/f' type chick who's proud of it then. got it, no more need be said

Did you even read that post? Re-read it.

[Kaeldur]

Actually - this would be why Turbine does not listen anymore. :) And also why you're a self-professed bad guy... but that's a different post outright.

I think you missed the point... He was criticizing that post, not endorsing it. He basically meant to say the same thing as you: ridiculous posts like that is why Turbine listens to us less and less.

[BracchusBridgeburner]

Did you even read that post? Re-read it.

my bad, that was supposed to be you with the issues then not pixa. Since you're admitting you would argue over a stupid insignificant topic just for the sake of it, you speak more pointedly to your own credibility than anything I could say so I guess that wraps this up for me at least. Peace out. :D

[Arlith]

my bad, that was supposed to be you with the issues then not pixa. Since you're admitting you would argue over a stupid insignificant topic just for the sake of it, you speak more pointedly to your own credibility than anything I could say so I guess that wraps this up for me at least. Peace out. :D

LOL @ issues. I have them coming out my ass... But this is not one of them.

Don't forget, you were right there arguing with me about this stupid insignificant topic. Even after I told you I wasn't serious. Just something to think about.

[gorloch]

LOL @ issues. I have them coming out my ass... But this is not one of them.

Don't forget, you were right there arguing with me about this stupid insignificant topic. Even after I told you I wasn't serious. Just something to think about.

It's funny how we were even joking about all of this last night. And looks like they fixed the forums...again. ;)


PIXA

[ddaedelus]

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

And this is why I don't take negative rep seriously.

[Arlith]

It's funny how we were even joking about all of this last night. And looks like they fixed the forums...again. ;)


PIXA

I thought it was just me. Phew!

[gorloch]

I thought it was just me. Phew!

No it's not just you.


PIXA

[Arlith]

No it's not just you.


PIXA

You sure? I just found out I have issues....

[ertlif]

i'm actually amazed more and more by this thread, even though i'll be more a part of it after this post, here goes:

this thread has reduced to people around the world poking at each other for no apparent reason, what do u guys get out of saying "and thats why i don't take neg rep seriously" or "now i know why i didn't take this post seriously" or even better "I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us"?.

lemme use caps a sec here to make my point:

-----------------------------WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?---------------------------------

"and thats why i don't take neg rep seriously" - step 1 of the thing i'm trying to explain. That sorta wanna be witty, sharp statement of engaging an answer linking another post, summoning it for a point but basically not saying anything. The only effort on that post was quoting the other user to make his fall even better.

"now i know why i didn't take this post seriously" - step 2 - its so macho to say things like this on forums! grats! (how to humiliate or destroy someone's point by being cyunical! and also without saying anything at all, the art of trying ti hurt in the shortest possible time)

"I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us" - i'm so tempted to use caps again for 50 straight lines repeating 2 letters "HA". Let me try to explain my point as clear as i can: THEY ARE WORKING FOR US.

The customer is always right, doesn't matter how insignificant or weird or pointless the request can get to be. Amongst all the useless posts we people write, a few are very important, no one can or should stop reading anything, specially the Turbine people. If u think the post is no good, leave, what good comes out of sanding a users point or being mean at it? Personal satisfaction? Or a sense of self-acomplishment of being a forum cop or wannabe regulator or admin?

Let's remember once again that we invest time on this game, and sometimes money (or always, doesn't matter). Time is the most valuable thing we have i think, and money sadly is the second (in most cases), if i'm spending both on a game, u guys better listen to me, u guys better address the issues, or WoW and other MMORPG's are gonna have a lot more users as time goes by.

Long live ddo! Let's not destroy it by showing the world we suck!

[Gunga]

The customer is always right, doesn't matter how insignificant or weird or pointless the request can get to be.

No.

You may want your Customer Service team to treat an irate customer as if they are right, but, if you were Mr. Turbine, you wouldn't be paying for the development of every stupid idea that's posted - and rightfully so.

Don't post stuff you don't even believe just to make a point.

[knightgf]

For four years we have been screaming at Turbine, "Your going to break the game!"

Attack animation change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Trip nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Evasion change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Removing the few really difficult challenges in lower level quests - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!" (Needed to say that twice)

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Everything I missed - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

For years we have been screaming about them breaking the game. Really, honestly, can you say you are suprised when they actually do it?

Just asking.

I find it kind of funny. I htink they broke things that weren't even addressed by the update. Just wow.

For every event there is always an argument to both support and oppose the event.

[ertlif]

No.

You may want your Customer Service team to treat an irate customer as if they are right, but, if you were Mr. Turbine, you wouldn't be paying for the development of every stupid idea that's posted - and rightfully so.

Don't post stuff you don't even believe just to make a point.

?

It was just an expression, don't stress it out to a huge statement. You weirdly took the part with less significance on the post and squished it. I truly don't understand what's your intention here. Are you trying to add something to the explanation or just put down mine? (My point exactly on my other post, you people are trying to correct others rather than making a point at all).

PS: I used to love your signature, but you don't seem very loving pr peaceful :P

[Gunga]

PS: I used to love your signature, but you don't seem very loving pr peaceful :P


Don't take it personally, I'm only reacting to what you said.

If you don't believe it, than why say it in the first place?

[ertlif]

Don't take it personally, I'm only reacting to what you said.

If you don't believe it, than why say it in the first place?

You know Gunga, you are right. I logged in the forum with my claws sharpened, it was stupid of me. Next time i'll try to be more objective and appreciate the post a little better. Sometimes i have a lot to express and well, writing isn't my strongest ability, i should be more open to people finding flaws or details that can be polished or corrected on my statements. For that i thank you!

Sorry for jumping at you.

[lutherl]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore.

A typical video game is a marvel of engineering to begin with. It typically requires more than ten years of experience in programmation, high skills with mathematics for 3d and physics engines, and a whole lot of other technical skills. It also takes artists who know how to work with limited resources, and management that can handle all of those. It amounts to 2, 3 years of hard work for about 15 persons. MMO are even harder to make : you have to make the whole thing run on an infrastructure able to withstand thousands of concurrent access in real time, and somehow make sure that no amount of system crash or deliberate hacking on a client is going to even be noticed by other players. And DDO might have been the hardest of them all : it combines massively multiplayer features with twitch gameplay, which is very hard to pull off. It must be done on a budget, with little money, little time and too few people. Not to mention the fact that DDO is based on D&D 3.5, which is a nightmare.

An incredible amount of effort went, and still goes into this game. Yet all I ever see on the forums is whining and more whining. I only saw three topics saying it is a good game, one of which I had to start myself.

The whole software profession feels underappreciated. Why are the bugs / balance issues not fixed yet? Imagine for an instant working at Turbine. It's 8:00 pm and you have just read the forums. Do you feel like staying late at work fixing the game or going back home?

... I don't even know why I bother. I can already read the following posts nitpicking at everything I said or missing the point entirely. At least I tried.

Everything is easy for those who do not have to do it.

EDIT : I just posted this, and the first topic I see on the recent subjects list is Awesome job turbine for employing imbeciles to deal with in-game issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=229074)

I hear you. I understand the feeling. I'm a software architect, and I do everything in my power to ensure 100% bug-free launches.

On the other hand, meh...it was just talk. I didn't particularly get my feelings hurt by it. He doesn't even know me.

[Missing_Minds]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore.

Spoken like a comp sci who's never done a lick of IT work in the actual IT field.

Anyone who has realizes that users will complain and are going to complain no matter what and it WILL always be your fault no matter if you had any part in it or not.

Learn to ignore and how to have fun. That will add years to your life to have more fun.

[ddaedelus]

i'm actually amazed more and more by this thread, even though i'll be more a part of it after this post, here goes:

this thread has reduced to people around the world poking at each other for no apparent reason, what do u guys get out of saying "and thats why i don't take neg rep seriously" or "now i know why i didn't take this post seriously" or even better "I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us"?.

lemme use caps a sec here to make my point:

The line you're looking for is:

"So you all will know the seriousness of my warning, I shall say this in English. As your leader, I encourage you from time to time, and always in a respectful manner, to question my logic. If you're unconvinced that a particular plan of action I've decided is the wisest, tell me so, but allow me to convince you and I promise you right here and now, no subject will ever be taboo. Except, of course, the subject that was just under discussion."

Now back to the show:



-----------------------------WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?---------------------------------

"and thats why i don't take neg rep seriously" - step 1 of the thing i'm trying to explain. That sorta wanna be witty, sharp statement of engaging an answer linking another post, summoning it for a point but basically not saying anything. The only effort on that post was quoting the other user to make his fall even better.

"now i know why i didn't take this post seriously" - step 2 - its so macho to say things like this on forums! grats! (how to humiliate or destroy someone's point by being cyunical! and also without saying anything at all, the art of trying ti hurt in the shortest possible time)

"I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us" - i'm so tempted to use caps again for 50 straight lines repeating 2 letters "HA". Let me try to explain my point as clear as i can: THEY ARE WORKING FOR US.

The customer is always right, doesn't matter how insignificant or weird or pointless the request can get to be. Amongst all the useless posts we people write, a few are very important, no one can or should stop reading anything, specially the Turbine people. If u think the post is no good, leave, what good comes out of sanding a users point or being mean at it? Personal satisfaction? Or a sense of self-acomplishment of being a forum cop or wannabe regulator or admin?

Let's remember once again that we invest time on this game, and sometimes money (or always, doesn't matter). Time is the most valuable thing we have i think, and money sadly is the second (in most cases), if i'm spending both on a game, u guys better listen to me, u guys better address the issues, or WoW and other MMORPG's are gonna have a lot more users as time goes by.

Long live ddo! Let's not destroy it by showing the world we suck!

Look, the OP made a post that was brilliantly, beautifully ironic in it's own absurdity: he lists a bunch of historical "Doom" statements, none of which happened, then makes his own Doom statement and says "but this one's real, guys!" Surely you can see the humor there and why it's ripe for abuse?

Then to add to the hilarity, Draccus says "Eh, games are often buggy. We should be used to it by now." To which Zereth threatens negative rep because he somehow thinks Draccus is personally attacking him as the source of all programming bugs (which maybe he is, I don't know).

And you expect me to take anything in this entire thread seriously? Now admittedly it wasn't very funny, but I'm not Jon freakin' Stewart so cut me some slack.

Hell, if we did things your way, Memnir wouldn't be allowed to post any more. And then what kind of world would we have, huh? Utter ****, that's what!

When people carry on interesting and thoughtful discussions, I respond in kind. When people act like fools, I'm more than happy to oblige there, too.

Oh, and, by the way, the customer is very often wrong, as are you. :p

[ertlif]

Here we go again with the point stressing. I don't mean to write an absolute truth. The art of finding errors on posts is something i don't quite share with you, i was trying to express myself, nothing more.

I am not wrong, i can't be wrong. The same way you can't be wrong, because those lil text thingies we all see here are opinions (imo at least :P). What i wanted to do by posting wasn't state a dogmatic truth, i am just one more witness of how much hate is building up in the ddo forums.

"And you expect me to take anything in this entire thread seriously? Now admittedly it wasn't very funny, but I'm not Jon freakin' Stewart so cut me some slack."

I don't understand you much, you ask me to cut you some slack, i assume you think i took this too seriously. I tend to do that, and you are prolly right, but once again, if u don't care much, why post then? Why mine my statement?

This is exactly what i was talking about before, everyone pokes each other with little pieces of wisdom, nevertheless i don't see a specific goal or point here rather than just poking.

This kind of attitude generates an unstoppable wave of forum-lurkers that basically dedicate themselves to put down other users opinions with no other objectives.

At the same time, you are not the first person to doubt my points on this thread, which makes me think that even though i have an enormous ego, if several dudes go against this text in one way or another, I am probably wrong on some points.

Maybe i should think about what Gunga said minutes ago, maybe i'm making something personal out of this.

PS: the customer is always right is an expression, it is just an expression, i swear it's an expression! xD stop taking this literally, please! I worked in several customer service callcenters: Teletech, Teleperformance, 5ca, Trendnet, Spantel and several other horrible places, and yeah dude, customers are almost always wrong, nevertheless i kept smiling and saying "don't worry ma'am, i'll try to make your internet connection work" (even though the lady refused to power on her cable modem). Eventually, she would listen to me and power it on. If i said "ma'am, you are seriously challenged if u expect having a working internet connection without powering the modem" my supervisor would have executed me with a +5 greataxe of greater telemarketer bane, because when it comes to support the customers that pay for your product, it's simple: "the customer is always right". (at least thats my humble and prolly limited opinion).

[bartcom2000]

Somewhere in Alaska lies a small elf named Arlith that is sitting in a brothel and giggling over the flame war that his thread has ignited... +1 to you brother!!!!:D

[ddaedelus]

Because it would be a shame to disappoint Bartcom...


Here we go again with the point stressing. I don't mean to write an absolute truth. The art of finding errors on posts is something i don't quite share with you, i was trying to express myself, nothing more.

I am not wrong, i can't be wrong. The same way you can't be wrong, because those lil text thingies we all see here are opinions (imo at least :P). What i wanted to do by posting wasn't state a dogmatic truth, i am just one more witness of how much hate is building up in the ddo forums.

You're wrong. Trust me, an opinion can be wrong.


I don't understand you much, you ask me to cut you some slack, i assume you think i took this too seriously. I tend to do that, and you are prolly right, but once again, if u don't care much, why post then? Why mine my statement?

I didn't say I don't care. I'm not sure where you got that from. And I responded to your statement because you quoted me and seem to take issue with what I said.


This is exactly what i was talking about before, everyone pokes each other with little pieces of wisdom, nevertheless i don't see a specific goal or point here rather than just poking.

You give me too much credit. There's no wisdom here.


This kind of attitude generates an unstoppable wave of forum-lurkers that basically dedicate themselves to put down other users opinions with no other objectives.

I had an objective. I wanted to point to the quoted text as an example of why negative rep is very often meaningless, and that by rendering it meaningless, it is no longer a threat. Now I could have said it just like that, or I could try for sarcasm. I chose the latter because for some reason his comment did not engender feelings of compassion or wit.

I'm a bit surprised, given your opinions and general attitude of proper forum behavior, that you didn't decide to use him as an example of "forum bully." I was sarcastic. He was the one who threatened negative rep.

And, to save space rather than continue quoting, "The customer is always right" may be a well known expression, but it is still wrong. If your customer said to you "Last month I only had to pay $10 for my cable bill," when in fact she did not, and you responded, "Yes, ma'am, you're right," Both you and she would be.... WRONG.

[ertlif]

I think i get your point. You got your own style and i don't represent (or even try to represent) a higher authority of any kind to correct you.

You don't seem to be a forum bully, and i agree on your opinion on the other guy u mentioned. I still think that you are taking the customer expression in a literal way :P

Regarding the quoting on you, i didn't mean to attack you or your point in any way, i actually read a couple more of your posts and you don't seem to be a dbag at all, i just grasped that sentence for an example on my point.

Anyways, i gotta run from work now :P It's time to stop posting and start playing, heehee.. cya!

[gorloch]

Hell, if we did things your way, Memnir wouldn't be allowed to post any more.

What's so wrong with Memnir? I kinda enjoy his posts, although they aren't as good as they were in the Old Xoriat days..




Somewhere in Alaska lies a small elf named Arlith that is sitting in a brothel and giggling over the flame war that his thread has ignited... +1 to you brother!!!!:D


Yes, yes he is. :D


PIXA

[melkor1702]

Also, you used to be able to cast it at a door, and it would roast everything on the other side. Same with the fog type spells, like Cloudkill.

Whilst I can see why they did that I don't understand how firewalls and fogs can't be cast through gates or portcullis or on said gate or portcullis and not effect things on the other side.

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm



Cloudkill
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell generates a bank of fog, similar to a fog cloud, except that its vapors are yellowish green and poisonous. These vapors automatically kill any living creature with 3 or fewer HD (no save). A living creature with 4 to 6 HD is slain unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save (in which case it takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud).

A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one’s breath doesn’t help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell.

Unlike a fog cloud, the cloudkill moves away from you at 10 feet per round, rolling along the surface of the ground.

Figure out the cloud’s new spread each round based on its new point of origin, which is 10 feet farther away from the point of origin where you cast the spell.

Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.

so it can go down sinkholes and dens but not go through a grate?

[Arlith]

Somewhere in Alaska lies a small elf named Arlith that is sitting in a brothel and giggling over the flame war that his thread has ignited... +1 to you brother!!!!:D


Yes, yes he is. :D

I prefer snow angels......

http://chicstories.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/snow-angel-lingerie.jpg



What's so wrong with Memnir? I kinda enjoy his posts, although they aren't as good as they were in the Old Xoriat days..

Sigh... I miss them so.

[gorloch]

I prefer snow angels......

http://chicstories.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/snow-angel-lingerie.jpg



If those were the snow angels I was getting around here my standing against snow would change. ;)


PIXA

[Arlith]

If those were the snow angels I was getting around here my standing against snow would change. ;)


PIXA

You mean there is another kind? I had no idea.

[gorloch]

You mean there is another kind? I had no idea.

I heard people do a crazy thing liek plop down in the middle of the s*** and wave their arms and legs around but I thought that was jsut stupid so couldn't tell ya for sure. :rolleyes:


PIXA

[Kaeldur]

Whilst I can see why they did that I don't understand how firewalls and fogs can't be cast through gates or portcullis or on said gate or portcullis and not effect things on the other side.

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm



so it can go down sinkholes and dens but not go through a grate?

I don't mean to be matter of fact, but I would suppose they don't allow it because of poor AI (and the fact that DDO is not D&D, rather an adaptation of it).
What I mean is... if you're standing in a room and a firewall or fog cloud suddenly pops up near a door you would most probably try to escape or investigate the source of it (by opening the door), which the AI doesn't currently do. It'll just stand there being roasted in the fire...

[Chai]

The REAL problem is people who complain about the smallest of issues, everyone jumps on the bandwagon, and then Turbine fixes it by going the COMPLETELY opposite direction and breaks things the other way around. I will outline a few examples.

2007 or so, there were tons of moaners complaining on the forums that air elementals were too hard to kill or even fight because of the severe minimal chance for standing on your feet for longer than 1 or 2 seconds. Result: Turbine comes along and fixes it and now we got air elementals that serve tea and crumpets to all the players pounding on the reaver while smooth jazz music plays in the background.

People complained furiously that traps were too easy: metagamers were building rogues with no spot that could solo every dungeon because even when the trap went off it didnt kill anyone or do enough harm to be even considered worthy to find it. It was easier for the xp farmers who were going for fast runs to jump through it. Result: Turbine comes along and fixes it so that traps are KILLING PEOPLE (yeah thats what traps do) and there was moan fest 2009 about traps where everyone thought they were bugged. They werent bugged, traps are designed to melt adventurers who invade lairs of denzines clever enough to create traps.

People complained about zergers with haste potion addictions hauling it at high speeds through dungeons to complete the objectives only and be done with the quest. These people get themselves killed more often than not, and while mildly entertaining, were annoying enough to start 26 different forum threads on the same topic. Result: Turbine fixes it by creating a DA system that now ensures that zergers who are 7 rooms ahead of the party not only get themselves killed, but the entire party dies shortly afterward as well. There, they fixed it.

Be careful what you wish for, because it just may happen....etc.

[Chai]

I don't mean to be matter of fact, but I would suppose they don't allow it because of poor AI (and the fact that DDO is not D&D, rather an adaptation of it).
What I mean is... if you're standing in a room and a firewall or fog cloud suddenly pops up near a door you would most probably try to escape or investigate the source of it (by opening the door), which the AI doesn't currently do. It'll just stand there being roasted in the fire...

Not only that but fighting someone through a barrier applies different types of modifiers for each type of barrier. A pole in the middle of a room or a tree is 2ac if you are in the same square. Fighting through bars is partial cover which means a miss chance roll on each swing etc... DDO does not have a system that accounts for this stuff. You are either BLOCKED or ATTACKABLE.

I have seen blade barriers kill mobs that can be seen through bars, but not firewalls. However, since the mobs dont move (trying to strangle you but cant get to you due to running into the bars) the blade barrier hits them only once, where a firewall would continue to do damage.

[binnsr]

I prefer snow angels......

http://chicstories.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/snow-angel-lingerie.jpg




Sigh... I miss them so.

If those were the snow angels I was getting around here my standing against snow would change. ;)


PIXA

You mean there is another kind? I had no idea.
Sounds like I need to move to Alaska...