Why I rather take an NPC than party with You.

[BlackSmith81]

This is DDO, not WoW (although its less and less D&D on every mod). You can't solo dozen monsters, you wont regen mana, you don't 'finish out' to leave quest and no, you wont get a pony. The mercenary's know these.
The NPC does not ask 'What quest', 'What house', 'Where do i come to', 'What are we doing' or 'is it P2P'. They apparently read the LFM or can look from the quest journal where to come. Or if they would ask, i am sure they would thank for the info. THX is a trade name of a high-fidelity sound reproduction standard for movie theaters, screening rooms, home theaters, computer speakers, gaming consoles, and car audio systems. I still don't get why players always want to talk about it.
The hired hand does not burn half of his mana in the first fight or before it. In most cases the NPC has half the blue bar left when coming to first shrine.
Any mercenary worth his salt knows not to waste resources and thus they only cast spells when needed. Like just before a fight or even while at it, not week before it. I really don't need remove fear if there is nothing near me that is going to frighten me. Really.
When i pay for help, they stick around until the grim deeds are done. Commitment. No silent joining's, holding up the slot for 10mins and then suddenly leaving. NPCs are also not offended if asked 'Do you understand me?'
They do as they are told and fear no battle, they are relentless. One or two or dozen deaths don't matter to them as they are always ready to finish the quest when you have made half way trough or even less!
They know what they are doing and won't cast Shield of Faith on you before they reach level 6 as Protection from Evil is superior before that. Maybe they have higher knowledge skills than PC's as they seem to know what are evil and what are not. Like vermins and animals are not and, lets see, rest of the game is.
They use summon monsters. Only way to bring more manpower to any quest and that is most mana efficient thing to do. Let that celestial dog catch that destruction.
They don't whine about repairing or healing. 'You do not regain HPs from positive energy so well? No problem, i grab repair. That should make healers job lot easier, because i know you make more mayhem with the 10 sps than i do'. I am not crying my guts out that i need to dull my blades on some innocent creature.
All mercenary's understand the principles of war. You cant have the spoils of war without the war. First fight, then rummaging the pockets.
There is no I in a team and they know it. They don't' scream on party channel 'HEAL ME' or 'WHY DONT YOU DO <this or that>' or 'I NEED <spell>'.
Over healing. They don't do it. No really, i don't need 110% HPs when there is chance for spell crits on healing spells (that is a really silly feature in DDO). If i got more than 3/4 i am more than happy.
Moving as a combat pairs, team. No splitting up to 6 different ways, others trying to solo that and this and there. They always move around with a combat pair. Always. Or they guard a spot. Got to be the military training from Dennith. It really should be mandatory for new recruits.
Greeting. When meeting a new person, they say hi and wave. How polite and warm.
Listening what their superior say to them. That is, where to fight next. No running to kill kobolds if plan was to kill giants. Or at least they excuse and move along.
A hired hand knows the appropriate channels and how to use 'em. No shouting on general for a group or members when there is feature for it. No trading in other than trade channel. Even advices are lsitened on advice channel. Sure its general, but so is a bucket a general container, yet you don't see much people eating or drinking from it, use it as a pot or storage their important papers in it. There are better tools and the NPCs use 'em.
Mercenary's take a look from their book of "A clue for about everything: /Glossary" before asking.
Hirelings dont get lost in a 4 tunnel quest. apparently they learned how to use the minimap even with its lack of 3d representation.

[Dieseltrain]

Completely agree with you there Black!

It is near impossible to put a group together for, let's say, Tangle root or Stormcleave, without get dozens of tells asking "What is TR?" It is especially nerve wracking when they simply are too full of themselves or just plain lazy and don't read the LFM.

Again. Having an LFM posted saying that we are doing SC (Stormcleave for those that don't have a clue) and asking for experienced players. Then having players join and ask what are we doing. (Party): So and So has been dismissed from your party.

Back to the point at hand. A hireling has very high AI compared to a vast majority of the players in this day in age.

[Babumbalaboo]

I look at you with contempt because you look at World of Warcraft with contempt.

[Hrodgrimr]

The hired hand does not burn half of his mana in the first fight or before it. In most cases the NPC has half the blue bar left when coming to first shrine.


They have so many SP because they drink pots like winos but this is changing with the next update:


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

Hireling Changes

Hirelings now use potions more sparingly.

[Hellmoob]

They have so many SP because they drink pots like winos but this is changing with the next update:


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

Hireling Changes

Hirelings now use potions more sparingly.

Aww, I enjoyed my drunken midget wizards!

[JakLee7]

They have so many SP because they drink pots like winos but this is changing with the next update:


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

Hireling Changes

Hirelings now use potions more sparingly.

actually that could refer to healing pots - those guys chug them all in the first 2-3 minutes & can't heal themselves for the rest of the fight!

[Dieseltrain]

I personally don't use Hirelings often especially the sorcs or wizzies, but I'm sure they understand that it is more efficient to firewall a mob of undead instead of continuously cast a fireball 5 or 6 times therefore depleting over half your bar.

In game example by the way.

[Hrodgrimr]

I haven't read anyone talking about npcs using too many heal pots. Pretty confident it's mana pot usage that's getting changed. Hopefully, it won't be over done.

[Darsith]

In the MMO's that I have been playing for the last few years SC and TR meant greatly different things then what they do in the DDO world (and even then TR can mean Tangle Root or True Reincarnate). In the last game that I played SC meant an area that was infested with heavy caster damage and needed to have the players swap to a whole different set of gear or die in one shot at lvl cap.

Sometimes players forget that the jargon that is so second nature to them is in fact not an acceptable form of English and need to refrain from using it too much. (or even better revert to using an acceptable version of English when addressing those that do not understand what TR or SC means) Just as the players that use inappropriate forms of English grammar to convey their thoughts (plix, thx, pls, plz, plox) may need to be subtly reminded that the internet jargon (often referred to as 'interspeak') that they are currently engaging in is an unacceptable form of communication. The last community that I was apart of had the same issue with over used internet jargon. When it came to the forums they actually initiated an automatic word filter for the commonly used versions of internet jargon that would convert it to proper English grammar. In game, a player had to deal with it, or put the offenders on the ignore list if the inappropriate grammar was in such gross violation that it broke a personal grammar barrier.

[techknowannie]

sometimes when i use hirelings Its no different then when in a bad pug :rolleyes:
I mean really are ya going to stand in that acid trap till ya die.
my favorite is when I have to beg them to use the shrine after they died 5 minutes if that long into the battle, and after being put in passive mode they still go charging into the mob? :confused:

the best is when apparently the AI went AFK because the guy was just standing there and nothing I could do could make him move :eek:

granted not every time I use a hireling is like that, but when you spend tp on a gold seal its a bit aggravating when your hireling dies at the first of the dungeon and I know there is not a rest shrine till the end of the dungeon :(

[Dark_Helmet]

Too bad the hirelings don't take spells you want. And, they have far fewer than a real caster.

[LogannX]

Excellent...another whiney snotbag veteran thread that makes all veterans look like jerks.
Well done.

[Cylinwolf]

In the MMO's that I have been playing for the last few years SC and TR meant greatly different things then what they do in the DDO world (and even then TR can mean Tangle Root or True Reincarnate). In the last game that I played SC meant an area that was infested with heavy caster damage and needed to have the players swap to a whole different set of gear or die in one shot at lvl cap.

So, you imply that when people switch MMOs, they aren't supposed to adapt to the jargin and meanings behind abbreviations of the new game? As a veteran of foreign MMOs, am I just supposed to blindly laugh at any groups forming for SoS because there's no "Swamp of Sorrows" in this game, or am I supposed to learn what SoS means in this game rather than hold onto information that no longer applies here?

[Failedlegend]

Why I rather take an NPC than party with You...snipped

All your points are irrelevant because hirelings are as dumb as a post...actually a post might be more useful.

[knightgf]

All your points are irrelevant because hirelings are as dumb as a post...actually a post might be more useful.

You'd be amazed at the IQ range of the players that are on here. Some players are probably 140 or higher and are geniouses, while others are 60 and lower.(Me being the 60 IQ). I don't know where exactly a 'hireling' would fit on the IQ scale but it would probably be somewhere in the lower quartile of the IQ scale...

[Lirial]

yea sure, take an npc on every quest with you. good luck with that :rolleyes:

this is the weirdest thread ever. just play nwn imo

[Uska]

All your points are irrelevant because hirelings are as dumb as a post...actually a post might be more useful.

True at least you can use a post as a club.

[issiana]

You'd be amazed at the IQ range of the players that are on here. Some players are probably 140 or higher and are geniouses, while others are 60 and lower.(Me being the 60 IQ). I don't know where exactly a 'hireling' would fit on the IQ scale but it would probably be somewhere in the lower quartile of the IQ scale...

heh, i saw the low IQ scale last night.

Von 3 duo, needed int for the runes, so we figure its easier to grab a hierling wizzie park him at door and call him to do runes when we get there. 2 runes went fine, but on the 3rd... omg what an idiot our merc turned out to be. we stood him right next to the rune and asked him to use it...

" sure thing boss" he says then proceeds to run away while trying to use the rune.. which naturally gives us the message - rune is out of range.

first time was funny, from then on it was maddening. in the end we managed to box him in between the wall, us and a mushroom so he couldnt' run away from the rune.. but he still kept on trying, lol.

gotta love low IQ heirlings (and bad pathing programing by the devs ;))

so yeah.. heirlings have apurpose, but i'd take real person anyday.

[MissErres]

In the MMO's that I have been playing for the last few years SC and TR meant greatly different things then what they do in the DDO world (and even then TR can mean Tangle Root or True Reincarnate). In the last game that I played SC meant an area that was infested with heavy caster damage and needed to have the players swap to a whole different set of gear or die in one shot at lvl cap.

Sometimes players forget that the jargon that is so second nature to them is in fact not an acceptable form of English and need to refrain from using it too much. (or even better revert to using an acceptable version of English when addressing those that do not understand what TR or SC means) Just as the players that use inappropriate forms of English grammar to convey their thoughts (plix, thx, pls, plz, plox) may need to be subtly reminded that the internet jargon (often referred to as 'interspeak') that they are currently engaging in is an unacceptable form of communication. The last community that I was apart of had the same issue with over used internet jargon. When it came to the forums they actually initiated an automatic word filter for the commonly used versions of internet jargon that would convert it to proper English grammar. In game, a player had to deal with it, or put the offenders on the ignore list if the inappropriate grammar was in such gross violation that it broke a personal grammar barrier.

So if I put up an LFM for TR someone is going to think I need help running True Reincarnation?? Granted, no, I haven't TR'd any of my toons yet, but I don't think I'd need to put up an LFM for that. :rolleyes: And since when does anyone really give a rat's a** about proper grammer in a game anyway? Seriously, if someone has an issue with plz, thx, omw, brt, or any other abbreviation, they can kma. ;)

[Uska]

So if I put up an LFM for TR someone is going to think I need help running True Reincarnation?? Granted, no, I haven't TR'd any of my toons yet, but I don't think I'd need to put up an LFM for that. :rolleyes: And since when does anyone really give a rat's a** about proper grammer in a game anyway? Seriously, if someone has an issue with plz, thx, omw, brt, or any other abbreviation, they can kma. ;)

To much caffine lately? Just yanking your chain I know what you mean some people are to serious about grammer if its that important to them they should go be a school teach and leave us gamers alone.

[MissErres]

To much caffine lately? Just yanking your chain I know what you mean some people are to serious about grammer if its that important to them they should go be a school teach and leave us gamers alone.

Caffeine?? Yeah, that's what we'll call it. :p

Much agreed tho. My family is full of teachers. My dad, my uncle, both aunts, my gpa, a couple cousins.... and not a one of them is that **** picky about grammar in everyday life, let alone a game. It's really NOT that big of an issue.

[Uska]

Caffeine?? Yeah, that's what we'll call it. :p

Much agreed tho. My family is full of teachers. My dad, my uncle, both aunts, my gpa, a couple cousins.... and not a one of them is that **** picky about grammar in everyday life, let alone a game. It's really NOT that big of an issue.

Shame on you for not sharing:D

[Uska]

To the op from the sounds of it I'd rather you take an npc then me as well. relax its just a game.

[metallmaiden]

You will allways have someone complaining ....

-When I asked a group how to get to 3bc, should i have sent them a gift basket when they replied? (with a note: TYVM ^^)
-Should I wait to just before the fight to cast my 28 min blur on the tanks on a medium length quest? What about GH on the rogue on trap heavy dungeons? guess i need to be more carefull from now on...
-Should I waste my/yours/everybody's time displaying my exemplary dominion over the laws of grammatical correctness in party chat?
-Should I let the party die on the beggining of a quest so I can get to the shrine with half my SP bar? Very well, i will start purchasing mnemonics with all my hard earned money, so you can be happy at shrine time! yaay!
-Do you /bow every time you join a group?
-Why is it that bringing a newbie to a group is better than taking a vet? (the newbie doesnt ever make you forget that this IS A GAME, and people should have fun playing it. He'll never tell you what to do, and if he does, he'll never be petulant about it)





(my grammar sux btw, but I am not from an english speaking country, so pardon me, this is the best I can manage)

[bobbryan2]

You can't solo dozen monsters, you wont regen mana

Well, the good ones can. :)

[Uska]

You will allways have someone complaining ....

-When I asked a group how to get to 3bc, should i have sent them a gift basket when they replied? (with a note: TYVM ^^)
-Should I wait to just before the fight to cast my 28 min blur on the tanks on a medium length quest? What about GH on the rogue on trap heavy dungeons? guess i need to be more carefull from now on...
-Should I waste my/yours/everybody's time displaying my exemplary dominion over the laws of grammatical correctness in party chat?
-Should I let the party die on the beggining of a quest so I can get to the shrine with half my SP bar? Very well, i will start purchasing mnemonics with all my hard earned money, so you can be happy at shrine time! yaay!
-Do you /bow every time you join a group?
-Why is it that bringing a newbie to a group is better than taking a vet? (the newbie doesnt ever make you forget that this IS A GAME, and people should have fun playing it. He'll never tell you what to do, and if he does, he'll never be petulant about it)





(my grammar sux btw, but I am not from an english speaking country, so pardon me, this is the best I can manage)

Well I have meet some know it all newbies pretty funny really especailly on my monk(TR so she has the wings) they start telling people how to do things usually wrong and then when I or another TR say something they say we are wrong lol.

[Morningfrost]

So, you imply that when people switch MMOs, they aren't supposed to adapt to the jargin and meanings behind abbreviations of the new game? As a veteran of foreign MMOs, am I just supposed to blindly laugh at any groups forming for SoS because there's no "Swamp of Sorrows" in this game, or am I supposed to learn what SoS means in this game rather than hold onto information that no longer applies here?

As new player, I spent some time learning common abbreviations and in-game jargon. I will never rant about it, you are joining a community and is a metter of education, at the very least, to adapt to thei terminology. Still, I think they tend to be abused sometimes. I'm a fast typer (I can do 300/minute with a blind keyboard) so writing Tangleroot Gorge or TR is the same for me, and I have no problems at all understandig what TR means (should be TG, anyway), but it can be misleading, at least in Looking for more ads (LFM is not a chat, you have no excuse for laziness there, and you should also select the quest name from the list and not just type it, so F2P will be warned <-- Hope this is correct, if not correct me plaese).

So, I will have a look in the forum and in the travel book, just to have a clue, after that, forgive me if I just ask what SC is (I would send a tell, not joining and asking). "SC" can be a lot of things, while SoS can actually be guessed.

[Anderei]

Also pro NPCs: They don't mind to run with socially inept people. Or with dork vets who think they are the *** because they play one game over years and therefore can look down on any other human being.

[epochofcrepuscule]

Also pro NPCs: They don't mind to run with socially inept people. Or with dork vets who think they are the *** because they play one game over years and therefore can look down on any other human being.

We reserve that right! Not to mention, we dont look down on any other human being, just the people that dont listen. Also, the people that ask for advice then refuse to accept it as they dont like the reality of the situation.





In the MMO's that I have been playing for the last few years SC and TR meant greatly different things then what they do in the DDO world (and even then TR can mean Tangle Root or True Reincarnate). In the last game that I played SC meant an area that was infested with heavy caster damage and needed to have the players swap to a whole different set of gear or die in one shot at lvl cap.

Sometimes players forget that the jargon that is so second nature to them is in fact not an acceptable form of English and need to refrain from using it too much. (or even better revert to using an acceptable version of English when addressing those that do not understand what TR or SC means) Just as the players that use inappropriate forms of English grammar to convey their thoughts (plix, thx, pls, plz, plox) may need to be subtly reminded that the internet jargon (often referred to as 'interspeak') that they are currently engaging in is an unacceptable form of communication. The last community that I was apart of had the same issue with over used internet jargon. When it came to the forums they actually initiated an automatic word filter for the commonly used versions of internet jargon that would convert it to proper English grammar. In game, a player had to deal with it, or put the offenders on the ignore list if the inappropriate grammar was in such gross violation that it broke a personal grammar barrier.


Every MMo has its own acronyms and internet speech.. you are going to have to learn to deal with it or play single player games... your choice.... as stated earlier:


So, you imply that when people switch MMOs, they aren't supposed to adapt to the jargin and meanings behind abbreviations of the new game? As a veteran of foreign MMOs, am I just supposed to blindly laugh at any groups forming for SoS because there's no "Swamp of Sorrows" in this game, or am I supposed to learn what SoS means in this game rather than hold onto information that no longer applies here?


Now to the OP....



This is DDO, not WoW (although its less and less D&D on every mod). You can't solo dozen monsters, you wont regen mana, you don't 'finish out' to leave quest and no, you wont get a pony. The mercenary's know these. .... You can solo more then a dozen....
The NPC does not ask 'What quest', 'What house', 'Where do i come to', 'What are we doing' or 'is it P2P'. They apparently read the LFM or can look from the quest journal where to come. Or if they would ask, i am sure they would thank for the info. THX is a trade name of a high-fidelity sound reproduction standard for movie theaters, screening rooms, home theaters, computer speakers, gaming consoles, and car audio systems. I still don't get why players always want to talk about it. Mercenaries cant read, they just magically pop up
The hired hand does not burn half of his mana in the first fight or before it. In most cases the NPC has half the blue bar left when coming to first shrine. The hired hand also raises dungeon scaling without adding anything useful
Any mercenary worth his salt knows not to waste resources and thus they only cast spells when needed. Like just before a fight or even while at it, not week before it. I really don't need remove fear if there is nothing near me that is going to frighten me. Really. remove fear also gives a +4 to saves vs fear
When i pay for help, they stick around until the grim deeds are done. Commitment. No silent joining's, holding up the slot for 10mins and then suddenly leaving. NPCs are also not offended if asked 'Do you understand me?'If a basic grp takes 10 mins to get going, id drop to. You dont need a full grp, hence the REASON for introducing something as lame as dungeon scaling
They do as they are told and fear no battle, they are relentless. One or two or dozen deaths don't matter to them as they are always ready to finish the quest when you have made half way trough or even less! A dozen deaths, really? Wow, thats bad.
They know what they are doing and won't cast Shield of Faith on you before they reach level 6 as Protection from Evil is superior before that. Maybe they have higher knowledge skills than PC's as they seem to know what are evil and what are not. Like vermins and animals are not and, lets see, rest of the game is. Actually, the rest of the game isnt... sorry to burst your bubble
They use summon monsters. Only way to bring more manpower to any quest and that is most mana efficient thing to do. Let that celestial dog catch that destruction. If you are summoning celestial dogs to avoid a destruction... then you are a high enough lvl to run tr and get dw clickies
They don't whine about repairing or healing. 'You do not regain HPs from positive energy so well? No problem, i grab repair. That should make healers job lot easier, because i know you make more mayhem with the 10 sps than i do'. I am not crying my guts out that i need to dull my blades on some innocent creature. Aww, playing a wf and dont wanna buy pots? How can you play the superior race and yet not be superior?
All mercenary's understand the principles of war. You cant have the spoils of war without the war. First fight, then rummaging the pockets. Mercenaries dont loot, thats why.... sorry to break it to you
There is no I in a team and they know it. They don't' scream on party channel 'HEAL ME' or 'WHY DONT YOU DO <this or that>' or 'I NEED <spell>'. Sadly you are correct, there is no I in team, but there is a ME!
Over healing. They don't do it. No really, i don't need 110% HPs when there is chance for spell crits on healing spells (that is a really silly feature in DDO). If i got more than 3/4 i am more than happy. Everyone needs extra healing, its what the clerics need to do to actually stay awake while playing them... until they learn to actually play a cleric
Moving as a combat pairs, team. No splitting up to 6 different ways, others trying to solo that and this and there. They always move around with a combat pair. Always. Or they guard a spot. Got to be the military training from Dennith. It really should be mandatory for new recruits. Splitting up=faster success, also, they follow their summoner, or whomever you appoint them to guard... really they just listen to you
Greeting. When meeting a new person, they say hi and wave. How polite and warm. yeah, you are killing mobs that did absolutely nothing to you and you like a friendly greeting....
Listening what their superior say to them. That is, where to fight next. No running to kill kobolds if plan was to kill giants. Or at least they excuse and move along. kobolds are like 1 shotters, let em build the kill count, makes em feel good inside, everyone needs encouragement!
A hired hand knows the appropriate channels and how to use 'em. No shouting on general for a group or members when there is feature for it. No trading in other than trade channel. Even advices are lsitened on advice channel. Sure its general, but so is a bucket a general container, yet you don't see much people eating or drinking from it, use it as a pot or storage their important papers in it. There are better tools and the NPCs use 'em. the npcs just say stupid (some funny) things, they dont really do much else, literally
Mercenary's take a look from their book of "A clue for about everything: /Glossary" before asking. Yet, mercenaries still cant use a shrine

[Anderei]

We reserve that right! Not to mention, we dont look down on any other human being, just the people that dont listen. Also, the people that ask for advice then refuse to accept it as they dont like the reality of the situation.


There are these and those.

[toughguyjoe]

Excellent...another whiney snotbag veteran thread that makes all veterans look like jerks.
Well done.
his join date suggests he is a disgruntled new player complaining about new players.

or whatever.

[argletahm]

This is DDO, not WoW (although its less and less D&D on every mod). You can't solo dozen monsters, you wont regen mana, you don't 'finish out' to leave quest and no, you wont get a pony. The mercenary's know these. you can... you just need the proper preparation/spells/equipment
The NPC does not ask 'What quest', 'What house', 'Where do i come to', 'What are we doing' or 'is it P2P'. They apparently read the LFM or can look from the quest journal where to come. Or if they would ask, i am sure they would thank for the info. THX is a trade name of a high-fidelity sound reproduction standard for movie theaters, screening rooms, home theaters, computer speakers, gaming consoles, and car audio systems. I still don't get why players always want to talk about it.it's common jargon, if it bother you can just politely ask them not to use it. On the main topic there is the chance someone doesn't know how to get there. Guess what? it is politeness to answer
The hired hand does not burn half of his mana in the first fight or before it. In most cases the NPC has half the blue bar left when coming to first shrine. and infinite mana/healthpots without paying for them. Plus a semi decent player will be equipped enough to cover for big mana losses if needed and, with some experience, how to manage hteir resources.
Any mercenary worth his salt knows not to waste resources and thus they only cast spells when needed. Like just before a fight or even while at it, not week before it. I really don't need remove fear if there is nothing near me that is going to frighten me. Really. yeah whatever, aside the act remove fear also gives a bonus on later saving throws most buffs (especially if extended) last long enough to carry you from shrine to shrine and are better thrown as earlier as possible to avoid having to cast them in the midde of the battle where healing and damage dealing take priority.
When i pay for help, they stick around until the grim deeds are done. Commitment. No silent joining's, holding up the slot for 10mins and then suddenly leaving. NPCs are also not offended if asked 'Do you understand me?'
if you pay me I'll stick with you... but you don't so while I may still be interested in running the quest I could have line problems, have been called in my real life or simply decided that my guildies needing help would take piority..you know I don't get paid..
They do as they are told and fear no battle, they are relentless. One or two or dozen deaths don't matter to them as they are always ready to finish the quest when you have made half way trough or even less!
actually they don't most of the times. And not paying for their resources (either potions/wands/repairing) allows them to be idiots and die. A decent payer would try to avoid deaths.. it's better to run a little while the healer keeps the party goign that a death meaning a tpk (total party kill just so you won't bother).
They know what they are doing and won't cast Shield of Faith on you before they reach level 6 as Protection from Evil is superior before that. Maybe they have higher knowledge skills than PC's as they seem to know what are evil and what are not. Like vermins and animals are not and, lets see, rest of the game is. if I'm not wrong shield of faith and protection from evil stacks for a bug that is currently present. Aside from that usually both get casted if the caster has enough mana, a good player in need to manage wil decide basd on the situatn and level what to cast
They use summon monsters. Only way to bring more manpower to any quest and that is most mana efficient thing to do. Let that celestial dog catch that destruction.some summons are good, some are really bad and waste more mana of what they are worth.. lvl 1,3,5,7,9 are decents the others are just a waste of mana htat would be better spent on some damage/crowd control spells..
They don't whine about repairing or healing. 'You do not regain HPs from positive energy so well? No problem, i grab repair. That should make healers job lot easier, because i know you make more mayhem with the 10 sps than i do'. I am not crying my guts out that i need to dull my blades on some innocent creature.
clerics don't have repair...it's an arcane spell... As a cleric I will try to keep you up as best as possible but you should too be self sufficient..
All mercenary's understand the principles of war. You cant have the spoils of war without the war. First fight, then rummaging the pockets.
any decent player would do that too
There is no I in a team and they know it. They don't' scream on party channel 'HEAL ME' or 'WHY DONT YOU DO <this or that>' or 'I NEED <spell>'.
asking is good, you never know, the cleric could not have noticed your hp has gone dramatically down as he was running around trying to survive and keep the others healed. The caster may not know a certain enemy is vulnerable/resistant to something. HOW you ask it is debatable and a matter of manners. Still I prefer a meee shouting for a heal than a dead melee. Or someone shouting hte caster to use XXXX than a tpk (see above)
Over healing. They don't do it. No really, i don't need 110% HPs when there is chance for spell crits on healing spells (that is a really silly feature in DDO). If i got more than 3/4 i am more than happy.
depends on the caster, on the level of quests, on the level of spells available ecc ecc. Personally a heal (about 400hp healing if not critted)costs me about the same than throwing you that 80 hp empower/maximized cure serious... so why not topping you off for certain if the mana expense is the same...
Moving as a combat pairs, team. No splitting up to 6 different ways, others trying to solo that and this and there. They always move around with a combat pair. Always. Or they guard a spot. Got to be the military training from Dennith. It really should be mandatory for new recruits.
depends on the situation, tendentially I agree with you but if you have in paryt someone that knows the quest well and is sure of what he does why can't he go and do it? I don't mind if everyone is self sufficient. I hate those that spread around die and gets annoying about it. Again it's a matter of knowing what you can and what you cna't do..
Greeting. When meeting a new person, they say hi and wave. How polite and warm.
Greeting is good but it's not mandatory. It's good mannerrs but you can't impose it. Also a "hi" in chat is enough.. everything else is time lost..
Listening what their superior say to them. That is, where to fight next. No running to kill kobolds if plan was to kill giants. Or at least they excuse and move along.
Mercs will run nd kill kobolds and giants too... if they are not killed first... anyway who decides who leads? If I know the quest way better than you and you say something idiotic I will state so and do something else. You don't know the actual game knowledge of others... nor you can state that you know everything.
A hired hand knows the appropriate channels and how to use 'em. No shouting on general for a group or members when there is feature for it. No trading in other than trade channel. Even advices are lsitened on advice channel. Sure its general, but so is a bucket a general container, yet you don't see much people eating or drinking from it, use it as a pot or storage their important papers in it. There are better tools and the NPCs use 'em.
Mercenary's take a look from their book of "A clue for about everything: /Glossary" before asking.
[color=red]while I do most of the times.. some times it's also faster to ask around to speed things up.


my comments are up above in red.
I also add that you probably
1- just took people aroudn without knowing and asking them BEFORE what they can and what they can't do.
2- you assume people should strictly adhere to the stereotype for their class. I can assure you that a good crowd control spells will save far more hp than the same mana in healing spells (and thus the cleric mana on't go down that fast).
3- ever tried to run a high level quest/high difficulty with mercs? I wish you luck with that if you can't solo it...
4- a mercenary has 3-4 skills/spells usable.. a player character will have a lot thus dishing them out when needed. (Read buffs, heals, crowd controls, damage over time, blasts, ecc).
5- while a merc has infinite pots its other equip is really bad. A good status inflicting weapon (paralizer, cursespewing, vorpal, banish, disruption, ecc) can be worth a lot more to the quest's completion than what 5 mercs could pull out through it all.
6- a merc is not wise enough to run. It will stick to what you said till it dies. It's better to run some times and after grab the stones to resurrect the party than to die aimlessy (and you know sometimes no matter how well prepared you are something just goes wrong).
7- you are not a god. You need to learn how to play. First levels are there for that too. You have to learn to know what you character can and can't do and you also have to take into account that others may not be what you expect them to be.

[Uska]

his join date suggests he is a disgruntled new player complaining about new players.

or whatever.

hmm you maybe right buts funny in game its usually hard to tell if someone is new or old

[JasonJi72]

To the original poster, and all that agree with him. A new player can be taught. You will always be an idiot.

I truly hope I never play with you or anyone with your... handicap.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Glad to see hirelings are working out for you.

[MissErres]

Well, the good ones can. :)

Actually, that is exactly what the good ones do. 20 trash mobs, 1 blade barrier, no healing needed. It's more mana efficient. ;)

And BTW... Stop throwing up a dancing ball/using paralyzers/commanding (other clerics) in the middle of my **** blade barrier! :mad: :p

[Kriogen]

Also pro NPCs: They don't mind to run with socially inept people. Or with dork vets who think they are the *** because they play one game over years and therefore can look down on any other human being.
Vets don't need hirelings.

[Junts]

ITT: noob condescends to other noobs, pretends he knows how to play

[Greydeath]

heh, i saw the low IQ scale last night.

Von 3 duo, needed int for the runes, so we figure its easier to grab a hierling wizzie park him at door and call him to do runes when we get there. 2 runes went fine, but on the 3rd... omg what an idiot our merc turned out to be. we stood him right next to the rune and asked him to use it...

" sure thing boss" he says then proceeds to run away while trying to use the rune.. which naturally gives us the message - rune is out of range.

first time was funny, from then on it was maddening. in the end we managed to box him in between the wall, us and a mushroom so he couldnt' run away from the rune.. but he still kept on trying, lol.

gotta love low IQ heirlings (and bad pathing programing by the devs ;))

so yeah.. heirlings have apurpose, but i'd take real person anyday.


Had the same thing happen with a REAL Player... :rolleyes:

[Kadran]

Someone here is missing the point, and it may very well be me. I see several people taking the OP literally, whereas I interpreted it as tongue-in-cheek comedy with a hint of truthfulness to it. I would use hirelings, but they take up inventory space and I never remember to pick them up. :-P

[ApesAmongUs]

True at least you can use a post as a club.
And I doubt a post would run through 3 blade barriers just to stand in a firewall on top of a trap.

[gorgorothsixsixsix]

some people never play a dnd game before, this is just the next mmo they are going to try. so if they don't know a thing or two like x buff better than y, inform them.

you want greetings, you want more than a thx. same here. but i also tell them stuff like buff everyone fire res now, or, trap ahead, no, no, not here, down the stairs, you have to pass through it... dont break crates here... they are not clairvoyant omnipotent creatures, when it's your first time running a quest, you always wonder a bit.

and as some1 else said before, if you are not going to play with people why bother? play nwn. much better, much closer to real thing.

[Kralgnax]

Excellent...another whiney snotbag veteran thread that makes all veterans look like jerks.
Well done.
1) Hello Neighbour!
2) Generalise much?

Just sayin'

[spicytuna]

additions

- hirelings dont ragequit when they die
- hirelings dont get lost in a 4 tunnel quest. apparently they learned how to use the minimap even with its lack of 3d representation.

[Darsith]

So, you imply that when people switch MMOs, they aren't supposed to adapt to the jargin and meanings behind abbreviations of the new game? As a veteran of foreign MMOs, am I just supposed to blindly laugh at any groups forming for SoS because there's no "Swamp of Sorrows" in this game, or am I supposed to learn what SoS means in this game rather than hold onto information that no longer applies here?

I was trying to make a point to the second poster Dieseltrain that there might be a valid excuse why someone may or may not know what TR means


So if I put up an LFM for TR someone is going to think I need help running True Reincarnation?? Granted, no, I haven't TR'd any of my toons yet, but I don't think I'd need to put up an LFM for that. :rolleyes: And since when does anyone really give a rat's a** about proper grammer in a game anyway? Seriously, if someone has an issue with plz, thx, omw, brt, or any other abbreviation, they can kma. ;)

Probably not… but it is possible that a player may or may not mistake that. I cant recall the number of threads that I have seen on this forum complaining about players joining a group that was specifically looking for TR (meaning True Reincarnate characters) that were not TR. Therefore, you may get someone in party that is looking for a True Reincarnate party, thinking that the party will be doing the quest(s) more to gain the much needed exp to level.



In the MMO's that I have been playing for the last few years SC and TR meant greatly different things then what they do in the DDO world (and even then TR can mean Tangle Root or True Reincarnate). In the last game that I played SC meant an area that was infested with heavy caster damage and needed to have the players swap to a whole different set of gear or die in one shot at lvl cap.

Sometimes players forget that the jargon that is so second nature to them is in fact not an acceptable form of English and need to refrain from using it too much. (or even better revert to using an acceptable version of English when addressing those that do not understand what TR or SC means) Just as the players that use inappropriate forms of English grammar to convey their thoughts (plix, thx, pls, plz, plox) may need to be subtly reminded that the internet jargon (often referred to as 'interspeak') that they are currently engaging in is an unacceptable form of communication. The last community that I was apart of had the same issue with over used internet jargon. When it came to the forums they actually initiated an automatic word filter for the commonly used versions of internet jargon that would convert it to proper English grammar. In game, a player had to deal with it, or put the offenders on the ignore list if the inappropriate grammar was in such gross violation that it broke a personal grammar barrier.

Every MMo has its own acronyms and internet speech.. you are going to have to learn to deal with it or play single player games... your choice.... as stated earlier:
I mean as little offense hear as possible… but no **** Sherlock.


I would like to apologize if my original post did not imply my thoughts clearly and adequately the first time around… I guess I could change it to look something of this nature so everyone can understand it.


Great, another a**hat that thinks they know the entire game… why don’t you go play in traffic and save us all the trouble.

Now since I am a new player and obviously a noob in all things, (according to the high and mighty vets with sticks up their asses) I will also go play in traffic.

There I think that more appropriately reflects the level of thought that this thread has deemed necessary.

[Xeriphim]

This is DDO, not WoW (although its less and less D&D on every mod). You can't solo dozen monsters, you wont regen mana, you don't 'finish out' to leave quest and no, you wont get a pony. The mercenary's know these.
The NPC does not ask 'What quest', 'What house', 'Where do i come to', 'What are we doing' or 'is it P2P'. They apparently read the LFM or can look from the quest journal where to come. Or if they would ask, i am sure they would thank for the info. THX is a trade name of a high-fidelity sound reproduction standard for movie theaters, screening rooms, home theaters, computer speakers, gaming consoles, and car audio systems. I still don't get why players always want to talk about it.
The hired hand does not burn half of his mana in the first fight or before it. In most cases the NPC has half the blue bar left when coming to first shrine.
Any mercenary worth his salt knows not to waste resources and thus they only cast spells when needed. Like just before a fight or even while at it, not week before it. I really don't need remove fear if there is nothing near me that is going to frighten me. Really.
When i pay for help, they stick around until the grim deeds are done. Commitment. No silent joining's, holding up the slot for 10mins and then suddenly leaving. NPCs are also not offended if asked 'Do you understand me?'
They do as they are told and fear no battle, they are relentless. One or two or dozen deaths don't matter to them as they are always ready to finish the quest when you have made half way trough or even less!
They know what they are doing and won't cast Shield of Faith on you before they reach level 6 as Protection from Evil is superior before that. Maybe they have higher knowledge skills than PC's as they seem to know what are evil and what are not. Like vermins and animals are not and, lets see, rest of the game is.
They use summon monsters. Only way to bring more manpower to any quest and that is most mana efficient thing to do. Let that celestial dog catch that destruction.
They don't whine about repairing or healing. 'You do not regain HPs from positive energy so well? No problem, i grab repair. That should make healers job lot easier, because i know you make more mayhem with the 10 sps than i do'. I am not crying my guts out that i need to dull my blades on some innocent creature.
All mercenary's understand the principles of war. You cant have the spoils of war without the war. First fight, then rummaging the pockets.
There is no I in a team and they know it. They don't' scream on party channel 'HEAL ME' or 'WHY DONT YOU DO <this or that>' or 'I NEED <spell>'.
Over healing. They don't do it. No really, i don't need 110% HPs when there is chance for spell crits on healing spells (that is a really silly feature in DDO). If i got more than 3/4 i am more than happy.
Moving as a combat pairs, team. No splitting up to 6 different ways, others trying to solo that and this and there. They always move around with a combat pair. Always. Or they guard a spot. Got to be the military training from Dennith. It really should be mandatory for new recruits.
Greeting. When meeting a new person, they say hi and wave. How polite and warm.
Listening what their superior say to them. That is, where to fight next. No running to kill kobolds if plan was to kill giants. Or at least they excuse and move along.
A hired hand knows the appropriate channels and how to use 'em. No shouting on general for a group or members when there is feature for it. No trading in other than trade channel. Even advices are lsitened on advice channel. Sure its general, but so is a bucket a general container, yet you don't see much people eating or drinking from it, use it as a pot or storage their important papers in it. There are better tools and the NPCs use 'em.
Mercenary's take a look from their book of "A clue for about everything: /Glossary" before asking.


+1 for you OP

I can't agree more. Especially on Orien , I cringe every time I gotta pug something out when not enough guildies on to run something .

The other night in gh had two open spots for a 12 - 15 group. took an hour to fill . During which , got several hate tells by froobs who were levels 9 an 10 crying I wouldn't accept them to the group . I explained :

1) gh requires level 10 to enter an do quests

2) we have 15's in the group ... that means at 10 your not getting exp ...

So these same froobs whine more an demand we boot the 15's so they can join an get exp . I lol'd ...

After an hour of this we end up getting a 12 rogue . He joins the group an first things outa his mouth was screaming , yes screaming over his mic " DUDE WUT Q ??? DUDE where I go ? Holy F*ck !!! OMGZ !!! QUEST F'ing SHRE PLZ ! Hello ??? ANyone here Speak englush ??? " We explain to him marketplace , Giant hold . were doing Madstone elite . This numb nuts then goes " OMG !! RED SIGN over head I gotta PAY??? Eff that ! " then drops our group .

When 9 outa 10 pugs act an respond this way an waste time . That's where putting up with inpet npc boobs is almost the better option . If you know the quest an short a healer . Park pocket cleric at entrance , clear to a shrine . summon pocket cleric from entrance to shrine . park at shrine an repeat . Zero hassles , no needless migraines . Now if the quest requires a caster it requires a bit more fiddeling to get the caster to do what you want . but it's do able . If you need a tank the boob hirelings seems to do okay with it . trap monkey well that kills the above plan .



We ended up just short manning madstone with 4 people . We got the quest done in less time then we wasted trying to fill out the group .

Because of the spam in general chats for leetdude an killedbyachic , an other scrub froobs . I turn off general chat , I turn off advice since no one uses it for well advice . Trade I turn off too for same reasons ... No one cares your selling that +1 vanilla longsword for 120k plat ....

So if it vet snobness or whatever ... I could care less . Just a frustrated vet that is sick of picking up people who suck worse then hirelings ... Least with a hireling you know going into it beforehand that you have 0 expectactions . So when the hireling turns out mediocre it's a pleasent suprise .

Pugging out a cleric for a tempest spine run , first thing cleric asks " Do I gotta load a rez spell ? " Ummm *** ? Your a freaking cleric ... it's a raid . Someone is going to not listen an get killed. Rezing them might be usefull .....

In that case we ended up just taking 2 hireling clerics . An shock no one died not even the hirelings died .

Now not all free to play are bad either ... you do get that rare 1 outa 10 that doesn't suck . That isn't afraid to ask questions . That listens an follows directions . Hehe those ones if there not guilded are quick to get a guild invite before someone else snatches them up .

If someones new , polite , an asks questions . Isn't afraid to learn . Does follow directions . An shows a willingness to learn an improve . I got all the time in the world and paitience to work with you ...

Sadly tho the current trend is the 9 outa 10 who do stink up the place that I have no time for .

[jozzcooper]

Grammar...hehe...ok I'm sorry, it was there.

[Ninetoes]

/sigh

OP:

Look, the game is full of bad players. It's a fact. However, the game is ALSO full of people who A.) just started playing the game or B.) Are just now returning to the game after 2+ odd years away (like me).

Now, would you kindly tell me how they're supposed to learn ALL of the information before they deem themselves advanced enough for you to grace them with a group invite? If YOU don't want them, and you don't think they should be in anyone's group, then how are they supposed to level? Or lean what TR means? In none of the inane, raving comparisons you've just made, you've not once offered a solution to any of the problems, outside of "getting a hirling".

When I first started playing this game, people were actually NICE. Not all of them, mind you, but a large majority of them on my server were friendly, helpful, and didn't mind showing you the ropes. Now we have people like you.

I hate to break it to you, BlackSmith, but you were a n00bcake once yourself. You logged into this game, ran around like a jack@ss, asked stupid questions, got yourself killed, and did all manner of ******** things. Don't try and tell me you didn't, because we all did. Every single one of us has been a complete neophyte at this game, and we only learned some things because other people took us under their wing and showed us. I've learned more things from random strangers in the 2 weeks that I've been back than I can shake a stick at. If you don't want to group with people, then don't. Other people have already pointed out the logical brick wall you've run into with that line of reasoning.


I'd rather you took a hireling instead of me. I bet you're a real joy to group with.

[MonsterAbuser]

I'm curious, if we have never done the quest before what the **** is the problem with stating in chat we have not done the quest and where do we need to go to meet up? Is that really that much of a problem? Really?

So how does one go about joining a guild? So far just trying to get an officers attention in several of the guilds I have tried to join has been painful at best.

[dv8maker123]

Someone here is missing the point, and it may very well be me. I see several people taking the OP literally, whereas I interpreted it as tongue-in-cheek comedy with a hint of truthfulness to it. I would use hirelings, but they take up inventory space and I never remember to pick them up. :-P

I'm with you here on that Kadran. I thought it was a pretty funny post, then it turned into an all out vet/newbie war. Thought it was just me missing the boat. BTW, hireling folders from the store are a godsend when it comes to inventory preservation....just buy a medium and stack those clerics up!!!!

[Ninetoes]

I'm curious, if we have never done the quest before what the **** is the problem with stating in chat we have not done the quest and where do we need to go to meet up? Is that really that much of a problem? Really?

So how does one go about joining a guild? So far just trying to get an officers attention in several of the guilds I have tried to join has been painful at best.

Stop abusing the monsters. It's much more humane to simply put them to a quick death.

[MonsterAbuser]

Stop abusing the monsters. It's much more humane to simply put them to a quick death.

But but but what if I am the monster and i just like abusing myself?

[LordMond]

Monster:

It's not so much that someone is asking for information as how they go about asking for information.

When the first thing someone invited to join your group types of says is "Share plz!" rather than, oh, "thanks for inviting me." or something along those lines, it gives you a hint as to what grouping with that person is going to be like. I'm far from an expert in the game and never pretend to be otherwise and if it's a quest that I haven't run ever or in a while or playing a different class, I'll ask if there's anything special in the way of prep (spells, gear, whatever) that I need to bring in order to be the biggest asset to the party I can. And yes I do have to occasionally ask where a questgiver is. But I try to be as polite about it as I can and that kinda motths over possible friction.

As for the Guild thing....best advice I can offer there is to read the Guild Recruitment forums on your particular server with an eye towards finding a guild that has generally the same goals and playstyle (casual, hardcore, raiding, roleplaying, whatever) that you do. Look at is as sorta E-Harmony for DDO. If they have a website (and most do), wander over to it and check it out. Some guilds might have a pretty involved interview process. Most won't. Having a good guild makes the gaming experience that much more rewarding and you might just make a few long-term friends (I still email occasionally with some EQ guildies from 10 years ago or so).

[Ninetoes]

Monster:

It's not so much that someone is asking for information as how they go about asking for information.

When the first thing someone invited to join your group types of says is "Share plz!" rather than, oh, "thanks for inviting me." or something along those lines, it gives you a hint as to what grouping with that person is going to be like. I'm far from an expert in the game and never pretend to be otherwise and if it's a quest that I haven't run ever or in a while or playing a different class, I'll ask if there's anything special in the way of prep (spells, gear, whatever) that I need to bring in order to be the biggest asset to the party I can. And yes I do have to occasionally ask where a questgiver is. But I try to be as polite about it as I can and that kinda motths over possible friction.



Now THIS is constructive, and illustrates the OP's point perfectly. (I've had my coffee now, so I'm less stabby than my previous post might lead you to believe). +1 to you, good sir.

[Ninetoes]

But but but what if I am the monster and i just like abusing myself?

Then I want you to roll on my server and make my 2-man guild a 3-man guild.

Or 2-man-and-one-monster. Whatever.

[MonsterAbuser]

Monster:

It's not so much that someone is asking for information as how they go about asking for information.

When the first thing someone invited to join your group types of says is "Share plz!" rather than, oh, "thanks for inviting me." or something along those lines, it gives you a hint as to what grouping with that person is going to be like. I'm far from an expert in the game and never pretend to be otherwise and if it's a quest that I haven't run ever or in a while or playing a different class, I'll ask if there's anything special in the way of prep (spells, gear, whatever) that I need to bring in order to be the biggest asset to the party I can. And yes I do have to occasionally ask where a questgiver is. But I try to be as polite about it as I can and that kinda motths over possible friction.

I agree with that, however I am going off what the OP said and even daring to ask where a quest was is grounds for the gallows.


Monster:
As for the Guild thing....best advice I can offer there is to read the Guild Recruitment forums on your particular server with an eye towards finding a guild that has generally the same goals and playstyle (casual, hardcore, raiding, roleplaying, whatever) that you do. Look at is as sorta E-Harmony for DDO. If they have a website (and most do), wander over to it and check it out. Some guilds might have a pretty involved interview process. Most won't. Having a good guild makes the gaming experience that much more rewarding and you might just make a few long-term friends (I still email occasionally with some EQ guildies from 10 years ago or so).

Well I'm workin on 4 and beyond now... one I gotta get vouched for but can't be told who actually can do the vouching, one wasn't sure they were looking for my character type (drow ranger) and has stopped responding to my tells (did it every couple of days, not every day) askin for an update and one gave me the contact of someone who doesn't exist. It's annoying to say the least, I agree a guild would probably be good being an FNG but they seem to really make it a pain to join, maybe on purpose.

[Siro]

I can solo a dozen monsters. I can regain spellpoints, through potions or raid items or shroud items. I do often 'finish out' to leave a quest when a dimension door or greater teleport is unavailable. And maybe if they ever put in Druids, I can get a guildy to be a pony.
I've frequently watched hirelings burn over half their SP on the first encounter, only to suck down all their SP pots right before the first shrine. The only way to stop them from doing this is leaving them on passive, which is about as useful as not having a party member.
I've frequently seen arcane casting hirelings waste crowd control spells on single monsters, or instant death spells on monsters almost dead.
I've had hirelings suddenly leave the group, usually rage-quitting at falling into a pit. When i pay for help, I'd appreciate it if it stuck around.
Frequently hirelings do not do as they are told. Often they will continue to beat on something they can't hurt while ignoring my orders. They also tend to put themselves into situations where they die more frequently than real players would.
Hirelings don't know what they are doing. They won't buff you and have an extremely limited spell selection. They don't properly fill a dps or tank role either.
I have never seen a hireling summon a monster on their own. Most of them can't, and the ones that can need to be forced to.
Hirelings tend to exhaust their healing resources incredibly fast. They prefer to be topped off at all times and will do so at the expense of completing the mission. They'll even stand in a trap, healing themselves over and over until they run out (and then they die).
Hirelings don't seem to understand the inventory system, how to trade, or how to accomplish tasks that require unsupervised interaction with an object or npc. This makes several quests difficult or impossible to accomplish with only hirelings.
Over healing. They do it constantly. Despite the fact that they should have lesser cure spells, they will frequently prefer heal or cure mass spells. And remember, they love topping themselves off.
It would be great if I didn't have to hold the hirelings hand around simple objectives like 'open a door, kill the mobs inside and pull a lever while I do the same elsewhere'.


I'll take a player, even a bad one, over a hireling. There is at least the chance, however slim, that a bad player might learn enough from their failures to overcome them at some point and become good players.

[ApesAmongUs]

I'm curious, if we have never done the quest before what the **** is the problem with stating in chat we have not done the quest and where do we need to go to meet up? Is that really that much of a problem? Really?
Well, what you should first do it tab out and do a search on DDO+whatever acronym they are using in the LFG. Then you can easily pull up a walkthrough page to see the best way of running it, and then - as an absolute minimum - you can watch 9-10 videos on youtube of speed runs so you have some idea what you're doing.

After that it should be fine to request to join the group. You probably won't get invited back for another mission unless you went that extra mile and leveled another character to 20 so you could run the mission solo 8-9 times for zero XP, which is what you really should do if you want to be considered a minimally competent player who deserves to play the game.

[LordMond]

I agree with that, however I am going off what the OP said and even daring to ask where a quest was is grounds for the gallows.

Personally, it doesn't bother me much whether or how someone asks for a share. Alot of times one of the first things I do is take the unbelieveably time-consuming task of actually opeing my quest panel and clicking on the "share" button. I mean, two whole mouse clicks. Oh the time wasted......

/sarcasm off

But then I've not been playing the game for four years and so I've been subjected to many fewer such requests than have others. Maybe the skin tends to think over time- I dunno.

[quote[Well I'm workin on 4 and beyond now... one I gotta get vouched for but can't be told who actually can do the vouching, one wasn't sure they were looking for my character type (drow ranger) and has stopped responding to my tells (did it every couple of days, not every day) askin for an update and one gave me the contact of someone who doesn't exist. It's annoying to say the least, I agree a guild would probably be good being an FNG but they seem to really make it a pain to join, maybe on purpose.[/quote]

Ah yes...the guild that requires an "audition". Been there and done that and I never thought it was worth the hassle, particularly because this game is much easier- well it's true!- than was, say, EQ.

My Orien guild asks that prospective members visit the website and register and then contact and officer in game and they invited me just that quickly.

My take on you is that you should look for a guild that emphasizes "mature" somewhere in their description. That's a pretty good filter for removing some of the dramatic aspects you seem to be going through. Keep plugging away...you seem a pretty decent fellow.

[phalaeo]

In the MMO's that I have been playing for the last few years SC and TR meant greatly different things then what they do in the DDO world (and even then TR can mean Tangle Root or True Reincarnate). In the last game that I played SC meant an area that was infested with heavy caster damage and needed to have the players swap to a whole different set of gear or die in one shot at lvl cap.

Sometimes players forget that the jargon that is so second nature to them is in fact not an acceptable form of English and need to refrain from using it too much. (or even better revert to using an acceptable version of English when addressing those that do not understand what TR or SC means) Just as the players that use inappropriate forms of English grammar to convey their thoughts (plix, thx, pls, plz, plox) may need to be subtly reminded that the internet jargon (often referred to as 'interspeak') that they are currently engaging in is an unacceptable form of communication. The last community that I was apart of had the same issue with over used internet jargon. When it came to the forums they actually initiated an automatic word filter for the commonly used versions of internet jargon that would convert it to proper English grammar. In game, a player had to deal with it, or put the offenders on the ignore list if the inappropriate grammar was in such gross violation that it broke a personal grammar barrier.

I'd rather have a Plz, Pls, Thx or whatever than no acknowledgment at all. Generally though, I agree with you- the "textspeak" really is annoying and needs to go.

[NaturalMystik]

A fun thread, and I definitely see both sides of the argument for hirelings over players.

I'm a n00b playing a wiz/rogue. I like solo play and as a result usually need to travel with a cleric in my pocket. Since I'm still new it's nice to be in a group that doesn't take off and zerg a dungeon I don't know. I'm an admitted crawler. But man I've seen those pocket clerics do some stupid things... Of course there is the usual standing in a trap until death. But for me this one instance takes the cake... I was at the beginning of the Haunted Library, my first encounter with a golem. I had no idea how to take it down, and wasn't doing any damage. I got hit with a cursed wound, and ended up going unconscious. Because of cursed wound I couldn't regenerate, or be healed... So what does my pocket cleric do? She spends every single SP trying to heal me, ignoring every click I make to try and force her to fight the golem. Brutal... I suppose the mission was doomed as soon as I got cursed wound anyway, but I blame the epic fail on the part of my hireling! ;)

Certainly waiting to form a group of real players can be frustrating and annoying and the more time I spend on the server I start to recognize certain 'characters' that you definitley don't want to party with... But now I'm starting to see the it's the social aspect or MMO part of this game that I'm finding to be really addictive. I think playing with a well balanced group of chill folks can be much more fun than soloing with a hireling, although both have a time and place...

[BlackSmith81]

I look at you with contempt because you look at World of Warcraft with contempt. Why i get this feeling you didn't get past the first sentence? Or just didn't get it.

another whiney snotbag veteran thread that makes all veterans look like jerks. Whine is something that does not have grounds. Veterans are not snotbags, the recruits are. Veterans are those that been there, done that and seen too much. Veterans rarely are jerks because in war, no one wants to save a jerk thus the number of jerks diminishes over time.

Should I wait to just before the fight to cast my 28 min blur on the tanks on a medium length quest? Why are you casting 28min long spells in a quest where it takes less than 10mins to reach the first shrine?

Should I waste my/yours/everybody's time displaying my exemplary dominion over the laws of grammatical correctness in party chat wel if u rilly niid to bekauz ten sum 1 migt actually belowstand wut u r saying OMFGwipeGTFO***HIILZressPLZ!!!!!!1111oenoneone

Should I let the party die on the beggining of a quest so I can get to the shrine with half my SP bar? Maybe you should so that the party leader notices how crappy caster you are and take an NPC to replace you that can get to the same shrine with half the blue left.

Do you /bow every time you join a group? No, but i do greet. I salute fellow guild members and usually same race members. Also friends i hug or at least greet. I do bow for those that i respect.

Why is it that bringing a newbie to a group is better than taking a vet? Give the reasons in OP, its usually not.

Now to the OP.... Because you didn't take the time to use proper quoting, it's pain in the ass to answer to your post. So i pay you the favor back.

Yeah, i know WoW is bad. Actually, yes it is. Ever heard of disspell? So according to you if the partys Clr or FvS does not wan't to use mana on healing, rest of the group is then obligated to burn resources on self suffiency. You really sound like a team player. I don't understand what you have written, please i.e. Sorry but no. DA will definitely kill you and there is no way around it. Not if your in wrong quest.

his join date suggests he is a disgruntled new player complaining about new players. When you started here, swapping weapons as a 2WF needed some really fast fingers and/or really tidy inventory, Pal with starting level as Sor or Clr could do LoH's that out healed pure Clr's, and SoS was teh best weapon ever while khopes was considered as most suckiest weapon ever (even tough it broke the core weapon rules of D&D even then). When i started there was no real UI, your characters were maybe erased, there was only few so hard core mages that had more than 11 HPs at level 1, by clicking you had better RoF than with auto attack, there was intro quests for e.g. tumbling where you had to succeed or you could not start playing, tumbling actually had some point, bank was just a dream, GMs knowed you by name and dropped a hello, you had to actually use the DD skill to disable, spells were not doing 20x times the damage they should do and cloudkill was the king of the hill.

my comments are up above in red. How nice. They are really easy to be replield when done like that. Your friends of epochofcrepuscule?

Why should one be? Is it a MMO or not?

1- just took people aroudn without knowing and asking them BEFORE what they can and what they can't do.
2- you assume people should strictly adhere to the stereotype for their class. I can assure you that a good crowd control spells will save far more hp than the same mana in healing spells (and thus the cleric mana on't go down that fast). I assume that when i certain class joins my group, the person is trying to play that class to its full potential. If your a Bbn that tries to be a mage with tons of wands and trinkets, thats fine but if you don't tell what you are and your not doing what Bbn's do best, then you are soon facing lots of ???'s.

3- ever tried to run a high level quest/high difficulty with mercs? I wish you luck with that if you can't solo it... Yes i have and they don't go running to a traps that do minimum if 200 points of damage. Maybe they listen when i first say on voice that there is traps, write on chat that there is trap in there and there and use the emote stop just before the trap.

a mercenary has 3-4 skills/spells usable.. a player character will have a lot thus dishing them out when needed. Why do i not see mages casting repairs on warforgeds, blinding opponents when there are lot of Rog's in party, using displacement instead of blur or vice versa, people casting protection when resistance is needed, protection from elements when only one type is needed, GH casted when there is bard in group and so on and so on and so on.
Merc might have 4 spells and only two of those even usable, but at least they got two good spells.

A good status inflicting weapon (paralizer, cursespewing, vorpal, banish, disruption, ecc) can be worth a lot more to the quest's completion than what 5 mercs could pull out through it all. Fact that you are comparing items that are average of 100 times more expensive than a merc, is just hilarious.

It's better to run some times and after grab the stones to resurrect the party than to die aimlessy. True, but what about the times when the only person(s) in group has been idle for last 15mins? At least the NPC is TRYING to do something against all odd's and he might even succeed while the idler just gets to your nerves and rest of the groups.

You have to learn to know what you character can and can't do and you also have to take into account that others may not be what you expect them to be. I know what they can, can not and i even know the reasons WHY they are not allowed to do certain things. Of course i know new players don't usually know what Armour Class even means or BAB or why Rog 4/Bbn2 really should have improved uncanny dodge. Should not the new players also take account that there are players that know the game, the game this game is based on, the game that is based on the game that is based on this game and listen what they say?

A new player can be taught. Only if they listen what they are told.

I would use hirelings, but they take up inventory space and I never remember to pick them up. :-P Same. 'Oh we had a dropoutter. Well i run to start and summon us a nice, almost unlimited potion of healing. *Doh* I forgot to buy one *sulking while waiting for a replacement*'.

inform them. In the old times, games had manuals. Now days they have tutorials, hints, helps, guides and so on. All kind of nice, dynamic ways to gain knowledge. In old times, you didn't read the manual, you died in first 5mins. Always. Now you can click away half the game. If there would be introduction to core aspects to the game (BAB, AC, spells, stacking) before new players can join the real game, there would be lot less trafic on /advice, facepalms, mocking, character build failures, :eek:'s, :mad:'s and so on.

when it's your first time running a quest, you always wonder a bit. Does wondering mean you run your mage in each trap, encounter and chest there is while the warriors chase the agro tail that is chaising you?

- hirelings dont get lost in a 4 tunnel quest. apparently they learned how to use the minimap even with its lack of 3d representation.
Good point. Adding now.

I hate to break it to you, BlackSmith, but you were a n00bcake once yourself. You logged into this game, ran around like a jack@ss, asked stupid questions, got yourself killed, and did all manner of ******** things. Don't try and tell me you didn't, because we all did.. Sorry i have to break this to You but no, I was not. I can even tell you there are quite lot of persons like me. See the game DDO is based on a another game. A real, quite well balanced game. I will not tell you the secret in open but if you send me case of Strongbow i tell you in private.
Sure I have asked stupid questions like 'What have they screwd now? *** is this silly bow strength and why there is no mighty bows?! Who's idea was to add those spell crits to spells that don't use attack rolls? How more hideous can AI be? Who's brainfart is to add "Elf, Drow" in every **** place? It is told clearly in Drows description that they are subrace of Elves. Whats the point putting a CR 17 regenerating creature in lvl 9 quest?' and so on.
Yes i have done some not-so-well-mannered things, but i do have to say i was very very drunk, very annoyed of the laziness/giev-gold-attitude of an player, tired or both or even all three.
Sure i have died. I think my 'record' of deaths in one quest is something like 147. But so what? Like i would have lost 147 levels or something like you should? Or that there would be 10mins of casting time in rais/ress like it should? Or that someone could loot your character up on death, like it should be possible? Or that the game does not have a) unlimited amount of exp b) unlimited amount of money? If one would loose something significant, something that really hurts, then i would understand people backing out up on death. "Hey we just lost 10% of our total exp because that rog can't do his job/the wiz tries to one shot all/clr thinks he is a warrior/soloer does not listen leader", but loosing some cash and getting a negative level for one minute? Comoon, get a spine.

I can solo a dozen monsters. Good for you. Usually people can solo dozen monsters in a same level quest as they are but only once or twice before they run out of juice.

I can regain spellpoints, through potions or raid items or shroud items. Yes, REGAIN. You do not REGENERATE spell points in DDO. You cant sit down and spend 5mins eating ham and go blasting trough the next encounter. If you can regain spell points, then you are using some top end gear. How much such you get for say, 10k?

I do often 'finish out' to leave a quest when a dimension door or greater teleport is unavailable. Really? The red bar that grows says 'Finishing out' and the help texts, intros all in game say 'finish out quest when you want to leave the dungeon'?
No, you are ReCalling, or more commonly said, RCeing. You are finishing out a quest when you fulfill the last objective. 'Kill the last troll?' "Sure, there is nothing more to gain. FO."

if they ever put in Druids, I can get a guildy to be a pony. I don't know about guildy's but you could Wild Shape to a small or medium sized horse or pony or mule or whatever animal you wan't. Then someone could ride you all day long!

The only way to stop them from doing this is leaving them on passive, which is about as useful as not having a party member. So is getting a party member that does not play with the party, but at least the hireling tries to obey your commands.

I've frequently seen arcane casting hirelings waste crowd control spells on single monsters, or instant death spells on monsters almost dead. Funny, i see same things with real players! In middle of elite raid, a mage can PK, FoD or disintigrate a one lonely monster while there are half dozen sword swingers. Even better, if the target saves the first one, he will burn mana until its dead. How remarkable coincidence!

I've had hirelings suddenly leave the group, usually rage-quitting at falling into a pit. Maybe i handle mine better as i haven't encountered such.

Often they will continue to beat on something they can't hurt while ignoring my orders. I have some demigod features left from old glory days and i can do such things as call my hireling back to me, kick em out the party or simply giggle and watch as they die as there is nothing to loose.

Over healing. They do it constantly. Post me a .avi where a NPC heals you automagicly to 100% or ****.

It would be great if I didn't have to hold the hirelings hand around simple objectives like 'open a door, kill the mobs inside and pull a lever while I do the same elsewhere'.It would be great if I didn't have to hold the players hand around simple objectives like 'open a door, kill the mobs inside and pull a lever while I do the same elsewhere', but at least the hireling tries to do what it is told.

A fun thread, and I definitely see both sides of the argument for hirelings over players.

I'm a n00b playing a wiz/rogue. Now i just don't believe you. There are numerous people in this thread that are medbies and they have missed the threads point by mile or more. Secondly, new players don't create best combo characters. Thirdly, new players don't understand sarcasm or irony or humor if there is not tons of smiley's, a banner that blinks 'READ WITH THOUGHT' or that the obvious things are not drawn or in generally in any way understand both sides of the coin.
So admit who you are. Don't make me google you and log in to BatMUD to pkill you.

I'm an admitted crawler. 'Confess' it in your bio or add it to your hello alias. That way those that want' to speed play have the chance to take your game style in account. It will result to more satisfying groups for you. Trust me.

She spends every single SP trying to heal me, ignoring every click I make to try and force her to fight the golem. Try to play a warfoged and take a warfoged mage with you. Guess what it will do when you drop. Nope, it will NOT cast a repair spell on you. Instead it will walk over to you and try to use repair kit on you. Over and over until it runs out, it succeeds or it gets killed. Only if you spamm its repair spell on yourself, it might actually cast it and the show goes on. Great AI. I have seen better AI scripts done by teenagers in Baldur's Gate.

I blame the epic fail on the part of my hireling! I Hope you booted him REAL GOOD. Without any tipping!

I think playing with a well balanced group of chill folks can be much more fun than soloing with a hireling Totally. It does not matter if your 3h raid is total failure with fazilons of deaths if you have been laughing your ass of the whole time. Its supposed to be fun, yes? Soloing is something to be done when you can't commit in to a group (or don't have the balls to say 'i need to go afk everyone once and while, its that ok?') and the AH has nothing new. Constantly soloing in MMO is like having sex alone. Your missing half the fun.

[Babumbalaboo]

Why i get this feeling you didn't get past the first sentence? Or just didn't get it.

I don't need to get past the first sentence when the first half of the first sentence blatantly screams "Hey, look at me! I play DDO, which is so much more challenging than WoW, so I'm going to make a completely irrelevant jab at it in the hopes of boosting my shattered ego!"

That said, I did read your entire original post, and I found it quite refreshing. It was a well thought-out list of those little annoying things that other players do which can drive a person mad. It mixed a fair amount of humour with a fair amount of truth, making it a fairly fair post of fairness.

But you bashed WoW just for the sake of bashing WoW, and I really hate people who do that.

[phalaeo]

Really Long Quote

Dude.....lol.

That is the most involved response to a thread that (I believe) I've ever seen on the internets. Gold Star for effort.

[Aristalla]

[list=1]

I'll take a player, even a bad one, over a hireling. There is at least the chance, however slim, that a bad player might learn enough from their failures to overcome them at some point and become good players.

Well said sir.

[phillymiket]

Hello all. Im a lifelong PnP player new to DDO. What a great game!
Ive noticed this...
Now that ive got some equipment and game experience under my belt i get a different reaction from more vet players, they are more patient and polite with my errors...Do you follow my drift, its more then that i have learned a bit, its that more respect is given on the assumption ive been around longer. So clearly some people go in to pugs and after one look deside its n00b city and the gloves come off.
Dont get me wrong, i have had great experiences with folks who have shown me the way and ive taken more then ive given for sure. But i would respectfully point out that being a vet means you dont see all the picture because some of the stuff wouldnt happen with you around.
Ex. -Asking to join a group with a tell like "Ive never run that can i join?" or even being ASKED to join and then have someone say "im zerging, sorry if you die" and theyre off blasting past monsters with an equipment induced speed the rest could never match leaving the rest to wallow in DAed monsters left in you wake. Why invite,why not quit the party if you were going to solo?
-Not picking up some peoples soul stones but picking up others.
-backing off and shield blocking while the new folks die.
That kind of stuff is just wrong. Again dont get me wrong, ive also had new players bug me for free stuff or screw up quests just for the laugh because (i assume) this isnt their real game.
One thing that cracked me up was a question on advice that went unanswered for a long while. After a few "anyones?" from the poster someone replied "i think its..." with the wrong answer...Someone else fires back "NOOBS GET OFF ADVICE". I see that person has time to stomp someone but no time for the question. (of course that is rare, most of the time a vet is quick with the correct).
The best quests ive had with new and old players started with news owning up that they were new and the vets giving advice.
At least in PnP when someone started new it was a trade off...you lose speed in playing, and have to explain alot- You gain freshness and a newborn love of the game. Seems fair.
Sorry for the long post - Thanks to the forum for all the great posts and builds!

[NaturalMystik]

Now i just don't believe you. There are numerous people in this thread that are medbies and they have missed the threads point by mile or more. Secondly, new players don't create best combo characters. Thirdly, new players don't understand sarcasm or irony or humor if there is not tons of smiley's, a banner that blinks 'READ WITH THOUGHT' or that the obvious things are not drawn or in generally in any way understand both sides of the coin.
So admit who you are. Don't make me google you and log in to BatMUD to pkill you.

Hah... Who am I? Just a guy who's spent many years on the internet as well as playing all manor of D&D games, video and pnp. I also know that multiclassing a wiz/rog is not the best idea for your first toon, and my build is probably riddled with mistakes but I'm liking the combo. Next time around I'll probably go with something pure, knowing that I'll be playing with others who can fill those skill gaps. If we grouped you'd know I was new as soon as I casted melf's on a mob that was three quarters dead and flanked by three fighters... ;)


'Confess' it in your bio or add it to your hello alias. That way those that want' to speed play have the chance to take your game style in account. It will result to more satisfying groups for you. Trust me.

Yeah I did that, for the exact reason you mentioned, more satisfying groups.


Totally. It does not matter if your 3h raid is total failure with fazilons of deaths if you have been laughing your ass of the whole time. Its supposed to be fun, yes?

The heart of the matter, fun *is* the point! I've always enjoyed D&D video games, and co-op is so much more fun. Now if only there was a way to implement gold box style turn-based combat... But I realize in an MMO everyone would be bored to tears waiting for everyone to make moves...

[stormdragon]

Honestly I can take or leave hirelings, sure since F2P has come along more and more people aren't sure where to go but a little patience usually goes a long way. As for the rush, and bad playing I always ask : Are you trying to get through this as fast as possible? If the answer is yes then I just say no prob let me find another group cause I’ll just slow you down. Lately I have been hanging with a group of Rpers and Dungeons have been a whole lot more fun…..at the end of the day I guess nothing beats your own dedicated group of like minded players regardless of your play style,

[calvinklien]

[list=1] This is DDOblahblahblahgen mana

sounds like i'd rather play with a bot than you too. and the hirelings are stewwwpid. have fun.

[Orratti]

They can't sneak for **** and soloing isn't soloing if I need a babysitter. In groups I heal better alone than the hireling and they are always the 1st to die. Maybe because I won't heal them.

[stilldamom]

I just want to know who you are (OP) and waht server you play on so when you have your LFM up and need a cleric/bard/whatever, I know not to join you.

[GunboatDiplomat]

Sounds like someones had a bad pug too many. Still, if its people who are upsetting you so much maybe a MMO isn't the right game for you.

I recommend Dragon Age Origins, you can micromanage the behaviour whole party down to most minute detail, just like Hitler on the eastern front (oops!) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law). You can also pause the action to issue spanks as and when necesary or reload if a fight didn't go too well. Also just like the Eastern Front (ok maybe not...)

[BlackSmith81]

I don't need to get past the first sentence when the first half of the first sentence blatantly screams "Hey, look at me! I play DDO, which is so much more challenging than WoW, so I'm going to make a completely irrelevant jab at it in the hopes of boosting my shattered ego!" First of all for the response for that, D&D(O) is more challenging. Yes there are tricks that you need to know to be able to do certain raids (3* cheers for 10 man raids), but in D&D you need to know the tricks against all certain conditions that can be countered since level one. e.g. stacking is totally different from WoW. Only thing i find challenging in WoW anymore is PvP and thats all the game has to offer. At least until next part comes out. Another example that you started DDO in good old times with average of 4 HPs as a mage. No there is no zero missing or any other number. In WoW you can go running around the maps with level 1 character and if not picking fight with more powerful opponent, you can take a coffee break while it hammers you down to half HPs. Now DDOs start is the same but slowly the curve gets more what it should be. 'No, you can't do traps as a paladin. You will not survive them in elite as you get slapped with 1,5* your max HPs worth of damage on first failed save'.

Secondly, the point that you missed was that when a WoW player comes to DDO they assume the game mechanics and the power are the same. After watching couple times when a elf rogue goes sneaking into a group and tries to solo all of them, i am tempted to ask 'What server do you play your night elf rog?'. Because, 8/10 i get a answer. And if the monsters type is undead he is trying to damage trough SA, i just facepalm top of that. Specially if we are out of Korthos, Harbour and Mp.

That is the most involved response to a thread that (I believe) I've ever seen on the internets. Gold Star for effort. In old WotC forums archives i am sure i have couple more posts among those 14k of mine that have needed to break down in 3 posts as the length limitations. DDO EU forums have at least one that i have needed to break down to 7 posts.

One thing that cracked me up was a question on advice that went unanswered for a long while. After a few "anyones?" from the poster someone replied "i think its..." with the wrong answer...Someone else fires back "NOOBS GET OFF ADVICE". I see that person has time to stomp someone but no time for the question. (of course that is rare, most of the time a vet is quick with the correct). Thats just plain wrong. I hope they would turn FF on and allow offensive actions at public. People like that should just be pkilled couple times.

I also know that multiclassing a wiz/rog is not the best idea for your first toon, and my build is probably riddled with mistakes but I'm liking the combo. Next time around I'll probably go with something pure, knowing that I'll be playing with others who can fill those skill gaps. Based on your gold box comment, just keep pumping points in search, DD and OL and you'll do fine. Just don't take more than couple levels of Rog as then your caster levels are getting too big swing, but side of that if you would be a warforged i would have a guild for you.

If we grouped you'd know I was new as soon as I casted melf's on a mob that was three quarters dead and flanked by three fighters... ;) Or those three tanks that flank it do next to zero damage as they are using swords to whack down a skeleton and you wan't to get the quest done before boot...

Now if only there was a way to implement gold box style turn-based combat... But I realize in an MMO everyone would be bored to tears waiting for everyone to make moves... They could have made DDO more to the lines of 3½ but that just so big can of worms that i don't want to go over in this thread too.

[Siro]

Good for you. Usually people can solo dozen monsters in a same level quest as they are but only once or twice before they run out of juice.

It's hard to run out of juice when you're not using any. There are a number of ways to accomplish this. Good luck!


Yes, REGAIN. You do not REGENERATE spell points in DDO. You cant sit down and spend 5mins eating ham and go blasting trough the next encounter. If you can regain spell points, then you are using some top end gear. How much such you get for say, 10k?

They're substantively the same thing in this game. I could eat a ham if I wanted hitpoints. For spellpoints I can either get hit a bunch of times, switch to wands, quaff a potion, use a clicky, or rest at a shrine. Realistically though, a standard group should not require anything other than reaching the next shrine in an at level normal difficulty quest.


Really? The red bar that grows says 'Finishing out' and the help texts, intros all in game say 'finish out quest when you want to leave the dungeon'?
No, you are ReCalling, or more commonly said, RCeing. You are finishing out a quest when you fulfill the last objective. 'Kill the last troll?' "Sure, there is nothing more to gain. FO."

You seem to have some sort of fundamental problem with the nomenclature in this game. This is only your problem, especially in regards to how the buttons in question are labeled. Recalling would imply leaving the quest before the primary objective is completed.