What the fetch, people...

[Lyniaer]

I'm on Sarlona and I'm eager to know if this bullcrap is going down in other places as well.

I'm looking at LFMs right now for missions that are level 12, 14, 16... All with level range set to 17-20. Most of the difs are set to normal. For what complex reason would anyone need to do Zawabis Revenge with 17's-20's. I can understand getting flagged for Demon Queen, but, comon.

Vale Walk-Ups 17-20? ***.
Shroud 17-20? Can no one handle this 14-16 anymore? It's 18k XP for most first-timers, Wasted! And good luck getting a Shroud raid together if the level range is set to 14-16.
The Crucible 17-20? Comon. I've done Crucible on Elite with level ranges 8-11 before Mod9 cut access to Gianthold until Lv10.
GH-Walkups, period. 15+ level range. Really?
Vault of Night! Vault of Night! 1-4! 15-20! NORMAL!

I can come to grips with doing these things on Elite for favor at higher levels. But there's literally dozens of LFMs, every day, undercutting those that need XP, running these quests constantly for some Sigil or Puzzle Piece or Ingredient for Green Steel... It's getting out of hand and it's take some people way to long to pass from 14-17.

It has to stop. The level ranges have to come down. Too many people farming with their 20's for bull ****. Actually, I can't complain about that. I have no right to tell people what to do with their characters.
But, I can still ask..no..beseech! to lower the ranges to their appropriate ranges. If you're 17 doing a 15 mission, don't fkin' set the range to 17-20. Set it to 15-17 so everyone can win; not just you.

Now; let the flaming and the yelling and the calling me an a$$hole begin...because no one on the forums is allowed to make an observation, statement or request. -.-

[Oreg]

I think it is more likely a case of them having a 20 in the group and probably don't want a 16 or below to join and be ****ed cuz they lost out on xp and now the group has to wait for someone else.

Most are favor runs or flagging runs not necessarily xp runs.

Also, try a second TR and tell me if you want to waste your Gianthold xp prior to like level 14. It is a whole different mindset on leveling.

Your solution to lower the level to 15-17 is far more misleading as anyone in that range will lose xp on those quests because a level 20 is in the group.

Now are you are saying that these are level 15s that are putting up lfm's for 17-20?

Honestly I can't figure out what your beef is without knowing the level of the people putting up the LFMs.

[Sirea]

Don't tell other people how to play. Want a lower level group? Make your own.

[Lyniaer]

Don't tell other people how to play. Want a lower level group? Make your own.

People have tried.
If it was that simple I would be doing that instead of being angry.
And I've already said I'm not trying to tell people how to play. Try reading first before you go about with your hater posts.

As to what Oreg said; it's both. There's level 11's setting their LFM's far above their own level for, say, a level 14 quest. It's chaotic. CHAOS.

[Lyniaer]

Ooh. Here's an example at this very moment. Invaders!:Normal Dif. Level 12. The party starter is level 13. The level setting is 14-18. ?!?!?!

Everything from Vale -> Forward has been dominated for the longest time by 17's-20's. That's for 12-17's. Shavarath and so forth; all dominated by 17-20.

[Lost_Leader]

..... It's chaotic. CHAOS.

Mass Hysteria! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0)

[Junts]

I would account that some of the desert quests may be epic lfms; epic isnt selectable on the difficulty options for lfming.

Whats more likely is that people arent changing their default level range, and consequently you're getting wierd looking or exclusive-looking ranges. If I put up a vale lfm on my 20 and dont bother to change the level numbers, it says 18-20.

[Lithic]

Any raid that doesn't include lvl 20s is gonna take a long time to fill. Since the highest level is gonna be 20, putting it 17-20 weeds out the morons who join a raid on a lvl 14 character, then whine about not getting exp. Its just easier and simply. Anyone who isnt a total idiot knows they can send a tell and see if the leader will let them in despite the exp penalty. A simple "hey im lvl XX, I don't care about xp, mind if I come" will usually lead to an invite.

VON 1-4 is the exact same thing. A group of 17-20s will fly through the flagging, then move on to the raid after. Such characters are also way more likely to stick around to do the raid right after. ADQ1? Same flagging issue.

Other quests with high min levels can be attributed to someone wanting super speed runs for flagging (relics for GH), for items (Stones in the vale quest), or other valid reasons. I'd bet alot of the high min lvl parties already have someone on their high end of the LFM. If you think you can contribute despite being lower level, nothing is stopping you from sending a polite tell.


In any case, if you don't like the group's level range, make your own group for the same quest with a lower range.

[Sirea]

People have tried.
If it was that simple I would be doing that instead of being angry.
And I've already said I'm not trying to tell people how to play. Try reading first before you go about with your hater posts.

But in essence, you are telling people how to play, whether you think you are or aren't.

It's hard to convey intent and tone in places like an internet forum, but I wasn't trying to be a "hater", more matter-of-fact. You don't like it, do something about it, instead of expecting others to.

[Sirea]

Ooh. Here's an example at this very moment. Invaders!:Normal Dif. Level 12. The party starter is level 13. The level setting is 14-18. ?!?!?!

Everything from Vale -> Forward has been dominated for the longest time by 17's-20's. That's for 12-17's. Shavarath and so forth; all dominated by 17-20.

There's really no reason to do Vale at level 12 anymore, you don't get the XP bonus for being below the quest level anymore. Better to save Gianthold for 12-15ish and do Vale from 14-17ish. And I believe Shroud is minimum level 14 anyway now, from what I've heard. The Shavarath quests are all in the 18-20 range, so 17-20 is appropriate. Same with Inspired Quarter and Reaver's Refuge.

The Invaders LFM could be a newer person who wants to play it safe with some higher level characters, or someone farming tokens.

[Lyniaer]

...do something about it, instead of expecting others to.

I am.

To Lithic: It's been like this for a couple months, now. I have a wizard stuck at 14. I used to use it for Shroud farming and now I can't get into a Shroud. Even if I ask I get blown off or told 'No' because it's 14. I used to have 5 Shroud-capable characters; now I just have 1, a Cleric.

And I 'do' mind the XP hits. I have to squeek my way from 14-17 over weeks and weeks of pitiful XP because no one can get groups for serious stuff. I've joined a dozen groups trying to do Reaver's Refuge, Vale Walk-ups and so on for XP and people just are not joining.

I feel damned bad for True Rezzed people who need twice the XP to level up unless they sit there and 'plan' what quests they're gonna do from 4-20 to avoid a pitfall like I'm in with my Paladin.

[rest]

My TR'd buddy on Sarlona was saying the same thing before he hit 17. All the great xp stuff was up for 17-20.

[Hokiewa]

I am.

To Lithic: It's been like this for a couple months, now. I have a wizard stuck at 14. I used to use it for Shroud farming and now I can't get into a Shroud. Even if I ask I get blown off or told 'No' because it's 14. I used to have 5 Shroud-capable characters; now I just have 1, a Cleric.

And I 'do' mind the XP hits. I have to squeek my way from 14-17 over weeks and weeks of pitiful XP because no one can get groups for serious stuff. I've joined a dozen groups trying to do Reaver's Refuge, Vale Walk-ups and so on for XP and people just are not joining.

I feel damned bad for True Rezzed people who need twice the XP to level up unless they sit there and 'plan' what quests they're gonna do from 4-20 to avoid a pitfall like I'm in with my Paladin.

Ridiculous....Your not stuck at level 14 as a wiz, your stuck because you are cherry picking what you want to do. I hear this complaint far more then yours. You can solo EVERYTHING at your level, and most level 16 quests. Instead of whining (which is what your doing), make your own LFM (your previous post indicated that "others" have tried but not you specifically).

As a caster, you are NEVER "squeeking" your way for xp.....XP is so easily obtained....blah blah.............

[Lyniaer]

Virginia Tech? All I heard was:


....blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah............blah blah........

[Lyniaer]

And for everyone's edification; I've had an LFM up for about 2 hours.
Vale Walk Ups on Elite for XP 15-18
I'm running a 16 Pally.

Anything wrong with that?
Didn't think so.

[Hokiewa]

Virginia Tech? All I heard was:

Lol, you are absurd.

Instead of your OP, you could have posted the following in your "server" specific forum:

"Hey guys, I need a little help. I'm having a hard time finding groups around <insert level here>. This is the <insert time you normally play> I play. Here is how you contact me in game <insert your most played characters names>."

It's likely you aren't in a guild (or at the most a low pop one), and you obviously haven't endeared yourself to many people on the server you play.

Good luck:rolleyes:

[Impaqt]

Edit!

I've leveled 3 Characters over the past 4 months. Barely slowed down at all.. 14-17 breezed by in no time... Did sayers while I had LFM's up or just started soloing with anLFM up. Groups filled quickly and once they were together I coudl do a few hours with no issue.

I think the issue lies elsewhere.

[Maxwell1380]

Op...leveling would probably be easier for you if you were in a viable guild...that's one of the huge benefits of being in a diverse guild, Peeps in your level range to run with.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Don't like it, make your own group. Easy, problem solved.


And for everyone's edification; I've had an LFM up for about 2 hours.
Vale Walk Ups on Elite for XP 15-18
I'm running a 16 Pally.

Anything wrong with that?
Didn't think so.

Maybe your reputation isn't helping you? Or your guild affiliation or lack thereof?

Do you not have any friends/guildies who over 2 hours could have joined you?

[Oreg]

And for everyone's edification; I've had an LFM up for about 2 hours.
Vale Walk Ups on Elite for XP 15-18
I'm running a 16 Pally.

Anything wrong with that?
Didn't think so.

Well, sort of. The problem is that a Paladin is not a mass destruction character. A cleric/FVS or sorc/wiz throwing up the same LFM would probably fill or at least get 2-3 joining because the Vale slayers are all about maximizing kills per minute by farming certain spots and then resetting the instance.

[Lyniaer]

So glad everyone could do exactly as I predicted and start in with the name-calling and the put-downs and the High School maturity. Must make these persons feel good or something. Glad they're not having any issues when almost anyone I group with has voiced the same complaint where they cannot get any viable XP parties when the LFMs are over-run with zergmuffins and loot-wh0r3z at max level.
And any Guild I know of worth being in are made of the people that are causing this insanity in the first place.

If anyone has anything worthwhile to add, up to and including agreement with the OP, then feel free to post.
All the rest of you can take your elite DDO skills of awesomeness and maybe get a job?

[Nott]

So glad everyone could do exactly as I predicted and start in with the name-calling and the put-downs and the High School maturity. Must make these persons feel good or something. Glad they're not having any issues when almost anyone I group with has voiced the same complaint where they cannot get any viable XP parties when the LFMs are over-run with zergmuffins and loot-wh0r3z at max level.
And any Guild I know of worth being in are made of the people that are causing this insanity in the first place.

If anyone has anything worthwhile to add, up to and including agreement with the OP, then feel free to post.
All the rest of you can take your elite DDO skills of awesomeness and maybe get a job?So the only worthwhile response is one that agrees with the OP?

As to "And any Guild I know of worth being in are made of the people that are causing this insanity in the first place" -- that seems like an odd sentence. You think they're causing insanity and yet you think they're the only guilds worth being in.

[Sirea]

So glad everyone could do exactly as I predicted and start in with the name-calling and the put-downs and the High School maturity. Must make these persons feel good or something. Glad they're not having any issues when almost anyone I group with has voiced the same complaint where they cannot get any viable XP parties when the LFMs are over-run with zergmuffins and loot-wh0r3z at max level.
And any Guild I know of worth being in are made of the people that are causing this insanity in the first place.

If anyone has anything worthwhile to add, up to and including agreement with the OP, then feel free to post.
All the rest of you can take your elite DDO skills of awesomeness and maybe get a job?

Dude, if you can't take criticism, don't post on the forums. We're not entitled to agree and sympathize with you and stroke your ego.

I already explained that my intentions in posting here weren't malicious. I don't know if I'm still lumped in the "haters", but whatever, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I tried to help, but somehow I don't think you're willing to take the advice because you still don't think the problem might lie with you. O well.

[Maxwell1380]

And any Guild I know of worth being in are made of the people that are causing this insanity in the first place.

You clearly aren't familiar with many guilds on Sarlona if that's what you believe. There are many of them out there started by vets for newer players, casual players, role players, and yes Elite players. Do your research, ask around and find a guild would be my advice.

Just one more tip...lose the attitude and you may find more people willing to run with you, and perhaps you will find the right guild that would be willing to accept you.

[Arlith]

And I 'do' mind the XP hits. I have to squeek my way from 14-17 over weeks and weeks of pitiful XP because no one can get groups for serious stuff. I've joined a dozen groups trying to do Reaver's Refuge, Vale Walk-ups and so on for XP and people just are not joining.

So I, and a few guildies, want to run level 20's through the shroud to craft, because it has taken us from level 14 to level 20 to find all the **** scales/shards we need (but that's another story), and we are supposed to not run it because you will get upset at the LFM? I think not.

If I level 13 is running an LFM for a level 12 quest and asking for 14's and up, do you really want to be in that group? I think not.

The problem is not the LFM's, it is not the level 17's running the shroud. There are one of two possible problems:

1. No one in your level is running the shroud. Sorry.

2. There are people in your level runnin the shroud, they just aren't letting you in on it.

[Lyniaer]

Biching and moaning is what I do best.

And, yes, everyone who posts 'should' agree. Otherwise we end up with a thread like this. Derp-a-derp.

You guys make it sound like I had one bad day of not leveling. It's been over two months.
Also; it's not that people are not letting me in, I'm opting not to join because I don't want to gather sigils in the Necro from 12-16 level quests with level 20's.

I'll explain my position again:
Higher levels dominating the LFMs doing low level quests.
Not just today or yesterday but for months.
Other players are experiencing the same let down.
14-16 have become sinkhole levels much like 9 and 12 were before Mod9 if you didn't plan your strokes through GH properly.
No one said anything about max levs not being able to do what they want to do. In fact, it's people 'within' the level range of the quest that are getting people above and beyond their own level just to 'complete'.
One more time: it's been going on for months.

All I asked was to find out if something was going on outside of my knowledge that people were burning through these quests with higher levels. Are the missions getting too hard or something? This why Shroud rarely gets run on Elite? It's too hard?
Lv 16 you're basically stuck doing Vale and Reaver's Refuge. When the quest is 15 and people are doing them 15-20 or what-not for gems or sigils or whatever...no one can get any XP. And very few WANT to do them for anything more than getting these items or for flagging a raid.

You can't tell me I'm wrong. That's like ya'll telling me what kind of bed I sleep on. You don't know; so don't comment. Most of all; for crying out loud, why are so many of you taking this personal? Did I point out any one guild or any one person SPECIFICALLY? I don't think so. Why are we being so defensive and attacking the OP? That's just childish.
"Constructive" opinions only. I can't make a point if you kids keep kicking down my sand castle.

[Sir_Chonas]

People run the shroud for 3 reasons.

1. Fun: the quest has puzzles, difficult bosses, teamwork, magnificent prizes, and can be a sought after challenge if done at level (or on elite).
2. Crafting/Ingredients: Making GS live up to their potential.
3. Completions: *see magnificent prizes above.

Looking at these three reasons (which are by far not in order of which is the reason most people do it), how many do you think would best be completed by level 14-16's? #1. The other 2 are done more quickly by having higher level people. #2 is the most prevalent reason to run the shroud, and is the one that benefits the most from a group of all 20s, or as high as people can be. Therefore it follows that people who are running the shroud for ingredients (most) would want to finish most quickly (higher levels make faster completions).

I apologize for the way things are and that humans like being efficient as possible in an endeavor that can only be seen as a necessary evil to most.

[Nott]

From the beginning, you have to take raids off the table. Raids are not run for XP the majority of the time, so if you're going to "build your sand castle", don't set out to do it with flour, or it won't get kicked down, it will get blown away in the smallest breeze.

Now, I'm not saying you will never run a raid for XP; we both know that it's possible. I'm saying it's not too likely. Why do people want level 20's in their raid? Because they aren't running the raid for the XP and they're not running it for the scenery. They're running it for the loot, and generically speaking, the best chance of reaching that goal in the shortest time possible is to fill the raid with the highest levels available. (You use Shroud in your example while you're level 14. For what its worth -- and I don't expect it to be worth too much to you -- I won't even request to join a Shroud pug if a level 14 is in there unless I know you: you're too much of a liability. You know how awesome you play your class, and because of that you know you're far from a liability, self-sufficient, etc., but as I said, I don't know you and so while you might be Captain Awesome, I can only tell your level and name, and if I don't know your name, at level 14 in the Shroud you look very similar to Private Piker.)

With respect to other quests, when you're at level for them, I understand that when you see groups of higher level being solicited, even by someone of your level, that this is a non-xp opportunity for you, and unless you can find xp opportunities you're going to get frustrated -- anyone would. And, yes, DDO has levels that are in a "dead zone" with regards to finding good xp groups -- too low for the higher levels and too high for those quests that give out excessive xp... with each level increase, the dead zone has shifted higher, and it seems you're on it now, and that sucks for you.

My current primary character is a level 13 TR. You didn't say if you were a TR or not, so forgive me if I assume wrong, but I assume you're not. You think your xp is difficult to get now? Imagine how difficult it might be for me. But -- it's not... I don't have a problem finding reasonable xp groups. Nothing special about me that makes this so... maybe its the server (Khyber) or the times of day I play (weekend daytime mostly). I do play a healing-specced FvS, and there's a good argument to be made that this makes it easier to find a group, but for every group of 6 people I join, 5 of them aren't primary healing classes, so the groups are out there. I'm in a guild but often I'm grouping with people I've never met before too.

I hope your luck at finding a group improves. If it doesn't, and since it's probably not practical for you to change your playtimes, I hope you're financially able to change your server. You might create level 1 characters on each and look at the LFM's during the times you play before deciding on a server, or you might post in the server-specific forums to see if any guilds matching your playstyle / playtimes are recruiting. Being in a guild, even a small one, can make a big difference.

[DANTEIL]

So I recently reached Lvl 16 and I've noticed some of what the OP is talking about -- but I do understand the reasons for it and so I'm not really here to complain.

But, I've also recently gotten flagged for the Shroud, and would like to run it for the first time, primarily for this:

1. Fun: the quest has puzzles, difficult bosses, teamwork, magnificent prizes, and can be a sought after challenge if done at level (or on elite).

I don't care *so much* about XP (I'm not in a mad rush to level up) but I do care about getting something (hopefully enjoyment/accomplishment) out of the experience. But- many of the LFMs are indeed for ingredients/crafting/ddoor etc etc. even when they *are* in my level range (and often they're not). I've been avoiding those because I know that the experience is likely to not really be what I want. So, do people ever just run the Shroud, y'know, just to run it? And if so, what does the LFM look like?

[Sir_Chonas]

Dant, to have fun I recommend you create a group with your level range (15-18 probably for no xp hit) and put in the LFM "First Time." Most people will respect your wish, one person may join to help lead and inform you of the situations as they arise (you'll probably want one).

May I recommend at least 1 caster with wail of the banshee, at least 2 healers, and a bard. Try to minimize rogues (though one is nice for part 3) because backstab and sneak attack damage don't work where you need damage the most.

[Lyniaer]

Here. This is live, right now.

Inferno. Level 14. Range? 14-17.
Against the Demon Queen. Level 12. Range? 15-20!
VoN5-6. Level 10. Range? 10-15!
Enemy Within. Level 11. Range? 11-14!
HIPS: 11-15. The quest is level fking 10! Even on Elite that's overkill!

[Lleren]

Here. This is live, right now.

Inferno. Level 14. Range? 14-17.
Against the Demon Queen. Level 12. Range? 15-20!
VoN5-6. Level 10. Range? 10-15!
Enemy Within. Level 11. Range? 11-14!
HIPS: 11-15. The quest is level fking 10! Even on Elite that's overkill!

I note you didn't specify the level of the person startign the groups...
default setting is 2 above 2 below which can account for most of that.

No penalty for running quests at level or 1 level above. 10% penalty for being 2 levels over the quest.
Hard bumps quest level by 1
elite bumps quest level by 2

I think you are taking this to hard, and personal.

[Lyniaer]

I think you are taking this to hard, and personal.

Surrre. Nevermind, people. No one wants to take this literally. Everything's a joke.

[Garbudo]

Ahem if I may 17-20 because a 17 takes no xp penalty for most of those quests in those areas

[infernalmagiks]

Well it seems a lot of people are reading this.

Today on Argo I've seen a whole bunch of Shroud LFMs up at 14-18. That's about "a whole bunch" more than usual. The normal 17-20 groups I see? Just one.

Could be I'm just missing them but the lower level groups have definitely increased.

[rest]

So glad everyone could do exactly as I predicted and start in with the name-calling and the put-downs and the High School maturity. Must make these persons feel good or something. Glad they're not having any issues when almost anyone I group with has voiced the same complaint where they cannot get any viable XP parties when the LFMs are over-run with zergmuffins and loot-wh0r3z at max level.
And any Guild I know of worth being in are made of the people that are causing this insanity in the first place.

If anyone has anything worthwhile to add, up to and including agreement with the OP, then feel free to post.
All the rest of you can take your elite DDO skills of awesomeness and maybe get a job?

Pi$$ off I was commiserating with you and you get all whiney. I hope you languish at level 16 forever and rage-quit.

[Shassa]

So glad everyone could do exactly as I predicted and start in with the name-calling and the put-downs and the High School maturity.

If you knew this would be the result, you shouldn't have created this thread to begin with.

[Strakeln]

You think leveling up is hard, try piking up. You just can't form a group when you're trying to properly pike, so that option is right out.

Man, the piking scene has been rough lately.

[broolthebeast]

You think leveling up is hard, try piking up. You just can't form a group when you're trying to properly pike, so that option is right out.

Man, the piking scene has been rough lately.

speaking of, we are ready for you to pike our abbot raids :D

[Shassa]

You think leveling up is hard, try piking up. You just can't form a group when you're trying to properly pike, so that option is right out.

Man, the piking scene has been rough lately.

Let someone else find a place to pike.
Then you pike their pike.
All that's left is to train your cat to type "lol" for you every once in a while.

[Lleren]

Surrre. Nevermind, people. No one wants to take this literally. Everything's a joke.

No responce to the rest of the post I see.
I took it quite literally, looked at the groups you posted.
And provided some possible explanations.
Several others in this same thread have also posted possible explantions for the scenarios you describe.

[Strakeln]

speaking of, we are ready for you to pike our abbot raids :D

Sweet! I'll have my people contact your people, we'll do lunch!

[DasLurch]

I'm on Sarlona

Well there's the problem... (j/k)

Its happening a bit all over. The reason being that players are advancing very quickly through levels. It becomes very hard to find level specific groups because of this. Thus the generic 17-20 request. It has trended away somewhat in guild groups of late though. this is due to the mass True Reincarnates running around and scaping every last XP they can.

[Yagi]

I got told today that I could only join a lvl 17-20 shroud as a lvl 16 if I had a tier3 weapon. I wonder what happens at level 17 that its so great that it is an acceptable substitution to an upgrade of my weapon?
Or do we all get a bunch of large scales and some shards when we turn 17?
I was not aware that I was not supposed to be in a normal shroud at lvl 16 when I ran those other ones.
Why didnt anybody tell me?!

[Nott]

Surrre. Nevermind, people. No one wants to take this literally. Everything's a joke.I took you seriously, I crafted a well-formed post trying to offer you some reality outside of your own, and you simply ignored it.

You want people to take you seriously, and yet when someone offers a counter-opinion that you can't shoot down, you think you have the right to pretend it didn't happen? Do you fail to see the conflict here? It seems that you don't really care if you're taken seriously at all, that instead you want someone to hug you and tell you everything will be ok.

/hug. It will all be ok.

[Fattiest]

Virginia Tech? All I heard was:

Ok, i was gonna give good advice but after reading this post from the OP i realize that he’s hopeless and i refuse to read anymore. Some people are leaders some are followers and some are just lazy coattail riders……..take a wild guess whats going on here…..

Bottom line. Make your own grp in lev appropriate quest and xp is easy to come by

[Josh]

Don't tell other people how to play. Want a lower level group? Make your own.

Unless you are a dev and it's DA we're talking about...

[Maxwell1380]

Ok, i was gonna give good advice but after reading this post from the OP i realize that he’s hopeless and i refuse to read anymore. Some people are leaders some are followers and some are just lazy coattail riders……..take a wild guess whats going on here…..

Bottom line. Make your own grp in lev appropriate quest and xp is easy to come by

Amen!!!!!!!

[broolthebeast]

Sweet! I'll have my people contact your people, we'll do lunch!

Only if it involves roasted halfling's. We'll just call it natural selection.

[Carat]

Unfortunately, with the abundance of quests and the XP granted, people are running far more quests by lvl 12-14 than we ever could back in the day (or we were capped at 10 and xp didn't count). Half the quests weren't even around.

I rolled up a new char for a guild and we were averaging 12-14 lvl by the time we quested out and landed in the GH. Although I agree a speed levelling - get your char to max as fast as possible will hit the GH at lvl 10, if this same guy/gal tried to run all the quests in some semblance of order, the XP just builds. We're just getting everyone shroud ready and the level range is now 15-19, depending upon the side quests done. Sure, we jumped to Reaver's Refuge and the quarter for a bunch, but by no means did we mean to underlevel avoid the challenge.

My one thing I have noticed that profoundly impacted this XP/lvl issue was the removal of the XP penalty on death. No matter how good you were/equipment/etc, you always died once in a while. At the higher levels, a penalty of 3-4K XP sucked out 50% of a quest's xp. Back when POP was new, you tried to finish at roughly 0 XP until we figured out the quest.

[Danmor]

One of my mid-level toons just hit lvl 16 yesterday. And yes, I also noticed that the LFMs have changed.

There are quite a few possible reasons. The toon I'm talking about is a FvS Melee build. I pretty much solo'ed and duo'ed my way up to lvl 16. Why did I do that? Because in most cases it's easier and faster to run a quest alone or with one decent player than trying to fill a LFM, explaining the quest and taking care of the players that don't know the quest.
If I feel like flower sniffing, I'll put up a LFM. If I feel like getting up to the 17-20 LFMs, then I don't. There's loads of xp around at that lvl. Just do some slayers in Desert, Vale, Orchard, GH as well as the walk-ups/flagging quests there. Many of them are easily soloable at one or two levels above quest level.

As to the raids: a couple of people already posted possible explanations. I'll reiterate them again:
I need loads of raid equipment to get my toons where I want them to be.
How do I get that raid equipment? By completing raids. The easiest and fastest way to complete any given raid (on non-epic) is to take lvl 17-20 or lvl 16-20 people and do it.
Unless I know the player, I don't join raids with lowbies either. Because they're a liability. They might be good, but more probably they're not contributing a lot. I want completions, not a slow, expensive crawl.

[Lyniaer]

Unless I know the player, I don't join raids with lowbies either. Because they're a liability. They might be good, but more probably they're not contributing a lot. I want completions, not a slow, expensive crawl.

That's the nonsense I'm talking about...and not talking about at the same time. Let me explain:
First off, if you're doing a level 12 quest at level 16 and a level 12 wants to join; that's hardly a liability. You're already power gaming the quest by being 4 levels over and a level 12 is right on the mark, so how are they gonna slow you down?
Second, Continuously doing >Level16 quests at <Level17 takes away from those that want some XP out of it. Shroud, for example, used to be 13-16 and it could be completed no problem and you stood to pull 18k out of it and losing only about 800-1000 XP per additional run. Now we're running it 17-20, farming, ingrediants, to hell with anyone who's actually using The Vale to level up. And now you're telling these people to "Go Do Something Else"? Who the f*ck died and made you King Nothing.

It's simply in bad taste to monopolize quests by defaulting-with-intent the "elite players suggested" level range. It's even worse when you look like a do*che on the forums by telling other players what 'they' need to do differently because you want to break the layout of the game.

[DankTallstag]

Tons of "l33ts" in this game who cant handle any sort of real challenge. Only advice I can provide is try to start your own groups. Every once in awhile you will luck up with like-minded people who are down for a challenge and dont freak out every time a death occurs.





I'm on Sarlona and I'm eager to know if this bullcrap is going down in other places as well.

I'm looking at LFMs right now for missions that are level 12, 14, 16... All with level range set to 17-20. Most of the difs are set to normal. For what complex reason would anyone need to do Zawabis Revenge with 17's-20's. I can understand getting flagged for Demon Queen, but, comon.

Vale Walk-Ups 17-20? ***.
Shroud 17-20? Can no one handle this 14-16 anymore? It's 18k XP for most first-timers, Wasted! And good luck getting a Shroud raid together if the level range is set to 14-16.
The Crucible 17-20? Comon. I've done Crucible on Elite with level ranges 8-11 before Mod9 cut access to Gianthold until Lv10.
GH-Walkups, period. 15+ level range. Really?
Vault of Night! Vault of Night! 1-4! 15-20! NORMAL!

I can come to grips with doing these things on Elite for favor at higher levels. But there's literally dozens of LFMs, every day, undercutting those that need XP, running these quests constantly for some Sigil or Puzzle Piece or Ingredient for Green Steel... It's getting out of hand and it's take some people way to long to pass from 14-17.

It has to stop. The level ranges have to come down. Too many people farming with their 20's for bull ****. Actually, I can't complain about that. I have no right to tell people what to do with their characters.
But, I can still ask..no..beseech! to lower the ranges to their appropriate ranges. If you're 17 doing a 15 mission, don't fkin' set the range to 17-20. Set it to 15-17 so everyone can win; not just you.

Now; let the flaming and the yelling and the calling me an a$$hole begin...because no one on the forums is allowed to make an observation, statement or request. -.-

[DankTallstag]

Just ignore them brother. This game is full of such people, the longer you play, the more you will realize. They have twisted logic and really they just enjoy arguing for the sake of it. I mean look at some of their post counts, this IS their life. Remind yourself that no matter what they think, at least you have a real life outside of this game. People like us play the game for a portion of their free time. THEY actually log out of the game and STILL spend HOURS thinking about it. LOL...I mean how can you even truly get angry at them? I seriously pity them. They are like small children haha.



That's the nonsense I'm talking about...and not talking about at the same time. Let me explain:
First off, if you're doing a level 12 quest at level 16 and a level 12 wants to join; that's hardly a liability. You're already power gaming the quest by being 4 levels over and a level 12 is right on the mark, so how are they gonna slow you down?
Second, Continuously doing >Level16 quests at <Level17 takes away from those that want some XP out of it. Shroud, for example, used to be 13-16 and it could be completed no problem and you stood to pull 18k out of it and losing only about 800-1000 XP per additional run. Now we're running it 17-20, farming, ingrediants, to hell with anyone who's actually using The Vale to level up. And now you're telling these people to "Go Do Something Else"? Who the f*ck died and made you King Nothing.

It's simply in bad taste to monopolize quests by defaulting-with-intent the "elite players suggested" level range. It's even worse when you look like a do*che on the forums by telling other players what 'they' need to do differently because you want to break the layout of the game.

[Hendrik]

Well OP, after reading your posts and how you respond to people, I can understand why you are having issues getting into groups.



Enjoy your time in DDO.

[knightgf]

I'm on Sarlona and I'm eager to know if this bullcrap is going down in other places as well.

I'm looking at LFMs right now for missions that are level 12, 14, 16... All with level range set to 17-20. Most of the difs are set to normal. For what complex reason would anyone need to do Zawabis Revenge with 17's-20's. I can understand getting flagged for Demon Queen, but, comon.

Vale Walk-Ups 17-20? ***.
Shroud 17-20? Can no one handle this 14-16 anymore? It's 18k XP for most first-timers, Wasted! And good luck getting a Shroud raid together if the level range is set to 14-16.
The Crucible 17-20? Comon. I've done Crucible on Elite with level ranges 8-11 before Mod9 cut access to Gianthold until Lv10.
GH-Walkups, period. 15+ level range. Really?
Vault of Night! Vault of Night! 1-4! 15-20! NORMAL!

I can come to grips with doing these things on Elite for favor at higher levels. But there's literally dozens of LFMs, every day, undercutting those that need XP, running these quests constantly for some Sigil or Puzzle Piece or Ingredient for Green Steel... It's getting out of hand and it's take some people way to long to pass from 14-17.

It has to stop. The level ranges have to come down. Too many people farming with their 20's for bull ****. Actually, I can't complain about that. I have no right to tell people what to do with their characters.
But, I can still ask..no..beseech! to lower the ranges to their appropriate ranges. If you're 17 doing a 15 mission, don't fkin' set the range to 17-20. Set it to 15-17 so everyone can win; not just you.

Now; let the flaming and the yelling and the calling me an a$$hole begin...because no one on the forums is allowed to make an observation, statement or request. -.-

Prove what you said about the quests being successfully done in the level ranges you specified and perhaps I'll be happy...

[redspecter23]

To the OP. How many posts will it take before you can possibly believe that the problem lies with you and not the rest of the community? If I had 50ish posts of people telling me I might be the cause of my own problems, I'd likely look into that.

[Lyniaer]

To the OP. How many posts will it take before you can possibly believe that the problem lies with you and not the rest of the community? If I had 50ish posts of people telling me I might be the cause of my own problems, I'd likely look into that.

Yes. It's my fault that a great number of players are too terrified to run shroud at 13-16 anymore. It's my fault that those yelling at me on these forums are too ignorant to notice anything other than me complaining. It's my fault that when ANYONE puts up an LFM for to do a quest level-appropriately that no one joins because they're scared that it might have a chance to fail. It's MY fault that too many are so coddled by the challenges this game poses that too few are willing to take risks for the real EXP.

To everyone who has posted some kind of ******** and out-of-line comment in this thread, you need a very painful reality check. One that involves the realization that you're not in charge of me or this game and that you're probably among those that are robbing the EXP from those of us that need it just so you can loot faster.

Nothing you nay-sayers can post will obfuscate the fact that there's a slight bit of a problem here and if Turbine is going to restrict access to certain areas below a certain level, they need to restrict access to certain areas or certain difficulties 'above' a certain level (Elite open for all for favor purposes). Dungeon Alert is obviously not cutting down on the zerg-for-loot issue.

Discuss this issue for what it is and if you have no idea what I'm talking about or why, you're probably causing it and you shouldn't be posting here because no one needs help reinforcing the fact that you're a moron.

[suitepotato]

Not everyone is a leader or a master of every quest with everything down. Some, most in fact, are going to tag along and play their part. So for those telling the OP to make a party, the OP should not have to all the time with the server populations being what they are. The OP IS in fact correct. I've been seeing the same thing on Ghallanda. A huge number of 17-20 groups and very little else just beneath.

I think a lot of people are tired of expending gold and effort on quests that just keep getting harder than they used to be when they first did them because Turbine keeps nerfing whatever works for a while. DA at Coal Chamber has boned the usual tactic of keeping moving. The stealth option at Running Devils was taken away. Etc., etc., etc. The Shroud bug fix was delayed there long enough for a lot of people to get to taking the indifferent flaming chicken for granted.

Also, once people get to level 20, there's not much interest in making new toons and going through the process of facing the nerfs and changes along the way. Why bother with the headache and boredom? The devs could have made quests endlessly variable a long time ago and chose to concentrate on making each one solvable one way only.

Imagine a world where you had to struggle to reach adulthood and moderate success with a house and car and family... Would you go back and do it all over again knowing that there was a guarantee of not being able to change a single Planck moment? That it would be exactly as it was before and not one bit different?

Why bother?

This getting to 20 and staying there phenomenon is going to get worse. I've got plenty of alts but they were built before a lot of changes made them in bad need of overhaul, so reaching 20 now is not so easy with them to get TR. Oh wait, they messed up TR and had to kill it. So, why bother?

[Frodo_Lives]

As much as I hate to admit it I agree with the OP on one point. Trying to do a raid at level 15 or 16 is a complete waste of time now if you are interested in XP.

Hell even the Reaver's Fate, which is pretty simple even for a regular quest much less a raid, is dominated by level 17 - 20. Shroud, Hound, and others are the same.

I don't think that you need to bring your level 13s into a Reaver or Shroud but it has gotten worse where you might as well forget about using these raids for xp at 15 or 16 cause it's not going to happen. Even regular quests in the Vale and GH are getting more LFMs with higher levels rather than the proper ones.

It's a little stupid, but it happens every time the cap goes up.

[Heffty_Smurf]

As much as I hate to admit it I agree with the OP on one point. Trying to do a raid at level 15 or 16 is a complete waste of time now if you are interested in XP.


suitepotato; "Not everyone is a leader or a master of every quest with everything down. Some, most in fact, are going to tag along and play their part. So for those telling the OP to make a party, the OP should not have to all the time with the server populations being what they are. The OP IS in fact correct. I've been seeing the same thing on Ghallanda. A huge number of 17-20 groups and very little else just beneath."


These 2 quotes make me laugh. there a several options that the op has......

1) They can avoid doing the quests that he/she would like to do and do said quests at a later level with the people he is complaining about. I probably wouldnt love this option myself because I like to do quests when I can maximize my xp

2) They can come on the forums and cry about not being getting in the quests that he wants to do because nobody is running that level.This makes no sense to me, I think somebody needs to put on their big boy pants and find the solution to their own problems without stomping their feet and pointing fingers while they blame others for not doing what they want

3) They could easily post a message on their home servers message board and set up a time to put something together Here he would not have to lead it but put it together and explain that he doesnt have the knowledge or experience to lead it and defer to someone who does

4) He could take the bull by the horns and realize that yes there are leaders and followers in this game as in RL, however if he isnt having fun then taking a chance to learn and lead is what most of the better players in this game have done.If you are unwilling to make it happen do you really think you should blame others? lol come on

5) Join or start a guild.simply, find or start a guild that works together and is motivated to help one another

The bottom line is this: if you arent happy do something about it, but you be the one to do it. If you are so unhappy quit and find another game where they hold hand and the whole server worries about if each individual is at the right level to do things with. The people who are running quests higher than your level owe you nothing if you dont like it its up to u and too bad for you if you were looking for sympathy here.

[Lyniaer]

Somewhere along the line someone assumed I didn't want to lead a quest. This is incorrect and most likely facilitated by the lack of respect being shown here for a simple statement. Besides, it seems that this entire thread is evenly split in two completely different directions. One half sides with me and the other half wants to call me names and talk all kinds of smack as if the EASY solutions (like making ones own party) were not tried first.

The fact of the matter is, and I've said this twice before and I suppose I'll say it again for the ones slower in the head but fast at the mouth:
These 17-20 groups blasting through a good number of these quests are only interested in Loot or Ingredients or Fast Cash. These quests are being looked over as far as XP goes and people only want to run them for their Loot content.
Putting up LFM's to run them for XP leads to nowhere. Setting Shroud for 15-18 gets ignored because of the odd possibility of failure. Setting AtDQ for XP doesn't happen, either. Even GiantHold is being over-run at 15-18 (It's a level 10-15 area far as I'm concerned). It's turning out that the best method of getting from 15-17 is to do Slayers/Explorers in Orchard or Vale...which can take a very long time.

It 'is' a problem and it's being posted on the forums because it's breaking the game to a degree. If you're perfectly happy with every bit of DDO, then don't troll through here telling us to go play another game.

[Xithos]

Form your own group.

[Valezra]

Wow... I mean just wow... it is THEIR LFM's, they can make it whatever they want.

Did you know that on the same window that shows other people's LFMs there is a button labeled "Create Party" which enables you to recruit people for whatever quest you desire at whatever level range you set? neat!

Val

[Valezra]

Somewhere along the line someone assumed I didn't want to lead a quest. This is incorrect and most likely facilitated by the lack of respect being shown here for a simple statement. Besides, it seems that this entire thread is evenly split in two completely different directions. One half sides with me and the other half wants to call me names and talk all kinds of smack as if the EASY solutions (like making ones own party) were not tried first.

The fact of the matter is, and I've said this twice before and I suppose I'll say it again for the ones slower in the head but fast at the mouth:
These 17-20 groups blasting through a good number of these quests are only interested in Loot or Ingredients or Fast Cash. These quests are being looked over as far as XP goes and people only want to run them for their Loot content.
Putting up LFM's to run them for XP leads to nowhere. Setting Shroud for 15-18 gets ignored because of the odd possibility of failure. Setting AtDQ for XP doesn't happen, either. Even GiantHold is being over-run at 15-18 (It's a level 10-15 area far as I'm concerned). It's turning out that the best method of getting from 15-17 is to do Slayers/Explorers in Orchard or Vale...which can take a very long time.

It 'is' a problem and it's being posted on the forums because it's breaking the game to a degree. If you're perfectly happy with every bit of DDO, then don't troll through here telling us to go play another game.


I've had no problems filling groups for quests at level. If your LFM's "lead to nowhere" it may be because you have a terrible reputation on your server and people don't want to join you. I'm not making that accusation but just throwing out the possibility.

Val

[Lleren]

Somewhere along the line someone assumed I didn't want to lead a quest. This is incorrect and most likely facilitated by the lack of respect being shown here for a simple statement. Besides, it seems that this entire thread is evenly split in two completely different directions. One half sides with me and the other half wants to call me names and talk all kinds of smack as if the EASY solutions (like making ones own party) were not tried first.

The fact of the matter is, and I've said this twice before and I suppose I'll say it again for the ones slower in the head but fast at the mouth:
These 17-20 groups blasting through a good number of these quests are only interested in Loot or Ingredients or Fast Cash. These quests are being looked over as far as XP goes and people only want to run them for their Loot content.
Putting up LFM's to run them for XP leads to nowhere. Setting Shroud for 15-18 gets ignored because of the odd possibility of failure. Setting AtDQ for XP doesn't happen, either. Even GiantHold is being over-run at 15-18 (It's a level 10-15 area far as I'm concerned). It's turning out that the best method of getting from 15-17 is to do Slayers/Explorers in Orchard or Vale...which can take a very long time.

It 'is' a problem and it's being posted on the forums because it's breaking the game to a degree. If you're perfectly happy with every bit of DDO, then don't troll through here telling us to go play another game.

The main thing I have seen from you in your posts, is ignoring any responce from folks asking questions and trying for discussion, and general insults about player abilility. I think you have some bad assumptions.

Gianthold for example, the quests there are listed as level 13 and 14, doing those quests on elite make them a level 15 or 16 quest. I understand that there used to be bonus experience for completeing quests under level, this no longer the case. This would make Gianthold a an area for level 13 to 17 experience, up to level 18 if the player is willing to accept a 10% penalty on experience earned. Why should anyone that has most or all of the packs bother hitting Gianthold before those levels in todays game?

The same change in experience gaining rules changed Vale to a level 16 to 19 experience gaining area. This is not last years DDO, change happens. Experience gaining tactics adapt to compensate for the change in rules.

[Frodo_Lives]

Somewhere along the line someone assumed I didn't want to lead a quest. This is incorrect and most likely facilitated by the lack of respect being shown here for a simple statement. Besides, it seems that this entire thread is evenly split in two completely different directions. One half sides with me and the other half wants to call me names and talk all kinds of smack as if the EASY solutions (like making ones own party) were not tried first.

To be fair, just because I agree that running raids at level is becoming harder doesn't mean I agree with the tone or style of your posts. For the most part they are rather insulting to those that disagree with you and filled with name calling and other such trash.


The fact of the matter is, and I've said this twice before and I suppose I'll say it again for the ones slower in the head but fast at the mouth:
These 17-20 groups blasting through a good number of these quests are only interested in Loot or Ingredients or Fast Cash.

See? With posts that read like this you shouldn't wonder why people are so quick to jump on you, even if they (partially) agree with what you are saying.


These quests are being looked over as far as XP goes and people only want to run them for their Loot content.
Putting up LFM's to run them for XP leads to nowhere. Setting Shroud for 15-18 gets ignored because of the odd possibility of failure. Setting AtDQ for XP doesn't happen, either. Even GiantHold is being over-run at 15-18 (It's a level 10-15 area far as I'm concerned). It's turning out that the best method of getting from 15-17 is to do Slayers/Explorers in Orchard or Vale...which can take a very long time.

Even way back when, I rarely entered Gainthold before level 12, now I usually wait until 13. Most of the time if level 10s were running GH quests they were a waste of a spot and a drag on a party unless they were very good players. Still joining a Reavers raid used to be pretty common at level 14 and was a good way to get xp. Now most of those raids are being advertised as 17+, or even if you get in your xp is cut in half due to power leveling. To me it has enlarged the slow period for leveling from 10 - 12 by another level or two and made it a longer wait to get to do those raids.


It 'is' a problem and it's being posted on the forums because it's breaking the game to a degree. If you're perfectly happy with every bit of DDO, then don't troll through here telling us to go play another game.

It is an annoyance, it certianly isn't a game breaking problem. Like every time the level cap goes up people find ways to adjust their leveling patterns.

Yes as other people have said you can (and I can) start a group with a level range that you (or I) want. But it does take longer to fill and is more of a pain in the rear.

[Frodo_Lives]

As for the start your own group, I do agree that it can be done. But it will take longer, it will be harder to fill, and you have a greater possiblility of failure.

Simply because when the cap was 16 you had all the experienced players who have run these raids before sitting at 16 which was where you want to run the same raids now (i.e. Reaver, Hound, Shroud).

However all those experienced level 16s are now level 20 and the only characters who are at 16 are the ones currently leveling. Hence the much smaller pool of characters to draw from to fill your raid. There is also a much greater chance of filling your raid with players completely new to the raid as you are not drawing on experienced players capped characters.

It is more difficult to fill a PuG raid and have a reasonable chance for success then it was when the cap was 16, it is certainly not impossible, but much harder. It shouldn't be a surprise though, it's the way things work every time the cap goes up. As long as lower level quests have something worth running for capped characters will run them and it becomes somewhat end game content regardless of level or difficulty.

[GreenGurgler]

Just ignore them brother. This game is full of such people, the longer you play, the more you will realize. They have twisted logic and really they just enjoy arguing for the sake of it. I mean look at some of their post counts, this IS their life. Remind yourself that no matter what they think, at least you have a real life outside of this game. People like us play the game for a portion of their free time. THEY actually log out of the game and STILL spend HOURS thinking about it. LOL...I mean how can you even truly get angry at them? I seriously pity them. They are like small children haha.

LOL!!!

You are the Amazing Kreskin!! You know all about all!!

Quite preaching like such a sanctimonious a$$hat. You know nothing about the people you speak, including the fellow you are trying to agree with.

Go ahead and make any prediction you like about me, you will be wrong and never can/will know the truth.

But I suspect you really don't care as you are right in your own mind.

Isn't your sub up yet?

[Aristalla]

Biching and moaning is what I do best.

And, yes, everyone who posts 'should' agree. Otherwise we end up with a thread like this. Derp-a-derp.



And this pretty much sums up this entire thread. I was almost, kind of, maybe, going to sympathize with you a little. But then you kept talking.

[Caden_the_Dictator]

People don't join your lfm's because you whine too much and are an inefficient player. Saying your wizard is stuck at 14 for months is like admitting you aren't smart enough to figure out your dilemna. You need to go level to 15. then 16. then 17. then 18. then 19. then 20. And if u can't do it alone, figure out a way to fill your own lfms.

[Sirea]

The main thing I have seen from you in your posts, is ignoring any responce from folks asking questions and trying for discussion, and general insults about player abilility. I think you have some bad assumptions.

Gianthold for example, the quests there are listed as level 13 and 14, doing those quests on elite make them a level 15 or 16 quest. I understand that there used to be bonus experience for completeing quests under level, this no longer the case. This would make Gianthold a an area for level 13 to 17 experience, up to level 18 if the player is willing to accept a 10% penalty on experience earned. Why should anyone that has most or all of the packs bother hitting Gianthold before those levels in todays game?

The same change in experience gaining rules changed Vale to a level 16 to 19 experience gaining area. This is not last years DDO, change happens. Experience gaining tactics adapt to compensate for the change in rules.

Agreed.

Having been playing a TR'ed character lately, I've been paying a lot more attention to quest levels to make sure I have enough XP at later levels. Level 16 and haven't touched the Vale yet, still have all that XP out there, in Reaver's Refuge, Amrath, and Inspired Quarter, not to mention slayer areas.

[Cyr]

People have tried.
If it was that simple I would be doing that instead of being angry.
And I've already said I'm not trying to tell people how to play. Try reading first before you go about with your hater posts.

As to what Oreg said; it's both. There's level 11's setting their LFM's far above their own level for, say, a level 14 quest. It's chaotic. CHAOS.

I'm on Sarlona also. I am running mostly in pugs on my second TR. I am finding groups or putting my own up. It's not impossible or even hard to do...you just have to do it. People can put up their own lfm's for whatever party composition they want. If they are farming vale ingredients on 20's well don't join with your level 16. OP what's your guild and what's your toons names?

[suitepotato]

People who are going on about 'make your own group' and 'you can't tell others what to do' are either being purposely obtuse, or are merely dim. Enough with the straw men.

NO ONE IS SAYING THEY DON'T WANT TO OR CAN'T MAKE GROUP, LEAST OF ALL THE OP.

NO ONE IS TELLING ANYONE HOW TO RUN THEIR GROUPS.

THEY ARE COMPLAINING THAT THIS PHENOMENON IS NOT A GOOD THING.

THEY ARE RIGHT.

What part of this is missing people? How much simpler could it be?

Looting IS pretty much the only thing being done by a gigantic number of people. Level cap, loot for gold and named items, lather, rinse, repeat.

People are running Eye of the Titan for that disgusting ear worm, they're farming the shroud for ingredients, they're running Shavarth quests to get boots ingredients so they can then run ToD for loot there.

If people were more inclined to play less for loot than for difficulty, they'd run everything elite, especially the nearly unbeatable and most painful quests like the Abbot and ToD. They only take the pain of epic not for the sake of saying they did epic, but for the epic loot.

The quests are predictable and getting more so. Turbine has a firm mindset of play one way, go one way, finish only one way. If you did that with a Choose Your Own Adventure book, kids would have exactly six pages to read and not a paperback.

Every quest should be auto difficulty leveling and adaptive to player levels. If a team of 16s goes into waterworks, they should get trogs, slimes, etc. in level and number that are commensurate. It's not hard to figure this out. The pnp days had lists of monsters to roll a die for random picking of. How hard is it to program the dungeons to randomly spawn things from a simple list?

I am not surprised there's a rush to cap and then loot. It's like running an obstacle course and getting to the other side. Why leave the finish line once you get there?

[Cyr]

Suite I call strawman right back. The OP has lots of grouping options on my home server of Sarlona. Looting always happened, but in no time in the games history have I seen so many leveling lfms. The OP whined about being stuck at level 14. They also did not mention that they were stuck on their 2nd+ TR, which indicates they are doing a first time level up. They could blindly pike on Sarlona and hit 20 pretty dang fast on a first time level up atm. In fact, there are quite a few people who are doing that and making it onto my do not group list in the process.

The OP is clearly complaining about looting and favor runs. They are clearly using this as the reason why they are stuck leveling. There is no new phenomena here. This is about as old a phenomena as DDO has. However, it is actually the least detrimental to leveling that it has ever been due to all the new players and TR's happening now.