Force spec

[joesynner]

Are the spells that involve force dmg worth a ****? I only ask because i never see anyone use them.

[rat-morningstar]

i use magic missile on everything my fireball can't kill/ doesn't have too much hp, and i'm thinking of dumping that one and taking force missiles


as far as i can tell, there isn't any foe (or, well, not many) that has force resistance, so it's a way to deal damage to pretty much everything, although the other elements do more damage


to be honest, i like using magic missiles/chain missiles, but most of the time there's at least one spell that does more (base) damage

[Red_Knight]

Magic missle/force missile are good for boss fights especially. It's a fast spell that WILL hit as long as your close enough and can see the enemy. And Force isn't one of the elements that Resist Energies and Protection from Energies can help against. Force spells also don't trigger the 'incorporeal' miss chance from spectres and wraiths. You just gotta not have people swinging non-ghost touch weapons at them while your targeting.

Granted, the damage for magic missile is rather anemic. It wont be your first choice of spell usually. For some enemies (old STK end boss for example, end boss of Stormcleave) Magic Missile is very good to have though. Especially if the party running Stormcleave didn't destroy all the elemental mobs in the final room first.

[Rusty_Can]

Are the spells that involve force dmg worth a ****? I only ask because i never see anyone use them.

Well,

- force spells don't allow any save;
- so far, only few mobs have resistance/immunity to force damage (golems do); OTOH, none is very vulnerable to them (i.e. you won't see purple damage, as it happens with Wall of Fire and many undead foes);
- enhancements affect force and repair spells, hence WF arcane casters are more likely to train them; however, keep in mind that there is no force-based PrE for sorcerers.

[Arctigis]

I'd recommend chain missiles at L3 once you replace acid blast and/or fireball. Chain missiles has splash damage
as well which can be useful.

[PSU93]

At this point in the game, no, force damage isn't worth a ****. MM and FM still have their place, especially at lower levels when mobs have fewer HP, but they will not be your primary damage-dealing spells once you pick up Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, etc.

In the future, something like a Wall of Force spell could be pretty neat and would give casters some other damage dealing options. But for now, elemental rules.

[SmiterOfFoes]

If I remember correctly, the clay golem in tear of dhakan was immune to the force effects of my handwraps. Would have to confirm though.

[Wimpanzee]

I wish we could get a magic blades spell or something that would make a force damage twirly blade similar to some of the floor traps you see, where it could be stationary or move around a bit.

Oh wait, that's for clerics and FvS.

[Arkat]

If I remember correctly, the clay golem in tear of dhakan was immune to the force effects of my handwraps. Would have to confirm though.

Golems are generally immune to ALL magic.

In D&D game mechanics, Iron Golems get healed by Fire spells, Flesh Golems get healed by Lightning spells, and Stone Golems get slowed by Lightning spells (gosh I hope I remembered that correctly). In D&D, there ARE some spells besides the two I just mentioned that will affect Golems. Those are spells that don't allow Spell Resistance rolls. Those are usually Conjuration spells which include the various Orb spells (Examples: Lesser Acid Orb, Fire Orb, etc.).

Since Force spells are neither Conjuration spells nor do they bypass Spell Resistance, Golems in DDO should be properly immune to them as well as the Force effects on weapons.

[fuzzy1guy]

IMHO Magic missile is always useful. Mostly for four reasons.

It's going to always do some dmg.
It's a real short cast time.
It's cheap on sp.
It never misses.

A good one to alternate with your primary damage spell on bosses. Cast your primary. Cast mm while the primary timer ticks down. Cast your primary again.

Mostly only applys to sorc tho. Lets you keep the damage going while your primary timers tick down.

[Red_Knight]

Golems are generally immune to ALL magic.

In D&D game mechanics, Iron Golems get healed by Fire spells, Flesh Golems get healed by Lightning spells, and Stone Golems get slowed by Lightning spells (gosh I hope I remembered that correctly). In D&D, there ARE some spells besides the two I just mentioned that will affect Golems. Those are spells that don't allow Spell Resistance rolls. Those are usually Conjuration spells which include the various Orb spells (Examples: Lesser Acid Orb, Fire Orb, etc.).

Since Force spells are neither Conjuration spells nor do they bypass Spell Resistance, Golems in DDO should be properly immune to them as well as the Force effects on weapons.

Except, in DDO spell resistance only applies to non-damaging spells. Every damage dealing spell ignores spell resistance. Magic Missile is one of the few spells which can hurt pretty much everything. It ignores damage reduction since it's magic, and doesn't count as an 'energy' spell. I've killed iron golems in DDO with fire spells too. In DDO a spell either does 0 damage due to the enemy being immune, or it does damage based on how much resistance to that energy type the enemy has.

EDIT: Oh and for clay golems, my monk does do damage with magic effects. Including the force damage from one of my special attacks.

[Baahb3]

I have a warforged battle mender as I call him (cleric for warforges) that has all the enhancements for repair/force and I can say with maximize on you can throw out some decent damage.

All of the spells are quick casts so if you chain cast Force Missile, Chain Missile, Magic Missile you can go right back to Force Missile without stopping to wait.

IIRC, at lvl 14 with maximize on, I am getting 3 Force Missiles that hit for around 100 each, Chain Missile hits the primary for around 80 and am getting 10-18 or so on all secondary missiles, MM does 5 shots for around 20.

I think they are effective you just have to treat Force like any other element, you need the enhancements, crit chance/multiplier, potency and Lore item to see them be effective.

The one draw back with them is that one first level spell (shield/night shield) renders all 3 of them obsolete.

[Arkat]

Except, in DDO spell resistance only applies to non-damaging spells. Every damage dealing spell ignores spell resistance. Magic Missile is one of the few spells which can hurt pretty much everything. It ignores damage reduction since it's magic, and doesn't count as an 'energy' spell. I've killed iron golems in DDO with fire spells too. In DDO a spell either does 0 damage due to the enemy being immune, or it does damage based on how much resistance to that energy type the enemy has.

EDIT: Oh and for clay golems, my monk does do damage with magic effects. Including the force damage from one of my special attacks.


Ooh...all good information. Thanks!

+1 Rep for you!

[FunkyGoose]

I think clay golems are immune to magic-based force damage (such as Migic Missile or the eldritch ritual), but not to non-magical forms, like the monks void strike (Monk and bard effects are considered non-magical for effects such as a beholders anti-magic sphere)

EDIT- Tested on my monk, Immune to my force burst w eldritch crit

[Red_Knight]

I think clay golems are immune to magic-based force damage (such as Migic Missile or the eldritch ritual), but not to non-magical forms, like the monks void strike (Monk and bard effects are considered non-magical for effects such as a beholders anti-magic sphere)

EDIT- Tested on my monk, Immune to my force burst w eldritch crit

That might just be because it's immune to crits. I've yet to get the 1d4 force damage on crit with anything immune to crits.

[LunaCee]

Also of note, Avatar of Jubilex down in The Pit is also immune to force damage.

[Happosaai]

Also of note, Avatar of Jubilex down in The Pit is also immune to force damage.

I was actually just told that Force was pretty much the only wiz/sorc spell type he was vulnerable to.

I know the Avatar heals from both Acid and Fire (The only damage spells I had up at the time)

[Red_Knight]

Slimes and oozes tend to take damage from force effects, unless it's 'crit' based. I have hurt Jubilex with magic missile before. Unless they changed his immunities.

[FunkyGoose]

That might just be because it's immune to crits. I've yet to get the 1d4 force damage on crit with anything immune to crits.

Force Burst w crit, thats 1d6 regular hit, and 1d10 + 1d4 on a crit, the 1d6 didnt occur, couldnt test the crit, immune

[vettkinn]

- so far, no mob has resistance/immunity to force damage; OTOH, none is very vulnerable to them (i.e. you won't see purple damage, as it happens with Wall of Fire and many undead foes);

Well, there's this crystal thingy in one of the quests in Sharn that is vulnerable to force damage (the one in the bank).

Does that count? :D

[Faelyndel]

Some excellent points have been raised in this thread. Force damage itself does have a time and place where it is effective, but may not be the most efficient to specialize in. However the nice thing is, you can spec part of the way and still specialize in other damage types too [such as Fire/Cold..]. Nothing prevents you from "dual-speccing" in these terms.

I think one reason why taking the Force/Repair specialty enhancement would be good isn't the bonus to Force damage, but to the Repair half. WF casters, or even fleshies who want to be a healer for the WF - perhaps they have WF friends - gain a nice bonus to the Repair line, while also boosting their Force damage.

[Daigaioh]

Well,

- force spells don't allow any save;
- so far, no mob has resistance/immunity to force damage; OTOH, none is very vulnerable to them (i.e. you won't see purple damage, as it happens with Wall of Fire and many undead foes);
- enhancements affect force and repair spells, hence WF arcane casters are more likely to train them; however, keep in mind that there is no force-based PrE for sorcerers.



Golems, iron and clay and Flesh.


things that Force works well on. Maraliths, Pit Fiends,all devils and demons. Mindsunder crystal, all Quiori(fyi glass works on them, Yah muckbane).

[Rusty_Can]

Golems

Yes, forgot about golems. OTOH, we are lucky that force spells don't repair them O_o