Malvian, TR - Kensai/Rogue

[Braegan]

Hey all. After kicking the idea around I finally went about TRing my old Ftr/Rog, Malvian. Brief history, Malvian (my fifth fighter in DDO) was rolled up shortly after Mod 3 release (DQ Raid) and has seen many nerfs/fixes. Based roughly around the popular (at the time) Batman build(s) and was originaly built to be 18 Ftr/ 2 Rog. However, skills were a big problem and I needed to take a 3rd level at 13 and a 4th at 20. Prior poor planning on my part along with many changes to the game since then (Monk wasn't even an option then and I wasn't sure how some things would be implemented for example) left me with a sub-par character that used to be my favorite.

Keeping with the concept of a "Batman" character (that wants to be able to do a few things well) but retains end-game viability I decided on:

Malvian, LN, Male
12 Fighter/7 Rogue/ 1 Monk


Stats

34 pt
Str: 16 (+5 levels, +3 class, +6 item, +3 tome, +3 exception (ToD ring), +8 Kensai, +2 rage, +4 double madstone) 50 :eek:
Dex: 14 (+6 item, +2 class, +1 race, +3 tome) 26
Con: 14 (+6 item, +1 race, +3 tome) 24
Int: 14 (+2 tome, +6 item {situational}) 16 {22}
Wis: 14 (+6 item, +2 tome) 22
Cha: 8 ( +2 tome, +6 item {situational}) 10 {16}

32 pt (no +3 tome needed for feats)
Str: 15
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

Simply swap Human Dex I for Human Str I and math remains even.

Hit Points

20 - Heroic
10 - Draconic
140 - Con
30 - GFL
45 - Greensteel
20 - Minos
120 - Ftr
42 - Rog
8 - Mnk
30 - Racial Toughness III
40 - Ftr Toughness IV
22- Toughness feat

527 Standing HP


Armor Class

10 - Base
8 - Dex
6 - Wis
8 - Armor Bracers
5 - Prot
1 - Ritual
4 - Insight
4 - Icy Dodge
3 - Chattering Ring
5 - CE
4 - Shield Wand
3 - Bark Pot
1 - Haste

62 Easy Self Buff

2 - Yug Pot (+2 Wis, +4 natural)

64

4 Uncanny dodge

68 Self Buffed, Clickie AC

1 - Ranger Barkskin
4 - Pally Aura
4 - Bard Song
2 - Recitation

75 Raid Buffed Sustained AC

79 Raid Buffed Clickie AC


Saves

Fort: 12 (base), 7 (stat), 5 (item), 4 (ghero), 2 (luck) ~ 30

Reflex: 11 (base), 8 (stat), 5 (item), 4 (ghero), 2 (luck) ~ 30

Will: 8 (base), 6 (stat), 5 (item), 4 (ghero), 2 (luck) ~ 25


Skills

Noteworthy investments:

Balance - 17
DD - 23
Hide - 4
Intim - 23
Jump - 5
MS - 4
OL - 23
Srch - 23
Spot - 4
Tumble - 4
UMD - 23

Intim

23 - ranks
15 - item
2 - luck
2 - past life feat
2 - enhancement
2 - kensai
3 - cha
4 - ghero
2 - song
6 - Greensteel

61 Intim


UMD

23 - Ranks
2 - luck
5 - 7 Fingered Gloves
6 - Greensteel
4 - ghero

40 UMD


Feats

Human) Toughness

Monk) Combat Expertise

1) Stunning Blow
3) Power Attack
6) TWF
9) Quickdraw
12) ITWF
15) GTWF
18) Ftr Past Life Feat

Ftr 1) Khopesh
F2) W. Focus: Slash
F4) W. Spec: Slash
F6) Imp Trip
F8) Imp Crit: Slash
F10) Gtr W. Focus: Slash
F12) Gtr W. Spec: Slash


Enhancements


Ftr Str III (12)
Rogue Dex II (6)
Human Adapt Con I (2)
Human Gtr Adapt Dex I (4)
Ftr Intim II (3)
Ftr Stunning Blow III (6)
Racial Toughness III (6)
Ftr Toughness IV (10)
Ftr Haste Boost IV (10)
Ftr Attack II (3)
Ftr Crit Accuracy II (3)
Kensai I (4)
Kensai Mastery I (1)
Kensai II (2)
Human Imp Recovery I (2)
Sneak Attack Training III (6)

80 points spent


Level Progression

Level 1) Rog
2-3) Ftr
4) Rog
5-7) Ftr
8) Rog
9) Mnk
10) Rog
11) Ftr
12) Rog
13-15) Ftr
16) Rog
17-19) Ftr
20) Rog

Gear Layout

Head: Minos/Intim +15
Neck: Con +6 (perhaps the Stalwart Neck for extra boosts)
Trinket: Bloodstone/Head of Good Fortune
Cloak: Min II, Hvy Fort, +5 Prot, +45 hp
Belt: Brute Str (+6 Str, GFL)
Gloves: Dex +6/7 Fingered Gloves
Ring 1: Wis +6 (until one of ToD rings that are +6 wis, +1 exceptional str)
Ring 2: Chattering/Cha +6
Boots: Delving (FoM), Innocent (+5 resist), Madstone, Anchoring (ToD), FF, Balance + 15
Bracers: Armor +8
Chest: Icy
Goggles: Tharnes/Greensteel +6 UMD


Tomes Usage for Feat Req.

Level 3) +1 Dex Tome
Level 7) +2 Int Tome
Level 11+) +3 Dex Tome


Thoughts/Critique are of course welcome.

[Hellmoob]

My main, Hellmoob, is (almost!) the exact same build as this. 12/7/1, except that he:

a) Is a Halfling
b) Doesn't really give a **** about AC

The extra human feat seems unnecessary. Halflings gain +ToHit while flanking, better saves, and sneak damage, which all makes for great synergy with a rogue build.

Personally, I'd drop CE for Skill Focus: UMD and either ICrit Pierce or Stunning Blow for lightning reflexes (compensate for your slightly gimped reflex save from all the fighter levels, I guarantee it will save you from a few mincings in Elite and Epic).

I would also not put ranks in Intimidate. As a 7 rogue build, the only way you're staying competitive with "pure" DPS builds is by NOT having the aggro. As soon as you negate your +30something from sneaks your damage eats the nerfbat majorly. Besides this, 7 rogue gives you subtle backstabbing 2, which helps ensure that you're getting in your sneaks.

An alternate build to consider (if you're willing to sacrifice UMD, some people are not) is 12FTR/6Barb/2ROG. With a 14 int it is possible to keep Search and DD (the two skills you absolutely MUST NOT suck at) max'd at every level, and end up with a maximised open lock and a respectable jump or balance skill. You lose 3 dice of sneak damage, but gain (potentially, depending upon how many APs you have floating free):

+2 base CON from Barb enhancements
+8 STR and +6 CON from rage/frenzy
+2d6 vicious damage on every swing from frenzy
+2 damage on power attacks (in exchange for -2 to-hit, which won't matter outside epic bosses)

[maddmatt70]

Nice build.. Any chance you can beef up your tactics? I see you have stunning blow, but it would be nice to beef up your stunning blow dc so these for sure land and set up your sneak damage.

[Braegan]

My main, Hellmoob, is (almost!) the exact same build as this. 12/7/1, except that he:

a) Is a Halfling
b) Doesn't really give a **** about AC

The extra human feat seems unnecessary. Halflings gain +ToHit while flanking, better saves, and sneak damage, which all makes for great synergy with a rogue build.

Halflings are a great race with many advantages. However, I went Human for: Intim (without -4 size difference), Bonus Feat, yes I could use another 1-3 even :) , Additional skills at creation and while leveling, Human Vers Enhancement, Human Adaptability, YMMV.

Personally, I'd drop CE for Skill Focus: UMD and either ICrit Pierce or Stunning Blow for lightning reflexes (compensate for your slightly gimped reflex save from all the fighter levels, I guarantee it will save you from a few mincings in Elite and Epic).

Skill Focus UMD? Really? I am hitting a 40 easy. 43 with Cha item, 48 boosted. That's more then I will need. Taking SF UMD seems superfluous. Stunning Blow has to stay, IC Pierce may become an option.

I would also not put ranks in Intimidate. As a 7 rogue build, the only way you're staying competitive with "pure" DPS builds is by NOT having the aggro. As soon as you negate your +30something from sneaks your damage eats the nerfbat majorly. Besides this, 7 rogue gives you subtle backstabbing 2, which helps ensure that you're getting in your sneaks.

Well I do want Intim. Not that I will be spamming it and turtling up...like ever. But it has it's uses and with the skill points to spend I couldn't see a reason to not have it as another facet to the character.

An alternate build to consider (if you're willing to sacrifice UMD, some people are not) is 12FTR/6Barb/2ROG. With a 14 int it is possible to keep Search and DD (the two skills you absolutely MUST NOT suck at) max'd at every level, and end up with a maximised open lock and a respectable jump or balance skill. You lose 3 dice of sneak damage, but gain (potentially, depending upon how many APs you have floating free):

That does look pretty cool. Although the close 2nd option to what I decided on was the 12 Ftr/6 Rgr/2 Rog Monster variety. While that version I planned had marginally higher str and dps vs FE, it was tighter on skills, too much for my taste.

+2 base CON from Barb enhancements
+8 STR and +6 CON from rage/frenzy
+2d6 vicious damage on every swing from frenzy
+2 damage on power attacks (in exchange for -2 to-hit, which won't matter outside epic bosses)

Thanks for your advice!

[Braegan]

Nice build.. Any chance you can beef up your tactics? I see you have stunning blow, but it would be nice to beef up your stunning blow dc so these for sure land and set up your sneak damage.

Thanks! I fleshed out the Enhancements a little to reflect some effort placed into tactics. I managed to sqeeze in Ftr Strat Stunning Blow III. Honestly, I was hoping to have a little more play in the Enhancement Dept but with the pre-reqs, stats, etc I ran out of points pretty quick :(

[Clay]

Nice.

Try dropping fighter toughness IV in favor of Sneak Train I and II--see how you like it.

The extra 6pts dmg/hit will do more than 10 HP, when you already have enough HP.

You don't really need to "max out" OL.

[MrCow]

I did this level split (12 fighter/7 rogue/1 monk) not too long ago on a reincarnate and for the most part it was quite smooth and potent. Granted, I had a few variations as my intent was quick leveling for another soon reincarnation and not with end-game goals in mind (thus I had a focus on rapiers, as I had a Radiance Rapier to my name, Past Life: Sneak of Shadows, and Bodyfeeder Rapiers negate a large amount of healing), but I'd imagine this will do quite well with an intimidation/khopesh focus.

As stated by other folks, DDO in its current state for locks does not require a maxed Open Locks skill (at 4 ranks and your likely listing of gear/buffs you should be rolling between 41-60, 47-66 if you are in Lesser Wind Stance and use Human Versatility V).


Ftr Attack III (6)
Ftr Crit Accuracy III (6)

Kensai II only requires Fighter Attack Boost II and Fighter Critical Accuracy II, thus you can quite easily cut back here and net 6 AP if you desire.

[Braegan]

Kensai II only requires Fighter Attack Boost II and Fighter Critical Accuracy II, thus you can quite easily cut back here and net 6 AP if you desire.


Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I was referring to the Kensai Official Discussion Thread and that must have out-dated information. Now I can take Clay's advice and keep my HP :D

[Jhaeran]

resurrecting an old thread - how'd this work out for you? Like to go similar but THF and not getting a lot of feedback.

[Braegan]

resurrecting an old thread - how'd this work out for you? Like to go similar but THF and not getting a lot of feedback.

Not well, to be honest.

Leveling up and most content prior to Epics, ToD, some Elites was a breeze. However, getting to that end-game point the HP & DPS traded for evasion, trap skills and tricks wasn't a good trade off. But, that's the nature of things. You can do one thing really well, maybe balance two things, but once you try and juggle a bunch of different things you wind up being able to do a bunch of things ok, but nothing well.

Malvian now is an 18 Ftr/2 Pal.

I never edit'd OP because the build is ok and some folks might enjoy it. But as an end-game player/min-maxer I prefer the current version of heavy deeps vs utility.