Simple Dev Question RE:Whail of the Banshee

[Battleworm]

Why does it work on earth and fire ellies but not on Air ellies?

[Visty]

because implosion doesnt work on air ellys either

[Battleworm]

I know I would like to know the nonsense behind it.Unless i missed a memo,an elemental is an elemental,no reason for one type to be completely immune.

[IanW09]

I know I would like to know the nonsense behind it.Unless i missed a memo,an elemental is an elemental,no reason for one type to be completely immune.

Yep, you missed a memo.

Air elementals come from the plane of air. Dont expect airy affects, like noise, to affect them.

Fire elementals come from the plane of fire. Dont expect fiery effects, like fireballs, to affect them.

And so on.

[Cedwin]

Air elementals come from the plane of air. Dont expect airy affects, like noise, to affect them.


Makes sense to me.

[knightgf]

Why does it work on earth and fire ellies but not on Air ellies?

Its just the way turbine does stuff; they're motives for rules, both the code of conduct and game rules for combat and stuff, are so baffling and on occasion, misleading.. Just like how if you try channeling raw destructive power at any undead being, they are somehow immune to being annihilated. Turbine probably missed the point when they created destruction: Its supposed to destroy ANYTHING that isn't red or purple named. Maybe I could understand it not working on non-corporal enemies, but even then, that stretches the limits. Regardless, nothing except red-named and purple named enemies should be immune to the effects of raw destructive power; even golems, because if you can create it, you can destroy it with raw destructive power.

(And by the way, implosion ACTUALLY works on non-corporal enemies such as wraiths, the title is misleading.)

[Aspenor]

Yep, you missed a memo.

Air elementals come from the plane of air. Dont expect airy affects, like noise, to affect them.

Fire elementals come from the plane of fire. Dont expect fiery effects, like fireballs, to affect them.

And so on.

This is false.

Wail of the Banshee is not an "airy" noise, and Air Elementals certainly can hear (that's the only prerequisite for being affected).

If undead are not affected by Implosion, they definitely should be. I can't test that one out, though.

[Cedwin]

If undead are not affected by Implosion, they definitely should be. I can't test that one out, though.

The only type of undead that it should not affect are incorporeal undead.


Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures.

[Aspenor]

What about sound burst? If the Air Elemental could hear, then it would be stunned by it.
This would be true if elementals weren't immune to stunning as stated in their monster manual entry.

he only type of undead that it should not affect are incorporeal undead.
This is true, I did not clarify and you are correct that I should have.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Air = Gaseous?

[Cedwin]

Air = Gaseous?

That would explain why Implosion doesn't work on Air Elementals, but according to the description of WotB.



You emit a terrible scream that kills creatures that hear it (except for yourself). Creatures closest to the point of origin are affected first.


According to the monster manual, Large Air Elementals have a Listen +5 and Spot +6. It doesn't specify that WotB shouldn't work on gaseous or incorporeal creatures.

[Cedwin]

Actually, I think I found the reasoning behind it.

Wail of the Banshee
Necromancy [Death, Sonic]

By being [Death, Sonic], and an air elemental being from the plain of air, sonic damage shouldn't affect it. That's the only reason I can think of. Air Elementals are immune to sonic damage.

[DoctorWhofan]

This is false.

Wail of the Banshee is not an "airy" noise, and Air Elementals certainly can hear (that's the only prerequisite for being affected).

If undead are not affected by Implosion, they definitely should be. I can't test that one out, though.

Implosion works on undead. Makes the Orchard runs easier for my cleric.

[rat-morningstar]

sound is a vibration in the air
air elementals are immune to air base thingies, no?

[MrCow]

Wail of the Banshee still works on Air Elementals:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00169-1.jpg

[Baahb3]

Its just the way turbine does stuff; they're motives for rules, both the code of conduct and game rules for combat and stuff, are so baffling and on occasion, misleading.. Just like how if you try channeling raw destructive power at any undead being, they are somehow immune to being annihilated. Turbine probably missed the point when they created destruction: Its supposed to destroy ANYTHING that isn't red or purple named. Maybe I could understand it not working on non-corporal enemies, but even then, that stretches the limits. Regardless, nothing except red-named and purple named enemies should be immune to the effects of raw destructive power; even golems, because if you can create it, you can destroy it with raw destructive power.

(And by the way, implosion ACTUALLY works on non-corporal enemies such as wraiths, the title is misleading.)

Actually;

Necromancy [Death]
Level: Clr 7, Death 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell instantly slays the subject and consumes its remains (but not its equipment and possessions) utterly. If the target’s Fortitude saving throw succeeds, it instead takes 10d6 points of damage. The only way to restore life to a character who has failed to save against this spell is to use true resurrection, a carefully worded wish spell followed by resurrection, or miracle.

Destruction is a death effect, thus since undead are immune to death effects (they are already dead) they are immune to this spell.

As for golems;

Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted.

It is not otherwise noted, and constructs are immune to death effects as a racial trait IIRC.

Both take from the SRD.

[Aspenor]

Golems are immune to Implosion because it requires an SR check. Golems are immune to all spells that require one.

Destruction is completely different from Implosion and only works on living creatures. Undead are immune to death effects such as Destruction.

[Cedwin]

Wail of the Banshee still works on Air Elementals:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00169-1.jpg

Ok, so what was the point of this thread again?

[Battleworm]

Wail of the Banshee still works on Air Elementals:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00169-1.jpg

Nice catch Mr.Cow!For some reason i was getting the immune on the named one in desert,all of his cronies as well.I'm somewhat confused now,unless this was changed very recently.

[MrCow]

I took the picture recently, about an hour ago. It looks like it still works in Sands of Menechtarun as well:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00170.jpg

[Aspenor]

Nice catch Mr.Cow!For some reason i was getting the immune on the named one in desert,all of his cronies as well.I'm somewhat confused now,unless this was changed very recently.

Might this be because red-named are immune to instant death effects? Also, are you sure you're getting the spell off? Air eles disrupt spellcasting with their stupid knockdown.

[Cedwin]

For some reason i was getting the immune on the named one in desert,all of his cronies as well.I'm somewhat confused now,unless this was changed very recently.

That would be why. Red named enemies are immune to a lot of spells. It should have worked fine on his cronies though.

[Battleworm]

Might this be because red-named are immune to instant death effects? Also, are you sure you're getting the spell off? Air eles disrupt spellcasting with their stupid knockdown.


He's an orange name,enervate / finger is the common way but i tested whail a bit and it just would pop immune.

[Cedwin]

He's an orange name,enervate / finger is the common way but i tested whail a bit and it just would pop immune.

Oh, well that's different. Orange named mobs should be affected by it. Maybe those air elementals out in the desert have a special buff? They aren't "undead" type are they? It's been a while since I've been out there, but I remember they are in the undead area.

[Aspenor]

He's an orange name,enervate / finger is the common way but i tested whail a bit and it just would pop immune.

if you're getting the spell off, that sounds like a bug that should be reported.

[shadosatblackphoenix]

Destruction, Finger of Death and Banishment definately work on that particular named elemental, and all of his friends.

I'd be very surprised if Wail didn't work.

[MrCow]

The Whirling Ozann is still capable of being hit by Wail of the Banshee:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00171.jpg

[Cedwin]

The Whirling Ozann is still capable of being hit by Wail of the Banshee:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00171.jpg

And the plot thickens.

[MrCow]

And the plot thickens.

*Shrugs*

Perception is a fickle and chaotic thing. I've sworn I've seen things happen that shouldn't/couldn't/didn't happen. There are also exceedingly odd and rare bugs that may be at work as well.

[Battleworm]

The Whirling Ozann is still capable of being hit by Wail of the Banshee:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00171.jpg

The plot thickens indeed.I can swear i got the immune Message last i visited there.I'm sorry to all who's time i apparently wasted. :(

[Cedwin]

The plot thickens indeed.I can swear i got the immune Message last i visited there.I'm sorry to all who's time i apparently wasted. :(

Like I have anything better to do but post on the forums on a monday morning.. :D

[MrCow]

The plot thickens indeed.I can swear i got the immune Message last i visited there.I'm sorry to all who's time i apparently wasted.

Meh, it wasn't a waste of time. It net me 350 EXP and Thadargix's Gem. :p

[Verimont]

do you think that perhaps the air elementals are just getting a Save against wail, and the damage that wail deals upon a save is what is popping up with the immune?

I dont have a high level wizzy/sorc, so i dont know exactly what type of damage wail deals with a successful save, but that could be the issue...