How much of a dumb-ass do you have to be...

[Thrudh]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

[gillilandjoshua]

I'm thinking if he were lookin for dps in shroud and turned down an 18/2 pally rogue u should be glad you didnt make the cut as that may have been a painful run.

[Inspire]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Paladins can't do DPS, they are there to buff the party with Lionheart, what rock have you been living under?

[Jarlaxxx]

I hate when the LFM leader is so inflexible when it comes to accepting players. I mean, even if a Pally/rogue (or any other class/build for that matter)that was built so horribly wrong that he dies while beating on portals he/she did make it to 20, he/she did get flagged, and he/she quite possibly has done the quest before and might know how to best compliment the party.

I say unless the party is specificaly waiting for a healer or caster for a specific quest, give people a shot.

Besides having a couple of wild cards in a group kinda spices it up.

[biggin]

Paladins can't do DPS, they are there to buff the party with Lionheart, what rock have you been living under?

Don't forget to also stand aside for paly aura to up the sorc's AC.

[Thrudh]

I'm thinking if he were lookin for dps in shroud and turned down an 18/2 pally rogue u should be glad you didnt make the cut as that may have been a painful run.

Good point.

[bobbryan2]

It's obviously cuz ya didn't have weapons of good. Obviously.

[Rasczak]

This makes me happy...now at least it isn't just casters getting turned down :D

Btw...how many times did you see him lfm'ing that evening?

[Clay]

maybe he my.ddo.com'd you and didn't like what he saw?

[TreknaQudane]

The real question is who needs only 20s for a normal shroud run.

[chaos_master]

This makes me happy...now at least it isn't just casters getting turned down :DLFM: Looking for DPS
Me (13/6/1 Rog/Rgr/Fig): Sending join request
LFM poster: Dude, we're looking for DPS, no traps in the quest for you

...

[Rasczak]

LFM: Looking for DPS
Me (13/6/1 Rog/Rgr/Fig): Sending join request
LFM poster: Dude, we're looking for DPS, no traps in the quest for you

...


You owe me a new coffee....and a new keyboard, the monitor can be wiped down ;)

[Bunker]

Probably about as much as posting this thread? Face it, your a paladin. Only thing a paladin is good for in the shroud is charging high energy cells. :D

[Judo]

isnt it the pallys sole job to dual wield deception in part 4?

[Shaamis]

this reminds me of the early days before monks were accepted......






.....like they are now :rolleyes:

[Riorik]

this reminds me of the early days before monks were accepted......






.....like they are now :rolleyes:

That's not the same thing. There were, and are, a lot of bad (full/primary) monk builds and bad monk players. A better analogy would be Rangers 3+ years ago.

Just a thought - what if they just didn't want you? I haven't a clue about whether anybody would or would not want you or your character in a raid or quest but anything is possible whether. Sense or reason may not be part of the story.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ive had a lot of strange turn downs on various classes.

Sometimes even when my char is exactly what they advertised for.

It bothers me. But I try to convince myself that if they are being so selective, then it's a group that I wouldn't have fun running with anyway.

I've known for a long time that the people I like to run with will take anyone, and do just fine.

I can accept people thinking they need a healer.
I can accept wanting a Rogue.
And a few quests where certain classes make it easier.

But in most quests, even the highest lvl ones, if you need a certain party make up to succeeed, then it shows a weakness on your part IMO.

[Battleworm]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)


Probably someone that knew you.

[Murgatroyd]

Face it, your a paladin. Only thing a paladin is good for in the shroud is charging high energy cells. :D

Right Ren? :D

[Anderei]

I've been
* kicked from a tempest spine, because leader realized "oh we got 1 rogue already".
* wordless kicked from a flagging quest, when I VCed on beforehand, "oh just you know, this is my first run on that quest"
* turned down with my FvS for groups advertising for a cleric (and yes mine is not melee specced)
.

Don't take it personally these raid/party leaders are with 99.99% likelyhood just idiots and don't deserve you eitherway.

[deathtouch]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

Ha,Im just glad he did not include any of them gimpy rangers either, everyone knows the only deeeppppsssss is fighters and barbarians! ;)

Sometimes I wonder about party makeups, just be glad though you did not join.

[Robi3.0]

Something similar happened to me on my low level pally. I tried to join a group for The Pit and was declined. The leader set me a tell stating that he already had a paladin. I responded "So you feel you have to much DPS then?" Then I went and soloed Delera's for a bit. I didn't want to group with someone who obliviously has no clue what is going on anyway.

[Vhlad]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

It's like my str-based dwarf TWF ranger years ago. Back then most rangers were ranged, or low DPS low AC low hp finesse builds. So I was often not accepted in groups looking for melee/DPS simply due to how terrible most rangers were at the time. The way around it was to specifically send a /tell listing hp, str, weapons. At least nowadays we can myddo people. You didn't have a shield equipped when the group leader myddo'd you, did you?

Well, actually if the group leader just had fighters and barbs selected he was probably just a noob and wasn't myddoing anyone. If you feel you must have good DPS it's better to leave it open for any potential DPS class but myddo people you don't know if they're in a guild you don't know.

There are a lot of new players hitting end-game now and in many cases they don't know what bypasses pit fiend DR and/or don't have a suitable weapon. So when you're doing 8 consecutive runs and if you get 3 poorly built DPS that follow you from run to run, which results in you getting 105+ kills on part 1 (instead of 80-100 kills) and part 4 takes 2 rounds, you're adding maybe 4 minutes per run. And that's 30+ minutes wasted by the end of your session. If that happens every 3 days for 1 month that's over 5 hours of your monthly leisure time being wasted. So call me a big meany if you want, but if I'm filling a pure pug shroud and I see someone with a +2 icy burst longsword of pure good and a shield hit my LFM, I'll ask what weapon they plan to use vs. the pit fiend. If they answer with a poor choice or don't answer at all, I'll decline and tell them to look for a holy/silver or metalline/pure good or silver/pure good (or metalline or silver if they're a 20 pally). Of course sometimes after you say that you have a new player who goes out and buys a metalline longbow of pure good and tries to join again, or they buy 1 weapon with metalline for one hand and 1 weapon with holy for the other hand and say they're good to go. Urgh, you can't win!

Anyway, back on topic, there are still a lot of poorly built paladins out there, who waste item slots on shields and +5 protection items even though they only have 40AC. As more power gamers build DPS paladins or proper intims/tanks, the stigma against paladins will fade, as it did with rangers.

[Anderei]

that's over 5 hours of your monthly leisure time being wasted

Oh the nooz! Time in an online game just *wasted* ...

I can't stop to continue to wonder about the stress mentality some people have. Regarding the way you look at it: time in DDO is either 100% wasted or 0% wasted (when you're having fun)

Oh yes now flame me away. [And yes I can understand why good players zerg e.g. deleras and don't want to fight every mob, especially on TR wanting to get at high lvlers soon. But adding up 4 "wasted" game minutes per run to a terrible wasted time of 5 hours per month... thats just... I cannot cope with this. ]

[Cyr]

Oh no someone did not want your toon in a raid :( Seriously, people make dumb group make up decisions all the time. Is it really needed to post threads about it all the time complaining about it.

[Vhlad]

Oh the nooz! Time in an online game just *wasted* ...

I can't stop to continue to wonder about the stress mentality some people have. Regarding the way you look at it: time in DDO is either 100% wasted or 0% wasted (when you're having fun)

Oh yes now flame me away. [And yes I can understand why good players zerg e.g. deleras and don't want to fight every mob, especially on TR wanting to get at high lvlers soon. But adding up 4 "wasted" game minutes per run to a terrible wasted time of 5 hours per month... thats just... I cannot cope with this. ]

LOL! Must maximize efficiency!

PS. You think someone doing 8 consecutive shrouds is there to have fun & smell the roses? At that point, it's all about loot/time. Well, actually, sub 25 minute runs are fun. After so much repetition the only way to not fall asleep is to keep moving, no delays! Buff on the run!

[Alter]

Maybe they didn't like your name.

Youshould change it to something more spiffy and bold.


MAX POWER - for example.

[Anderei]

Maybe they didn't like your name.

Youshould change it to something more spiffy and bold.


MAX POWER - for example.

Or something that shows your l33t noob skils by mistyping LoTR names.
Aragooooo0ooon

[Vhlad]

Maybe they didn't like your name.

Youshould change it to something more spiffy and bold.


MAX POWER - for example.

I know someone whos last name is Power. He named his dog Max.

[AkromaAoW]

maybe he my.ddo.com'd you and didn't like what he saw?

LOL... based on myddo, I'd likely be refused for a normal waterworks run...but I have largely quit caring about such things. Actually, I've quit caring about many things (and many people) in DDOdom.

I regret to hear about the Pali/Rogue rejection. I haven't been pugging anything but the shroud since EU dropped, maybe a half dozen non shroud pugs since. I found that joining a guild with some nice folks and leaving the rest of DDO-dom behind got rid of most of my headaches. Perhaps Illl feel different one day, but that's the way it is for now. Still, I did attempt to join a NORMAL Gianthold Tor run last week, and I was declined. The LFM poster wrote me to say that he wanted DPS. Its just one of those times that something struck me as extremely funny, and I laughed and laughed until I had tears in my eyes. After a few minutes, I politely offered my future assistance if the current run went south, and that was that. As I wrote above, I really just quit caring about such things, but I did greatly enjoy the humor of the encounter. In any case, OP, perhaps a guild that matches your disposition and play style/goals might be worth considering.

[Aspenor]

There aren't any doors in the Shroud. Paladins are for doorstopping. Duh.

[Mithran]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

It's scary to me how common this level of ignorance is, in raid builders. At one point, I'd considered adding everyone who posted one of these to my /Squelch list, but it happens that many more will exclude Paladins for 'tanking,' too.

[Bunker]

You guys still talking about 1 player being denied in 1 shroud group, out of the hundreds of shrouds that happen each day?

Rejected
Join new group
Rejected
Start own group

Now if you get rejected from your own group, it is time for hello kitty. Aside from that, put on some man pants and go to work. :eek:

[Skani]

At least nowadays we can myddo people. You didn't have a shield equipped when the group leader myddo'd you, did you?

For newbies who gonna read that, and use myddo to "inspect" other chars - remember, that Myddo isnt updated in real time. From what I saw, profile is updated every time the character logout (if there was any changes in gear/stat between logouts), so you cant use it to check what the character have at the time you are checking him (if hes online at this time). It can be usefull to check other characters, but after that, if u see some weird things, dont forget to send tell to the "inspected" character about those things (like Vhlad did, when he saw ice sword/s&b). Declining some1 just because he wear shield in MyDDO would be silly ;)

Just my 2 cop.

[Phidius]

LFM: Looking for DPS
Me (13/6/1 Rog/Rgr/Fig): Sending join request
LFM poster: Dude, we're looking for DPS, no traps in the quest for you

...

Did you thank him? I always thank people when they send me a tell with the decline - or even if they simply hit the Decline button :D

[Kahuna68]

LFM: Looking for DPS
Me (13/6/1 Rog/Rgr/Fig): Sending join request
LFM poster: Dude, we're looking for DPS, no traps in the quest for you

...

+1 for that! If I could have, I would have given you another +1, for that sig! :D

[Zippo]

The real question is who needs only 20s for a normal shroud run.

This is what I was wondering.

[Zippo]

That's not the same thing. There were, and are, a lot of bad (full/primary) monk builds and bad monk players. A better analogy would be Rangers 3+ years ago.

Just a thought - what if they just didn't want you? I haven't a clue about whether anybody would or would not want you or your character in a raid or quest but anything is possible whether. Sense or reason may not be part of the story.

Don't forget about the WF love (sarcasm for those who don't get it) at the time too. :rolleyes:

[Vhlad]

You guys still talking about 1 player being denied in 1 shroud group, out of the hundreds of shrouds that happen each day?

Rejected
Join new group
Rejected
Start own group

Now if you get rejected from your own group, it is time for hello kitty. Aside from that, put on some man pants and go to work. :eek:

*hits bunks lfm*
Vhlad has joined the party
Vhlad says: "Hey bunk pass the star"
*ding* bunk has been removed from party

OHH SNAP! Rejected from own group! Hello kitty time!

[Thrudh]

You guys still talking about 1 player being denied in 1 shroud group, out of the hundreds of shrouds that happen each day?

Rejected
Join new group
Rejected
Start own group

Now if you get rejected from your own group, it is time for hello kitty. Aside from that, put on some man pants and go to work. :eek:

Oh I found another group right away...

I'm just pointing out the craziness of it all... Not really a complaining post... just a funny thing happened to me on the way to work kind of post...

Turning down a TWF KotC paladin (who is guarenteed to have DR beating weapons) for the Shroud is like turning down a wizard for Shadow Crypt...

And no one knows that this paladin is run by Thrudh, and myddo.com shows plenty of Shroud and raid gear...

Basically, the leader was just an idiot, but I guess you all already knew there are idiots in this game, right? :)

[Razcar]

You have to consider that people start up their own pug groups for different reasons. I can see two categories here. What they have in common is that the leader doesn't mind the slight hassle that may occur in forming a pug, especially for a pug raid.

The first category is someone starting their pug for reasons such as that they don't find anything they want to do in the LFM list, or they don't have a network of friends available to run with (at that time) and third, they are already grouped and would need some more people (this third reason has almost died due to various reasons and changes, except for raids). Some people also like to start and lead groups because they think it's fun to lead, rather than out of necessity.

Then we have the second category of group-formers. Some start their own groups because it can be a little power-trip for someone with a low self esteem. You get to pick and choose people and you get a little bit of attention. There is also the possibility that they do not get accepted into other player's pugs due to various reasons (such as personality or for example the combo of "low & loud" game knowledge), and thus have no other option than forming their own.

The second category you can sometimes spot, with either macho or illogical LFM's, but of course not always.

[Tobril]

Then we have the second category of group-formers. Some start their own groups because it can be a little power-trip for someone with a low self esteem. You get to pick and choose people and you get a little bit of attention. There is also the possibility that they do not get accepted into other player's pugs due to various reasons (such as personality or for example the combo of "low & loud" game knowledge), and thus have no other option than forming their own.

The second category you can sometimes spot, with either macho or illogical LFM's, but of course not always.


I have to agree with this statement. I lead five back-to-back pug shrouds a few days ago. The first three were smooth successes with no issues.

The fourth failed in part II!!! (killing things before it was time, not listening, etc) /cry A few people complained that the healers were to blame, and then proceeded to start their own shroud group on ELITE. Apparently they knew something I didn't, as my previous three sub-thirty minute runs didn't count for anything.

The funny thing is that the healers were the same from the previous runs, the only real difference was the players who complained. (the complainers were not in the previous runs)

My fifth run finished in twenty-something minutes and the elite group was still forming.

[Tin_Dragon]

LFM: Looking for DPS
Me (13/6/1 Rog/Rgr/Fig): Sending join request
LFM poster: Dude, we're looking for DPS, no traps in the quest for you

...

I was told almost the exact same thing about a week ago on my 2/6/12 rog rgr barb....

so sad.

then i get yelled at in VoD for out dps'n the dps tank with my 18 pally wf greatsword user.

pallies have no dps at all.....

[Elaril]

For newbies who gonna read that, and use myddo to "inspect" other chars - remember, that Myddo isnt updated in real time. From what I saw, profile is updated every time the character logout (if there was any changes in gear/stat between logouts), so you cant use it to check what the character have at the time you are checking him (if hes online at this time). It can be usefull to check other characters, but after that, if u see some weird things, dont forget to send tell to the "inspected" character about those things (like Vhlad did, when he saw ice sword/s&b). Declining some1 just because he wear shield in MyDDO would be silly ;)

Just my 2 cop.

If I remember, I try to make it a point to put on the worst possible gear in my inventory before I log out.

[Anderei]

If I remember, I try to make it a point to put on the worst possible gear in my inventory before I log out.

On one of my characters I still have the starter regs in the bank. Should make it a rule to put em on before logging :-)

[Freeman]

Maybe they didn't like your name.

Youshould change it to something more spiffy and bold.


MAX POWER - for example.

I believe the correct spelling is xxMAXxx Power these days. Yay for originality!

[Ministry]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

Now, I've only been rejected out right twice in over 3 years playing, but I have sat in the queue for a few minutes on a few occasions and not got picked up.

Were you rejected or just left to rot in queue?

Being rejected as a 18 Pally / 2 Rogue is just rediculous, but being left to rot in the queue is just stupid.

Maybe you have ****ed off someone and they remembered?

I know there are a few people out in ddo land that would reject me if they got their chance, due to personality issues and if that's the case, no point even posting about it.

I know in my time I've been on teams and we have debated people joining and will select those we would prefer. Again, that is not a reason to be disappointed... just get better at the game and relations in game and things will get better.

In the end, people are stupid and some will do stupid things or what seem stupid, but they have their reasons... most likely stupid reasons, but they are their stupid reasons.

:)

[ace_mason]

Am I the only one that read this guys signature? There is some real Hypocrisy going on here. :D

[Bunker]

Am I the only one that read this guys signature? There is some real Hypocrisy going on here. :D

hahaha, good catch!

[geoffhanna]

He was probably holding out for a warlock.

[Tin_Dragon]

You guys still talking about 1 player being denied in 1 shroud group, out of the hundreds of shrouds that happen each day?

Rejected
Join new group
Rejected
Start own group

Now if you get rejected from your own group, it is time for hello kitty. Aside from that, put on some man pants and go to work. :eek:

FTW

Really though people, that is it right there, I dont know how many times I see

Poster
Oh NOES I WAS NOT ALLOWED CAUSE OF X Y Z ITS HORRID YOUR ALL MEANZ)R N00BSSS


Get over it, LEAD your own darn group.

Its what I do. and we all know I am NEVER wrong :rolleyes:

maybe I should start an ALL PALLY shroud.... he did just come of timer.....

[Cyr]

Am I the only one that read this guys signature? There is some real Hypocrisy going on here. :D

lol yeah it's pretty classic.

[Philam]

The sad thing is we will start to see more and more lfms/leaders/groups of people that don't really know what they ar doing! I think you better off not being in that group!

Ph

[royboy]

If Shroud lfm reflected, searching for DPS. Why would you bug him with your, I'm lv 20? Their is a strong chance the star has researched his grp and concluded. DPS would be perfect . Besides if you get declined. Try posting ur own lfm. Of course if u do put up your own LFM. Someone is going to put up.

[Samadhi]

There's a guild leader on our server that regularly doesn't allow pali's on his LFM's. Apparently he is not familiar with KotC ;)

[Thrudh]

Am I the only one that read this guys signature? There is some real Hypocrisy going on here. :D

Heh, touche!

[Ministry]

Am I the only one that read this guys signature? There is some real Hypocrisy going on here. :D

+1 Ace.

Now that was good.

:)

Best advice is the one you wrote yourself and forgot...

;)

[eonfreon]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

Well, obviously you're doing it wrong. My 16 Pally/ 2 Ftr/ 2 Monk never gets declined. HEck I usually get people asking if I'll do the shroud ;).

And by definition your Pally 18/ Rog 2 should do better dps against Harry then me, since you're third tier KoTC and I'm only 2nd tier.

So we have to figure out what you're doing wrong. You must have chosen DoS PrE didn't you? And you admitted it to the party leader didn't you? Aha, we've figured it out :).

Although really, they should have accepted you for the Poison Resist alone. That's usually one of my claims to fame in the Shroud.

[DoctorWhofan]

I generally turn down classes if I already have a bunch in my party that are that class (Rangers, usually) I like to have different types of DPS/healing/or whatever if possible.

Or looking for specifics, like INT for TS or CHA, INT, WIS for Xoriat Cipher. That is generally not by class.

If a guy joins and has some weird build, I generally send a tell back saying, "Hey we need DPS for this party, we are really light on it. Are you heavy DPS?" or picking locks or whatever is needed. Most respond describing their build, Which is fine to get clarifcation. Also, sometimes a little risk might be needed and you might learn something you cna put on your next build.

[Bunker]

It is the Shroud. Only thing you need to have is 12 ppl awake. Heck, sometimes you can get away with a few falling asleep at the keys.

I think everyone here needs to try to fill a shroud group at 3-4 am est. You will soon realize that it will take all night if you choose to be picky. Instead, take the first 12 that hit the lfm, and kick it off.

It is the shroud. Yu can have 11 players that are brand new. As long as you have 1 gamer that knows what is going on, there should be no problem.

BTW, in this day and age of ddo gamers, new and old, "good" "great" "uber" dps can come in the form of monk, barb, fighter, rogue, paladin, ranger, bard, cleric....seriously......it is the shroud.

[Tin_Dragon]

It is the shroud. Yu can have 11 players that are brand new. As long as you have 1 gamer that knows what is going on, there should be no problem.


IF, and I mean a big IF, you can find 11 non morons at the same time. Even 1 moron who refuses to listen the 1 player leading it, can eff it up in a hurry in part 2-3-4 or 5.

Odds are, if your that 1 person who 'knows' you will be yelled/cried/griefed @ by at least 1 n00b calling you an elitist know it all.

Not worth the headache.

[Bunker]

IF, and I mean a big IF, you can find 11 non morons at the same time. Even 1 moron who refuses to listen the 1 player leading it, can eff it up in a hurry in part 2-3-4 or 5.

Odds are, if your that 1 person who 'knows' you will be yelled/cried/griefed @ by at least 1 n00b calling you an elitist know it all.

Not worth the headache.

I have to respectfully disagree. On the one hand, if you form a group expecting that any newer player listening to your instructions will call you a "elitist know it all", then you might be right.

But if you form a group, expecting to enjoy the quest, have a bit of fun, and get a completion, I don't see why 11 new players will a tiny bit of direction can't get it done.

The Shroud is what, a level 17 quest? So they had 1-16 level quests to prepare themselves for the Shroud. By now they understand the mechanics of the game, the ability of thier characters, and probably have grouped a few times on thier way to being flagged for the Shroud.

One thing is true. If you don't want to be a good party leader, you won't be. The lfms that say, "no noobs", "experience only" or "must know quest". There are plenty of reasons a party leader will have an lfm like that. One reason is that they simply do not enjoy being a party leader. They dont' want to have to explain the quest, they want to simply get in there, get'r'done, and then do it all over again with another character.

So why do they form groups in the first place? They don't want to sit around waiting for the lfm for that quest. Those leaders have enough initiative to form the group, but when it comes to being inside the quest, they just want to be the players that does his/her part and that is it. Part of thier enjoyment in gaming is not having to do all that extra stuff. Just simply playing thier character is fun for them. And I get that.

I will say that if you enjoy teaching, helping, explaining quests. It really isn't all that tough. The not so shocking thing is, when explaining a quest to new players, if you talk to them like adults, more times then not, they will respond like adults. Talk to them like a donkey, and you might just get turd all over the quest.

[Krag]

One thing is true. If you don't want to be a good party leader, you won't be. The lfms that say, "no noobs", "experience only" or "must know quest". There are plenty of reasons a party leader will have an lfm like that. One reason is that they simply do not enjoy being a party leader. They dont' want to have to explain the quest, they want to simply get in there, get'r'done, and then do it all over again with another character.

You have listed only one out of many possible reasons. The others could be
- Not being able to use mic.
- No burning desire to carry ill-equipped (no portal-, harrybeaters) through quest
- No joy in wasting resourses (time, pots or both)
- etc.

[Bunker]

You have listed only one out of many possible reasons. The others could be
- Not being able to use mic.
- No burning desire to carry ill-equipped (no portal-, harrybeaters) through quest
- No joy in wasting resourses (time, pots or both)
- etc.

Mic's aren't required.
Anyone with a +5 Holy weapon had a portal/harry beater
wasting time is not an issue, we are playing a computer game you know
ect

[Krag]

Mic's aren't required.
Anyone with a +5 Holy weapon had a portal/harry beater
wasting time is not an issue, we are playing a computer game you know
ect

Just as the 5-th bag is not required it's a pain not to have one.
I've heard about people beating Harry with Muckbanes and Silver Flame clubs. That does not justifies using poor weapons in a casual Shroud run.
For me more time == less fun.

[Aseph]

If you sent like three tells to the leader I think that was the raid me and my bud were running...

p.s pally is nono DPS silly man

[Bunker]

Just as the 5-th bag is not required it's a pain not to have one.
I've heard about people beating Harry with Muckbanes and Silver Flame clubs. That does not justifies using poor weapons in a casual Shroud run.
For me more time == less fun.

I didnt' say +5 holy weapons is the end all to be all. Of course that is not true. And you said it perfectly. To you, slow is un-fun. The whole idea is to have fun.

I dig faster shrouds like the next person. A run that takes 10 more minutes now and again won't kill though. It is shocking to see so many players stress over something as silly as that.

Some players/leaders would rather wait 15 minutes to fill just so they can save 10 minutes inside the quest. Any math majors out there want to tell uswhat is wrong with that statement? :D

[Lleren]

I would rather take a undergeared, underlevel, not able to contribute much guildy, then a random pugger. Any game, any raid.

However when going on a pick up raid, any restrictions placed to filter the folks joining are fine with me, or I would not try and join. Leaders option.

15 minutes longer to form and be more likely to suceed is fine with me. Once Update 3 goes live some of those pick up raids will have link me your X as a restriction. I'm fine with that. I'm also new, and likely won't have X for a while. I can still raid in other pugs and guildrun stuff.

[AkromaAoW]

I have to respectfully disagree. On the one hand, if you form a group expecting that any newer player listening to your instructions will call you a "elitist know it all", then you might be right.

But if you form a group, expecting to enjoy the quest, have a bit of fun, and get a completion, I don't see why 11 new players will a tiny bit of direction can't get it done.

The Shroud is what, a level 17 quest? So they had 1-16 level quests to prepare themselves for the Shroud. By now they understand the mechanics of the game, the ability of thier characters, and probably have grouped a few times on thier way to being flagged for the Shroud.

One thing is true. If you don't want to be a good party leader, you won't be. The lfms that say, "no noobs", "experience only" or "must know quest". There are plenty of reasons a party leader will have an lfm like that. One reason is that they simply do not enjoy being a party leader. They dont' want to have to explain the quest, they want to simply get in there, get'r'done, and then do it all over again with another character.

So why do they form groups in the first place? They don't want to sit around waiting for the lfm for that quest. Those leaders have enough initiative to form the group, but when it comes to being inside the quest, they just want to be the players that does his/her part and that is it. Part of thier enjoyment in gaming is not having to do all that extra stuff. Just simply playing thier character is fun for them. And I get that.

I will say that if you enjoy teaching, helping, explaining quests. It really isn't all that tough. The not so shocking thing is, when explaining a quest to new players, if you talk to them like adults, more times then not, they will respond like adults. Talk to them like a donkey, and you might just get turd all over the quest.


and

/cheer

and

/bow

[Ministry]

... The lfms that say, "no noobs", "experience only" or "must know quest". There are plenty of reasons a party leader will have an lfm like that. One reason is that they simply do not enjoy being a party leader. They dont' want to have to explain the quest, they want to simply get in there, get'r'done, and then do it all over again with another character.

...

Only one thing irks me more than those LFM's... that's the ******s that try to bully players who don't know the game well, don't have the "requisite" equipment and / or don't know the quest listed, but would like to try it.

When I see the LFM's that you have listed... I avoid them like the plague, even before I took my extended break and knew most of the quests and raids quite well.

Seriously, people can say what they want about me or other people in the game like my old mates in Legion, but I've NEVER posted an LFM like that and I've NEVER seen a Legion raid posted with those comments. I've never seen any of the other top guilds in the game post like that either and they know who they are and why they don't have to.

Why?

Because it really doesn't take much to give out a few basic instructions and because we (who don't post like that) aren't afraid of bringing on people who may not be "perfect".

A good leader, a top guild, etc... can drag anyone through to completion on pretty much anything.

I rarely see any top players post LFM's like what you have listed. It's usually players that aren't all that great and / or are unknown and / or fearful and / or lazy players.

Your logic is sound with regard to sometimes we want to do a quest and don't want to lead for various reasons, so we form a team to get er done. In those cases, I form the team and say something along the lines of this as people join... "I want to get this thing done, but don't feel like leading... do you know the quest well enough to lead or follow without instructions? If not, this might not be the run for ya, or I post, "please know quest, because I'm too lazy to lead it".

:)

Maybe it's the choice of wording people use... "No Noobs", or any other terminology that indicates that the person forming the group is all that and anyone else who doesn't know the quest is not up to par. This is so wrong.

I remember back in my big leading whatever days... I would post for a raid and take whomever... well, mostly... there were and still are some players I won't team with. Anyways, I remember one day when someone sent me a tell to explain they don't know the raid, don't speak english too well, etc.. etc.. I accepted him onto team. Well, this guy from Brazil turned out to fit in just fine, needed very little direction, etc. In the end, he joined my raids regularly afterwards and turned out to be a **** fine player in this game.

Now, with respect to Paladins, which I have 3 of... no one who really knows this game would leave a paladin off a raid because they may not have enough DPS or can be a benefit to a party.

I think of my GTWF, Piercing Speced Drow Pally Miserye with KoTC and that Holy Sword Spell. Do the math on a 30 str pally with Zeal and all that other stuff. You should see all the pretty numbers flying by so fast the screen can barely process them, especially in a Shroud run.

Obviously this is not a shot at what you have posted Bunk, or your logic, as you are most likely taking it and representing it in the most positive of light. Me on the other hand, I'm seeing it the other way.

[Bunker]

Obviously this is not a shot at what you have posted Bunk, or your logic, as you are most likely taking it and representing it in the most positive of light. Me on the other hand, I'm seeing it the other way.

Every Clark has a Lex. :D

I could have went that route. I was giving those in this thread the benifit of the doubt. However, we all know that a likely reason to have those lfms I have stated is simply because the leader is trying to fill a void they cannot do themself.

Sure they dont' want any "noobs" in thier groups, because having 2 or more is too much for them to handle, and with them starting the group, there is already 1 noob in the group. :)

Especially on the forums, you will see discussion like this one about lfms like those. Much of the time, these discussions/rants are because gamers take those comments personally. That is the first mistake. Those lfms might appear negative towards those who can't join, but I say knowing ahead of time not to join will probably save you stress and strain in the future. Not liking a leaders lfm is a great indicator that you probably wont' care for the group. So you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be in that group?

Ahhh yes, the entertainment of this game sure does reach beyond the creative minds of Turbine. All these players bring such drama, I have no need for my Weekly late night TV shows. :cool:

[Ministry]

... Those lfms might appear negative towards those who can't join, but I say knowing ahead of time not to join will probably save you stress and strain in the future. Not liking a leaders lfm is a great indicator that you probably wont' care for the group. So you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be in that group?


BINGO!

---

Umm... Clark and Lex?

Oh I hope I'm Lex, as Clark makes me puke.

:eek:

;)

[Aspenor]

p.s pally is nono DPS silly man

I certainly hope this is a joke. If not, you don't know what you are talking about.

[Thrudh]

If you sent like three tells to the leader I think that was the raid me and my bud were running...

p.s pally is nono DPS silly man

Nah, I did send one tell pointing out that a TWF Knight of the Chalice with dual Min IIs does more DPS than any other character in the game in a 1-2 minute fight with the Pit Fiend, but it was more a FYI, and I ended the tell with "but no worries, good luck to ya!"

I didn't ask for him to change his decision, and joined another Shroud group about 45 seconds later...

Really guys, this wasn't me crying about not getting into a group... Just amazing to me that people who are trying to be selective don't know enough to be selective. I thought it was funny.

[eonfreon]

Nah, I did send one tell pointing out that a TWF Knight of the Chalice with dual Min IIs does more DPS than any other character in the game in a 1-2 minute fight with the Pit Fiend, but it was more a FYI, and I ended the tell with "but no worries, good luck to ya!"

I didn't ask for him to change his decision, and joined another Shroud group about 45 seconds later...

Really guys, this wasn't me crying about not getting into a group... Just amazing to me that people who are trying to be selective don't know enough to be selective. I thought it was funny.

Hehe Thrudth, you should know it doesn't matter what you intended it to be about, we're gonna make it about whatever we want to ;).

[Tin_Dragon]

I have to respectfully disagree. On the one hand, if you form a group expecting that any newer player listening to your instructions will call you a "elitist know it all", then you might be right.

But if you form a group, expecting to enjoy the quest, have a bit of fun, and get a completion, I don't see why 11 new players will a tiny bit of direction can't get it done.

.

I Don't understand it either, but it happens, has happened to me, and I have been in Raids of people I run with regularly get the same thing.

They come in, they dont bother saying its their 1st time, or they dont have in depth understanding, then go and screw something up.

I have seen part 2-5 fail because of this. I have seen hounds, Vods fail.

By the time someone owns up to not knowing, its too late, they screwed it for everyone.

So yeah, I'd rather run with people who know than not.

I have had my not n00b friendly lfm up and gotten tells like "1st timer, can i come learn it" 99% of the time, I say sure thing, and they learn it. or at least, they follow directions of we are zerging, and dont hinder anyone. I will teach, but i am not a patient person when it comes right down to it. So I expect directions to be followed the 1st time correctly, just like I am expected to do.



On a similar not, I have a long DNP list just from the last month or so. I just dropped a Shroud, and let the leader know why. Someone who joined is on the list, I told him why, and told him that player is my problem not his. This player Pileon'd through Von flagging with me a few weeks back, and died in EVERYONE killing 10% exp in each quest even though 4, FOUR, of us in group kept repeating the SAME things to him. When I did the raid a few hours later, I had already squelched him, and he sent tells to 5 people in the raid flat out LYING about me being a newbie, and not knowing what I was doing. Many of the group know me, so when the 1 guy who didnt starting REPEATING this **** in VC, they backed me when I told them what really happened.

That single event, was enough after so many smaller ones, to make me not want to deal with newer players most of th e time. And I will drop group in any group he comes into, cleric, caster, doesnt matter. We arent allowed thanks to Turbine to publicly name them, and I dont want to explain this situation 200 times. So, I'll tell the leader I have an issue, and GL, and move on.

[Bunker]

BINGO!

---

Umm... Clark and Lex?

Oh I hope I'm Lex, as Clark makes me puke.

:eek:

;)

Oh don't worry, you are definitly Lex.

[Bunker]

Really guys, this wasn't me crying about not getting into a group... Just amazing to me that people who are trying to be selective don't know enough to be selective. I thought it was funny.

And you want to know why these players are selective? They lead by example. So many Vets do it and post it in thier lfms, that as a newer player, they probably think that it is a good idea.

Nothing like showing the way, just to have the way bite us when we aren't looking. ;)

[RobbinB]

Nah, I did send one tell pointing out that a TWF Knight of the Chalice with dual Min IIs does more DPS than any other character in the game in a 1-2 minute fight with the Pit Fiend, but it was more a FYI, and I ended the tell with "but no worries, good luck to ya!"

I didn't ask for him to change his decision, and joined another Shroud group about 45 seconds later...

Really guys, this wasn't me crying about not getting into a group... Just amazing to me that people who are trying to be selective don't know enough to be selective. I thought it was funny.

Come on over and start a new character on Orien....90% of the lfm leaders haven't a clue and if you have a multiclass you seriously can't get into a group. And there's not going to be another run 45 seconds later since there's maybe one PUG shroud run happening a week, if that. So you are left to run a lot of solo content, which occasionally actually represents a challenge if you don't roll a cookie-cutter sorc, FvS, or monk (since you won't be twinked up the wazoo).

I feel bad for these raid-leader wannabes, since I can just imagine the potential guild chat mocking this person to the point where it has long-time effects on their credibility.

[KingOfCheese]

Having a wild card adds to the challenge. Try doing some of these runs in "sabotage" mode = one or two of the raiders is chosen (intentionally) with the sole goal of trying to ruin the run for everyone else. It is fun to do these, and great practice for how to compensate for the unintentional sabotages you'll get with some players.

[Anyria]

Am I the only one that read this guys signature? There is some real Hypocrisy going on here. :D

I was thinking the same thing!

+1 Rep for calling a whinner a whinner when his own signature states agaisnt such things.

Best laugh I have had in a while (well from the forums anyway)

[Ministry]

Having a wild card adds to the challenge. Try doing some of these runs in "sabotage" mode = one or two of the raiders is chosen (intentionally) with the sole goal of trying to ruin the run for everyone else. It is fun to do these, and great practice for how to compensate for the unintentional sabotages you'll get with some players.

Agreed and Signed.

This is the most fun I have in game.

Running with guys like Wizzly and others with "interesting" senses of humor, whereby their primary goal is to throw off the team.

Greasing in the shroud or Coalescence is my fav. I don't personally do it, but I love when they do and people fall. If I end up being adversely affected by stuff people do, intentionally or not, I adapt and grow from the experience.

Unless I'm in a bad mood, then I give one warning and if it happens again... ramifications are guaranteed to follow... :)

True leaders will take whoever and make it work.

Well, except those on your Do Not Team With list. Luckilly it takes a fair bit to **** me off and I only have about 5 or 6 people on it. I feel bad for the guy who posted a few above me who seems to have quite the long list. I know there are some sub par players out there, but are there really that many ******s that have ****ed you off?

Now, I have noticed since being back for 3 weeks after my lengthy sabatical that the avg level of quality of player has DROPPED severely, but if the DNT with list gets that big, you might not have many people left to team with. I guess this is why I see more and more people sticking to their guilds and approximately 50% or more of the people in the game not in guilds or in their own small guild.

Ouch.

In the end boys and girls, it's not what happens in life that makes you, it's how you react to it.

:)

[Glockduck]

LFM: Looking for DPS
Me (13/6/1 Rog/Rgr/Fig): Sending join request
LFM poster: Dude, we're looking for DPS, no traps in the quest for you

...

LMAO

That is when I would be happy the dumbass didnt pick me. That just saved you..

Time to do something else.
A huge repair bill...
And a tongue lashing from your wife, because she heard you saying blue words, while in the party.

If I was playing a 15/3/2 warchanter dps bard or 13/6/1 tempest rogue or 18/2 pally applying for a dps spot to a pug group and turned down. I would just reply with..

"Thank you for saving me time and frustration, good luck to you"

[Ministry]

....

If I was playing a 15/3/2 warchanter dps bard or 13/6/1 tempest rogue or 18/2 pally applying for a dps spot to a pug group and turned down. I would just reply with..

"Thank you for saving me time and frustration, good luck to you"

OMG... you people are so polite.

I would respond with "Really... you are kidding right... you can't really be that STOOOOPID... can you?"

:)

[juniorpfactors]

Having a wild card adds to the challenge. Try doing some of these runs in "sabotage" mode = one or two of the raiders is chosen (intentionally) with the sole goal of trying to ruin the run for everyone else. It is fun to do these, and great practice for how to compensate for the unintentional sabotages you'll get with some players.

this is what the 2 clerics and FS must have been doing in part 5 Saturday morning when everyone was dead and evertime on my ranger I would raise one of the healers, they would say things like " O darn I should have hit em with another Harm before I died it did almost 400 dmg" or my favorite "well maybe I should have used the pools earlier in the fight, before they dissapeared " or " well I went to the pools to get some mana back, I will raise someone once I get some spell points, oopps Ding deid in those blades, "I took jrps raise in the middle of the room, can I get another raise Jrp" jrp continues raises dead healers.....while many shotting, ding dead healer doing who knows what, never healing themselves never raising anyone...are they hiding? are they out of mana pots? are they out of heal scrolls, are they out of raise dead scrolls? do they not know they can raise the melees? they sure didnt understand healing and keeping up a hero method, that sure didnt work ..... 3 healers and you cant finish part 5.... makes sense, and there were plenty of reincarnates and good guild pugs in the group....unreal....but wait it was ....

NO they were doing the wild card challeng!!!!..ok makes sense cause they sure as heck were not trying to do anything to co-operate as I tried to complete the shroud, if I dont know the players these days its been a interesting time

jrp

[KingOfCheese]

this is what the 2 clerics and FS must have been doing in part 5 Saturday morning when everyone was dead and evertime on my ranger I would raise one of the healers, they would say things like " O darn I should have hit em with another Harm before I died it did almost 400 dmg" or my favorite "well maybe I should have used the pools earlier in the fight, before they dissapeared " or " well I went to the pools to get some mana back, I will raise someone once I get some spell points, oopps Ding deid in those blades, "I took jrps raise in the middle of the room, can I get another raise Jrp" jrp continues raises dead healers.....while many shotting, ding dead healer doing who knows what, never healing themselves never raising anyone...are they hiding? are they out of mana pots? are they out of heal scrolls, are they out of raise dead scrolls? do they not know they can raise the melees? they sure didnt understand healing and keeping up a hero method, that sure didnt work ..... 3 healers and you cant finish part 5.... makes sense, and there were plenty of reincarnates and good guild pugs in the group....unreal....but wait it was ....

NO they were doing the wild card challeng!!!!..ok makes sense cause they sure as heck were not trying to do anything to co-operate as I tried to complete the shroud, if I dont know the players these days its been a interesting time

jrp

lol

Not an intentional sabotage run though as much as they simulated it :) . If it was--they would have stayed alive and had blue bars--it's hard to be fully disrupitve if you are dead. Although now that I think of it, playing dead and innocent did cause you to be distracted by constantly raising them--increasing the chance that you died or at least burning up your resources. Hmmm. Maybe they were master saboteurs after all.

[knightgf]

... to turn down a 18/2 paladin/rogue for a normal Shroud run full of 20th level characters?

Note that this person was looking for "DPS" and only had fighters and barbarians listed in the LFM...

:) :)

Some people are just discriminatory...move along people, nothing but a discriminate leader to see here...

Then again, maybe I shouldn't say that, I AM a bit discriminatory not about classes but the people I know are bad. In particular, its the guild part that I pay attention to, and if I see someone that I know is in a good mostly filled with baboons, I don't invite them in. Every guild has their bad apples, of course, but some guilds are mostly filled with bad apples...

[Ministry]

this is what the 2 clerics and FS must have been doing in part 5 Saturday morning when everyone was dead and evertime on my ranger I would raise one of the healers, they would say things like " O darn I should have hit em with another Harm before I died it did almost 400 dmg" or my favorite "well maybe I should have used the pools earlier in the fight, before they dissapeared " or " well I went to the pools to get some mana back, I will raise someone once I get some spell points, oopps Ding deid in those blades, "I took jrps raise in the middle of the room, can I get another raise Jrp" jrp continues raises dead healers.....while many shotting, ding dead healer doing who knows what, never healing themselves never raising anyone...are they hiding? are they out of mana pots? are they out of heal scrolls, are they out of raise dead scrolls? do they not know they can raise the melees? they sure didnt understand healing and keeping up a hero method, that sure didnt work ..... 3 healers and you cant finish part 5.... makes sense, and there were plenty of reincarnates and good guild pugs in the group....unreal....but wait it was ....

NO they were doing the wild card challeng!!!!..ok makes sense cause they sure as heck were not trying to do anything to co-operate as I tried to complete the shroud, if I dont know the players these days its been a interesting time

jrp

OMG... please tell me we can come out here and post everytime this happens...

I was in a shroud on the weekend... luckilly on my cleric when everyone died in part 5 except me. Yes, I know... all my fault cause I couldn't keep tanks up that only had 200 hit points... argh... Actually I was so exhausted from mana from trying to keep them up, the 2nd cleric was the one that let them drop. Can you believe... 2 clerics and an almost wipe? Well, only so much damage a couple of clerics can do.

People were taking my rez's in the blades and *ding* died again. Then people stopped taking the raises and were just thinking it was going to end.

Luckilly I had a few guys on the run who knew what they were doing and I raised one and kept him up and went hero method to complete.

Some people suck
Some people are stupid
Some people are ignorant
Some people are all 3

I'm just glad there are enough that don't fit into those above categories and we can actually complete stuff.

:)

Again, now I know why the people in the better guilds just end up sticking to themselves and let in the odd pugger, because what can the odd pugger really do to cause enough of a problem.

[weyoun]

Probably someone that knew you.

This is why we get along.

[gorloch]

Again, now I know why the people in the better guilds just end up sticking to themselves and let in the odd pugger, because what can the odd pugger really do to cause enough of a problem.

Generally the worst they can do is die, in which case the cleric can rez them at some time when he/she/they finally have time or the motivation to do it. :D


PIXA

[Arlith]

Dood, there is no reason to be upset.

They just weren't that into you.