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mikker0

01-08-2010, 07:16 AM

This is a not so simple "DDO vs WoW" thread.

I'd appreciate it if the people who are seriously going to debate this just ignore trolls, let them run their rampages, and continue on. The point of this thread is to take the good and bad points of both games, put them up to be seen, and hopefully mabye the dev's will take some notice to what it is that makes a really great game.

Not to say DDO isnt a good game, its fun, and unique, but as I have been playing over the years, it does have its flaws.

1. Lack of content, and repeating of quests.
- This is by far my biggest problem with the game. The repeat quest model is a horrid idea, I feel as if im in a box with no breathing room. All we ever see is the city, and a few extensions of said city, with slayers being a poor excuse of "outdoors". It gets old quick, I think WoW beats DDO here for the sheer fact I dont think ive done even 10% of the quests on either alliance or horde after years of playing. It truly does feel like a new world.

2. Client base.
- Now dont get me wrong, we have all seen it , the VIP's are usually 20+ years of age. Which is a huge positive. However, it also shoots itself in foot this way because theres no new blood. Even with the F2P players, they dont want to stick around due to problem #1 or the fact that they will be berated by older players. WoW may have a few million teens with squeeky voices, but they have players. To often im stuck stagnating at certain levels because of the F2P to VIP gap.

3. Level Cap
- Now I understand every game has a problem with this one, raise it , dont raise it, either way there is going to be fallout. However I think DDO's idea that True Rez solves this by making us grind the same quests EVEN MORE is the worst. At least WoW steals your money while giving you something for it, even if its half assed and just looks nice. New armor, new levels, new quests. Whats the incentive for true rezing besides just to DO something instead of sitting around doing nothing but shroud? The very fact they stated firmly they wont be doing leveling past 20 is a shot in the other foot. Whats the incentive? Why should we get better? Because you'll eventually toss out another raid in the next expansion that we will rape in a week of its release? (And we better rape it in a week, because even with VIP we wont have access to it after)

Now for some good points

1. DDO is very very intricate
- This game is not about fluff. Every quest has a reason, pretty good design, and honestly doesn't hold back the punches. I like that, its a game thats not afraid to be hard or to kill off PC's for fun, its kinda like my DMing. WoW obviously gets owned here as again its a bit to tailored to be playable by anyone starting off.

2. DDO listens
- Instead of playing to the fan boys like WoW does, the Devs from Turbine are making an effort to actually listen to the forums and keep their client base. They take what we say and they USE IT. Its actually kinda refreshing, since our government (im in the USA) doesn't even listen to us anymore. This in itself is a huge plus.

3. Nerfing to a minimum
- One of the great things about this game, is the inability to nerf. Now i realize they can change your enhancements and such, but the truth is, those were extras to begin with. The bottom line is this game is based off D&D and the base classes / races will never really change. You wont see your abilities disappear or get revamped because its pretty much set in stone, this is 3.5 D&D. Something I always hated about WoW is no matter how many times I found a build I liked playing with , a month later it would be gone. That is a horrible feeling, the feeling I have no control over my character.

Anyway im sorry if you got crit by this wall of text, but please leave some feedback on pro's and cons of both games and what can be done to make it less stagnat.

huflung

01-08-2010, 07:23 AM

if you are not trying to get "trolls" in this discussion why even start it?

you are comparing an apples Vs oranges type of game....

in this game it is straight PvE and in the other it is PvEvP ... you really cant compare em...

if you like this game.. play this one... if you like the other.. play that one..... there is absolutely NO need to these compare this to that type of threads

k thx :)

adamkatt

01-08-2010, 07:34 AM

I dont know about anyone else but i seemed to have missed the Crit Fw part of this post.

Bluegrazz

01-08-2010, 07:35 AM

The ONE MAJOR thing I see (for me) that will probably kill the game a bit for me- Is the lack of "filler content" and "fluff".

I LOVE the Dungeons (and I prefer Instance/Raids over any MMO activity) BUT- Sometimes I like to pass some time Harvesting/Crafting/Exploring. I dont WANT to have to have voice chat going 100% of the time I am playing- Sometimes I wanna kick back, listen to the news, talk to my Wife AND play... This really IS going to probably be a long term problem for me and already has limited my gaming on DDO a bit.

My situation is that my Wife is NOT a Gamer at all. She's great as far as allowing me to game away my free time, never complain that I'm online too much and even understands (and accepts) that when I am Raiding, I am 100% focused on the Raid and am not going to chat, answer the door OR let the **** dogs out. =P

When shes home and I am not Raiding, we talk, listen to Audiobooks or Talk Radio (via the computer) cuddle up and I will do some mindless gaming (maybe Harvesting or Grinding for rares) while she works on projects of her own (we dont watch any TV)- DDO really doesnt afford me this luxury as everything is an instance that pretty much revolves around using Voice Chat and constantly staying focused on the Group.

Dont get me wrong- I dont want ez mode. I dont want a solo game... I do want some activities to do (not solo dungeon type stuff) that ARE solo in nature- Some fluff- Something...

This game easily has the best Dungeons I have seen in a video game and (from what I see) the potential for some epic raids with real strategy and tactics trumping "gear"... BUT, there has to be more to the "world"

KillEveryone

01-08-2010, 07:52 AM

<snip>

1. Lack of content, and repeating of quests.
- This is by far my biggest problem with the game. The repeat quest model is a horrid idea, I feel as if im in a box with no breathing room. All we ever see is the city, and a few extensions of said city, with slayers being a poor excuse of "outdoors". It gets old quick, I think WoW beats DDO here for the sheer fact I dont think ive done even 10% of the quests on either alliance or horde after years of playing. It truly does feel like a new world.

They are releasing more content more frequently. Character creation is also content. More quests are good but some(myself) would really like to have more PrEs for character creation. New adventure content has been released since DDO:EU launch.

The city doesn't bother me personally. I have noticed areas on the map of Stormreach that you cannot go such as the space between where you enter house K from the market. There is some city missing that could be explored.

I don't generally do explorer areas unless I have to farm for something. I do get bored with those areas because there is not puzzle to solve, it is just kill...I do like the kill part though. Something I did find entertaining...Farming for tapestries for Minos, the first person I grouped with for this was a lvl 18 wiz, drug the mobs to an area and he spammed firewall on them, I liked that. A nice bonfire.

Stormreach is a hub for the players. There are vendor areas in other parts but the main brokers are in Stormreach and it does make it convient for shopping. It does make it more convienent for questing instead of having to go all over tim-buck-too to get to the quest entrance.

2. Client base.
- Now dont get me wrong, we have all seen it , the VIP's are usually 20+ years of age. Which is a huge positive. However, it also shoots itself in foot this way because theres no new blood. Even with the F2P players, they dont want to stick around due to problem #1 or the fact that they will be berated by older players. WoW may have a few million teens with squeeky voices, but they have players. To often im stuck stagnating at certain levels because of the F2P to VIP gap.

D&D has been around a lot longer than WoW. A lot of players of D&D play DDO so you will have a more mature base. I personally hate WoW with a passion. It sucks. It is easy. It caters to easy. Even still I don't think recruiting teens will help any F2P to VIP gap. Adults have money to spend where they want to spend. Kids don't.

3. Level Cap
- Now I understand every game has a problem with this one, raise it , dont raise it, either way there is going to be fallout. However I think DDO's idea that True Rez solves this by making us grind the same quests EVEN MORE is the worst. At least WoW steals your money while giving you something for it, even if its half assed and just looks nice. New armor, new levels, new quests. Whats the incentive for true rezing besides just to DO something instead of sitting around doing nothing but shroud? The very fact they stated firmly they wont be doing leveling past 20 is a shot in the other foot. Whats the incentive? Why should we get better? Because you'll eventually toss out another raid in the next expansion that we will rape in a week of its release? (And we better rape it in a week, because even with VIP we wont have access to it after)

D&D goes up to lvl 20. DDO is (House Rules) based on D&D and they tend to keep it (House Rules) to the D&D rules. They might be able to change it, they have some (House Rules) wiggle room, but if the license from WotC doesn't allow it then they can't(I don't know if it is in the license but this is a possibility).

I haven't yet hit all the content with my characters. When I TR I'll do stuff I haven't done and some of the other quests I have done because I really like doing them.

Now for some good points

1. DDO is very very intricate
- This game is not about fluff. Every quest has a reason, pretty good design, and honestly doesn't hold back the punches. I like that, its a game thats not afraid to be hard or to kill off PC's for fun, its kinda like my DMing. WoW obviously gets owned here as again its a bit to tailored to be playable by anyone starting off.

This is why I like it and one reason I hate WoW.

<snipped the rest>

Stuff in green.

Angelus_dead

01-08-2010, 07:55 AM

2. DDO listens
- Instead of playing to the fan boys like WoW does, the Devs from Turbine are making an effort to actually listen to the forums and keep their client base. They take what we say and they USE IT.
I am terribly curious as to why you think that the WOW developers are less responsive to forum comments than the DDO team. I mean, seriously...

As an example, I just grabbed the most recent post from the WOW dev tracker:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22418743721&pageNo=3&sid=1#45
4+ paragraphs of detailed responses to player concerns, which also includes dismantling some player misconceptions.

I would like to see one DDO developer post that had that level of candor. I don't think there is one on this entire forum.

3. Nerfing to a minimum
- One of the great things about this game, is the inability to nerf. Now i realize they can change your enhancements and such, but the truth is, those were extras to begin with. The bottom line is this game is based off D&D and the base classes / races will never really change.
To the extent that this is true, it is not a positive. The ability to nerf is the ability to fix.

Bluegrazz

01-08-2010, 08:19 AM

I am terribly curious as to why you think that the WOW developers are less responsive to forum comments than the DDO team. I mean, seriously...

As an example, I just grabbed the most recent post from the WOW dev tracker:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22418743721&pageNo=3&sid=1#45
4+ paragraphs of detailed responses to player concerns, which also includes dismantling some player misconceptions.

I would like to see one DDO developer post that had that level of candor. I don't think there is one on this entire forum.

To the extent that this is true, it is not a positive. The ability to nerf is the ability to fix.

I have actually found Blizz to be a very good company (personally I feel that way about Turbine as well) Wow is also a Great game (for what it is) and I have had a great time running around Azeroth... Wow just caters to the baseline Bell curve average... It really is a pretty easy game (getting easier by the Xpac) and it NOW caters to "casual" type gamers. Wow is a "fad", but a well polished one and generally alot of fun- AND there is some Hardcore content there...

Also, I began playing D and D when I was in the second grade- My major D and D phase WAS when I was a teenager. I have no problem playing with Teens as long as they are Mature. I think the Mature Base of DDO has more to do with a nostalgia many of us have for when we were teenagers and had huge tabletop games going every weekend... MMO's killed PnP and MMO's can never be as rich- So we reminisce... Alot of the Teenagers today never had the PnP experience so to them, WoW is what D and D was to us-

If that makes sense.

Angelus_dead

01-08-2010, 08:21 AM

I would like to see one DDO developer post that had that level of candor. I don't think there is one on this entire forum.
Here's a better example: named loot balance. See what WOW developers say about complaints for certain items:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22418862558&sid=1&pageNo=10#195

Count the meaningful dev responses in there, and then compare to the developer replies when there is similar feedback regarding DDO loot:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223447

tihocan

01-08-2010, 08:32 AM

The very fact they stated firmly they wont be doing leveling past 20 is a shot in the other foot.
Where did they state that?
As far as I can remember all dev comments I read on going past 20 have been in the direction of doing it at some point in the future, although it's true they've been vague as to when this would be expected.

Letrii

01-08-2010, 10:24 AM

I dont know about anyone else but i seemed to have missed the Crit Fw part of this post.

Wall of Text, not Firewall.

MrWizard

01-08-2010, 11:07 AM

Cupcake

01-08-2010, 01:24 PM

I'm sorry, but I tried wow for a short time. I found it pretty but as a game completely lacking.

Yes, it was wide open with lots of walking and stuff, but there was nothing to do buy kill little critters and go back and forth. Sure, new content at every step like spiders, rats, etc...but it was like playing some old 1980s text game that had graphics.

Combat was horrid compared to DDO...i mean really basic and boring.

I can see why that game has lots of kids, it is just rote stuff, boring...

DDO offers incredibly complex character building compared to WoW.
DDO combat, to me, is hands down the best combat system around, period.
DDO dungeons are real 'content' while all those gather pelt things are just....well....stupid.

DDO could make some more huge open areas to make it 'WoW' like and maybe should, however if I have to walk for 30 minutes to get to a quest I am out of here.

DDO took the long long long walks and get together times and used teleports to just get people together at a far off land. This is great for gameplay.

This game is more complex to understand and enjoy, thus not for 6 to 12 year olds like WoW is...

and thank you for that DDO..

Im kinda laughing at your response here. I can see and do appreciate both sides of this issue though I have never played WoW. I have played EQ2 and there are many many things in EQ2 I wish were in DDO. Specifically, guild halls, crafting, harvesting, the market boards, etc etc etc.

As for 30 min walks. Nah, Never took that long. And with a 55% mount, took even less time. :D

I find DDO very restrictive in that sense. It gets tiring running the same quests over and over. This is becoming a personal problem for me because in our small guild, the new players are just that, new. All free to play, and none of them can afford, or have gotten, the adventure packs. So what quests we can do is severely restricted. Makes it even harder to ignore the boredom of quest repetition when it sets in.

mikker0

01-08-2010, 02:21 PM

Im kinda laughing at your response here. I can see and do appreciate both sides of this issue though I have never played WoW. I have played EQ2 and there are many many things in EQ2 I wish were in DDO. Specifically, guild halls, crafting, harvesting, the market boards, etc etc etc.

As for 30 min walks. Nah, Never took that long. And with a 55% mount, took even less time. :D

I find DDO very restrictive in that sense. It gets tiring running the same quests over and over. This is becoming a personal problem for me because in our small guild, the new players are just that, new. All free to play, and none of them can afford, or have gotten, the adventure packs. So what quests we can do is severely restricted. Makes it even harder to ignore the boredom of quest repetition when it sets in.

I just thought about it thanks to you, but I think I know why im getting claustrophobic.

I played EQ for 4 years, and that game is MASSIVE, makes WoW look like a closet. So a game like DDO that everything is withing 5 min walking distance makes me feel so boxed in.

Cupcake

01-08-2010, 04:21 PM

I just thought about it thanks to you, but I think I know why im getting claustrophobic.

I played EQ for 4 years, and that game is MASSIVE, makes WoW look like a closet. So a game like DDO that everything is withing 5 min walking distance makes me feel so boxed in.

It can if you aren't used to it.

Takes some time.

Though I miss Antonica LOL.

Dark_Helmet

01-08-2010, 05:09 PM

This is a not so simple "DDO vs WoW" thread.
I'd appreciate it if the people who are seriously going to debate this just ignore trolls, let them run their rampages, and continue on.

Comparing apples to oranges, so yes it is a DDO vs. WOW thread.
If you don't want trolls, keep it out of the forest: it should be in the appropriate off topic forum. :cool:

But, to respond to a point or two:

2. DDO listens
- Instead of playing to the fan boys like WoW does, the Devs from Turbine are making an effort to actually listen to the forums and keep their client base. They take what we say and they USE IT. Its actually kinda refreshing, since our government (im in the USA) doesn't even listen to us anymore. This in itself is a huge plus.

Hah! Once in awhile we get a dev who does respond, then they slap his hand and make some left turn changes that most of the community is up in arms about.

3. Nerfing to a minimum
- One of the great things about this game, is the inability to nerf. Now i realize they can change your enhancements and such, but the truth is, those were extras to begin with. The bottom line is this game is based off D&D and the base classes / races will never really change. You wont see your abilities disappear or get revamped because its pretty much set in stone, this is 3.5 D&D.
:eek: Are you actually serious or is this tongue in cheek? :confused:

There is a huge list of rules they changed - not just to adapt to the technology of doing it online, but they made changes to rules that worked perfectly fine online. Their management LOVES to nerf and make D&D players cringe. They are like the DM who likes to punish players (this is my world and how dare you succeed in foiling my plans).
Core rule stuff that got nerfed: Cloudkill? Spell Durations? 0 con is stunned, not death? just to mention a few.

We need to actually get a listing together in a thread but they will just close it out.

Lorichie

01-08-2010, 05:15 PM

if you like this game.. play this one... if you like the other.. play that one..... there is absolutely NO need to these compare this to that type of threads

k thx :)

In my worthless opinion, this is it....too often we get caught up on the shinies...whats a game going to do for ME...we forget we once played....to PLAY....things change over time and we start playing for loot, for grind, for something other than what used to be fun, sitting at a table with a group of friends all those years ago....

The internet changed that, its no longer as personable as it used to be, but its still the same to me at least...play to play the game and not let the game play you....If you enjoy it, play it, if you dont....its time to go, for whatever reason...

(yes i know for some people enjoyment is in the loot, i was hoping we'd skip that thought for the moment tho i know it wont happen. if it cant happen, then the quote above becomes even more important...play what game you like better...there is no halfway.)

R

ddaedelus

01-08-2010, 05:18 PM

I think WoW beats DDO here for the sheer fact I dont think ive done even 10% of the quests on either alliance or horde after years of playing. It truly does feel like a new world.

I call shenanigans.

SlipperyPete

01-08-2010, 05:29 PM

- Now dont get me wrong, we have all seen it , the VIP's are usually 20+ years of age. Which is a huge positive. However, it also shoots itself in foot this way because theres no new blood. Even with the F2P players, they dont want to stick around due to problem #1 or the fact that they will be berated by older players. WoW may have a few million teens with squeeky voices, but they have players. To often im stuck stagnating at certain levels because of the F2P to VIP gap.

This is a big reason why DDo has such a loyal and long-term client base as well. Bigger <> always equal better.

cyanpill

01-08-2010, 05:41 PM

I call shenanigans.

Yeah, same here. When I was playing WoW, I had 2 characters up to the level cap soon after each expansion came out, and had completed about 90% of the quests in the game. I left largely because the game got stale way too fast- once you reach the cap you are stuck just repeatinbg the same quests again. In DDO atleast there's some complexcity to the quests... WoW was just "kill ten rats" quests, as the saying goes.

ChaelaAnne

01-08-2010, 05:41 PM

I call shenanigans.

I have nothing productive to say aside from that this made me spit coffee all over myself for laughing (I have no idea why). I'm out of rep, so thanks for the laugh.

aerieon

01-08-2010, 05:44 PM

I call shenanigans.

Ditto, if anything id say that the quests are more/less similar in count. There seriously weren't that many quests in WoW and you had to repeate them forever and a day to gain more faction so that you could "buy" stuff from that faction merchant. Although I will say each starter area did have different ish quests (some starter areas were actually the same area so it doesn't really count as different now does it), although those quests only got you to what level 10? (forget exact level been a long time since I played), and with the cap at what is it now 80? that is just a spit in the bucket compaired to the rest of the quests that you need to do. After the starter areas there realy wasn't that much diversity as far as quests and quest areas you more/less got funnelled through a path to get to cap.

NOW if your going to talk about the differences of the quests like DDO has quests with puzzles in them, quests to make you do gymnastics to get from point A to point B to flip a switch to progress through versus gather 10 rats tails with WoW that to me would be more of an interesting compairson.

Me personally I think both games are fine for what they are, they aren't the same and I'm glad that they aren't. EACH has it's own pro's and con's. One has to really decide on ones own which is best for them.

calvinklien

01-08-2010, 06:10 PM

Kotasirith

01-08-2010, 06:29 PM

mikker0

01-08-2010, 07:17 PM

I dont know what WoW you guys played, but every time I played the game again on another toon, I was always finding new and interesting things.

Like did you know theres a snakes on a plan reference, its absolutely hilarious, its literally a broken plane with snakes all over it, and its in the middle of like nowhere.

The game has 100's of quests in every zone, many of which are chain.

I really see this as a huge + because it never got boring for me, I always liked getting to the next quest.

Sadly BC came out, and it got boring , and then WOTLK killed it even more.

But I think DDO should take a few pages out of WoW's book and leave out all the **** that brings it down.

aerieon

01-08-2010, 07:23 PM

I dont know what WoW you guys played, but every time I played the game again on another toon, I was always finding new and interesting things.

Like did you know theres a snakes on a plan reference, its absolutely hilarious, its literally a broken plane with snakes all over it, and its in the middle of like nowhere.

Had multiple level 70 chars when I left, yes lots of quests but there are lots of quests in ddo. Also yes I did do snakes on a plane. Kind of hard to not do all of the quests after you cap a few characters. :( Also like I said the starter areas were realy the only ones that had a few quests that were really out of the ordinary path because you leveled through them so fast, like the undead starter area was different then the tauren starter area that was different then the elf starter area. Some of the starter areas were shared like orcs, trolls, dwarves and gnomes.

Arculea

01-08-2010, 08:02 PM

I have to agree with those that wrote, ddo feels a bit small.

Not sure why this is? Maybe a lack of other cities/villages has to do with it. The other villages I encountered so far (like 3BC or Korthos) are more or less a staging area for quests of a certain level range and get uninteresting as soon as you surpass this level.

Maybe it would help if we had more cities that are more than staging areas for quests and/or at least have a greater diversity of quest levels (so that maybe you can visit a certain village like Korthos once at Level 1-3 to do quests there, but also have a reason to visit them in later levels, maybe because there are other quests, for example for levels 10-14, or because, aside from quests, the village has other things that makes it interesting for visit by chars of a higher level (for example shops that sell items you can find only there, temples to pray to certain gods [which might lead to in game effects] and so on)).

At the moment most APs/Areas feel like chapters in a book. You open them at a certain time to do the quests therein and after you have done all quests and are at a certain level at which you don´t gain any/much XP from them anymore, you close said chapters again, without much looking back (at least until you have another character who is in the necessary level range for said AP/area). Maybe with the possible changes I mentioned, said areas/APs would feel less like a chapter, but more like an integral part of the world.
(to bring a comparison to PnP D&D: I see the quests / quest chains equivalent to the adventures/campaigns of D&D. But while the adventures/campaigns of course need a certain level/-range for which they are written, this doesn´t count for the area in which they take place (like 3BC, Korthos, Ataraxias haven and so on) and an area that houses a level 5 quest/-chain could very well also house a level 15 quest/-chain).

(what I wrote of course shouldn´t be regarded as if I don´t like ddo... I wouldn´t have invested so much money in its APs if it ween´t the case ;) It just expresses my feelings about certain parts of the game and the possible reasons why this is the case)
(and it also should be no comparison with WoW from my part, which, after all, I never played, if I could compare ddo to something, it would rather be certain D&D themed PC-RPG-Series like Baldurs Gate or NWN)

Pollyester

01-08-2010, 09:51 PM

To repeat what another poster wrote, DDO is not WoW and things that work in WoW might not work in DDO...two different animals here. There are some superficial similarities between the two, but far more differences. Personally, I think both are fine games and I haven't been a child in a long time. (for those who post WoW is for children.) :)

I can't imagine this thread will be received well by many forum goers, I imagine they would much rather discuss DDO in a DDO discussion forum, not WoW or some other game. Even so, I could not resist chiming in. :p

Here's a better example: named loot balance. See what WOW developers say about complaints for certain items:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22418862558&sid=1&pageNo=10#195

Count the meaningful dev responses in there, and then compare to the developer replies when there is similar feedback regarding DDO loot:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223447

I agree, I think Blizzard does a great job communicating with the player base. I can't comment on what devs do in DDO, I haven't been here long enough.

I'm sorry, but I tried wow for a short time. I found it pretty but as a game completely lacking.

*snip*
DDO could make some more huge open areas to make it 'WoW' like and maybe should, however if I have to walk for 30 minutes to get to a quest I am out of here.

DDO took the long long long walks and get together times and used teleports to just get people together at a far off land. This is great for gameplay.

Not every game is for every person. I respectfully disagree completely with your assessment. There is far more than just killing spiders and walking around. Both ground and flying mounts as well as flight paths make traveling much less cumbersome than running around everywhere on foot. I also found quest chains that were very involving with an interesting storyline.

Ditto, if anything id say that the quests are more/less similar in count. There seriously weren't that many quests in WoW and you had to repeate them forever and a day to gain more faction so that you could "buy" stuff from that faction merchant.
At level cap, this is true to an extent. Folks grind heroic 5 man dungeons and daily quests for reputation, (and boy, it does get to be a grind...one of the reasons I am enjoying DDO). :D

However, questing is handled rather differently in DDO than it is in WoW...as you may remember "regular" (and by regular, I mean quests that take place in the open world, not instances) quests in WoW are by and large a *one* time completion per character.

As to there not being very many quests, I must disagree. In order to obtain the Loremaster achievement a player must complete hundreds of quests, 700 in the Eastern Kingdoms alone (this is on Alliance side, Horde has a lower amount overall).

http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1681

Me personally I think both games are fine for what they are, they aren't the same and I'm glad that they aren't. EACH has it's own pro's and con's. One has to really decide on ones own which is best for them.
Here is something we both agree on. :)

suitepotato

01-08-2010, 10:03 PM

I will only comment on the age of the player base. They are largely late 20s to early 30s on up, and many of the best (in terms of personality) are in their 40s and 50s. I've seen entirely too many children in the bodies of 19 year olds, and have no interest in it. You might regard it as stereotyping, but I have limited time and patience, online games overwhelmingly attract a narrow range of psychological types, and the most youthful of them tend to be a little interpersonally dysfunctional.

So, I like older people being here. If they all act like parents and lead with good behavior, then maybe the younger ones will learn some of it too. Besides, what did you expect for a game setting that goes back to people in the early 70s who were college aged then?

aerieon

01-08-2010, 10:35 PM

To At level cap, this is true to an extent. Folks grind heroic 5 man dungeons and daily quests for reputation, (and boy, it does get to be a grind...one of the reasons I am enjoying DDO). :D

However, questing is handled rather differently in DDO than it is in WoW...as you may remember "regular" (and by regular, I mean quests that take place in the open world, not instances) quests in WoW are by and large a *one* time completion per character.

As to there not being very many quests, I must disagree. In order to obtain the Loremaster achievement a player must complete hundreds of quests, 700 in the Eastern Kingdoms alone (this is on Alliance side, Horde has a lower amount overall).

http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1681

OK I conceed i've played way to many MMO's and apparently my memory is slipping on me on the exact details for wow. What I remembered alot of was endgame play.

Pollyester

01-08-2010, 11:10 PM

OK I conceed i've played way to many MMO's and apparently my memory is slipping on me on the exact details for wow. What I remembered alot of was endgame play.
I understand, and for the record I was not trying to point fingers or call you out personally. Just trying to correct something that did not match up with my personal experiences.