your experiences with Quivering Palm

[TheBlueFox]

Before I get into Quivering palm, let me just say that I love Stunning Fist. Its ridiculous, and casters will fail their save against it nine times out of ten at level 15 content which Im currently at. If they dont, or im fighting anything else, a 5% weighted acid wrap will do the trick. As a result, I often have quite alot of Ki to blow on MORE stunning fists. The 15 Ki cost is a good deal, since I really only spam elemental strikes on enemies I cant stun, like bosses, or for a quick party blur/Align the heavens.

But now I have access to Quivering Palm. The DC is the same as Stunning blow if Im not mistaken. But why would I use it on casters, it seems that an instant kill is nice, but if they are stunned, its essentially better for gaining MORE Ki, since this strike costs double that of Stunning blow, and really, when is a caster going to survive more than 3 seconds against constant autocrits coming from a wind stance monk with a bloodstone?

so alright, dont use it on casters then. Melee enemies would be nice to instantly get rid of, but they often have good fortitude, and risking 30 ki on a strike that has a good chance of failure is kind of a pain, especially since melee targets are often getting the attention of a fighter or other party member, and stunning them would allow that kopesh wielding TWF fighter to cream his pants with numbers.

Hmm, well if not Melee, or casters, then how about the archer or Rogue types? I can see this doing well there I suppose. Ranged enemies dont have as much fortitude, but still more than the caster-ey types, And they can sometimes be annoying to get rid of...

SO tell me, When does Quivering Palm > Stunning Blow?

I suppose now whenever I have 100+ ki, I can spam both of them rather than waiting for the 6 second cooldown on Stunning blow, whichever one hits first makes me win.

[QuantumFX]

So tell me, When does Quivering Palm > Stunning Fist?

When you need to kill 2 or more low fort save guys quickly. Or when you can reach out and slay the caster and stun the melee. (Melee have more HP for Ki regen.)

[TheBlueFox]

MMm thats right, that would be nice.

Though I have lost count of the times I've been taking down a high value enemy from full HP (orange caster, shaman behind a wall healing melee, annoying flame strike caster) that I've leaped over other enemies to get to, only to have someone sweep in and hit them once, taking my kill D:< I dont mind the kill count, but at least let me get some KI, he's stunned already...

Now...I've bound Stunning blow to R with my WASD movement, making it easy to hit...What shall I bind QP to...F maybe, or T...

So? anyone else like Quivering Palm? any situations you use it in?

[xTethx]

MMm thats right, that would be nice.

Though I have lost count of the times I've been taking down a high value enemy from full HP (orange caster, shaman behind a wall healing melee, annoying flame strike caster) that I've leaped over other enemies to get to, only to have someone sweep in and hit them once, taking my kill D:< I dont mind the kill count, but at least let me get some KI, he's stunned already...

Now...I've bound Stunning blow to R with my WASD movement, making it easy to hit...What shall I bind QP to...F maybe, or T...

So? anyone else like Quivering Palm? any situations you use it in?

If you went elegant crane path then you should spam quivering palm first, if they save hit them with a stun and kill to build more ki, then abundant step to next enemy rinse and repeat. Throw in an unbalance when u get the goggles and a fol when u lose some health and ull do just fine as a monk. If you didnt go crane then u cant really use this combo til u get the capstone, or unless u gimped urslef and use fire stance.

[TheBlueFox]

I already have crane 2/3, I've been neglecting getting 3 for a bit, since its a -1 fort save for +1 ki on crits and I have plenty for right now.

As for the goggles, I assume you mean Tharnes? yea, I'm lookin for those still >.>

I usually run in, hit a stunning blow, if it misses, Unbalancing strike + FOL and wait for the cooldown while punching the **** out of it so my 5% weighted procs.

Does me pretty well so far. I find it odd that Unbalancing strike forces enemies to physically turn around...

[xTethx]

I already have crane 2/3, I've been neglecting getting 3 for a bit, since its a -1 fort save for +1 ki on crits and I have plenty for right now.

As for the goggles, I assume you mean Tharnes? yea, I'm lookin for those still >.>

I usually run in, hit a stunning blow, if it misses, Unbalancing strike + FOL and wait for the cooldown while punching the **** out of it so my 5% weighted procs.

Does me pretty well so far. I find it odd that Unbalancing strike forces enemies to physically turn around...

Unbalancing strike does wonders to enemies, my favorite is zerg Mentau elite and hit him once with it and he just stands there with a blank stare.

Or if you dont like ur party leader hit old Harry with it once in pt4 of shroud ;)

[MrCow]

Another situation where you would use Quivering Palm over Stunning Fist is on elementals (as they are able to be hit by instant death effects but immune to stunning effects).

[xTethx]

Another situation where you would use Quivering Palm over Stunning Fist is on elementals (as they are able to be hit by instant death effects but immune to stunning effects).

Aye only been able to pull the quivering palm once on an air elly, but the feeling was oh so gratifying.

[TPICKRELL]

The spider mob's in the Vale...

[Cedwin]

The spider mob's in the Vale...

Definitely, they have DR/pierce, and monks have no pierce weapons. QP works perfectly in those situations.

What bugs me is when I'm running around on my monk, trying to build up ki, and the caster is using FoD and WotB on everything. It's like, dude, save your SP and start throwing mass hold person or something. lol

[DANTEIL]

Maybe it's just me because I haven't played a monk and know nothing about the various abilities, but this topic title is vaguely dirty... :)

[TheBlueFox]

What bugs me is when I'm running around on my monk, trying to build up ki, and the caster is using FoD and WotB on everything. It's like, dude, save your SP and start throwing mass hold person or something. lol

Ugh I HATE that! I run toward an enemy, hit it with stunning fist, or try to use it, and BAM its instakilled...waste of Ki and waste of time >.> Annoying mages.

[Daim]

Definitely, they have DR/pierce, and monks have no pierce weapons.

The staff from the mindsunder is piercing.

[TheBlueFox]

Rahl's Might? thats a special case, because its pierce, blunt, AND Slash...I think...honestly not too sure.

Anyways, aside from one weapon, yea I agree, DR/ Pierce can be annoying. However, those spiders are awesome to gain Ki on because of it. My AC is too high for them to hit me, so my bar just goes up up up as I stun them and take them down one at a time. but then...I might as well use some of that bar to finish em off.

[Halock]

Rahl's Might? thats a special case, because its pierce, blunt, AND Slash...I think...honestly not too sure.


Its all 3 :)

[QuantumFX]

Ugh I HATE that! I run toward an enemy, hit it with stunning fist, or try to use it, and BAM its instakilled...waste of Ki and waste of time >.> Annoying mages.

Speaking of this type of behavior made me think of another situation where QP is better than SF. Running vale quests where my “shadow” thinks it’s a great idea to dual wield banishers.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Qp is awesome and I love it - course I also have a 34 Wis on my monk (28 dex) so there isnt much that I dont stun or palm. keep in mind that I have found that 95% of the time if you stun something dpending on what type of creature it is but example is A trog in the vale. Stun it and if you are wearing banishers it will banish it next swing, or lose its head if it is vorpalable, etc.

[MarcusCole]

Qp is awesome and I love it - course I also have a 34 Wis on my monk (28 dex) so there isnt much that I dont stun or palm. keep in mind that I have found that 95% of the time if you stun something dpending on what type of creature it is but example is A trog in the vale. Stun it and if you are wearing banishers it will banish it next swing, or lose its head if it is vorpalable, etc.

Vorps only work on a natural 20 but yeah I love using banishers with SF. The other time when I use QP are casters with fireshield (when I'm not with someone who can throw resists)

[Reyjak]

My experiance with quivering palm in groups is that as i'm doing it, they get fingered and die before my hand hits them........other than that I love it :)

[RhapsodieInBlue]

My experience is that the mob will twitch and my tiny halfling hands won't even land it for him to roll a 20.

[Judo]

Definitely, they have DR/pierce, and monks have no pierce weapons. QP works perfectly in those situations.

What bugs me is when I'm running around on my monk, trying to build up ki, and the caster is using FoD and WotB on everything. It's like, dude, save your SP and start throwing mass hold person or something. lol


edit

beat me to it

[Mumu720]

Just curious, is it effective at endgame? Also do you have to be human to use it?

[r3dl4nce]

Effective depending on build (you must have a very high wis)
Any monk of any race can use QP

[Mumu720]

Ok so, ive heard that at end game monks become very weak in the damage department, how can i make it so im still an effective killer?

[r3dl4nce]

holy burst rings from ToD.
Use all your fists (lightning punch and earth punch are very useful)
Cooldown on punch in different tiers (e.g. air IV, air III, air II ...) are different so you can rotate your punch to get the most damage.

[Mumu720]

Ok but i mean build wise, is there a certain way to prepair you toon for end game with stats, like more str more dex?
Also are there certain feats/enhancements that you need in order to get qp?

[Rameses]

My personal experiences are of that of an endgame Double True Reincarnated Halfling Monk...

1.) Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm (from here out known as SF and QP) lose effectiveness once you start hitting Amarath and Inspired Quarters unless you have a 40+ Wisdom (my Halflings 1st True Reincarnation) at which point SF and QP are about 35%'ish (guess-timating)

2.) A SF and QP DC of 30+ is perfect for out in the Vale.

3.) True Reincarnate your monk at least once, it is very well worth it.

4.) Farm the Devout Wraps the Metalline of Pure Good are almost a must for Raids and Devils. But not having them does not mean you will not do DPS.

5.) Craft yourself guards. (IE: on my monks Dragon Touch Outfit I have Corrosive Salt and Earthgrab Guards. And I've crafted the following: Lightning Blast, Crushing Wave, Disruption and Air Guards.) Since any extra-damage dealt is good damage no matter what.

6.) A must for any End Game Monk is crafted Tower of Dispair Rings: Holyburst and Shocking Burst. These are best for Devils of any kind though I will mention that Tieflings and Gnolls are immune to the Shocking Burst effect. (if you haven't figured that out yet)

That's about all the advice I have.

I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

Also a point I'd like to make... as a end game Monk.
I always open an encounter with two normal strikes followed by Stunning Fist followed Unbalancing Strike until target is dead. On the next target I'll open with two normal attacks followed by Quivering Palm, Stunning Fist and Unbalancing Strike. Then rinse and repeat. This I have found is profoundly effective.

I am, Rameses!

[Arsont]

My personal experiences are of that of an endgame Double True Reincarnated Halfling Monk...

1.) Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm (from here out known as SF and QP) lose effectiveness once you start hitting Amarath and Inspired Quarters unless you have a 40+ Wisdom (my Halflings 1st True Reincarnation) at which point SF and QP are about 35%'ish (guess-timating)

2.) A SF and QP DC of 30+ is perfect for out in the Vale.

3.) True Reincarnate your monk at least once, it is very well worth it.

4.) Farm the Devout Wraps the Metalline of Pure Good are almost a must for Raids and Devils. But not having them does not mean you will not do DPS.

5.) Craft yourself guards. (IE: on my monks Dragon Touch Outfit I have Corrosive Salt and Earthgrab Guards. And I've crafted the following: Lightning Blast, Crushing Wave, Disruption and Air Guards.) Since any extra-damage dealt is good damage no matter what.

6.) A must for any End Game Monk is crafted Tower of Dispair Rings: Holyburst and Shocking Burst. These are best for Devils of any kind though I will mention that Tieflings and Gnolls are immune to the Shocking Burst effect. (if you haven't figured that out yet)

That's about all the advice I have.

I am, Rameses!

I bow to your superior knowledge and prowess of the class. Teach me your ways, oh Grandmaster of Monkdom!!

I mean it. Would you mind answering a few questions if I PM'd you or something?

[Arsont]

If you went elegant crane path then you should spam quivering palm first, if they save hit them with a stun and kill to build more ki, then abundant step to next enemy rinse and repeat. Throw in an unbalance when u get the goggles and a fol when u lose some health and ull do just fine as a monk. If you didnt go crane then u cant really use this combo til u get the capstone, or unless u gimped urslef and use fire stance.

Now, I never see a monk running around with Crane. Monk, tons, Tortoise, some. Crane...I have yet to see someone with it. Maybe I need to find more monks....

And there is no reason someone cannot use the same combo if they didn't take Crane. I'm only a lv 16 Drow with Tortoise path, and I'm STABLE at 40 ki. I can get up to 260ish ki, and I get there pretty fast. Even with lowbie mobs, I can still run around spamming QP for a while.

One other thing. How would it be gimping yourself if you use Fire Stance? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a Dex build, and have Wind tier III. But many of the monks I talk to say that endgame, a Str build is as viable and often more viable than a Dex build. So, care to explain your opinion a bit?

[Delacroix21]

Want an easy answer? Quivering palm NEVER beats Stunning blow. This is from an end game perspective.


Any mob with so much health that its faster to instant kill then stun kill, probably has too high of a Fort save for quivering palm to work (namely Elite and Epic end game mobs). This is not a problem with the monk class itself but rather with DDO as a whole. What FEW combat feats there are (and spells) rarely if ever work at end game elite and epic. Its sad but true.:(


But hey, weighted always works! Even if you dont get the killing blow, you are certainly helping the party by stunning the mob the barb beats down.


P.S. Fire stance never ever ever ever beats wind stance for dps... +2 damage per swing vs +25% attack speed (+30% if madstoned)? Its not even close! As for Ramseses and guards, they are probably better then nothing, but you wont see them proc much (at least I dont) but I guess there isnt much else to wear! Once you get just 1 ToD ring with Holy burst, unarmed really starts to be fun.


P.P.S Ramseses try TR as a fighter and tell me if it effects your stunning blow DC (Dwarven/WF tactics does). If so that might be nice!


P.P.P.S. Forgot to say= A capped monk with Henshin necklace is allot more fun!

[QuantumFX]

Ok so, ive heard that at end game monks become very weak in the damage department,

They do… when the monk is played by an incompetent moron. Are they less than a lot of melee types? Sure. Are they as bad as “everyone” (translation: the incompetent morons I mentioned earlier) says? No.


how can i make it so im still an effective killer?

Playing a monk is a lot like playing a caster. You need to pay attention to the battlefield but you also need to pay attention to your U.I.

Like a caster you need to manage your power supply (SP for a caster; ki for a monk).

You also need to keep track of how well things are working. If something is saving vs your special attack all the time - stop using it! (Same applies to a caster)

You have to pay attention to cooldowns as well. If you want to bring the hurt then you want to make sure you’re only hitting your keys when something is off timer. This means mixing and matching your special attacks.

Another similarity between a monk and a caster is the need for potency effects. True, you only need Superior Potency I type effects but when you turn 2d20 into 2d20 x1.5 it’s worth the cash and inventory slots.

Timing helps too. A lot of people don’t realize that, when used correctly, 5 ki often results in 2 elemental strikes. And they also don’t realize that while Wind Stance is the best STANCE, Mountain Strikes are the best STRIKES. (on a double strike on a stunned baddie Wind Strike 4 results in 4d20 {42 average} extra damage while Mountain Strike 4 results in 64 +2d10 {75 average} extra damage.)

Creative mixing and matching of your handwraps with Tower of Despair rings enchanted with DPS effects. Weighted 5% handwraps make you everyone’s best friend.

[Mumu720]

Ok so i also understand that at end game a lot of specials for the monk like qp and sf stop working pretty much entirely cause of the immunities that the monsters have, if im a wis/dex based halfling monk will i still be effective with good gear? My stats are 14/16/14/8/17(im putting lvl points here)/8. I plan on putting all lvl points in wis, possible 1 in con at lvl 18 then if im lucky enough for a +3 con tome i can get tier 4 earth, unless thats a bad idea? Can some one give me some feed back?

[Rameses]

Ok so i also understand that at end game a lot of specials for the monk like qp and sf stop working pretty much entirely cause of the immunities that the monsters have, if im a wis/dex based halfling monk will i still be effective with good gear? My stats are 14/16/14/8/17(im putting lvl points here)/8. I plan on putting all lvl points in wis, possible 1 in con at lvl 18 then if im lucky enough for a +3 con tome i can get tier 4 earth, unless thats a bad idea? Can some one give me some feed back?

i'd suggest adding 2 level points to your Dex to be eligable for Teir 4 Wind Stance: requires 18 natural dex. (which at this point is almost a most at end game)
Beyond that you will be fine with the stats as listed.

I am, Rameses!

[timidobserver]

Timing helps too. A lot of people don’t realize that, when used correctly, 5 ki often results in 2 elemental strikes.

Didn't this get fixed recently?

[Quijonsith]

Didn't this get fixed recently?

Nope. I still get two elemental strikes off of one key press.

[lizardo666]

Hmm, so if QP etc is garbage at endgame (which makes sense due to all the immunities) shouldn't a monk maybe not use their L16/20 stat points elsewhere?

[lyeman]

Hmm, so if QP etc is garbage at endgame (which makes sense due to all the immunities) shouldn't a monk maybe not use their L16/20 stat points elsewhere?

There are those of us who argue that putting any level points into WIS is a mistake.

[Rumbaar]

Also {SF}15ki > 30ki{QP} needed to trigger.

[DarkFlash]

I <3 my human healing amp monk.

2x heals from spells, 2x heal from FoL, 3x heal from Healing Ki, 2x heals from dream edges vampirism. (Good if you are taking hits or doing epic dungeons without healer/with hireling healer/with wiz who can use scrolls)

Add in weighted5% + 4x bursts after getting ToD rings.