Blind Invites are so much fun now

[Zippo]

that I have adopted the new philosophy of accepting the invite and continuing on with what I was doing. Even right now as I currently type this I sit in a blind invite group that's running whatever they are running and I continue on my slayers I was working on. :D


http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Chaotic%20Neutral.jpg
So much easier this way, much less stress.

[knightgf]

At least you got a group of people to talk to.

Even so, if I needed a group of people to talk to while I was doing something, all I gotta do is add to the chaos in the general chat, which is really quite fun. From DBZ references, to talking smack about Turbine and giving misleading advice, its all fun and games. Till the GM comes in and tells everyone to shut up. Lol.

[Zippo]

At least you got a group of people to talk to.

Even so, if I needed a group of people to talk to while I was doing something, all I gotta do is add to the chaos in the general chat, which is really quite fun. From DBZ references, to talking smack about Turbine and giving misleading advice, its all fun and games. Till the GM comes in and tells everyone to shut up. Lol.

There is that option too. ;)



and for those who don't get it for some reason, blind invites are NOT a good way to put together a group and you're going to end up on more peoples squelch lists that way.

[UnderwearModel]

I have never seen a GM come into any of the chat channels.

Of course, I do not stick around long enough nor do I partake in the name calling. I use to sit in trade channel and counter offer the ridiculous numbers being bandied about but that got tedious and I just delete all TRADE and ADVICE channels.

I loved how I gave advice and then it turned into an argument.

[Horrorscope]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

[Visty]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

that is not a blind invite, that is a tell
and a very polite one tbh, id bet that is something ppl like to get

[Evilnok]

Haha thats the same thing I starting doing when I get blind invites. I just accept and keep doing whatever I was doing.

[Zippo]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

To me (this is my opinion not necessarily anyone elses even though I have seen a few people say the same) the sending a tell to ask is good way to go at that point.

[calvinklien]

--

[Horrorscope]

that is not a blind invite, that is a tell
and a very polite one tbh, id bet that is something ppl like to get

Cool, that is how I roll. I have seen people consider that a blind, I mention to them "How is it possible to break the ice without any acceptable opener?". I throw this out there just to see, because some people are ultra rigid and imo never comprehended the overall gist of this.

To those that just send out and invite, I wonder if education on the proper method is just lacking.

I also then consider age, my son has all good intentions but he's a bit young sometimes on understanding things like this. He would be the person to send a blind invite just thinking everyone is in happy go lucky land and if not teamed are ready to join and not worry so much if he got a blind and wasn't ready, he would just ignore it and not let it bother him, it is a pretty simple thing to deal with. In some ways I applaud the overall meaning of that, his method works well if there weren't so many people wound tightly. He's a person that would accept blind invites when just roaming, jump in, assume the best and go for it. Really that is the way J.e.s.u.s. would play it.

[Sirea]

funny, that's how i weed out all the etiquette nazi's. :D but to each his own and as you said it's all fun and games.

The what do you do when all the good players have squelched you? You'll come to the forums complaining about how you can never get groups then when you do get groups they're full of noobs and gimps :rolleyes:

[Zippo]

Cool, that is how I roll. I have seen people consider that a blind, I mention to them "How is it possible to break the ice without any acceptable opener?". I throw this out there just to see, because some people are ultra rigid and imo never comprehended the overall gist of this.

To those that just send out and invite, I wonder if education on the proper method is just lacking.

I also then consider age, my son has all good intentions but he's a bit young sometimes on understanding things like this. He would be the person to send a blind invite just thinking everyone is in happy go lucky land and if not teamed are ready to join and not worry so much if he got a blind and wasn't ready, he would just ignore it and not let it bother him, it is a pretty simple thing to deal with. In some ways I applaud the overall meaning of that, his method works well if there weren't so many people wound tightly. He's a person that would accept blind invites when just roaming, jump in, assume the best and go for it. Really that is the way J.e.s.u.s. would play it.

It is fairly safe to assume that most people are ok with a tell asking first (there will be some even against that but you can't win em all), it is the random blind invite out of the blue that tweak a lot of people so much. And maybe some of it is age and/or lack of proper etiquette understanding but at some point something needs to be said.

[Psyker]

I've been doing this as well, the most fun was while I was waiting for a good group to show up on the social panel I was doing some slayers and rares in T/R, got blind invited to a group and accepted. They see me looting some chests from rares and ask where I am, I tell them I'm still in TR when are you guys going to get here, they ask me to leave group and start accusing me of being rude because I accepted their invite. Sorry I can't leave group cause I'm technically in a dungeon, but you all can recall from your dungeon and regroup if you want. Lots of fun!

[Psyker]

On a side note could this be considered harassment since I joined a group with no intention of playing with them?

[LordMond]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

I for one would have ZERO problems with this sort of a group invite. Were you on my server and you asked me to join in this way, you can bet I'd do so.

As for the grouping comment at the end....I think that DDO, for various reasons, sure seems to compel folks to create characters that are solo-capable first and foremost and group-oriented secondly (if at all in some cases). Games with smaller player bases tend to fall into this situation, and I think, comparatively at least, DDO has a small(ish) player base. So people build toons that are able to solo so that they can make at least some progress while waiting for a group that needs them to form or while they are waiting to fill the group they started. I know I did this with my FTR/CLR.

You're absolutely right regarding players not using the LFG tab as often as they should. It doesn't seem like all that bad a system, but it's definitely underutilized.

[rjedi]

This is what i have dont many occasions :rolleyes: oh well guess someone will learn to send a tell or just use the LFM

[calvinklien]

--

[eonfreon]

It is fairly safe to assume that most people are ok with a tell asking first (there will be some even against that but you can't win em all), it is the random blind invite out of the blue that tweak a lot of people so much. And maybe some of it is age and/or lack of proper etiquette understanding but at some point something needs to be said.

True. That's why I just decline the invite if I'm not inclined to accept it, usually send a polite tell (because I usually assume naivety more maliciousness) explaining why it could be problematic to continue in his approach, and go about my business. Usually I take a swig out of my beverage at that point.

If Turbine could simply make the Invite Popup less intrusive then there wouldn't be any chance of screwing up a player who got the blind invite.

This method of "learning 'em a lesson" is just going to backfire. It'll just create even more schisms between players.

It's far better to teach proper etiquette then it is to "learn em one".

[Lorien_the_First_One]

funny, that's how i weed out all the etiquette nazi's. :D but to each his own and as you said it's all fun and games.

If by "ediquette nazi's" you mean anyone who is polite or anyone who probably understands anything about the game, then yes, I'm sure your blind invite method succeeds. It probably also does a great job of ensuring you won't get invited to any groups at higher levels

[Rabbi_Hordo]

funny, that's how i weed out all the etiquette nazi's. :D but to each his own and as you said it's all fun and games.

I don't look at it as etiquette...I look at a blind invite like I would Cult Members knocking on my door at all times asking me to convert to their version of religion...I don't use a gun, I just shut the door...I use the /squelch to shut the door...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Had a blind invite hit me a couple hours ago. I was in the harbor on my level 18 cleaning up a bit of favor. I got a blind invite and accepted assuming it was someone I knew. After accepting I asked if I knew them and they didn't answer. Two others joined the party and dropped after so swearing in quick succession. Then the inviter says "come with me". I asked where and he didn't answer so out of curriousity I followed. He entered a quest and then typed "come in come in". As it happens that was on my favor cleanup list so I hopped in and pretty much solo'd the quest. He got REALLY mad at the end of the quest for some reason when he didn't get xp. I told him since he invited me he must have known my level and I assumed he was also only looking for favor... he swore and dropped group :cool:

[Zippo]

True. That's why I just decline the invite if I'm not inclined to accept it, usually send a polite tell (because I usually assume naivety more maliciousness) explaining why it could be problematic to continue in his approach, and go about my business. Usually I take a swig out of my beverage at that point.

If Turbine could simply make the Invite Popup less intrusive then there wouldn't be any chance of screwing up a player who got the blind invite.

This method of "learning 'em a lesson" is just going to backfire. It'll just create even more schisms between players.

It's far better to teach proper etiquette then it is to "learn em one".

I've tried that to a frustrating end. Which is why it has come to the "they are more fun now"

[Sirea]

i have no fear of the scenario you've described ever happening. i'll ALWAYS find groups of people who are fun to play with. :) and if they are noobs, i'll show 'em what i know, and give 'em some platinum and a cool weapon if i don't need it. I'm a relative noob. I'd rather play with a noob than someone who comes to the forum to let all the DDO world know " I WILL BOOT YOU IF" or " I WILL SQUELCH YOU IF" my point is, you "I WILL BOOT YOU IF" people seem to think you're the only game in town, you (in general, not you personally Sirea) You seem to think I won't ever figure out how to beat quests and find cool gear. I assure you, i will.

Still though, the problem people have with blind invites is that some consider it just as rude as someone barging into your house and assuming you want to go somewhere with them. We try to tell people that we have different etiquette rules in DDO, a different "social code" so to say. What is considered acceptable in some games might not be in another game, the same can be said for different cultures, for example. some people choose to ignore this advice, thinking "oh, well why should I listen to the vets, this is how things were done in my last game, so it'll do just fine here as well". DDO has great built in tools for groups, like the LFM board, all we are trying to do is persuade new players to use them. Some choose more drastic measures of "learnin' 'em a thing or two" like the OP and his sympathizers. The message is the same though: "This isn't the way things work here".

[Zenako]

There is a huge and fundamental difference between a Bline Invite and a Tell.

The tell shows up in your chat box and does NOT affect gameplay at all.

An INVITE shows up as a pop-up screen that interupts gameplay and must be addressed before anything else can proceed. (Kinda like what also happens with the Share Quest pop-up window...

That is PART of the reason so many players are vocal against Blind Invites, it could get their character killed. Does it happen often, nah, odds are unlikely, but I have had it happen in some dangerous situations where having to close out/decline the invite made it a tougher situation.

[eonfreon]

I've tried that to a frustrating end. Which is why it has come to the "they are more fun now"

Hey that's cool. Only problem I see is you're just adding to the animosity and your tactics could backfire.
Just decline and squelch.
I understand it can be frustrating to teach young people. It often is very frustrating. I don't think you have the personality traits to be a teacher. That's fine. It requires patience and a casual attitude towards frustration.

I think tactics like the ones you espouse will just lead to Turbine having to get involved.
Silly really.
Well, hopefully when they get involved it won't have any adverse effect on my gaming. Doubt it will. Since I'm on neither side of this hair-raising controversy, I doubt I'll pull any penalties.

[eonfreon]

There is a huge and fundamental difference between a Bline Invite and a Tell.

The tell shows up in your chat box and does NOT affect gameplay at all.

An INVITE shows up as a pop-up screen that interupts gameplay and must be addressed before anything else can proceed. (Kinda like what also happens with the Share Quest pop-up window...

That is PART of the reason so many players are vocal against Blind Invites, it could get their character killed. Does it happen often, nah, odds are unlikely, but I have had it happen in some dangerous situations where having to close out/decline the invite made it a tougher situation.

Right, which is why when I get these blind invites, whether I decline or not, I tell them about the consequences of their actions. I've found most just don't know. Some take a little attitude, think I'm preaching, then they run with me awhile, and realize I "aint that bad", and start to listen.

Works better then messing with them and ****ing them off just because you're ****ed off.

[phalaeo]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

+1 rep for "getting it"

[calvinklien]

--

[Horrorscope]

This thread was setup to fail, however it seemed to start off very level headed and has held up. But we did get into "Some people think it's like a cult knocking at your door", "Some think it's like barging into your house". Well for those nameless "SOME" that are really offended, they need help. The one gentleman that mentioned the story of being blind invited, accepted it, ran it because he needed favor, but was really totally chaotic, imo he handled it pretty good", what I feel happens there is he's playing with a very uninformed player in general. Or perhaps someone rpg'ing and is chaotic, lol.

To those saying the popup causes this unwanted stress so we should raise the bar on acceptable social behavior within our beloved game. Let it be clearly known that this is what Turbine wants otherwise they wouldn't do it. I agree an invite in chat is less obtrusive then a popup and I would prefer it myself. But this is what Turbine created. There is no law saying they couldn't have coded all invites to be based within the chat mechanism. So even if you do get a blind, it's in chat and out of the way, you can react upon it or not. There must be some psych reasons why companies do these things. Perhaps they have seen great friendships created over a random blind. They know it irks some, but they may have stats to prove it garners more grouping, or that some % prefer this (my son). Things like that.

All this written from a guy that never just blind invites, but also looks at why it could happen, measures the real damage done and acts accordingly by not getting so bent having to click "Decline" on a blind invite. The effort it took to write this is (seriously) a years effort of clicking "Decline" on blind invites for me.

Lots of pent up anger exhibited in many threads over pretty trivial things, imo that is a better subject to investigate.

[Zippo]

Hey that's cool. Only problem I see is you're just adding to the animosity and your tactics could backfire.
Just decline and squelch.
I understand it can be frustrating to teach young people. It often is very frustrating. I don't think you have the personality traits to be a teacher. That's fine. It requires patience and a casual attitude towards frustration.

I think tactics like the ones you espouse will just lead to Turbine having to get involved.
Silly really.
Well, hopefully when they get involved it won't have any adverse effect on my gaming. Doubt it will. Since I'm on neither side of this hair-raising controversy, I doubt I'll pull any penalties.

Without derailing my own thread too much I will just disagree with your assumption of my teaching ablities. That aside isn't the point. The point being that they are by nature in the game considered rude by at the very least a vocal cross section of the player base, and some may be even more vocal then me with verbal lashings of the sorts that could make a sailor blush. I am just taking the stand point of inconvenience as a vessel of understanding for them.

[eonfreon]

me: i got nothin' but LOVE for my peeps. if you are into this game, then we are of like mines, and into the same "hobby"? i count you ALL bruthas and sistahs.

LOL

But seriously, let's not bog this down into "us vs them".
There's a simple reason why we don't like Blind Invites.
The Pop-up shows up without warning and in the middle of the screen and interferes with you. Which can can "devastating" effects.
For one, even in a video game we don't like to "die".
And if you send a blind invite to a Perma-Death character and he dies as a result, well, most of their rules say their dead for good and have to reroll. Not fun for them.

Just giving you a heads up why even us casual happy-go-lucky types frown upon it.

[calvinklien]

--

[Horrorscope]

Right, which is why when I get these blind invites, whether I decline or not, I tell them about the consequences of their actions. I've found most just don't know. Some take a little attitude, think I'm preaching, then they run with me awhile, and realize I "aint that bad", and start to listen.

Works better then messing with them and ****ing them off just because you're ****ed off.

Eon we seem to be from the same ilk on several of these subjects over the past few days. Instead of ATTACKING, we look at the situation GRACIOUSLY, we also measure many of these things as not HARD for us to deal with. Why? Because it just seems like an even higher road to take instead of thinking we are going to raise everyone to a higher level, something in our control vs something out of our control and just realizing a situation for what it is. The thing is we can spin the wheels here in the forum, but whomever we are talking about have a very small chance to ever see this. They don't dig into the game this deeply.

I really think there are a lot of reasons and most not bad why some of these nuisances happen in game from other players. Baby has never been backed into a corner in this game that she couldn't easily get out of, as the griefing is fairly low in this game. Love thy fellow gamer and breathe, assume any minor bad thing is your 12 year old niece not understanding.

To Calvin: "i got nothin' but LOVE for my peeps. if you are into this game, then we are of like mines, and into the same "hobby"? i count you ALL bruthas and sistahs." AMEN Brotha.

[eonfreon]

Without derailing my own thread too much I will just disagree with your assumption of my teaching ablities. That aside isn't the point. The point being that they are by nature in the game considered rude by at the very least a vocal cross section of the player base, and some may be even more vocal then me with verbal lashings of the sorts that could make a sailor blush. I am just taking the stand point of inconvenience as a vessel of understanding for them.

And you're perpetuating a "us vs them" mentality.
So no, I think my assessment of your teaching skills is pretty spot on.
"Tough love" only gets through to a small amount of people in a gaming environment.

Do as you like. Get whatever satisfaction you need by your methods. However, by coming to the forums and bragging about it you're adding fuel to the fire. Now Turbine is going to have to decide what to do as Vets use a "counter-griefing" method.

You see, unintentionally causing grief and intentionally causing grief is what separates "mistakes" from "griefing".

If your methods are truly therapeutic for you then by all means, carry on. But you're not teaching a darn thing, you're just "learning em a lesson". THey may learn from your method, or they may just harbor resentment.
Either way, I hope I'm sure it soothes your soul.
Best of luck to you.

[Zippo]

And you're perpetuating a "us vs them" mentality.
So no, I think my assessment of your teaching skills is pretty spot on.
"Tough love" only gets through to a small amount of people in a gaming environment.

Do as you like. Get whatever satisfaction you need by your methods. However, by coming to the forums and bragging about it you're adding fuel to the fire. Now Turbine is going to have to decide what to do as Vets use a "counter-griefing" method.

You see, unintentionally causing grief and intentionally causing grief is what separates "mistakes" from "griefing".

If your methods are truly therapeutic for you then by all means, carry on. But you're not teaching a darn thing, you're just "learning em a lesson". THey may learn from your method, or they may just harbor resentment.
Either way, I hope I'm sure it soothes your soul.
Best of luck to you.


And again I will just have to disagree with your assumption of my teaching abilities, mostly because you have no idea what I have or have not done in regards to that. With that I will say... well I'll just quote the author here:




Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.



If you have tried something over and over and over again to no avail the next logical thing to do is to try a new approach. THIS is my new approach. Instead of telling them it is rude and why, now we are showing them. As it would seem others have come to the same conclusion. For the record it isn't bragging about it either but you can assume what you would like.

[eonfreon]

And again I will just have to disagree with your assumption of my teaching abilities, mostly because you have no idea what I have or have not done in regards to that. With that I will say... well I'll just quote the author here:



If you have tried something over and over and over again to no avail the next logical thing to do is to try a new approach. THIS is my new approach. Instead of telling them it is rude and why, now we are showing them. As it would seem others have come to the same conclusion. For the record it isn't bragging about it either but you can assume what you would like.

LOL.
You really quoted Albert Einstein to back your point?
LOL

You are right, it is insane for me to talk logic and sense to you. I'll give it a rest.
I think you take things far too personally.

BTW, the quote really doesn't apply, because that only works in scenarios with far less variables. The assumption that it "never works so I should stop trying that" doesn't quite work when dealing with something as variable as another human being, especially when you're dealing with multiple human beings. It's akin to having dealing with a spoiled 10 yer old and then assuming all 10 yr olds are like that. That would be insane indeed.

But you're right, if your communication skills are such that when you tell people about the mistakes they've made, that they either don't/can't listen and do better next time, then it would indeed be insane to continue.

If this method of teaching is the only recourse left to you, then carry on.

[Sirea]

LOL.
You really quoted Albert Einstein to back your point?
LOL

You are right, it is insane for me to talk logic and sense to you. I'll give it a rest.
I think you take things far too personally.

BTW, the quote really doesn't apply, because that only works in scenarios with far less variables. The assumption that it "never works so I should stop trying that" doesn't quite work when dealing with something as variable as another human being.

But you're right, if your communication skills are such that when you tell people about the mistakes they've made, that they either don't/can't listen and do better next time, then it would be indeed insane to continue.

If this method of teaching is the only recourse left to you, then carry on.

What you call logic and sense is really just your opinion on the matter. Zippo's opinion obviously differs from yours. I think you two have come to an impasse.

He may be taking things too personally, but you getting so worked up about it isn't much better.

[Strakeln]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

That seems entirely reasonable to me. Much more polite than I normally receive... typically I just get "<Quest>?", and that doesn't bother me at all. I'd say you're a-ok using this method.

[Strakeln]

I don't look at it as etiquette...I look at a blind invite like I would Cult Members knocking on my door at all times asking me to convert to their version of religion...I don't use a gun, I just shut the door...I use the /squelch to shut the door...

Ah, but have you tried using the gun instead?

/don't see many J. Witnesses around 'ere anymore :D:p

[eonfreon]

What you call logic and sense is really just your opinion on the matter. Zippo's opinion obviously differs from yours. I think you two have come to an impasse.

He may be taking things too personally, but you getting so worked up about it isn't much better.

I'm not getting worked up about it. I'm expressing my own opinion and having a laugh while doing so.
Fine, I won't speak in such absolutes in the future. Rather then saying this form of "tough love" is counterproductive, I'll just say that I merely think it is counterproductive.

[Sirea]

That seems entirely reasonable to me. Much more polite than I normally receive... typically I just get "<Quest>?", and that doesn't bother me at all. I'd say you're a-ok using this method.

Whenever I get a tell that's just, for example, "crucible" I usually send a tell back saying something like "yep, it's a quest in gianthold, one of the three flagging quests for gianthold tor, what about it? :)"

[Sirea]

I'm not getting worked up about it. I'm expressing my own opinion and having a laugh while doing so.
Fine, I won't speak in such absolutes in the future. Rather then saying this form of "tough love" is counterproductive, I'll just say that I merely think it is counterproductive.

No, I think you simply need to know when to walk away from an argument ;)

[eonfreon]

No, I think you simply need to know when to walk away from an argument ;)

I do ;). Unfortunately I'm stuck here.
But in retrospect I see my own mistake. I made it more personal then needed by calling into question Zippo's teaching capabilities, when really I don't know him. He could be and likely is a swell guy in the game. As capable as any of us.

Really, what I am calling into question is this new method of "tough love teaching", not Zippo's overall capabilities, and that was an error on my part. Considering what types of arguments I've seen Zippo engaged in on these boards, I really should have picked my words more carefully.

And also considering what I've seen before, I think we are having a rather civil discussion.

But for my part, to help defuse any resentment, i do apologize to Zippo.

While I think that this thread is silly, petty, and will simply add to the headaches over all, that is my opinion about one thing that I disagree with on Zippo's part.

ANd it should hardly be an indictment of his capabilities or reasoning skills.

[Zippo]

LOL.
You really quoted Albert Einstein to back your point?
LOL

You are right, it is insane for me to talk logic and sense to you. I'll give it a rest.
I think you take things far too personally.

BTW, the quote really doesn't apply, because that only works in scenarios with far less variables. The assumption that it "never works so I should stop trying that" doesn't quite work when dealing with something as variable as another human being, especially when you're dealing with multiple human beings. It's akin to having dealing with a spoiled 10 yer old and then assuming all 10 yr olds are like that. That would be insane indeed.

But you're right, if your communication skills are such that when you tell people about the mistakes they've made, that they either don't/can't listen and do better next time, then it would indeed be insane to continue.

If this method of teaching is the only recourse left to you, then carry on.


If you want to continue to toss insults around I can start to get mean about it but I would prefer to save that for a different thread at a different time.

[eonfreon]

Your having to resort to insults only shows that you are the one lacking the social skills needed for teaching anyone anything. I understand logic and sense very well. You apparently seem oblivious to analytical thinking though. No if you want to continue to toss insults around I can start to get mean about it but I would prefer to save that for a different thread at a different time.

You are absolutely right.
I say this not because I fear you'll get mean. But because you are right.
As much as I loathe your method, I should not have insulted you.

I really don't see the point of your methods.
But really, I see little harm coming from it. It will likely not teach anything that you couldn't have taught by simply saying something.
But since it brings you satisfaction and does little to harm others, then it will have minimal ill effects.

Be wary however, it can backfire. Remember "griefing" is all about the intent.

Edit: typos

[Burradin]

that is not a blind invite, that is a tell
and a very polite one tbh, id bet that is something ppl like to get

WRONG, I tell them to put up LFM and wait, that is what it is used for and if I wanted to group, I would click on one. Bad advice.

Do Not send blind tells to people you don't know either. Because you are interrupting their game play and fun. Be considerate and leave them alone.

[eonfreon]

WRONG, I tell them to put up LFM and wait, that is what it is used for and if I wanted to group, I would click on one. Bad advice.

Do Not send blind tells to people you don't know either. Because you are interrupting their game play and fun. Be considerate and leave them alone.

I get blind tells all the time. It's usually "Shroud?" or "Hound?" or even "WW?
Keep them coming.
I can deal with the annoyance of the "ding" sound.
Heck, sometimes I'm even rude enough that I don't reply and leave them hanging ;).

[Strakeln]

Whenever I get a tell that's just, for example, "crucible" I usually send a tell back saying something like "yep, it's a quest in gianthold, one of the three flagging quests for gianthold tor, what about it? :)"


WRONG, I tell them to put up LFM and wait, that is what it is used for and if I wanted to group, I would click on one. Bad advice.

Do Not send blind tells to people you don't know either. Because you are interrupting their game play and fun. Be considerate and leave them alone.

Sirea, I think that when they give a shortened tell, such as "Crucible?", they're trying to limit their intrusion... as some folks, like Burradin here, feel that a blind tell is just as bad as a blind invite. So I see the short-hand tell, it makes me think that the person is trying to be extra courteous.

[Zippo]

WRONG, I tell them to put up LFM and wait, that is what it is used for and if I wanted to group, I would click on one. Bad advice.

Do Not send blind tells to people you don't know either. Because you are interrupting their game play and fun. Be considerate and leave them alone.

I get your standpoint and I'm not going to try and change it but myself I would rather get a blind tell asking me IF I wanted to do something rather then a blind invite assuming that I do

[Sirea]

Sirea, I think that when they give a shortened tell, such as "Crucible?", they're trying to limit their intrusion... as some folks, like Burradin here, feel that a blind tell is just as bad as a blind invite. So I see the short-hand tell, it makes me think that the person is trying to be extra courteous.

Don't misunderstand me, my responses to tells like that are meant to be humorous, not condescending. While I would prefer some sort of sentence like "would you like to help us out in crucible?" I would much rather get a tell than a blind invite. I have no problem whatsoever with /tells asking me whether I want to run a quest, even if I rarely agree to it because I'm usually either in the middle of a quest myself, or waiting for a raid to get started in one of my userchats, or waiting for my husband to log on so we can run something together.

[Aaxeyu]

Sometimes when I get blind invites from random people I run into the nearest instance or wilderness area so they can't kick me. Then I wait until they regroup.

Random tells I usually ignore, but sometimes I reply "Nope" or "If I wanted to join I would have used the LFM panel".

[Burradin]

I just find it upsetting that to stop the idiots (yes, I said this because they are not using the tools built in the game to accomplish grouping), that I have to go anon which now makes it so that friends outside of guild can't find me. We all know that a high percentage of those that have been around a while use the friends list as their do not group with list as there is not a good mechanism for that. I simply find the fact that adding a friend on one toon does not keep it across account quite annoying as I don't find it appealing to try to keep exporting and importing the list across a dozen toons.

I also find that most sending these blind tells think their quest or what they want done is more important than my goals, which is currently leveling my reincarnate. I also find that I can do much better getting that extra XP not running in groups where the above mentioned idiots are going to die as they are not capable of running quests smartly.

[Horrorscope]

WRONG, I tell them to put up LFM and wait, that is what it is used for and if I wanted to group, I would click on one. Bad advice.

Do Not send blind tells to people you don't know either. Because you are interrupting their game play and fun. Be considerate and leave them alone.

There you are, I know there are some of you out there, I hit yah about 1 in 20, just so you know your pair size. From my exp from this and other games, in general this is a very anti-social behavior from a social heavy game. Most people never reply, as they shouldn't per the tell. Some do anyways to say thanks for asking and some join in and are glad I asked. Then there is the very few that come back biting. Honestly your my fav kind, I forward it to the North Pole. You say WRONG, but you are like 1 in 6 here and the other 5 thought it was ok, so really if someone has to be wrong who is i?

I agree in one regards, if everyone understood and used the methods in this game there would be no need. But like all the other games, there just seems to be a fair percentage that just floats out there, secretly wanting to do something.

To say I interrupt the game for a singular tell also tells me the grumpy level of a person.

There was a person I grouped with last night that fits this bill perfectly. Also he didn't have his mic/chat on. I mentioned if he could turn it on. He came back with a new one "He's deaf", yes I have to be compasionate and leave it at that and did, but I did doubt it, he was such a sour puss. You were pretty much out of bounds reaching out to him in any way and agrees with Burradin, do not contact me, talk to me or touch me in anyway. I thought to myself, if you were deaf still turning it on wouldn't hurt, lolz. This falls under the same catergory when someone butchers a post, they come back everytime that English is my 4th or so language, I always tend to find the smartest people in the world on the internets.

I will say the biggest disapointment coming back is 1 in 10 people talk in PUG's now, were it used to be over 50% imo. Wow talk about sucking some fun out of the game, I love a chatty group, adds so much.

[Gremmlynn]

Personally, I don't mind tells. At least a tell is capable of giving me basic information like what the quest is and reflects much more positively on the sender. Why would I want to join the group of someone who is to lazy to even send a tell?

As to the OPs teaching method. Well I would reserve that for the idiots who couldn't figure out from the first two declines that I'm not interested. As an aside, for those who advocate sending a tell as to how blind invites are rude, I've tried that. Standard response is "What do u mean"? At this point I just assume anyone who sends blind invites is just to stupid to understand or to lazy to worry about the concept of rudeness since they all seem to be either to stupid or to lazy to correctly spell the word "you".

[Letrii]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

I would not do this, if someone is looking for a group they will browse the LFM and/or use LFG tag. Now sending tells to people that have LFG on is perfectly alright.

[Letrii]

There you are, I know there are some of you out there, I hit yah about 1 in 20, just so you know your pair size. From my exp from this and other games, in general this is a very anti-social behavior from a social heavy game. Most people never reply, as they shouldn't per the tell. Some do anyways to say thanks for asking and some join in and are glad I asked. Then there is the very few that come back biting. Honestly your my fav kind, I forward it to the North Pole. You say WRONG, but you are like 1 in 6 here and the other 5 thought it was ok, so really if someone has to be wrong who is i?

I agree in one regards, if everyone understood and used the methods in this game there would be no need. But like all the other games, there just seems to be a fair percentage that just floats out there, secretly wanting to do something.

To say I interrupt the game for a singular tell also tells me the grumpy level of a person.

There was a person I grouped with last night that fits this bill perfectly. Also he didn't have his mic/chat on. I mentioned if he could turn it on. He came back with a new one "He's deaf", yes I have to be compasionate and leave it at that and did, but I did doubt it, he was such a sour puss. You were pretty much out of bounds reaching out to him in any way and agrees with Burradin, do not contact me, talk to me or touch me in anyway. I thought to myself, if you were deaf still turning it on wouldn't hurt, lolz. This falls under the same catergory when someone butchers a post, they come back everytime that English is my 4th or so language, I always tend to find the smartest people in the world on the internets.

I will say the biggest disapointment coming back is 1 in 10 people talk in PUG's now, were it used to be over 50% imo. Wow talk about sucking some fun out of the game, I love a chatty group, adds so much.

Having VC on if deaf is a bit useless and having it off lets people that pay attention know he can't hear you. Btw, do you play on Thelanis by chance?

[Kalari]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

I think thats fine at least your looking and seeing if someone sees me in a tavern not doing anything and sends a tell thats fine. But the who panel lists generally where a person is, and if you see a person not in a group in a dungeon or explorer area common sense should tell ya (not you Horrorscope just in general) that the person is soloing leave them alone.

But people will send blind invites anyway "hey that person isnt in a group hyuck!"

Its aggravating and people go "well go anonymous.." sure thats fine then you forget put up a group and have your anon so people are like "why should I join a person who is hiding?" Its one thing to get random tells its easier for me to respond once im done to them "sorry busy or sure give me a min." But blind invites are rude period if I wanted to be in your group especially if you have an lfm up I know how to click join. I have heard everything from "we were just trying to get a group together more quickly.. well thems the breaks in the game sometimes you have to wait if you want your perfect party sometimes people arent wanting to do the quests you want. You either wait or go with what you got but to try to get people to join ya just because they arent in a group by sending an invite is rude. That goes for Guild inviters to come on common sense would tell you that you shouldnt just extend a guild invite to some stranger just cause they ran by you without a tag under their name...

Guess im just waiting for common sense to sink in with some folks.

[Kalari]

I get blind tells all the time. It's usually "Shroud?" or "Hound?" or even "WW?
Keep them coming.
I can deal with the annoyance of the "ding" sound.
Heck, sometimes I'm even rude enough that I don't reply and leave them hanging ;).

My favorite is TOD?

My guildy got hit up so much that he finally started sending tells back "My name is not TOD its <insert whatever character hes was on> back at them hehe.

I still dont mind tells save the fact that people really need to look where a person is. Nothing like being a healer during TOD and having someone spam me with tells asking me if im busy and can I answer some questions for them...x.x sigh

[Zippo]

Guess im just waiting for common sense to sink in with some folks.


http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Common%20Sense.jpg

This one work? :D

[Kalari]

http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Common%20Sense.jpg

This one work? :D

LOL darn it Zippo got to spread it around before being able to pos ya again :D

I loved it when my DM would go "are you sure you want to do that.." hehe always made the hairs stand up cause you knew something bad was gonna happen lol.

[Letrii]

http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Common%20Sense.jpg

This one work? :D

Too subtle.

[Zippo]

LOL darn it Zippo got to spread it around before being able to pos ya again :D

I loved it when my DM would go "are you sure you want to do that.." hehe always made the hairs stand up cause you knew something bad was gonna happen lol.

There is always this one too:

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/Kothlim/Dungeons%20and%20Dragons%20Motivationals/commonsense2.jpg

[Zippo]

There is the other problem with blind invites too.

You may end up with this:
http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Lfg.jpg

[Horrorscope]

Having VC on if deaf is a bit useless and having it off lets people that pay attention know he can't hear you. Btw, do you play on Thelanis by chance?

Yes to Thelanis. Fair point in the deaf on/off reasoning.

[Letrii]

I didn't play last night, but your description of deaf person that arguing against sending tells to people not LFG sounds like me, lol. Were you in my group in House K quests a few days ago?

[katana_one]

One more option at your disposal regarding blind invites is to go into your options and turn off the ability to accept them.

You never see the blind invite, but in your chat panel you will see green text that says "You decline XXXX's invitation to join his party."

You're not anonymous, so your friends can still find you and send you /tells. And if you forget your invites are turned off, you will still see who tried to invite you and then you can decide if you want to turn invites back on long enough to group.

Seems to be working well for me so far.

[Sirea]

One more option at your disposal regarding blind invites is to go into your options and turn off the ability to accept them.

You never see the blind invite, but in your chat panel you will see green text that says "You decline XXXX's invitation to join his party."

You're not anonymous, so your friends can still find you and send you /tells. And if you forget your invites are turned off, you will still see who tried to invite you and then you can decide if you want to turn invites back on long enough to group.

Seems to be working well for me so far.

This however makes friends and guildies inviting you impossible, and creates more headache for you as now you have to constantly go into options and turn invites on and off manually.

[katana_one]

Yeah, but it beats the heck out of getting a blind invite during a difficult fight.

And it doesn't prevent *you* from inviting *them* or from putting up LFMs (that I know of). It's only three mouse clicks to turn invites on/off.

I know it's not an ideal solution, but as long as there are new players, there are going to be blind invites.

[Burradin]

There you are, I know there are some of you out there, I hit yah about 1 in 20, just so you know your pair size. From my exp from this and other games, in general this is a very anti-social behavior from a social heavy game. Most people never reply, as they shouldn't per the tell. Some do anyways to say thanks for asking and some join in and are glad I asked. Then there is the very few that come back biting. Honestly your my fav kind, I forward it to the North Pole. You say WRONG, but you are like 1 in 6 here and the other 5 thought it was ok, so really if someone has to be wrong who is i?

I agree in one regards, if everyone understood and used the methods in this game there would be no need. But like all the other games, there just seems to be a fair percentage that just floats out there, secretly wanting to do something.

To say I interrupt the game for a singular tell also tells me the grumpy level of a person.

There was a person I grouped with last night that fits this bill perfectly. Also he didn't have his mic/chat on. I mentioned if he could turn it on. He came back with a new one "He's deaf", yes I have to be compasionate and leave it at that and did, but I did doubt it, he was such a sour puss. You were pretty much out of bounds reaching out to him in any way and agrees with Burradin, do not contact me, talk to me or touch me in anyway. I thought to myself, if you were deaf still turning it on wouldn't hurt, lolz. This falls under the same catergory when someone butchers a post, they come back everytime that English is my 4th or so language, I always tend to find the smartest people in the world on the internets.

I will say the biggest disapointment coming back is 1 in 10 people talk in PUG's now, were it used to be over 50% imo. Wow talk about sucking some fun out of the game, I love a chatty group, adds so much.

Feel free to forward away. Because my replies are that if I wanted to group, I would have clicked on the LFM and learn to use the game properly. Not much north pole is going to say to me when the reality, you are the one harrassing me by your tells when you could have used the LFM. Have fun with that you hear.

[Zippo]

Yeah, but it beats the heck out of getting a blind invite during a difficult fight.

And it doesn't prevent *you* from inviting *them* or from putting up LFMs (that I know of). It's only three mouse clicks to turn invites on/off.

I know it's not an ideal solution, but as long as there are new players, there are going to be blind invites.

I shouldn't have to change my play style because someone else decides to be rude. While your solution is a band aid, it does not address the problem.

[Horrorscope]

I didn't play last night, but your description of deaf person that arguing against sending tells to people not LFG sounds like me, lol. Were you in my group in House K quests a few days ago?

Perhaps, small world and now I'll have to go to confession this Sunday. God bless ya, but I hope you can understand part of my point in how anyone seemingly will use any comeback on the internet for arguments sake, so I'm a little skeptical by nature. Not that we clashed or anything, more like my luck sometimes.

[Horrorscope]

Feel free to forward away. Because my replies are that if I wanted to group, I would have clicked on the LFM and learn to use the game properly. Not much north pole is going to say to me when the reality, you are the one harassing me by your tells when you could have used the LFM. Have fun with that you hear.

Noted, 1 in 20.

[katana_one]

I shouldn't have to change my play style because someone else decides to be rude. While your solution is a band aid, it does not address the problem.

Agreed. I know my suggestion is merely a trade-off - I trade away a little bit of my own convenience in accepting party invites but I gain the ability to solo uninterrupted. To me it's worth it until Turbine can do something about the way invites work.

Edit: As luck would have it, I was logging in as I was posting. As soon as I logged in, I auto-declined TWO blind invites from the same person. LOL

[steelrock]

Come on guys, you're doing it all wrong. After 4 invites in 90 secs after 3 declines from a 2nd level toon while on your 11th level toon, how could you not run Butcher's path on hard. My only mistake was I didn't pike it! But they (2 melees) were very excited to finish the quest. Still wasn't sure if they were just looking for favour or not.... must have been, the XP wasn't that great!

[Dark_Helmet]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


I HATE someone sending me blind invites / tells while I an in a dungeon (especially when solo).

If I wanted to group, I would look at the LFM / pop an LFG on myself. I ignore blind invites, tells, or general / advice / trade channel LFMs....

If you are too stupid to use the proper tool, I don't want to group with you. Obviously, you most likely won't listen to directions within a dungeon and get the group killed.

PS - Hi Welcome! :)

[jingseng]

It is fairly safe to assume that most people are ok with a tell asking first (there will be some even against that but you can't win em all), it is the random blind invite out of the blue that tweak a lot of people so much. And maybe some of it is age and/or lack of proper etiquette understanding but at some point something needs to be said.

The real "problem" about blind invites is that it can waste time on multiple levels. On several occasions, I have set myself on LFG, with a specific comment/quest noted. To be fair, when you are lfg under those circumstances, a blind invite _to the right quest_ is fair game.

But i've been invited, under those circumstances, to a group outside my level range, without a proper set up, for an entirely different quest. Come on. All that proves to me is that the leader doesn't know how to read. If I'm lfm for invaders! (for example) and level 13... chances are pretty **** good i'm not at all even slightly interested in running waterworks with a group of lv5-6... or worse, garrison's missing pack. Get a goddamn clue.

But now, as leader, you are wasting everyone's time. I can't find the party I want. You can't fill out your group properly (and so waste your own time), and now your party members can't get on with the quest they joined for.

Keep in mind, I'm NOT going to drop whatever i'm doing just to leave your group. If i'm in the middle of soloing a quest, i'm not going to restart it. When you sent an invite when I have a comment up, it can be expected that you are literate and intelligent enough to understand whether you should or should not have sent that invite. So now you can't dismiss me, and I can't leave. Which means you can't get on with your group. Brilliant.

Now mind you, if I'm not lfg and I accept a blind invite, that's (at least) partially my fault.

Besides that scenario, which happens far too frequently, there is yet another BS scenario with blind invite. Someone invited me, and then immediately left. "Sorry, just resetting my instance." Yeah, and being an ****** at the same time. Good for you. Never no mind that I have been waiting a while to join a group (yeah, when I feel like leading, i'll MAKE my own group; when I don't feel like leading, I'll wait for an invite)... And I surely don't mind the exploitation, particularly after that initial feeling of "oh good, some progress might be made".

and the whole stupidity of it all is: It takes a right click and and three seconds to put together a simple tell with some semblance of politeness and information.

[cheever77]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

Nice. I wouldnt mind getting a tell to that effect. I have however had some players send me a tell along those lines when I am in a group. To those people. If you don't know how to tell a person is in a group figure it out it isn't that hard. I am certainly not going to drop the group I am in to come run with you. You will just end up on my /ignore list and be done with it.

[MightyKrendarian]

Used reject a lot, and still do. Wonder what is the thinking behind a blind invite? Many thanks to the author of this thread for a fun trip/destination as this thread came up on my keyword search at the top for "build".

[Lirial]

im sorry for commenting in this thread but to the op, really funny lol i cant stand blind invites period. i usually just reject them right off the bat but maybe i will try that approach sometime :)

now i will show myself out of this thread

[Lleren]

Don't like blind invites
Offended by blind tells
Hermit in training
Get of my lawn you <bleep> kids

[aerieon]

Wonder what is the thinking behind a blind invite?

I've seen one f2p player state that they only get so many tells per minuite to different people, and that it's faster to fill a group sending out random invites. <rolls eyes> Seriously as verbouse as I am i could have 1 tell a minuite and I still wouldn't notice it.. Geesh.

[Zippo]

I've seen one f2p player state that they only get so many tells per minuite to different people, and that it's faster to fill a group sending out random invites. <rolls eyes> Seriously as verbouse as I am i could have 1 tell a minuite and I still wouldn't notice it.. Geesh.

In a situation like that I would say they need to go about it the proper way then. Use the grouping panel.

[Uska]

On a side note could this be considered harassment since I joined a group with no intention of playing with them?

Yes but so could their blind invite.

[Uska]

On a side note I got a polite tell asking me to join a group I declined then got 3 blind invites in a row where upon I hit them with a report for bugging the hell out of me.

[Zippo]

On a side note I got a polite tell asking me to join a group I declined then got 3 blind invites in a row where upon I hit them with a report for bugging the hell out of me.

Wow! Was it the same guy/girl/kid you had just declined???

[buffsrule]

blind invite=instant squelch if i dont know who you are. when im in a quest and get a tell asking if i want to join you're party, = instant squelch if i dont know who you are. i'm busy dang it. plus i do use the lfm chances are i saw your lfm and didnt want to run that quest or i would have clicked on it. got to be such a problem i usually run around annon now...which is a pain when i actually do hit the lfm. my 2cp.

Buffs

[LordMond]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?

[Burradin]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?

Simply, you are off base.

[Visty]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?

what you did there arent blind invites

[Zippo]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?

As Visty said what you did wasn't a blind invite. What you did was send out a couple of tells to people asking them if they wanted to come along. In my book is perfectly acceptable (albeit to others as has been seen here in this thread they don't even like that) behavior. It is the random inviting someone to a group without even a tell asking them that we are talking about (well mostly anyways).

[Lirial]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?


Yea thats not blind inviting. blind inviting is just going through that list and sending invites without even having asked said people if they want to group up with you. i find that tactic very cheesy and will always turn it down. But the practice of sending tells to people is a great way to fill a group because sometimes people arent looking at the lfm listings and they get a tell for a party inv and reply with "yea sure ill go" type of thing or "no sorry im busy atm ty anyway". Of course alot of times people will send no reply at all in which case i move on to the next person i want to try and scoop up. if the no reply gets back to me before i fill said spot they get the inv. if they reply beyond that then they get a sorry we're full now thx anyway

[ddoplayer064]

Simply, you are off base.

No, he's fine.

[Lirial]

Heres something funny that happened to me when i was forming a group for some quest in House D not long ago. it was a little slow going at first and i managed to get 2 people. one of them asked me to pass lead to him and now this is just wrong to do imo, to join a group and then ask for lead. i asked him why and he said he was going to inv some people. i said give me their names and i will handle the invites. so he started giving me names and i sent tells to those people asking if they agreed to group because i had my suspicions and sure enough they had no idea what i was talking about.

the player was trying to get me to blind inv basically so i told him politely that i will not be blindly inviting people as i find such practice to be annoying personally, He then went on to say "why? you would rather wait?" i said yes i would rather wait for people who actually wish to go and send them the invites and if he did not like that he could leave and form his own group or sit down and shut up. Even the other member of the team agreed with me that its a lame thing to do.

i think he got the point because he stopped trying afterwards but he turned out to be not such a great asset to the team anyway.. lesson learned?

yea next time someone joins my group and asks for lead to inv people he/she will get the proverbial "boot" from me :)

[Zippo]

Heres something funny that happened to me when i was forming a group for some quest in House D not long ago. it was a little slow going at first and i managed to get 2 people. one of them asked me to pass lead to him and now this is just wrong to do imo, to join a group and then ask for lead. i asked him why and he said he was going to inv some people. i said give me their names and i will handle the invites. so he started giving me names and i sent tells to those people asking if they agreed to group because i had my suspicions and sure enough they had no idea what i was talking about.

the player was trying to get me to blind inv basically so i told him politely that i will not be blindly inviting people as i find such practice to be annoying personally, He then went on to say "why? you would rather wait?" i said yes i would rather wait for people who actually wish to go and send them the invites and if he did not like that he could leave and form his own group or sit down and shut up. Even the other member of the team agreed with me that its a lame thing to do.

i think he got the point because he stopped trying afterwards but he turned out to be not such a great asset to the team anyway.. lesson learned?

yea next time someone joins my group and asks for lead to inv people he/she will get the proverbial "boot" from me :)


In that respect he "could have" but as it turns out wasn't the case this time, been trying to invite some guild mates or friends

[Sirea]

Simply, you are off base.

Maybe to you, he is, but to the community at large, /tells are perfectly acceptable.

[D-molisher]

I usually just put peops in block list; who happen to invite my cleric lvl 20 without PM me first: Saying what/ who & where.
So far the rude peops list are only around 20 peops, but getting bigger every week.

And i do the same on my 3 other chars.

[Kobu]

Maybe to you, he is, but to the community at large, /tells are perfectly acceptable.

Quite right. I haven't ever felt the need to send out tells, but they don't bother me a bit. I don't respond to all the abbreviated ones or if I'm in a dungeon, but if I'm doing rares somewhere, I'm probably not checking LFM very often, and an offer to join a nearly full raid or an uncommonly run quest is sometimes appreciated.

If you get bent out of shape over a polite tell, why not just go anon all the time?

[cupajoe]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

As others have said that's a tell. That's usually fine as it simply appears in the chat window.

Now an invite is another matter. When you send an invite it pops up a box in (roughly) the middle of the players screen and forces focus to it. The player must acknowledge it by clicking yes or no. Doesn't seem harmful but, what if said player is just about to land the killing blow on the end boss of the quest he is soloing? Or is desperately trying to down that cure pot cause he knows just one more hit will kill em?

So don't send blind invites ok? Tells are fine but no invites.

[Strakeln]

Simply, you are off base.

No, he isn't. Not for the majority of the community.

[Zenako]

Simply, you are off base.

Hopefully you just responded the lead sentance in the post where the poster INCORRECTLY called what he was doing a blind invite. He was actually sending tells if you read his explantion, and that should be fine and not an issue.

As mentioned previously Blind Tells are merely some text showing up in a chat window. Blind Invites are a POP UP that interupts the recipient. Those are uncool.

[dkrypt]

They could program invites to show existing party members, their levels, and, if indicated, which quest they're running.

[Magnyr_Delorn]

I shouldn't have to change my play style because someone else decides to be rude. While your solution is a band aid, it does not address the problem.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about the situation.

How about this:

If you get sent an invite, you now have THREE options:
"YES"
"NO"
"BLIND INVITE GRR I HATE YOU!"(name negotiable)

If in the same day, an individual gets five people reporting him for "BLIND INVITE GRR I HATE YOU!" then he is prohibited from inviting people for a period of time determined by Turbine, along with a tooltip/mail message/DM tells/etc explaining WHY he is being blocked.

It can't be abused to hurt someone, because the only way to get reported is to do it, and it can't accidentally screw someone over, as you have to do it five times in a row!

[Donnie]

I got a blind trade window the other day, followed by a tell:

"Can you give 10 plat?"

**** I wish I would of had some coal or a twig on me at the time :D

[Zippo]

This is EXACTLY how I feel about the situation.

How about this:

If you get sent an invite, you now have THREE options:
"YES"
"NO"
"BLIND INVITE GRR I HATE YOU!"(name negotiable)

If in the same day, an individual gets five people reporting him for "BLIND INVITE GRR I HATE YOU!" then he is prohibited from inviting people for a period of time determined by Turbine, along with a tooltip/mail message/DM tells/etc explaining WHY he is being blocked.

It can't be abused to hurt someone, because the only way to get reported is to do it, and it can't accidentally screw someone over, as you have to do it five times in a row!

An interesting idea that could be worth further thought. As it stands now I suppose you could report them for harassing behavior but that would only go but so far I think.

[adsecula]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?

I fill most of my teams with /tell 's being polite and cheeky, most answer no and are very polite about it. I think it’s all about how you ask. If you jump someone with a blind invite you’re asking for trouble. I think specially on the new servers (not so new anymore) the need to /tell are a lot more necessary. On the higher levels its gets even worse since there are only 10 people in your range and most are busy. (Explore areas and soloing) I tend to stay away from them and wait till they exit before asking…

Good thread btw. I’m always curious to know how people feel about me asking them to join my awesome runs. :)

[jingseng]

A simple solution would be to disable inviting in part or in whole from the social panel/UI

What i mean to say is, you can only invite a person if they send a tell to you (by right clicking their name).

This leaves intact the party formation menu and party-join application process (blind joins! no one ever complains about those =)

So in short, leaders would be forced to send a tell, and an intelligible/informational tell, in order to invite. Tells like "hi" or "can you help" are noninformational - think of it from the receiving side: Can I help you with what? How far along are you? Do I even have access to that quest? is this a favor run? It doesn't take much to put together a tell with some basic information to help a person decide if they want to join or not (and if that sort of thinking is too hard, well...)

When I say in part or in whole, I mean potentially leaving open the option to blind invite people who are actively flagged as LFM (which can still be a problem, as i posted before).

[adsecula]

Can’t be too much information mate... the attention span of the average player at the moment is about 5 sec. ;) So type fast and keep it easy.. I usually start with a: Hey mate.. We are running "add quest" and need a good "insert type of class or player." Next one would be more informative if asked ofc.

Anything more would be too much and a hassle.

[Dark_Helmet]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?
Not a blind invite, but I think you are off-base.


If this becomes the norm:
Suppose there are 500 people on the server not in groups, and 10% of them decide to start sending tells asking to join a group, that means I have to deal with 50 tells. BTW - I have found more than one person from the same group sending me a tell asking me to join and it ****es me off. I sometimes send back a polite NTY, but I am still mad that people are that selfish to bug me while I am playing.

Yes, that is off-base as far as I am concerned.

This is the same argument people were using for the LFMs about selling stuff: If enough people start doing this, it just fills up the LFM with useless stuff. Personally, I run around doing stuff with the LFM up showing what groups I am eligible for on my client - I don't wait for someone I don't even know to tell me "hey, I bet you are too stupid to look at the LFM tool built into the game. But, I still want your dumb ass to group with us."

Actually, it is just being selfish: You are saying YOUR needs are greater than my right to play the game unharassed. If I wanted to group with you, I would put up the LFG or join the LFM you placed.

Using the proper tools for the job is a win-win.


Yes, someone ****ed in my Cheerios today. Yet another person was sending blind tells and invites and I was busy trying to finish a quest. Yes, I was in a quest and got 3 in succession!

[Zippo]

As I am thinking about it a little more, someone else had mentioned about turning all invites off which to me seems to be a band aid temporarily instead of a solution. With that though maybe a more permanent solution would have the Devs put in an option that allows for the auto decline of party invites except and unless they are on your friends or guild list. It would be yet another ui option but well worth it I think.

[Rumbaar]

My last blind invite was, it seems, from 3 Sorcerers running Kobold's Assault.

I came in and said blind invites aren't really a way to get people. No response.

I continued on by asking why, no response.

I think they said "Going in" and that's all.

I sat outside and watched their health go down, Ding, Ding, Ding. I think two rez'ed and Ding, Ding ..

I finished with 'You should try to communicate more' and left.

[Kalari]

Sorry to use this for a sounding board Zippo but this new mentality is bugging me.

Oh and can I please reiterate that I said NEW MENTALITY not NEW PLAYERS

omg everything is a personal attack on people now.

We say join a group and speak up and get grief "oh your an elitist vet."

We say please dont hit invite if you see someone not in a group use the lfm "oh your an elitist vet who hates new players..'

Pardon my language but what the **** does being new have to do with being rude?

why is it because people feel that this is against new players only that were supposed to say "aww shucks its okay if you blindly invite me to your party or guild.."

Why is it were supposed to roll over when people spam the general chat or type share when the **** giver is right in front of them?

I dont care how it paints me elitist snob whatever im not going to allow my game play to change for the "give me generation of players that are about now." I dont care if your f2p vip or whatever I play my way and invite those who wish to. If I dont join your lfm thats been up for a few hours that means I dont want to group with you. Plain and simple and stop telling us long term players were mean because we dont like blind invites. I dont give into my four year old who has a the puppy dog eyes down pat im sure as hell not going to change for some 40 year old gaming dude who thinks im being teh fascists (misspelled on purpose from a cartoon) cause I dont want to join his ww speed lfm.

[aerieon]

As I am thinking about it a little more, someone else had mentioned about turning all invites off which to me seems to be a band aid temporarily instead of a solution. With that though maybe a more permanent solution would have the Devs put in an option that allows for the auto decline of party invites except and unless they are on your friends or guild list. It would be yet another ui option but well worth it I think.

Neat but i've had blind invites from my guild too >.< /sigh Although after my banter on it in guild chat about blind invites it seems to have stopped.. that and my chars aren't flagged for shoud and that's probably putting some off. heheheheheheheh good.

[Tharlak]

I actually did my first blind invite last night.

Was in a group planning on doing a Tempest Spine run. We got to 10 of 12 with guildies, friends, friends of friends, friends of guildies, etc but could not fill the last two spots. I first took a look at people in the 8-12 level range that were flagged LFG...no one. I then took a look at all players online in that level range and saw that there were a whopping FOUR people who were not grouped. At that point I sent each one a /tell asking them if they wanted to join the raid. If they were in a dungeon, I assumed that they were questing and did not bother them. We filled the group and had a rather lengthy run (connection issues mostly).

Of the three that I contacted, one replied with a very courteous "No, thank you." while the other two agreed to join.

Now I thought the process went well. It didn't appear that anyone was ticked off and we filled a raid group from which everyone benefitted. Seems like a win-win to me.

Am I off-base here?

I'm reading this as saying you sent tells to folks. Not blind invites. Sending polite tells is perfectly acceptable, at least to me, and I will send a polite response.

Blind invites create a big box that appears in the middle of your screen saying "Join Dum@ss Party , Yes No". This is very disruptive.

[jingseng]

we've neglected something... blind guild invites.

just....lol.

[Zippo]

we've neglected something... blind guild invites.

just....lol.

See this right here is non-issue for me. After creating a new toon I immediately go to the bank and pick up a guild sigil. So the only chance they get is when I get off the boat and get to the bank. Although I see how that could be an issue for some.

[aerieon]

See this right here is non-issue for me. After creating a new toon I immediately go to the bank and pick up a guild sigil. So the only chance they get is when I get off the boat and get to the bank. Although I see how that could be an issue for some.

So you're saying you alter your playstyle to prevent others from doing a blind guild invite.. Of course you could always select the decline guild invites but again it comes back to having to change ones playstyle because someone else feels it is of upmost imporantance to just do an invite instead of a tell asking if your interested.. /sigh

[seskie1]

I apologize in advance if my question seems offbase but having no RL Freinds ddo and having only joined recently, what is the proper decorum in asking more knowledgable with help through quests and groups? I leveled up to eight before feeling stuck, and restarting as a drow pal. It just if i send an tell to a group that i haven't done it before, i get written off and most of guilds are just looking for members not a more close knit guild to run quests.

[Zippo]

So you're saying you alter your playstyle to prevent others from doing a blind guild invite.. Of course you could always select the decline guild invites but again it comes back to having to change ones playstyle because someone else feels it is of upmost imporantance to just do an invite instead of a tell asking if your interested.. /sigh

No not altering my playstyle. Thats normal for me. Besides in retrospect once you're in a guild whether one with just your toons or a larger guild with friends and the like you don't receive the blind guild invites. You can only receive them when you're unguilded unlike blind invites which you can receive at any time really.

[Reyjak]

I got a blind trade window the other day, followed by a tell:

"Can you give 10 plat?"

**** I wish I would of had some coal or a twig on me at the time :D

When ever I get that or a random trade window open with "can you give XX plat" I just put a bunch of money in the window like 10k or something dont hit trade and just walk away get a coke and watch them go nuts till they give up and go away. its great entertainment :)

[Zippo]

Sorry to use this for a sounding board Zippo but this new mentality is bugging me.

Oh and can I please reiterate that I said NEW MENTALITY not NEW PLAYERS

omg everything is a personal attack on people now.

We say join a group and speak up and get grief "oh your an elitist vet."

We say please dont hit invite if you see someone not in a group use the lfm "oh your an elitist vet who hates new players..'

Pardon my language but what the **** does being new have to do with being rude?

why is it because people feel that this is against new players only that were supposed to say "aww shucks its okay if you blindly invite me to your party or guild.."

Why is it were supposed to roll over when people spam the general chat or type share when the **** giver is right in front of them?

I dont care how it paints me elitist snob whatever im not going to allow my game play to change for the "give me generation of players that are about now." I dont care if your f2p vip or whatever I play my way and invite those who wish to. If I dont join your lfm thats been up for a few hours that means I dont want to group with you. Plain and simple and stop telling us long term players were mean because we dont like blind invites. I dont give into my four year old who has a the puppy dog eyes down pat im sure as hell not going to change for some 40 year old gaming dude who thinks im being teh fascists (misspelled on purpose from a cartoon) cause I dont want to join his ww speed lfm.


Eh sound away! ;)

[Letrii]

Disabling all inviting except for LFM window gets a vote from me.

[nat_1]

funny, that's how i weed out all the etiquette nazi's. :D but to each his own and as you said it's all fun and games.

"You must have more reputation to leave negative reputation for another user."

Oh well, I'm sure somebody else will take care of it.

It has little to do with etiquette. How can I be expected to join a party when I have no idea what is planned? A tell makes sense. What does it say about the party's chances of completion if members had no idea what was planned before they joined.

A new issue for me since I started running a fvs is blind invites from people I've grouped with. I find myself acting as a big blue battery for all those little red bars, and people like the healing and friend me after the quest. No other toon I've run gets five or more blind invites within a half minute of logging on. My problem now is how to politely say "Do I know you?" It's like, "Oh I friended him, he'll remember me" when really, you were just one of twelve red bars on a ts run.

[Zenako]

I apologize in advance if my question seems offbase but having no RL Freinds ddo and having only joined recently, what is the proper decorum in asking more knowledgable with help through quests and groups? I leveled up to eight before feeling stuck, and restarting as a drow pal. It just if i send an tell to a group that i haven't done it before, i get written off and most of guilds are just looking for members not a more close knit guild to run quests.

What I would suggest is opening up an LFM on the Grouping panel and in the Comments section put something to the effect of "New player, Running quest XYZ, welcome experienced help to learn the quest"

For very specific things that are stumping you, try the /Advice channel and ask a question there. I know I answer lots of reasonable questions on that channel when I have the time on many of my alts.

[muffinlad]

Is the following acceptable?

I've tried the means that are built into the system and I can't get that last player or two.

I then use who to filter and try to figure out who maybe just plodding along solo.

When I see a probable candidate is it ok to send something like this blindly:

"We are gathering a player to run XXX on XXX. We need a XXX to finshin up the party. If you are interested PM back, if not no need to reply, thanks!"

Is that ok? Is that still considered a blind invite? One may do this to 15 - 20 players trying to get a bite.


That said, I believe a lot of new players come into a new MMO's assuming crappy grouping tools because most have crappy grouping tools, so they've grown up with tells & blind invites. IMO DDO has a solid grouping tool, but some just never get around to figuring it out and relying on it.

While I almost never respond to blind invites, and just as infrequently ignore blind tells...I would respond to this and say either "thanks sure" or "no thanks". You put effort into it, and you are just trying to fill your party. That I understand. +++ for being informative and polite.

muffinmanners

[muffinlad]

Simply, you are off base.

Disagree. What he did was fine.

Now, it may not have been fine with you, and thats your right to feel that way, but using the social tools for a social game, which includes not only the LFM/LFG ability, but the ability to send /tells to players who you can CLEARLY see on the WHO page, provided to us by the Devs so we can talk -quite quickly- to other players of the game.

If you don't want such tells, Anon is the option for you, and was placed there by the Devs. for that purpose.

Naturally, everything has it's limits. Blind invites create a screen block. But asking someone if they want to join a quest, even with the option of an LFM is pretty accepted behavior for a social game.

Getting angry about it, when the very simple solution of making yourself Anon. exists seems a waste of time.

muffinnanimous.

[Letrii]

Disagree. What he did was fine.

Now, it may not have been fine with you, and thats your right to feel that way, but using the social tools for a social game, which includes not only the LFM/LFG ability, but the ability to send /tells to players who you can CLEARLY see on the WHO page, provided to us by the Devs so we can talk -quite quickly- to other players of the game.

If you don't want such tells, Anon is the option for you, and was placed there by the Devs. for that purpose.

Naturally, everything has it's limits. Blind invites create a screen block. But asking someone if they want to join a quest, even with the option of an LFM is pretty accepted behavior for a social game.

Getting angry about it, when the very simple solution of making yourself Anon. exists seems a waste of time.

muffinnanimous.

I disagree, if I am not browsing LFM and not LFG, I should not have to go /anon to be left alone.

[Kalari]

Yes but its getting to the point where we have to hide in a social game just to stop rude players from trying to get us into there groups and no one sees anything wrong with that?

Have I woke up in Bizzaro world ddo style?

Why do we have to provide the stop to rude behavior? Why cant people get that just because they put up an lfm or have the lfg thingie over their heads that maybe they will have to wait to actually make or get into a group?

Ive been rejected from groups heck still do when I roll new alts that folks dont know "hey its Kal." Thats apart of the gaming experience. I dont go whining about it and I sure as heck dont start hitting invites to random strangers just to get a quest done.

Point blank its rude and shows to me that the person doing that values their fun over mine which is a huge no no.

All the suggestions for what "we" can do to stop it may seem like they make sense but what about the fact that some of us do want to group we just dont want to be in the groups offered or maybe we think "hey let me get some explorer type stuff done while we wait for something more prospecting and can do the explorer area solo only to be bugged by some dude whose lfm just went up but he wants to expedite his group filling?"

Im just sick of seeing rude behavior dismissed as something we should go threw trouble (via anonymous and disabling invites) to quell. Why cant people just have common sense accept that it may take a while to fill a group and not send these things?

OH and believe me ive said my piece on blind guild invites, why would anyone invite a completely new person they have never run with to be in a guild? A guild should at least have a common goal or common hobbies in my opinion so of course im not going to join someone who tries to snag my girl running from the harbor to the marketplace. Its just rude stupid and doesnt say much about the guild in question. Now I maybe a little cranky had to go to the dentist but im really getting sick of people quasi defending this behavior by saying "well you can just disable invites."

No people need to stop being rude.

[Horrorscope]

Yes but its getting to the point where we have to hide in a social game just to stop rude players from trying to get us into there groups and no one sees anything wrong with that?

Have I woke up in Bizzaro world ddo style?

(cut some stuff)

No people need to stop being rude.

Perhaps you have a point, but I also tend to live in the reality of the current world. The word RUDE in many of these cases presented sound more like "taking anything presented to you lot harsher then the other person believes they are coming across".

But the part of reality that is working here is "Whenever mankind groups together in a public forum (TV, radio, town hall, game forum) there is a huge tendency to all of a sudden look at the "perfect world", yes we all know what should be best, we also know it doesn't exist and won't ever exist. But when everyone leaves these gatherings "do they all really live by it"? Tendencies say they do not.

So there is something about a gathering of people where all of a sudden everyone is holier then thou. That is called Political Correctness and I can't imagine there isn't a person alive that thinks that hasn't gone way too far. PC is the stuff made from these gatherings, these discussions we have now. It's all kinds of fail.

It's like looking at a nice rolling hill on a pleasant day from afar, dreaming of going on a picnic with your loved one, running the hills and laughing. Reality is gravity is waiting for you there to tell you how much you built up that facade in your mind.

[Kalari]

Perhaps you have a point, but I also tend to live in the reality of the current world. The word RUDE in many of these cases presented sound more like "taking anything presented to you lot harsher then the other person believes they are coming across".

But the part of reality that is working here is "Whenever mankind groups together in a public forum (TV, radio, town hall, game forum) there is a huge tendency to all of a sudden look at the "perfect world", yes we all know what should be best, we also know it doesn't exist and won't ever exist. But when everyone leaves these gatherings "do they all really live by it"? Tendencies say they do not.

So there is something about a gathering of people where all of a sudden everyone is holier then thou. That is called Political Correctness and I can't imagine there isn't a person alive that thinks that hasn't gone way too far. PC is the stuff made from these gatherings, these discussions we have now. It's all kinds of fail.

It's like looking at a nice rolling hill on a pleasant day from afar, dreaming of going on a picnic with your loved one, running the hills and laughing. Reality is gravity is waiting for you there to tell you how much you built up that facade in your mind.

True but I go by whats fun for me and as much as its nice to just say its a game blow it off if im not having fun due to someone else being what I think is rude that hurts my fun. Im not paying to play a game to have others ruin it for me. I just want that respected. I get that not everyone thinks the same but the moment a person puts their needs ahead of my own and I didnt give birth to them yeah its time for me to ignore them and if they catch me on a bad day tell them about themselves. Thats just the type of person I am I dont plan on changing and thankfully ddo is a big enough game where if people dont like it they can ignore and avoid me :)

[Zippo]

True but I go by whats fun for me and as much as its nice to just say its a game blow it off if im not having fun due to someone else being what I think is rude that hurts my fun. Im not paying to play a game to have others ruin it for me. I just want that respected. I get that not everyone thinks the same but the moment a person puts their needs ahead of my own and I didnt give birth to them yeah its time for me to ignore them and if they catch me on a bad day tell them about themselves. Thats just the type of person I am I dont plan on changing and thankfully ddo is a big enough game where if people dont like it they can ignore and avoid me :)

For what it's worth it's gotten far enough out of hand (especially last weekend) that I decided to take a short week or two hiatus from the game. Hell spent the last 2 days (since I'm laid up with the busted knee and couldn't go to work for a few days) breaking out Knights of the Old Republic (the original one :D) to relieve some of the single player old Star Wars greatness there. After that maybe KOTOR 2 this weekend ;).

Ya know it's amazing that 2 games that are respectively about 6 yrs old (or is it 7 years old now?) can still have a new game feel to them even after running them several times through

Enough de-rail there. Basically if it's getting to the point where I can't even seem to enjoy MY money spent into a game because of someone else it's time for a break at the very least. So I hear ya Kal.

[Creddi]

I disagree, if I am not browsing LFM and not LFG, I should not have to go /anon to be left alone.

Agreed.

[Lirial]

Sorry to use this for a sounding board Zippo but this new mentality is bugging me.

Oh and can I please reiterate that I said NEW MENTALITY not NEW PLAYERS

omg everything is a personal attack on people now.

We say join a group and speak up and get grief "oh your an elitist vet."

We say please dont hit invite if you see someone not in a group use the lfm "oh your an elitist vet who hates new players..'

Pardon my language but what the **** does being new have to do with being rude?

why is it because people feel that this is against new players only that were supposed to say "aww shucks its okay if you blindly invite me to your party or guild.."

Why is it were supposed to roll over when people spam the general chat or type share when the **** giver is right in front of them?

I dont care how it paints me elitist snob whatever im not going to allow my game play to change for the "give me generation of players that are about now." I dont care if your f2p vip or whatever I play my way and invite those who wish to. If I dont join your lfm thats been up for a few hours that means I dont want to group with you. Plain and simple and stop telling us long term players were mean because we dont like blind invites. I dont give into my four year old who has a the puppy dog eyes down pat im sure as hell not going to change for some 40 year old gaming dude who thinks im being teh fascists (misspelled on purpose from a cartoon) cause I dont want to join his ww speed lfm.

I think youre a little off base on this post , just saying :)

[Magusrex777]

Sorry to use this for a sounding board Zippo but this new mentality is bugging me.

Oh and can I please reiterate that I said NEW MENTALITY not NEW PLAYERS

omg everything is a personal attack on people now.

We say join a group and speak up and get grief "oh your an elitist vet."

We say please dont hit invite if you see someone not in a group use the lfm "oh your an elitist vet who hates new players..'

Pardon my language but what the **** does being new have to do with being rude?

why is it because people feel that this is against new players only that were supposed to say "aww shucks its okay if you blindly invite me to your party or guild.."

Why is it were supposed to roll over when people spam the general chat or type share when the **** giver is right in front of them?

I dont care how it paints me elitist snob whatever im not going to allow my game play to change for the "give me generation of players that are about now." I dont care if your f2p vip or whatever I play my way and invite those who wish to. If I dont join your lfm thats been up for a few hours that means I dont want to group with you. Plain and simple and stop telling us long term players were mean because we dont like blind invites. I dont give into my four year old who has a the puppy dog eyes down pat im sure as hell not going to change for some 40 year old gaming dude who thinks im being teh fascists (misspelled on purpose from a cartoon) cause I dont want to join his ww speed lfm.


Well we agree on one thing and we don't on another, makes sense. I do think blind invites are silly, I have never accepted one in all my years of gaming and I never will. It doesn't upset me, doesn't interfere with my fun though. I don't allow others that kind of power over me. You sure do seem to make yourself an easy target for grief. I read most of your recent posts before writing this and I would encourage you read them yourself. You sure do seem to be allowing other people to mess with your time in game. Let it go, play with your friends enjoy the game, don't let words or invites get in your way. I know we disagree on what is rude and what is not, so what, you would be amazed at what you can ignore. Call me a bleeding heart , give it all to me now player, I'm not, but I'm cool with it if you think I am. I am a player who has set his priority as fun and I allow no one to get in my way or interfere with that and all I had to do to have that happen is make a simple choice. I feel bad that some of you can't seem to do that for yourself. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Kalari]

Well we agree on one thing and we don't on another, makes sense. I do think blind invites are silly, I have never accepted one in all my years of gaming and I never will. It doesn't upset me, doesn't interfere with my fun though. I don't allow others that kind of power over me. You sure do seem to make yourself an easy target for grief. I read most of your recent posts before writing this and I would encourage you read them yourself. You sure do seem to be allowing other people to mess with your time in game. Let it go, play with your friends enjoy the game, don't let words or invites get in your way. I know we disagree on what is rude and what is not, so what, you would be amazed at what you can ignore. Call me a bleeding heart , give it all to me now player, I'm not, but I'm cool with it if you think I am. I am a player who has set his priority as fun and I allow no one to get in my way or interfere with that and all I had to do to have that happen is make a simple choice. I feel bad that some of you can't seem to do that for yourself. Don't sweat the small stuff.

So your saying I should be more like you then my own person? Can I flip this and ask you why does what I consider annoying to my fun enough to vent bother you? If this doesnt happen to you or doesnt affect your game play great, if you can let things roll off your back thats wonderful to.

But just like ive seen many of you say its a big world people are going to be rude people are going to let things get to them that maybe you dont.

Point blank I am not you I never claimed to be this cool cat that thinks everything is cool. And if YOU go by my posts you can see that. I love ddo I use this game to relax so when people interfere with my relax time yes it affects me. Should I let it sure by your standards I should not. But you dont know me you dont know why things get to me so instead of telling me to chill maybe ignore my posts if they bug you. These forums are meant for all aspects of the game including those of us who feel slighted by others. We are not allowed to name names thats fair no used black listing people who have the potential to change plus if someone is rude of a long time they will get the message when they are iced out of groups.

But what you and a few others who keep addressing me to get over it its just a game dont realize is im not you. I let things that bother me bother me and thats my cross to bear. So dont view my posts as someone who you need to council on letting go and if they bother you there is an ignore feature in this forums that id suggest you use if you dont like what I have to say. once again this goes back to my earlier posts it seems that instead of people learning not to be rude once again those of us who have had to deal with this now have to just take it. Well nope sorry as long as I am civil name no names and do not spam it I will continue to vent when some tool puts their fun before my own.

So thanks for the tips but save your psycho babble for another person. I dont turn the other cheek not my style.

[Kalari]

I think youre a little off base on this post , just saying :)

Im off base by saying that im sick of players sending me blind invites when its clear that if I wanted in their groups id click join? Are you seriously just trying to see if you can pick at me? or are you defending the female players who may send blind invites because yeah I know not all 40 year old dudes play ddo it was just a little generalization. if its the new mentality thing yes believe me the number of blind group and guild invites went up massively with the launch of unlimited. Before it was very sporatic, now its any character I play thats not anonymous has to deal with it and thats not fun. So say im off till your dealing with it or having to hide from it dont assume to know what base im on k?

[Quanefel]

Perhaps you have a point, but I also tend to live in the reality of the current world. The word RUDE in many of these cases presented sound more like "taking anything presented to you lot harsher then the other person believes they are coming across".

But the part of reality that is working here is "Whenever mankind groups together in a public forum (TV, radio, town hall, game forum) there is a huge tendency to all of a sudden look at the "perfect world", yes we all know what should be best, we also know it doesn't exist and won't ever exist. But when everyone leaves these gatherings "do they all really live by it"? Tendencies say they do not.

So there is something about a gathering of people where all of a sudden everyone is holier then thou. That is called Political Correctness and I can't imagine there isn't a person alive that thinks that hasn't gone way too far. PC is the stuff made from these gatherings, these discussions we have now. It's all kinds of fail.

It's like looking at a nice rolling hill on a pleasant day from afar, dreaming of going on a picnic with your loved one, running the hills and laughing. Reality is gravity is waiting for you there to tell you how much you built up that facade in your mind.

It is called political correctness? No. It is called civility.

[muffinlad]

I disagree, if I am not browsing LFM and not LFG, I should not have to go /anon to be left alone.

I understand your feeling, and sometimes share it...but, as I mentioned the game has been DESIGNED (ephasis mine) that way. The intent of the Who page is to let people see who is on the server, what class, level and race they are, and what Satus they are in (In a party, not in a party).

A point in your favor, there is an option for LFM/LFG, but many people will not use it due to the flag which appears above their head, lack of general use by the populace, and a general feeling by most people, not only on this forum, but in the game as a whole that a polite /tell is acceptable.

Further, the Anon. ability was put in by the Dev's specifically for people such as yourself that do mind these tells. Another point for the Anti-Anon, is that the Dev's have made it not "clear up" when you are sending your request to join an active LFM.

That being said, we work with the tools we have. People are going to send either blind invites, or tells. Blind tells are far more acceptable to the game population, and a tool exists to reduce those tells generated from the Who screen. It may not be perfect, and you may not like it, but it is highly unlikely your personal preference is going to change the behavior of others esp. when so many others disagree with you regarding Blind tells (Guild invites/Blind Joins are other animals entirely)

As an aside, I never send blind invites or blind tells. I too let the LFM do the talking. I just don't want to restrict the reasonable actions of others in a social game.

Regards,

muffin

[eonfreon]

No people need to stop being rude.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. But there is no magic wand to go "poof- no more rude people".
So we are left with dealing with the tools in-game to handle what no company can do: control what happens between players.
I get people need to vent. I have no problem with that.
Of course the bad behavior has increased. The server populations have increased. FtP is an incentive for younger players who can't/don't want to spend money to play this game who couldn't/wouldn't before.

A lot of behavior stems more from clueless people then anything else, from what I've seen.

I have never advocated or defended bad behavior. Or annoying behavior. I however, will speak up in threads like these where the solution to a "griefing" behavior is with another "griefing" behavior.

Yes, people without a clue with how things work need to be taught, or at least an attempt should be made to teach them, then it's up to them.

And I can see the satisfaction to reverse the grief onto the initial offending party. Unfortunately, the two in contention are not in a vacuum. If I join a group run by some young kid who winds up blind inviting some Cleric, who accepts in "retaliation" and then goes on to do whatever else he was doing and assumes all the rest of the party are guilty by association, then yes, when I find out down the line that the Cleric isn't joining us because he's teaching the dumb leader a lesson, then yeah I'm going to consider both the leader and the Cleric to be jerks.

Now if that Cleric joins to come on and say "hey that's not cool- I don't like Blind Invites you could have caused my character's death, don't do that again" and drops right away, then he got his point across and I was informed the leader made a large error that needs to be taught, and all without wasting my time with a urinating contest.

So, I won't tell you to get over it or get thicker skin or whatever.

However, I will caution players not to take it to another level.
I'm sure that doesn't apply to you Kal, I'm not singling you out, but you're forgetting that some people really don't have a clue to what is expected or correct in an artificial gaming environment.

When I get a blind invite I decline and usually send a tell saying why it is a really bad idea to send blind invites.

This is not some Bizarro world where good is bad and polite is rude.

It's just regular life.

Now, asking for something logical, like Turbine changing the Invite mechanic so that it doesn't pop-up in front of your character and lock everything else out, I can certainly get behind.
I think that will at least make sense to prevent actual "griefing".

[Kalari]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. But there is no magic wand to go "poof- no more rude people".
So we are left with dealing with the tools in-game to handle what no company can do: control what happens between players.
I get people need to vent. I have no problem with that.
Of course the bad behavior has increased. The server populations have increased. FtP is an incentive for younger players who can't/don't want to spend money to play this game who couldn't/wouldn't before.

A lot of behavior stems more from clueless people then anything else, from what I've seen.

I have never advocated or defended bad behavior. Or annoying behavior. I however, will speak up in threads like these where the solution to a "griefing" behavior is with another "griefing" behavior.

Yes, people without a clue with how things work need to be taught, or at least an attempt should be made to teach them, then it's up to them.

And I can see the satisfaction to reverse the grief onto the initial offending party. Unfortunately, the two in contention are not in a vacuum. If I join a group run by some young kid who winds up blind inviting some Cleric, who accepts in "retaliation" and then goes on to do whatever else he was doing and assumes all the rest of the party are guilty by association, then yes, when I find out down the line that the Cleric isn't joining us because he's teaching the dumb leader a lesson, then yeah I'm going to consider both the leader and the Cleric to be jerks.

Now if that Cleric joins to come on and say "hey that's not cool- I don't like Blind Invites you could have caused my character's death, don't do that again" and drops right away, then he got his point across and I was informed the leader made a large error that needs to be taught, and all without wasting my time with a urinating contest.

So, I won't tell you to get over it or get thicker skin or whatever.

However, I will caution players not to take it to another level.
I'm sure that doesn't apply to you Kal, I'm not singling you out, but you're forgetting that some people really don't have a clue to what is expected or correct in an artificial gaming environment.

When I get a blind invite I decline and usually send a tell saying why it is a really bad idea to send blind invites.

This is not some Bizarro world where good is bad and polite is rude.

It's just regular life.

Now, asking for something logical, like Turbine changing the Invite mechanic so that it doesn't pop-up in front of your character and lock everything else out, I can certainly get behind.
I think that will at least make sense to prevent actual "griefing".

Yep I agree there with you Eon and Ive said I will never condone counter action I just want to enjoy the game I want people to understand that when they make groups sometimes they have to wait and blind tells dont bother me I find them considerate because they are asking me if I want to be apart of their groups instead of an invite assuming just because im on I want in their groups. I would not join a group on purpose and hold them up I do not feel one childish act would teach them anything. But I will send a tell to someone blind inviting me "hey you know thats rude" in a heart beat and it does bug me especially if ive had a rough day and all I want to do is relax.

So trust me I get what you and the others are saying. What I dont like is a few of the posters who are trying to tell me dont let it bother you. They are not me they do not have the same threshold and thats just the way life is. For everyone who can just let something annoying or rude roll of the other cheek there are some of us who have a limit to it. The last few months since the new launch has pushed me passed that. If this had been the first week of EU and I was complaining like this youd guys would have every right to say "oh come on now your just being silly." but since september ive had just an awful run with bad pugs who are rude, with blind guild and group invites to now I cant even make test builds without going anon, putting them into my established guild or disabling invites. All that work when I used to be able to make a character get her to 4 if I liked it before choosing to guild them. More work to enjoy the game and avoid people who cant take rejection is just not fun to me. But as I said in another thread I can just continue to run anon/solo and guild only that seems to be the only way to quell this nonsense.

[Magusrex777]

So your saying I should be more like you then my own person? Can I flip this and ask you why does what I consider annoying to my fun enough to vent bother you? If this doesnt happen to you or doesnt affect your game play great, if you can let things roll off your back thats wonderful to.

But just like ive seen many of you say its a big world people are going to be rude people are going to let things get to them that maybe you dont.

Point blank I am not you I never claimed to be this cool cat that thinks everything is cool. And if YOU go by my posts you can see that. I love ddo I use this game to relax so when people interfere with my relax time yes it affects me. Should I let it sure by your standards I should not. But you dont know me you dont know why things get to me so instead of telling me to chill maybe ignore my posts if they bug you. These forums are meant for all aspects of the game including those of us who feel slighted by others. We are not allowed to name names thats fair no used black listing people who have the potential to change plus if someone is rude of a long time they will get the message when they are iced out of groups.

But what you and a few others who keep addressing me to get over it its just a game dont realize is im not you. I let things that bother me bother me and thats my cross to bear. So dont view my posts as someone who you need to council on letting go and if they bother you there is an ignore feature in this forums that id suggest you use if you dont like what I have to say. once again this goes back to my earlier posts it seems that instead of people learning not to be rude once again those of us who have had to deal with this now have to just take it. Well nope sorry as long as I am civil name no names and do not spam it I will continue to vent when some tool puts their fun before my own.

So thanks for the tips but save your psycho babble for another person. I dont turn the other cheek not my style.

Sorry, but if you post on a public forum people will comment on your posts. It is what it is, I know I am not you. From reading your posts, you seem frustrated, that's what I get out of them. The point I am trying to get you to understand is that YOU are the one who is allowing people to interfere with your relax time. You are giving people that power over you. You do not have to. I don't want you to be me, and I KNOW I am not you. I only want you to be able to relax in the game you claim love and know that you can do that regardless of sharing or blind invite requests. That is all.

[Kalari]

Sorry, but if you post on a public forum people will comment on your posts. It is what it is, I know I am not you. From reading your posts, you seem frustrated, that's what I get out of them. The point I am trying to get you to understand is that YOU are the one who is allowing people to interfere with your relax time. You are giving people that power over you. You do not have to. I don't want you to be me, and I KNOW I am not you. I only want you to be able to relax in the game you claim love and know that you can do that regardless of sharing or blind invite requests. That is all.

were never going to agree on this I know that im going to have to cut the social aspect of this game to have fun im sure thats what the game makers wanted for their mmo to. But to enjoy a social game I must become anti social now. And hope it will continue to keep my interest longer then my stand alone dnd games. Im tired of venting to all it gets is a slew of people telling me to get over it im burned out or trying to help when all I wanted to do was get it out my system. So no worries I know how I have to adjust so that these issues arent issues anymore and hopefully you wont see any more venting this way.

[bandyman1]

Sorry, but if you post on a public forum people will comment on your posts. It is what it is, I know I am not you. From reading your posts, you seem frustrated, that's what I get out of them. The point I am trying to get you to understand is that YOU are the one who is allowing people to interfere with your relax time. You are giving people that power over you. You do not have to. I don't want you to be me, and I KNOW I am not you. I only want you to be able to relax in the game you claim love and know that you can do that regardless of sharing or blind invite requests. That is all.

But she's not going to relax, because it irritates her.

And most men would have already gathered from her responses, that no amount of arguing on your part is going to keep it from irritating her.

It doesn't matter weather you think she's wrong to feel that way; She simply feels that way.

Kinda like going on a blind date; If the other person finds you completely unattractive, you've got a snowballs prayer in hell of getting another date. You can put up a good argument on why she should give you a chance, how you're a " great catch ", ect., but you're still most likely gonna spend next Sat. night at home, by yourself. ( Right Tot??? )

Clearer for ya?;)

[Kalari]

Its okay Bandy Im allowing people who are rude to affect me so im eliminating this buy becoming anti social. No more ranting from me it bugs people from what I can tell.

[bandyman1]

Its okay Bandy Im allowing people who are rude to affect me so im eliminating this buy becoming anti social. No more ranting from me it bugs people from what I can tell.

Pfft don't even sweat it Kal.

You're far from alone in your feelings on this. Most of the Vets ( at least the ones I run with, and that's pretty far-reaching on Argo ) feel the exact same way. Dude's arguing for the sake of arguing, and because he enjoys it. Gives me a pretty clear insight into his social life outside of an internet board if he behaves that way in everyday life, I'd wager.

Keep-on-kepping-on hun. You've made several posts in an attempt to bridge the apparent divide between the newer peeps and the vets. Your good intentions speak for themselves by that pretty green bar under your name, and by the fact that most of us are interested in reading your posts.

[Magusrex777]

But she's not going to relax, because it irritates her.

And most men would have already gathered from her responses, that no amount of arguing on your part is going to keep it from irritating her.

It doesn't matter weather you think she's wrong to feel that way; She simply feels that way.

Kinda like going on a blind date; If the other person finds you completely unattractive, you've got a snowballs prayer in hell of getting another date. You can put up a good argument on why she should give you a chance, how you're a " great catch ", ect., but you're still most likely gonna spend next Sat. night at home, by yourself. ( Right Tot??? )

Clearer for ya?;)

This is a public forum, if you post or rant here, people will comment on what you post. If you don't want comments don't post. Clearer for ya? ;)

[Kalari]

Pfft don't even sweat it Kal.

You're far from alone in your feelings on this. Most of the Vets ( at least the ones I run with, and that's pretty far-reaching on Argo ) feel the exact same way. Dude's arguing for the sake of arguing, and because he enjoys it. Gives me a pretty clear insight into his social life outside of an internet board if he behaves that way in everyday life, I'd wager.

Keep-on-kepping-on hun. You've made several posts in an attempt to bridge the apparent divide between the newer peeps and the vets. Your good intentions speak for themselves by that pretty green bar under your name, and by the fact that most of us are interested in reading your posts.

Thanks Bandy :) I thought maybe I am getting to be a broken record I have tried to say this is not a new player issue but a rude player issue. I just dont know how it always gets turned around as being my fault so I figured id just quit giving them the reason and take myself out of the equation. I like helping new players out like seeing them fall for the game but if the price of helping the good ones means putting up with so many bad I just dont know if I have it in me any more for that. After the other night having some jerk spam the advice and general chat with just blantant obscenities I realized the games changing and im going to have to learn to isolate myself from it to not let it get to me and its sad.

[bandyman1]

This is a public forum, if you post or rant here, people will comment on what you post. If you don't want comments don't post. Clearer for ya? ;)

Of course you will.

Most people posting on an interent board know that there are going to be peeps who will argue anything posted, just for the sake of arguing it.

Most men who have, or have had, successful relationships simply know that changing someone's " feelings " isn't going to happen. Best you can hope for is some kind of compromise on the matter.

Hope that one's crystal ;).

[Magusrex777]

Pfft don't even sweat it Kal.

You're far from alone in your feelings on this. Most of the Vets ( at least the ones I run with, and that's pretty far-reaching on Argo ) feel the exact same way. Dude's arguing for the sake of arguing, and because he enjoys it. Gives me a pretty clear insight into his social life outside of an internet board if he behaves that way in everyday life, I'd wager.

Keep-on-kepping-on hun. You've made several posts in an attempt to bridge the apparent divide between the newer peeps and the vets. Your good intentions speak for themselves by that pretty green bar under your name, and by the fact that most of us are interested in reading your posts.

I very much enjoy debating, so spot on there. As for social life, I am a devoted husband, a proud father of a beautiful daughter and I manage a large office that does give me some time during the day to post here. There is not a lot of time for socializing because I take those three things so seriously but I am a very content and happy man. I married the right girl, 16 years and still in love. Was that your impression of me outside of an internet board? It is the truth, regardless.

[Magusrex777]

Of course you will.

Most people posting on an interent board know that there are going to be peeps who will argue anything posted, just for the sake of arguing it.

Most men who have, or have had, successful relationships simply know that changing someone's " feelings " isn't going to happen. Best you can hope for is some kind of compromise on the matter.

Hope that one's crystal ;).

I am not arguing for the sake of it, I like this topic but ignore many others. I am in a successful relationship, we have learned a lot over time and have changed for each other. I think a compromise would be good between the differing opinions here. What is it though? It seems to be eluding us. I offered a while back that when you see a share, assume the person has good reason for asking and if you are refused a share or are ignored when you ask we can assume you have good reason for that too. Just play and have fun, don't sweat the small stuff.

[Zaodan]

There is a lot of social value in accepting blind invites and then continuing to do what you were doing.

It teaches the "inviter" not to blind invite.
It teaches them to actually learn to send /tells to people asking them if they are interested in joining.
It teaches them to use the Who panel, to filter it by class/level, and use that to pro-actively find people for their group.
It teaches them to respect other people's play time.

There are many social benefits to accepting blind invites then slacking off. It makes the game better. So, I'm all for it.

[bandyman1]

I very much enjoy debating, so spot on there. As for social life, I am a devoted husband, a proud father of a beautiful daughter and I manage a large office that does give me some time during the day to post here. There is not a lot of time for socializing because I take those three things so seriously but I am a very content and happy man. I married the right girl, 16 years and still in love. Was that your impression of me outside of an internet board? It is the truth, regardless.


Then we have much in common, only I have two daughters, and I don't manage an office, I'm an RT. Still leaves me surfing the boards when I'm just hanging in the Cardiopulmanary department.

But I was pretty spot on in my impression that you don't socialize much.

Look at it like this man; It's like religion. Religious people " feel " that God exists. We can't provide you with hard evidence that He exists, we simply " feel " it. No amount of arguing about it is going to change our minds on the matter.

Most people recognize this; That's why there's the old warning about bringing up religion and politics as a matter of discussion.

A lot of people feel that " Share plz " and blind invites are rude. You're not going to change our minds about it. Arguing that it isn't is a waste of time. You might as well be yelling your opinion at a brick wall.

You can rant back with " Yeah, well it's a public board, and I'll type what I want ". And you're right; You can. But it doesn't accomplish a **** thing.

[DoctorWhofan]

WRONG, I tell them to put up LFM and wait, that is what it is used for and if I wanted to group, I would click on one. Bad advice.

Do Not send blind tells to people you don't know either. Because you are interrupting their game play and fun. Be considerate and leave them alone.

Incorrect. Blind tells do not stop your gaming. It's just a "ding". Blind invites are for they throw up a popup that gets in your way and can have devastating conquences. I'll take Blind tells anyday of the week. at least they have to put words together and TELL me what they want to do (in most cases, I have gotten a few that just said, "wanna party?")

[DoctorWhofan]

I HATE someone sending me blind invites / tells while I an in a dungeon (especially when solo).

If I wanted to group, I would look at the LFM / pop an LFG on myself. I ignore blind invites, tells, or general / advice / trade channel LFMs....

If you are too stupid to use the proper tool, I don't want to group with you. Obviously, you most likely won't listen to directions within a dungeon and get the group killed.

PS - Hi Welcome! :)

I disagree. I send tells when I am trying to fill a group. Always in level range. I still keep my LFM up. I din't see a problem with that cuz sometimes people are selling, repairing, chatting in Guild chat, PvP, soloing favour quests and either don't have the group window up or have so many windows up they don't see the LFM.

I think you are stressing out too much. If you don't want to join, then don't do anything about the tell. At least you got the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to be polite and respectful, rather throwing a blind invite up.

[Magusrex777]

Then we have much in common, only I have two daughters, and I don't manage an office, I'm an RT. Still leaves me surfing the boards when I'm just hanging in the Cardiopulmanary department.

But I was pretty spot on in my impression that you don't socialize much.

Look at it like this man; It's like religion. Religious people " feel " that God exists. We can't provide you with hard evidence that He exists, we simply " feel " it. No amount of arguing about it is going to change our minds on the matter.

Most people recognize this; That's why there's the old warning about bringing up religion and politics as a matter of discussion.

A lot of people feel that " Share plz " and blind invites are rude. You're not going to change our minds about it. Arguing that it isn't is a waste of time. You might as well be yelling your opinion at a brick wall.

You can rant back with " Yeah, well it's a public board, and I'll type what I want ". And you're right; You can. But it doesn't accomplish a **** thing.

I disagree and comparing this to a debate over religion or God is quite a stretch. Truth be told I don't think I can reach Kal, she has already implied she is considering withdrawing some over this and other issues(A shame). Someone might get something from message I am trying to get across which isn't "be like me". It is, don't sweat the small stuff, don't give others power over you in any circumstance specifically when you are trying to relax. Being happy is a choice, not letting the small stuff bother you is a simple choice. It is not not like I understood these things when I was 20. I have helped people come to understand these things and have seen the results, if I reach one person who reads these things great, it doesn't have to be Kal. This topic is presenting itself to me and Kal is a continuous poster who I can use as a reference. I do not apologize for this because it is a public forum. I only want her to be able to relax without others being able to intrude, but I am a Troll so no worries :)

[Magusrex777]

I disagree. I send tells when I am trying to fill a group. Always in level range. I still keep my LFM up. I din't see a problem with that cuz sometimes people are selling, repairing, chatting in Guild chat, PvP, soloing favour quests and either don't have the group window up or have so many windows up they don't see the LFM.

I think you are stressing out too much. If you don't want to join, then don't do anything about the tell. At least you got the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to be polite and respectful, rather throwing a blind invite up.

Derail attempt, your forum handle made me decide to get interested in Doctor Who. We have enjoyed other BBC shows, we really enjoyed BallyKissAngel. We have been loving Doctor Who and are upset because we see advertisements for a different Doctor...Why are they doing this?

[Pollyester]

After the other night having some jerk spam the advice and general chat with just blantant obscenities I realized the games changing and im going to have to learn to isolate myself from it to not let it get to me and its sad.
That type of behavior is unacceptable and I can sympathize with the frustration many of the long time players must feel when they are confronted with that sort of thing.

It's a shame that you feel isolating yourself is the answer (and I'm not being judgemental, you must do what you feel is right for you, and nobody else can make that decision for you.)



A lot of people feel that " Share plz " and blind invites are rude. You're not going to change our minds about it. Arguing that it isn't is a waste of time. You might as well be yelling your opinion at a brick wall.

I got the impression that the poster you're responding to was not so much saying that blind invites and so on aren't rude, but by not letting such rudeness be something that lessens your enjoyment of the game.

Some people are better at letting things roll off their back than others. I, personally am a bit on the high strung side with a low tolerance for what I see is stupidity and rubbish. Blind invites to both party and guild drive me nuts. I'm new to DDO but not gaming in general and this has never been behavior that I find acceptable.

My solution has been to turn off chat channels, go anonymous on my cleric and my sole grouping experience has been with my husband only. Is that the best way to enjoy DDO? Nah, not really, I sometimes feel we are missing out on some aspects of the game but we are learning and enjoying ourselves in our own way. *shrug*


Derail attempt, your forum handle made me decide to get interested in Doctor Who. We have enjoyed other BBC shows, we really enjoyed BallyKissAngel. We have been loving Doctor Who and are upset because we see advertisements for a different Doctor...Why are they doing this?

/derail
Just posted to say I used to love watching BallyKissAngel...I miss that show. :( I missed the last season of Doctor Who because I guess the SciFi channel did not pick it up and I don't have access to the BBC channel.

[DoctorWhofan]

Derail attempt, your forum handle made me decide to get interested in Doctor Who. We have enjoyed other BBC shows, we really enjoyed BallyKissAngel. We have been loving Doctor Who and are upset because we see advertisements for a different Doctor...Why are they doing this?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=222886

read that thread

Adding: this is the Doctor's 10th regenration, andthe 11th doctor (coming up) He's an alien from a planet called Gallifrey. The show is going on 50 years.

[Dark_Helmet]

I HATE someone sending me blind invites / tells while I an in a dungeon (especially when solo).

If I wanted to group, I would look at the LFM / pop an LFG on myself. I ignore blind invites, tells, or general / advice / trade channel LFMs....

If you are too stupid to use the proper tool, I don't want to group with you. Obviously, you most likely won't listen to directions within a dungeon and get the group killed.

I disagree. I send tells when I am trying to fill a group. Always in level range. I still keep my LFM up. I din't see a problem with that cuz sometimes people are selling, repairing, chatting in Guild chat, PvP, soloing favour quests and either don't have the group window up or have so many windows up they don't see the LFM.

I think you are stressing out too much.

So I won't group with you if you send the tell before I see the LFM. I feel that is impolite.

I am not stressing:
I also tell my kid to be polite to their elders, don't interrupt while someone is talking and don't scream in public. If other kids see my explaining that to my kid maybe they will learn it isn't nice. Maybe people reading this will realize it is rude to spam.

Blind invites is like telemarketers calling my phone. If I wanted their product, I would call them on my time.
I equate what you are doing to unsolicited junkmail/spam which I will never respond to as it reinforces the bad behaviour. If it was someone I know (such as someone I ran with before asking for some help thru a dungeon), I will respond to as this is mail that is addressed to me by someone I know (not some spamming of addresses just because it shows up in a Who listing).

Have a nice day.

[Zippo]

Sorry, but if you post on a public forum people will comment on your posts. It is what it is, I know I am not you. From reading your posts, you seem frustrated, that's what I get out of them. The point I am trying to get you to understand is that YOU are the one who is allowing people to interfere with your relax time. You are giving people that power over you. You do not have to. I don't want you to be me, and I KNOW I am not you. I only want you to be able to relax in the game you claim love and know that you can do that regardless of sharing or blind invite requests. That is all.


You're not understanding that shes not the only one who is frustrated. With that when other peoples habits, tendencies, action, etc are interfering with hers or anyone elses enjoyment of the game, that is the fault of the offender not the offendee. Personal responsibility is the key. If she is not openly advertising for interuptions then she is well within her rights to get upset and NOT let it roll off of her back.

Lets put it in a more real context. If you're at work (for sake of the argument we'll say you work in an office building in a cubicle somewhere on the 3 floor or something) and Kalari calls you on your cellphone that you didn't turn on vibrate creating a disturbance that your boss notices. You answer it and tell her hey don't call me at work you'll get me in trouble. She doesn't listen to you though and calls back. And again, and again, and again. Finally your boss comes over and says, Johnson you're getting written up for these disruptive phonecalls at work. Who's to blame? You for getting the calls and getting upset at her or her for continually calling??? Sure you could've turned the phone off but then if your wife or kids called with an emergency you wouldn't find out till after work. She is impeding on your routine with hers.

Now apply that to the game.

You keep calling her (sending blind invites in this case)
She gets upsets and vents about it (she gets upset and vents about it either in game or on the forums)
She has to either shut the phone off or deal with the boss (she either goes anon and turns off all invites, inconveniencing her routine or deals with your **** ruining her fun)

Kalari I believe I got that right and if it's wrong feel free to correct it as needed. For what it's worth its about how I feel about it but I'm just going a step further instead of shutting off the phone I just turn around and go to his job site and get in the way.

[Zippo]

Pfft don't even sweat it Kal.

You're far from alone in your feelings on this. Most of the Vets ( at least the ones I run with, and that's pretty far-reaching on Argo ) feel the exact same way. Dude's arguing for the sake of arguing, and because he enjoys it. Gives me a pretty clear insight into his social life outside of an internet board if he behaves that way in everyday life, I'd wager.

Keep-on-kepping-on hun. You've made several posts in an attempt to bridge the apparent divide between the newer peeps and the vets. Your good intentions speak for themselves by that pretty green bar under your name, and by the fact that most of us are interested in reading your posts.

Given his previous arguments in other threads he likes to play the bleeding heart you're mean argument to anyone who isn't all accepting of the new people.

[Zippo]

Of course you will.

Most people posting on an interent board know that there are going to be peeps who will argue anything posted, just for the sake of arguing it.

Most men who have, or have had, successful relationships simply know that changing someone's " feelings " isn't going to happen. Best you can hope for is some kind of compromise on the matter.

Hope that one's crystal ;).

Heh even the one's with failed relationships know that.

[Veodore]

Given his previous arguments in other threads he likes to play the bleeding heart you're mean argument to anyone who isn't all accepting of the new people.

Is this really a new player issue? I mean, there were blind invites when I was trying out beta on this game. It's more now, but there's more people. If the blind invites weren't more common, something weird would be going on.

[Rabbi_Hordo]

Is this really a new player issue? I mean, there were blind invites when I was trying out beta on this game. It's more now, but there's more people. If the blind invites weren't more common, something weird would be going on.


I may just have a different take on this so my own internal processes may have gotten in the way.

My side is that I hate blind invites...that are spammed. I can handle one or two every so often and lord knows it is usually a guildie or a friend trying to ninja invite me into a party where there is a big chance of my causing a spectacular party wipe. But once I've declined and you don't seem to get the point that I didn't recognize your toon name as a friend/guildie and you invite me again...I start to get irked.

I guess I read the thread with that in mind and gave folks the benefit of the doubt that once they can forget, twice they start to get peeved.

[Zippo]

Is this really a new player issue? I mean, there were blind invites when I was trying out beta on this game. It's more now, but there's more people. If the blind invites weren't more common, something weird would be going on.

While it is not a complete new player issue, it is an issue that was MUCH MUCH MUUUUCH less frequent before EU. I would end up with the odd ball blind invite maybe once or twice a month. Now I'm lucky if I don't go a day without 5 of them.

[Kalari]

You're not understanding that shes not the only one who is frustrated. With that when other peoples habits, tendencies, action, etc are interfering with hers or anyone elses enjoyment of the game, that is the fault of the offender not the offendee. Personal responsibility is the key. If she is not openly advertising for interuptions then she is well within her rights to get upset and NOT let it roll off of her back.

Lets put it in a more real context. If you're at work (for sake of the argument we'll say you work in an office building in a cubicle somewhere on the 3 floor or something) and Kalari calls you on your cellphone that you didn't turn on vibrate creating a disturbance that your boss notices. You answer it and tell her hey don't call me at work you'll get me in trouble. She doesn't listen to you though and calls back. And again, and again, and again. Finally your boss comes over and says, Johnson you're getting written up for these disruptive phonecalls at work. Who's to blame? You for getting the calls and getting upset at her or her for continually calling??? Sure you could've turned the phone off but then if your wife or kids called with an emergency you wouldn't find out till after work. She is impeding on your routine with hers.

Now apply that to the game.

You keep calling her (sending blind invites in this case)
She gets upsets and vents about it (she gets upset and vents about it either in game or on the forums)
She has to either shut the phone off or deal with the boss (she either goes anon and turns off all invites, inconveniencing her routine or deals with your **** ruining her fun)

Kalari I believe I got that right and if it's wrong feel free to correct it as needed. For what it's worth its about how I feel about it but I'm just going a step further instead of shutting off the phone I just turn around and go to his job site and get in the way.

You got it exactly right and I really thought maybe its me maybe I put myself out there to be harrassed by you know not hiding in a social game. But it really is not my fault if I want to join a group I click join I dont mind tells tells dont bug me blind invite boxes do and it has caused me plenty of problems while soloing.

To take a more serious tone on this when I read stuff that Mag says to me about this (without knowing me personally) it reminds me of a very bad situation from my past. I was involved in a serious crime something that shaped who I am today. I once opened up to someone about it and the person callously said "hey it happens get over it." sure the person probably didnt mean to be so flippant about it or maybe they did but it stung still. So yes there are times I take things to heart but I truly try not to jump the gun unless its a continued problem. The blind invites have been very bad when im not anonymous or have not disabled invites and I used to not disable invites just in case guild members or friends needed to chat with me really quick.

Having to do the above to stop blind inviters interfere with that. But its as I said before I am who I am I cant change it and certainly a game forums and the opinions of said forums isnt going to change me either.

[DoctorWhofan]

You got it exactly right and I really thought maybe its me maybe I put myself out there to be harrassed by you know not hiding in a social game. But it really is not my fault if I want to join a group I click join I dont mind tells tells dont bug me blind invite boxes do and it has caused me plenty of problems while soloing.

To take a more serious tone on this when I read stuff that Mag says to me about this (without knowing me personally) it reminds me of a very bad situation from my past. I was involved in a serious crime something that shaped who I am today. I once opened up to someone about it and the person callously said "hey it happens get over it." sure the person probably didnt mean to be so flippant about it or maybe they did but it stung still. So yes there are times I take things to heart but I truly try not to jump the gun unless its a continued problem. The blind invites have been very bad when im not anonymous or have not disabled invites and I used to not disable invites just in case guild members or friends needed to chat with me really quick.

Having to do the above to stop blind inviters interfere with that. But its as I said before I am who I am I cant change it and certainly a game forums and the opinions of said forums isnt going to change me either.

/high five Kalari

[Magusrex777]

You're not understanding that shes not the only one who is frustrated. With that when other peoples habits, tendencies, action, etc are interfering with hers or anyone elses enjoyment of the game, that is the fault of the offender not the offendee. Personal responsibility is the key. If she is not openly advertising for interuptions then she is well within her rights to get upset and NOT let it roll off of her back.

I do understand Zippo, but she is letting them win. How is it all working out for you all this way? I am just saying, ask yourself, what are these actions really doing to you? How does it make me feel? Do I get mad, angry, sad or frustrated, whatever it is. If just make the simple choice, and that is all it is. I am just going to play and have fun, would I be better off? If the venting, punishing booting, blacklisting, educating or whatever you are trying to do to fix the game IE make more enjoyable is working for you. Have it, keep it up. All I know is what people do or say in game, has no effect or power over my enjoyment. People don't play exactly how I wantor behave exactly how I want. I want to relax and have fun so I make that my priority, by golly it works.


Lets put it in a more real context. If you're at work (for sake of the argument we'll say you work in an office building in a cubicle somewhere on the 3 floor or something) and Kalari calls you on your cellphone that you didn't turn on vibrate creating a disturbance that your boss notices. You answer it and tell her hey don't call me at work you'll get me in trouble. She doesn't listen to you though and calls back. And again, and again, and again. Finally your boss comes over and says, Johnson you're getting written up for these disruptive phonecalls at work. Who's to blame? You for getting the calls and getting upset at her or her for continually calling??? Sure you could've turned the phone off but then if your wife or kids called with an emergency you wouldn't find out till after work. She is impeding on your routine with hers.

Sorry in my world this would be my fault without question. This doesn't directly apply either, if the blind invite or request of share had direct effect on your ability to support your family that is a big thing. I never said don't sweat the big things. I said don't sweat the small stuff. When you make the decision to not sweat the small stuff you will be surprised how much is there and little there is under the big stuff. Getting to issue one, after the second call, I am calling home and turning off my off phone. Calling my cell company to have Kal blocked from calling me.



Now apply that to the game.

You keep calling her (sending blind invites in this case)
She gets upsets and vents about it (she gets upset and vents about it either in game or on the forums)
She has to either shut the phone off or deal with the boss (she either goes anon and turns off all invites, inconveniencing her routine or deals with your **** ruining her fun)

Kalari I believe I got that right and if it's wrong feel free to correct it as needed. For what it's worth its about how I feel about it but I'm just going a step further instead of shutting off the phone I just turn around and go to his job site and get in the way.

It doesn't apply, one can easily be ignored and one could cost you your job. If getting a blind invite or a share request is that serious to you folks. Wow, I totally misunderstood. How do you folks function when so many things are so serious? That is a lot of stress. I would recommend you try really hard to evaluate what is truly important and if this issue still falls on the more serious side do what you can, fight it full force but I don't think there is anything you can do. It is like trying to fix a failing levee with your finger.

[Magusrex777]

You got it exactly right and I really thought maybe its me maybe I put myself out there to be harrassed by you know not hiding in a social game. But it really is not my fault if I want to join a group I click join I dont mind tells tells dont bug me blind invite boxes do and it has caused me plenty of problems while soloing.

To take a more serious tone on this when I read stuff that Mag says to me about this (without knowing me personally) it reminds me of a very bad situation from my past. I was involved in a serious crime something that shaped who I am today. I once opened up to someone about it and the person callously said "hey it happens get over it." sure the person probably didnt mean to be so flippant about it or maybe they did but it stung still. So yes there are times I take things to heart but I truly try not to jump the gun unless its a continued problem. The blind invites have been very bad when im not anonymous or have not disabled invites and I used to not disable invites just in case guild members or friends needed to chat with me really quick.

Having to do the above to stop blind inviters interfere with that. But its as I said before I am who I am I cant change it and certainly a game forums and the opinions of said forums isnt going to change me either.

Sorry you got hurt when you opened up and maybe I understand a little more. It makes a lot more sense to me. I play a cleric almost exclusively, I don't get many blind invites at all and when I do I still choose to not let it effect me. You feel the way you feel, I get that. What are you going to do though? You said you loved this game in a previous post. I still stay if you aren't interested in anon, don't give people power of your enjoyment. Screw that, you own your time. Even if the blind invite messes with your solo, giving the jerk grief over or letting him/her know it bothered you might entice them to do it again. I have never accepted a blind invite or sent one out but my power to ignore is amazing.

P.S Really sorry about you being involved in a serious crime, take care. I hope you can still find and accept joy in your life. I have some experience with someone very close to me that has been the victim of worst kind of crime. They would tell you, no one has helped them more than me. Good luck

[Zippo]

I do understand Zippo, but she is letting them win. How is it all working out for you all this way? I am just saying, ask yourself, what are these actions really doing to you? How does it make me feel? Do I get mad, angry, sad or frustrated, whatever it is. If just make the simple choice, and that is all it is. I am just going to play and have fun, would I be better off? If the venting, punishing booting, blacklisting, educating or whatever you are trying to do to fix the game IE make more enjoyable is working for you. Have it, keep it up. All I know is what people do or say in game, has no effect or power over my enjoyment. People don't play exactly how I wantor behave exactly how I want. I want to relax and have fun so I make that my priority, by golly it works.



Sorry in my world this would be my fault without question. This doesn't directly apply either, if the blind invite or request of share had direct effect on your ability to support your family that is a big thing. I never said don't sweat the big things. I said don't sweat the small stuff. When you make the decision to not sweat the small stuff you will be surprised how much is there and little there is under the big stuff. Getting to issue one, after the second call, I am calling home and turning off my off phone. Calling my cell company to have Kal blocked from calling me.



It doesn't apply, one can easily be ignored and one could cost you your job. If getting a blind invite or a share request is that serious to you folks. Wow, I totally misunderstood. How do you folks function when so many things are so serious? That is a lot of stress. I would recommend you try really hard to evaluate what is truly important and if this issue still falls on the more serious side do what you can, fight it full force but I don't think there is anything you can do. It is like trying to fix a failing levee with your finger.

DO NOT tell me you are that obtuse that you could not get the context in which that was being placed in the example. Of course they are not one in the same I was merely giving a metaphor to what she was talking about to make it easier for you to get. Obviously though the intent is lost on you and no further argument on your part is needed because you are being willfully ignorant to the intent.

[Magusrex777]

DO NOT tell me you are that obtuse that you could not get the context in which that was being placed in the example. Of course they are not one in the same I was merely giving a metaphor to what she was talking about to make it easier for you to get. Obviously though the intent is lost on you and no further argument on your part is needed because you are being willfully ignorant to the intent.

No Zippo, the analogy was way off. I am saying, have said and will continue to say. Don't sweat the small stuff. Come up with something that intermittently interferes in a minor fashion with your entertainment time and I will see your point. I am not being willfully ignorant, I do not even think you understand what that means. I disagree that you made a good analogy, that is all.

I know what you were trying to say about the person giving offense versus the person receiving it. It does not apply though. I am saying do not give people power over you or your enjoyment of something. Don't compare legitimate workplace harassment to what happens in DDO.

[Zippo]

No Zippo, the analogy was way off. I am saying, have said and will continue to say. Don't sweat the small stuff. Come up with something that intermittently interferes in a minor fashion with your entertainment time and I will see your point. I am not being willfully ignorant, I do not even think you understand what that means. I disagree that you made a good analogy, that is all.

I know what you were trying to say about the person giving offense versus the person receiving it. It does not apply though. I am saying do not give people power over you or your enjoyment of something. Don't compare legitimate workplace harassment to what happens in DDO.

Harassment is harassment and the blame should be placed accordingly! That's what you are willfully being ignorant too (and I am well aware of it's meaning as it was used properly then and still now, you however may want to consider researching it if you think it was not) It doesn't matter if the harassment is in the workplace I.E. receiving phone calls that get you into trouble or someone harassing you in the game I.E. blind invites. The analogy was more then reasonable, you however vehemently choose to argue against any standpoint I make for the sheer sake of arguing with me. You have proven it in the past and continue to prove it here and now. So again no further argument on your part is needed as you will only serve to distort and argue on a basis of willful ignorance.

[aerieon]

Harassment is harassment and the blame should be placed accordingly! That's what you are willfully being ignorant too (and I am well aware of it's meaning as it was used properly then and still now, you however may want to consider researching it if you think it was not) It doesn't matter if the harassment is in the workplace I.E. receiving phone calls that get you into trouble or someone harassing you in the game I.E. blind invites. The analogy was more then reasonable, you however vehemently choose to argue against any standpoint I make for the sheer sake of arguing with me. You have proven it in the past and continue to prove it here and now. So again no further argument on your part is needed as you will only serve to distort and argue on a basis of willful ignorance.

Harassment is a strong word, I can't say someone sending you 1 blind invite is harassment. Although if they repeatedly sent blind invites/duel requests/tradewindow's/etc that could be considered harassment. My only point is magnatude..

Anyways back to your reguarly scheduled thread.

[Zippo]

Harassment is a strong word, I can't say someone sending you 1 blind invite is harassment. Although if they repeatedly sent blind invites/duel requests/tradewindow's/etc that could be considered harassment. My only point is magnatude..

Anyways back to your reguarly scheduled thread.

To some people the one is enough to be considered harassment. To some just the blind tell asking them is enough to be considered harassment. It is all a matter of viewpoint for that. If the person finds those actions to be harassment, they are well within their rights to believe that it is and vent about it.

[adsecula]

Found this thread interesting since it might shed some lights on the hole /tell situation it turned harsh real fast there a second though. Not very informative I’m sure some even find it entertaining but getting back to the point…

I think it’s all about trial and error. When I don’t make my own LFM I hang back and do whatever it takes to burn time till they fill. That may take a while sometimes even longer time than I had originally had set off for the quest (and filling of the LFM). Knowing it takes time I don’t sweat it that much anymore but still… after 30 min. even the most harden player gets a little tired. Especially if the team is only half filled. Not sure when or how others look at it but I tend to join later when its 1 or 2 spots left. That way I know either we can go just 5 or someone like me would join now that the team is ready to go. After all this… my point is this: I have had great success sending /tells and asking nicely if they have time for a quest or two. Not sure why someone would send blind invites… but maybe they have had the same success I have had with /tells? I wouldn’t know. But as I said… I have great success asking so why would I stop? I don’t like waiting 30 – 60 min. every time I have to fill a LFM. Granted it gets easier when you start having your friends-list filled. But I have only been here a month and I still trying to keep track of a hundred alts (not mine others ofc =) so sitting around with 50 good friends that have been with you for 3 years helps and may give you a air of "I don’t have to LFM?" I don’t know... just trying to say my peace I guess.

Why does it have to be so final? I mean is it always the one or the other? I have joined blinds after I have asked what they are doing. (Sending a /tell to the inviter) I don’t really get mad but rather a little annoyed when I receive blinds. If I get hit 3 times by the same person I send a tell asking them “plz stop spamming me,” takes me about 5 sec to write. Usually they stop if not then Turbine have given us a nice tool to handle that situation. I don’t get any more fired up than that? So is it that way? Do my /tells burn you that much? Or is there room for an old wolf to work his magic? If you feel your offended by my /tells I am truly sorry. Add me to whatever blacklist you need. Send me a message and ill send you a list of my alts. (I’m in Orien)

I a huge fan of the "don’t let it get to you" mentality. A lot easier to write than to live by though…

[aerieon]

To some people the one is enough to be considered harassment. To some just the blind tell asking them is enough to be considered harassment. It is all a matter of viewpoint for that. If the person finds those actions to be harassment, they are well within their rights to believe that it is and vent about it.

While I will agree it is their point of view, they will unfortunatly have very little support that a 1 time event is considered harasment. Espically if you try and bug turbine about it, take it to court, etc. Now to just come and vent about it /shrug i guess that's what the forums are for, but like I said a 1 time event really isn't harassment since that involves more then 1 event. Maybe multiple different types of events from the same individual where each is still a 1 time hit but they are trying multiple paths. (like lets say person A sends a tell to person B, then sends a blind invite, then opens a trade window, then offers a duel request, etc) that i could see more towards harassment.

[Zippo]

Found this thread interesting since it might shed some lights on the hole /tell situation it turned harsh real fast there a second though. Not very informative I’m sure some even find it entertaining but getting back to the point…

I think it’s all about trial and error. When I don’t make my own LFM I hang back and do whatever it takes to burn time till they fill. That may take a while sometimes even longer time than I had originally had set off for the quest (and filling of the LFM). Knowing it takes time I don’t sweat it that much anymore but still… after 30 min. even the most harden player gets a little tired. Especially if the team is only half filled. Not sure when or how others look at it but I tend to join later when its 1 or 2 spots left. That way I know either we can go just 5 or someone like me would join now that the team is ready to go. After all this… my point is this: I have had great success sending /tells and asking nicely if they have time for a quest or two. Not sure why someone would send blind invites… but maybe they have had the same success I have had with /tells? I wouldn’t know. But as I said… I have great success asking so why would I stop? I don’t like waiting 30 – 60 min. every time I have to fill a LFM. Granted it gets easier when you start having your friends-list filled. But I have only been here a month and I still trying to keep track of a hundred alts (not mine others ofc =) so sitting around with 50 good friends that have been with you for 3 years helps and may give you a air of "I don’t have to LFM?" I don’t know... just trying to say my peace I guess.

Why does it have to be so final? I mean is it always the one or the other? I have joined blinds after I have asked what they are doing. (Sending a /tell to the inviter) I don’t really get mad but rather a little annoyed when I receive blinds. If I get hit 3 times by the same person I send a tell asking them “plz stop spamming me,” takes me about 5 sec to write. Usually they stop if not then Turbine have given us a nice tool to handle that situation. I don’t get any more fired up than that? So is it that way? Do my /tells burn you that much? Or is there room for an old wolf to work his magic? If you feel your offended by my /tells I am truly sorry. Add me to whatever blacklist you need. Send me a message and ill send you a list of my alts. (I’m in Orien)

I a huge fan of the "don’t let it get to you" mentality. A lot easier to write than to live by though…

To start with, most of the gaming community (notice I said most not all) are ok with the tells asking them if they would like to come along. I am personally ok with them too, I might not want to come along but at least you are giving me some information to go off of not just a big black box with accept or deny.

As for the second part, well after it happens enough, after it happens so many times you may eventually just get fed up with it too and decide to be a bit more harsh about your response. Well like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXbL_SzudtY). Everyone has their breaking point, some peoples are much further down the line then others and some people have had others whittling away at their breaking point for 3 years already before the onset of new players.

[Zippo]

While I will agree it is their point of view, they will unfortunatly have very little support that a 1 time event is considered harasment. Espically if you try and bug turbine about it, take it to court, etc. Now to just come and vent about it /shrug i guess that's what the forums are for, but like I said a 1 time event really isn't harassment since that involves more then 1 event. Maybe multiple different types of events from the same individual where each is still a 1 time hit but they are trying multiple paths. (like lets say person A sends a tell to person B, then sends a blind invite, then opens a trade window, then offers a duel request, etc) that i could see more towards harassment.

Ill just point you too my post right above this one talking about having people whittling away at the breaking point for 3 years (almost 4 now for some) before this. Consider it more of a cumulative effect.

[adsecula]

Been running around for 2 years on the other side of the pond and had no problems filling a team(used my noted /tell style). But I knew most of them my name at the end. Hard not to when your server is the same size of my pants… love the link BTW. I do get it. But I also give a lot of room to others mostly since seeing a market place #4 just blow my mind.

[Magusrex777]

Harassment is harassment and the blame should be placed accordingly! That's what you are willfully being ignorant too (and I am well aware of it's meaning as it was used properly then and still now, you however may want to consider researching it if you think it was not) It doesn't matter if the harassment is in the workplace I.E. receiving phone calls that get you into trouble or someone harassing you in the game I.E. blind invites. The analogy was more then reasonable, you however vehemently choose to argue against any standpoint I make for the sheer sake of arguing with me. You have proven it in the past and continue to prove it here and now. So again no further argument on your part is needed as you will only serve to distort and argue on a basis of willful ignorance.

I missed you Zippy, how ya been?

[Lirial]

Im off base by saying that im sick of players sending me blind invites when its clear that if I wanted in their groups id click join? Are you seriously just trying to see if you can pick at me? or are you defending the female players who may send blind invites because yeah I know not all 40 year old dudes play ddo it was just a little generalization. if its the new mentality thing yes believe me the number of blind group and guild invites went up massively with the launch of unlimited. Before it was very sporatic, now its any character I play thats not anonymous has to deal with it and thats not fun. So say im off till your dealing with it or having to hide from it dont assume to know what base im on k?

No i just mean your off base with the whole thinking that everyone thinks of you as an elitist vet, i dont think that, i think you have anger issues but thats none of my business


ill try to clarify what i meant




Oh and can I please reiterate that I said NEW MENTALITY not NEW PLAYERS
Noted



omg everything is a personal attack on people now.

isnt it?



We say join a group and speak up and get grief "oh your an elitist vet."


huh? i dont honestly even know what this sentence means



We say please dont hit invite if you see someone not in a group use the lfm "oh your an elitist vet who hates new players..'


did someone say that in this thread? i agree that sending blind invites is the sign of ultimate rudeness and noobishness , just saying



why is it because people feel that this is against new players only that were supposed to say "aww shucks its okay if you blindly invite me to your party or guild.."

I know you said you arent trying to generalize new players with your rant but youre doing it here imho



Why is it were supposed to roll over when people spam the general chat or type share when the **** giver is right in front of them?

Some mmos dont have a lfm lfg system built in so chat is the only way to find people for groups. i know this from experience. sad isnt it :/
if the quest giver is in front of them is it safe to say they dont realize such is the case? and maybe you could simply say instead of hyperventilating "hes right in front of you" ? easy enough imho



I dont care how it paints me elitist snob whatever im not going to allow my game play to change for the "give me generation of players that are about now."


It does paint you in that light i have to say. you seem like a genuinely angry person when dealing with people not on your level.


When i say your off base what i mean is youre generalizing wether you realize it or not and to me that seems off base. i actually agree with many of your points that youre trying to make and im a new player, i dont see you as an elitist vet or w/e i see you as someone who is just having a bad day maybe :/

been there done that. didnt get a t-shirt :confused:

[aerieon]

Ill just point you too my post right above this one talking about having people whittling away at the breaking point for 3 years (almost 4 now for some) before this. Consider it more of a cumulative effect.

I understand the point but it isn't harassment, if anything it's an invasion of thier privacy. Folks don't always take kindly to that being invaded weather your talking about in real life or in a video game, but the two are not the same. Hense the arguement with your verbage on harassment.

[Veodore]

Ill just point you too my post right above this one talking about having people whittling away at the breaking point for 3 years (almost 4 now for some) before this. Consider it more of a cumulative effect.

I'm the first to admit that I probably have missed something that would reconcile this, but I'm not sure I understand the point here.

I mean, earlier on the same page, you replied to my comment saying it's not a new player issue with, "While it is not a complete new player issue, it is an issue that was MUCH MUCH MUUUUCH less frequent before EU. I would end up with the odd ball blind invite maybe once or twice a month. Now I'm lucky if I don't go a day without 5 of them."

Now (later in the same page), you're saying it's not a recent thing. It's something that's whittled away at people for 3 to 4 years and they're just now reaching a breaking point. To me, that strongly says this is not a new player issue. If it was so rare before the EU (once or twice a month), I'm not sure that's a justification for the whittling effect you mention.

[Zippo]

I'm the first to admit that I probably have missed something that would reconcile this, but I'm not sure I understand the point here.

I mean, earlier on the same page, you replied to my comment saying it's not a new player issue with, "While it is not a complete new player issue, it is an issue that was MUCH MUCH MUUUUCH less frequent before EU. I would end up with the odd ball blind invite maybe once or twice a month. Now I'm lucky if I don't go a day without 5 of them."

Now (later in the same page), you're saying it's not a recent thing. It's something that's whittled away at people for 3 to 4 years and they're just now reaching a breaking point. To me, that strongly says this is not a new player issue. If it was so rare before the EU (once or twice a month), I'm not sure that's a justification for the whittling effect you mention.

Cumulative effect meaning it has happened before. Yes it has ramped up considerably since EU. It doesn't mean that it didn't irk people before when it did happen but when EU kicked off and frequency went through the damned roof yeah their breaking point was already being tested from the inconsiderate pricks who did do it before and the ones who continue to do it now.


edit: I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here knowing what cumulative means. You are aware of what it means right (and I am asking this in a rather serious manner)?

[Veodore]

Cumulative effect meaning it has happened before. Yes it has ramped up considerably since EU. It doesn't mean that it didn't irk people before when it did happen but when EU kicked off and frequency went through the damned roof yeah their breaking point was already being tested from the inconsiderate pricks who did do it before and the ones who continue to do it now.


edit: I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here knowing what cumulative means. You are aware of what it means right (and I am asking this in a rather serious manner)?

To answer your question, yes, I'm aware of the meaning. I just don't quite see how (from your description) a random blind invite every month or so could possibly have a cumulative effect on a player. I mean, I've played MMOs for years (started with early EQ1), and if a random blind invite every month or so is wearing you down, then really.... something's wrong. I've been playing MMO's for a decade now, and there is no cumulative "wearing down" from having to occasionally hit decline on a blind invite.

If "their breaking point was already being tested from the inconsiderate pricks who did do it before", and (from your own description) it happened once or twice a MONTH... well, that's quite possibly the thinnest skin I've ever seen.

[Zippo]

To answer your question, yes, I'm aware of the meaning. I just don't quite see how (from your description) a random blind invite every month or so could possibly have a cumulative effect on a player. I mean, I've played MMOs for years (started with early EQ1), and if a random blind invite every month or so is wearing you down, then really.... something's wrong. I've been playing MMO's for a decade now, and there is no cumulative "wearing down" from having to occasionally hit decline on a blind invite.

If "their breaking point was already being tested from the inconsiderate pricks who did do it before", and (from your own description) it happened once or twice a MONTH... well, that's quite possibly the thinnest skin I've ever seen.

Its the fact that people had to deal with it before and it bugged the bejesus out of them, and when EU goes live they get innundated with behavior that they already saw as rude and inconsiderate. Yes it has a cumulative effect over time. Do you gt tired of saying the same thing over and over and over again to your kids or maybe even other peoples kids depending on the subject matter? After awhile you get tired of saying the same thing over and over again regardless.

[Letrii]

To me at least, the first time or two would be an annoyance if not in the mood. It is only additional times after I have said no or asked for clarification that it becomes harassment in my book.

[Veodore]

Its the fact that people had to deal with it before and it bugged the bejesus out of them, and when EU goes live they get innundated with behavior that they already saw as rude and inconsiderate. Yes it has a cumulative effect over time. Do you gt tired of saying the same thing over and over and over again to your kids or maybe even other peoples kids depending on the subject matter? After awhile you get tired of saying the same thing over and over again regardless.

Don't get me wrong, Zippo. I agree that it's annoying. I probably complain about it every time it happens. But I just roll my eyes and hit decline.

As with the share debates, and with the casual debate, I just find it surprising that this issue is worth 10 pages of debate. I mean, at best, this "issue" deserves a "Yeah, that's annoying," and that's pretty much it.

I mean, all of these issues are normal issues in every MMO I've ever played. They come from having a game that's gaining popularity. If anything, the increase of these issues tells me the game is getting healthier. The influx means we're getting more people. Every "shr plz" person means there are probably 10 new good players out there. For every blind invite, there's probably 10 or more new players out there that are great for grouping.

Getting annoyed by this stuff is reasonable. Acting like it's breaking the game is silly (not specifying you personally on that comment, btw). It's a small, slightly annoying side-effect of a healthier game. That's it. It's not a sign that the game is going downhill. It's a sign that the game is growing stronger. The increase of idiots doesn't mean the game is shifting to an idiotic state. It just means we have many more players now, good and bad.

On a side note, I wonder what server you folks are playing on. I don't seem to be getting the "shr plz" or the blind invites on the grand scale you folks are getting them. I get them occasionally, but certainly not enough to qualify as anything more than a rare annoyance.

[Yagi]

I get these alot on my cleric. It is almost always a group that says something to the affect of "Now we can do elite!!11!1!" And generally everybody is new and does not even know the quest. It usually end up with me having a pack of stones trying to either zerg for completion or ultimately dying myself as they are almost always for quests that need people to perform well as a group in on elite. I have actually had alot of fun in these groups, I kind've like trying to make them work out.

I get them on my barb/casters now and then and its usually some low lvl that wants me to help them with some quest, usually proof is in the poison. Usually they say things like HELP upon me joining. Its pretty weird. I usually tell them how to use lfm tool to make a group for the place and I might give em spoilers if they want and then I drop and send tells if they have questions but I generally will not power a person through a quest unless its one with benchmark rewards/flags ect then I will help out.

I got a weird one on my ranger. I accept and the leader says "need trap monkey" and another group member says "thats a ranger" and the leader replies with "has a rogue splash, can do any of these traps np with gear/enc"
And of course he was absolutely correct, so he had obviously played long enough to know how to use tells and lfm ect, so that was one of the occasions where it was almost surreal to me to get a blind invite.

Its just one of those odd things that happens now and then. The person doing it is *almost* always quite young so I never get mad or mess with them, I dont go around trying to cause distress to children.

And I agree, the popup should be less intrusive. I play in mouse-look mode when on my casters or barb in combat and generally aim manually when able that box can really screw me up.

[Strakeln]

I can handle one or two every so often and lord knows it is usually a guildie or a friend trying to ninja invite me into a party where there is a big chance of my causing a spectacular party wipe.

You and I, we gotta hang out more.

CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The TRAIN WRECK is coming!

[Letrii]

You and I, we gotta hang out more.

CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The TRAIN WRECK is coming!

Now you got my train message stuck in my head.

[Pyromaniac]

Absolutely to the OP - taking every blind invite is the way to go! The blind inviters will learn eventually as they get their time wasted, just like they waste ours (and potentially get us killed as the invite box pops up constantly while you're in a life and death fight).

Personally I think blind invite from people you don't know = harrassment.

[johnnyputrid]

Tonight I actually had a good experience with a blind invite. I was just swapping gear at the bank when I got a blind invite, which I declined and sent a tell back saying I was just doing Sorrowdusk slayers for a bit. Then a few seconds later I got a tell asking if I wanted to do Tempest's Spine. It was my first raid and I had a total blast! We tried it on hard and had a near-total wipe, but we went back in on normal and completed it. It was slightly messy and there were quite a few deaths, but it got done and everyone seemed okay with that.

I managed to get in about 20-kills and I guess I pulled my weight, since nobody hollered at me for screwing up. :) Somehow I managed to stay alive for quite a while with Sor'jek chasing me around the platform, keeping him away from the clerics as best as I could. He finally got me, but I was happy to have held out as long as I did. The guys who actually knew what they were doing pulled together and rescued/rezzed everyone they could and led us raid noobs back after we released. Even with the XP hit I managed to get a little over 9,000 XP, covered the cost of my repair bill, and got my first metalline weapon and a decent mithral breastplate.

So in a rare turn of events, a blind invite turned into a really fun night for me and I got to run with a great group of people who didn't give up and allowed me to experience my first raid.

[Zaodan]

Absolutely to the OP - taking every blind invite is the way to go! The blind inviters will learn eventually as they get their time wasted, just like they waste ours (and potentially get us killed as the invite box pops up constantly while you're in a life and death fight).

Personally I think blind invite from people you don't know = harrassment.

I took a blind invite last night, as I was doing level 1-4 quests on elite for favor on my level 9 FvS. I continued to enter quest after quest on elite in the harbor while the leader who invited me blind kept typing "are you coming?" in party chat. And the great part was that since I was in quests so much of the time, he couldn't even boot me out of the party!

[Rathinosk]

I had a blind invite a while back while I was collecting leftover favor in the Harbor with my (at the time) lvl6/1 fighter/rogue. When I asked which quest he was planning to run, he just said "follow me". He led me out in the Cerulean Hills to the "Where There's Smoke" quest and ducked inside on normal. I warned him that he'd probably get no XP out of it, only favor, he just said "OK".

After rushing to his death initially, he then ran off into the distance while I was fighting. I soloed the beginning of the quest and found his stone sitting on the bridge near the farm. I ran him back to the shrine and then he just hit recall instead of resurrecting at the shrine. I asked him if he was coming back, and he said "yes".

Two more people then joined the party. They both asked where he was going and he just said "follow me". I asked if he was on his way, with no response. I waited for a bit, the additional questions of the other two guys went unanswered and they both dropped out. After a warning, I dropped out of the fool's party and finished the quest solo.

I get 2-3 blind invites every night unless I party up right away - maybe it's the rogue splash. I don't do blind invites anymore, so if you need me, please send me a tell first!