OK so i tried to pvp

[whoamilol]

I went into the wayward lobster and there was this guy who was -on fire- like flames comming off of him who was killing everyone. there was a raid party trying to organize a way to hurt him but he kept murdering all 12 of us, and there were like 6 lvl 20s in the group. he wouldn't let ANYONE down! isn't this against the rules?

[Xenus_Paradox]

Nope. Killing people in PvP is kinda what the pit is there for.

Now if he was earthgrabbing/stoning/holding/stunning you and leaving you alive, that would be considered griefing.

[Dragonhyde]

As far as I know the only rule is you can't leave someone in an unmovable state such as flesh to stone or irristable dance etc and just keep going back to extend the "time out"....they have to either kill you or be attempting to

but then I only pvp with groups of friends while waiting for someones raid timer to tick down :D

[whoamilol]

As far as I know the only rule is you can't leave someone in an unmovable state such as flesh to stone or irristable dance etc and just keep going back to extend the "time out"....they have to either kill you or be attempting to

but then I only pvp with groups of friends while waiting for someones raid timer to tick down :D

he shows up and makes everyone have to leave. he's technically greifing ppl

[Xenus_Paradox]

he shows up and makes everyone have to leave. he's technically greifing ppl

Um, no. You can stay and either find a way to beat him, or get owned repeatedly. You can also choose to leave. He's not forcing anyone to do anything.

But go ahead and file a harassment report if it makes you feel better.

[Dragonhyde]

not if he is in the pit actually pvping at least according to the way the rules are now....the pits are open to all players level 1-20 in a to the death brawl type scenario.

[whoamilol]

not if he is in the pit actually pvping at least according to the way the rules are now....the pits are open to all players level 1-20 in a to the death brawl type scenario.

how is it possible for one person to kill a raid full of people who are working together and healing each other? is he cheating?

[Dragonhyde]

eh most likely a caster from the discription, able to deal damage from across the room and cc people that close in....the group would have to use tactics to take him down...ie try to trip or stunning blow, have a bard or two attempt to fascinate etc

[Visty]

no, the raidparty just sucked

or he was a sorcerer

[mystoryflavor]

no, the raidparty just sucked

or he was a sorcerer

or he was a warforged

[whoamilol]

or he was a warforged

i know he was warforged but you couldn't see his class or level because he had so many buffs it pushed those things off the top of the screen.
quite a few fireballs and such, which is pretty indicative of sorc.

[Galbbatorix]

how is it possible for one person to kill a raid full of people who are working together and healing each other? is he cheating?

Having personal experience with a full raid group trying to kill me, no it is not cheating, you just need alot of hp, good dps, and have the group of 12 people not know what they are doing.

Now I don't agree with this person killing EVERYONE in the pit, so much that no one can enjoy their time down there, but that's a different story.

But if a full party of 12 is trying to kill this guy and he survived I gotta give him props, not many can do this.

Killing is what the pvp pit is for, so you are just going to have to live with him being down there.

[Korvek]

i know he was warforged but you couldn't see his class or level because he had so many buffs it pushed those things off the top of the screen.
quite a few fireballs and such, which is pretty indicative of sorc.

Not totally certain who, but this sounds similar to a warforged wizard I know of on Argo, though he tends toward Meteor Swarm/Horrid Wilting against anyone with Evasion, which are the only characters I bother to hop into the pit with, as I dislike playing my rather gimped casters in there.

Improved Trip ---> Dead. Worked well enough for me. You just have to be faster than him, which I admit is pretty difficult given the whole "Quickened Enlarged Otto's Irresistible dance" thing makes it hard to get near him. You can't cast backwards though.

And yeah, if your full raid couldn't beat one caster, your raid was pretty weak. For one, avoid using Reflex save based spells on any character whose class levels you can't see (Hint: If you really want to see them, turn off the Show Detailed Examination option in the UI Settings).

Your best bet is to simply use enough straight damage spells that his Repair spells are still on cooldown and he can't get himself up.

[cluedout]

lol i think you met Tukaw

Tukaw build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=181901&highlight=tukaw)

completely invulnerable except by irresistible dance, and nobody likes that in the pit.

[Beld]

But if you can stay out of his range for a few hits, most casters don't have much in the way of strength, and once he is at 0 and can't cast, he's done.

Trick is to have enough going on that he can't concentrate on just one target at a time and use flanking to your advantage as most spells require you to be facing the target.

[BLAKROC]

or he was a warforged

or a wf sorc even:D

[rh75]

Turbine needs to put level restictions on who you can pvp, ive seen it in other games and it works fine. Im sure they can come up with something.

There will always be real-life dorks who come into pvp on their high level toons and try to project their authority on low level people to compensate for how pathetic they are.

Adding some rules to stop them will actually be doing them a favor by helping to replace those missing social skills.

[HeeHaw]

Turbine needs to put level restictions on who you can pvp, ive seen it in other games and it works fine. Im sure they can come up with something.

There will always be real-life dorks who come into pvp on their high level toons and try to project their authority on low level people to compensate for how pathetic they are.

Adding some rules to stop them will actually be doing them a favor by helping to replace those missing social skills.

1. He was in there already, and the OP came in to challenge him, not the other way around.

2. There is a level limit: 20. He was 20, and he was fighting at least six other level 20's, according to the OP.

I don't see any problem with organizing different PvP taverns for different level ranges, but that does not seem to be the issue in this case.

[BLITHELY]

U do realize there are more pvp pits all over the city go 2 1 of those if u want 2 fight yr friends. When i want 2 test something or beat on a guildie I go to the phoenix tavern almost never any1 in the pit there.

[sephiroth1084]

He wasn't cheating. I've popped into the PvP pit on my drow wizard 20 and kicked the asses of the 11 other people in group with me, and a few others who popped in to try to take me down. It's definitely very difficult to take out a wizard in PvP. Doable, certainly, but difficult, even for a group of 12--wizards especially just have too many tools at their disposal that both make them hard to kill and give them a way around other characters' defenses. I managed to kill 2 guys while I was dancing--Fire Shield Red and Blue FTW! :D

The two most dangerous abilities vs. a caster, I think, are Trip and Stunning Blow. Still, it's difficult to get close enough and land that single attack, but I tend to beat casters when on my tank most often when I dodge their attacks and land a trip.

Personally, were I in your position, I'd just suggest heading to another PvP arena. Sure, the Lobster has the most interesting pit, but that just favors casters even more, as they can drop off of the open space to get some distance and heal up or restore their ability damage.

[Kerplunk]

As someone else said, you just met Tukaw, or one of his clones. Their guild name should also give you a hint that you will have a fun time trying to take them down, raid party or not.
I personally like them, as going toe-to-toe with them improves my twitch skills *immensely*
But yeah, have fun with it!
Don't take it too seriously, either.

[Arctigis]

I don't PVP much, I completely suck at it, but I had a couple of forays just for a laugh. My WF Sorc got owned by
a fighter with improved trip - the mantle of the worldshaper certainly evens things up for non-casters (otherwise
he would have been dancing).

[sephiroth1084]

I don't PVP much, I completely suck at it, but I had a couple of forays just for a laugh. My WF Sorc got owned by
a fighter with improved trip - the mantle of the worldshaper certainly evens things up for non-casters (otherwise
he would have been dancing).

It helps, certainly, but I don't think it necessarily balances things. What level was your caster? Why were you close enough for him to hit you? Did you have fire shield up (both versions)? Why bother trying to dance him when there are easier ways to take down a fighter?

Not meant as outright criticism, but more as a prompt for considering what you could do better in PvP, as unimportant a goal as that is. :)

My favorite 2 moments in PvP, to date, both involve dancing. The first was on my paladin, where I had been tearing things up, killing everyone, caster or not, until one wizard tagged me with an Irresistible Dance. While dancing, the melees surrounded me and started swinging, but were still unable to hit me due to AC, and I survived long enough for the dance to end and cleaned the floor with them!

The second was more recent: I was on my wizard this time, and got hit with Irresistible Dance, but had both versions of Fire Shield up--managed to kill 3 melees while doing a jig! :D

[Maegin]

in before the lock...

... Hi Welcome.

[Hendrik]

Smacktards ganking nubs, isn't PvP fun??!

:rolleyes:

[Arctigis]

It helps, certainly, but I don't think it necessarily balances things. What level was your caster? Why were you close enough for him to hit you? Did you have fire shield up (both versions)? Why bother trying to dance him when there are easier ways to take down a fighter?

Not meant as outright criticism, but more as a prompt for considering what you could do better in PvP, as unimportant a goal as that is. :)


I did say that I sucked at PVP ;-)
Yeah, I had all buffs up. 18th lvl at the time. I was too slow basically and got tripped. You need to get off 5 spells
to drain their mantle before you can do anything at all.

[sephiroth1084]

I did say that I sucked at PVP ;-)
Yeah, I had all buffs up. 18th lvl at the time. I was too slow basically and got tripped. You need to get off 5 spells
to drain their mantle before you can do anything at all.

Well, every time they hit you, your fire shield damage tics off a charge... Playing a caster in PvP definitely does take skill, as you have to be very mobile, and need to be able to jump-cast effectively (jump-turn-cast-land).

I'm not sure, but spells that fire multiple rays (Scorching Ray, Frost Lance) may knock charges off per ray that hits, so these might be excellent options for taking down Worldshaper charges and such.

Also, make sure you have your Pendant of Time active while in PvP!

[karnokvolrath]

This sounds about normal honestly, I dont go into the pit often, but i often watch just to see what happens. There are a good handful of WF casters on Argo that can do this, i cant name them on here, but most used to be wizzards and changed recently to wizzy/thiefs. Im assuming for evasion because there only real 1 on 1 threat where other casters. Alot of these guys where well known back when i used to play and beleave me, they havnt gotten anyworse. I can think of about 5 of them off the top of my head and most of them have similar names but are not the same guy........good luck in the pit my friend :)

[rh75]

I've pvp'd in other games and i dont buy that this is fun or normal. Actually, the minute i start having fun is usually the minute that someone drops a flamestrike or 400 pt scorching ray on my back while im not looking.

It's alright, im just gonna pass on it until im 20.

[sephiroth1084]

I've pvp'd in other games and i dont buy that this is fun or normal. Actually, the minute i start having fun is usually the minute that someone drops a flamestrike or 400 pt scorching ray on my back while im not looking.

It's alright, im just gonna pass on it until im 20.

Whether this is fun or not is highly objective, obviously, but this is normal. DDO has made absolutely zero attempt at balancing PvP, and the classes are just not designed to fight against each other well.

[assamite]

I don't PVP much, I completely suck at it, but I had a couple of forays just for a laugh. My WF Sorc got owned by
a fighter with improved trip - the mantle of the worldshaper certainly evens things up for non-casters (otherwise
he would have been dancing).

What is this mantle squishies keep accusing me of wearing?!?! All i have on is a belt of tongue... FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! It sounds like i need to get one

[toughguyjoe]

NOW i get it. Whoamilol is so amped up about changing PVP because well, He dies alot in the pit.



Excellent reason *eyeroll*

[Talish]

If you just want a friendly match with friends use a private arena. Form a raid group. Assign red or blue teams then speak with the fellow who has a red/blue icon above his head. He will take your teams to the private arenas or capture the flag.

Also more spells and abilities work in private arena's than in the pit making it more of a challenge.

[sephiroth1084]

Also more spells and abilities work in private arena's than in the pit making it more of a challenge.

Or less, depending. The only time my wizard got really badly beaten was when I stepped into a 2 v 1 against a pair of clerics. After getting ahead something like 12-1, they started putting Maximized, Empowered, Extended Blade Barriers at all the spawn points, and I'd respawn dead. Not fun at all.

[toughguyjoe]

putting Maximized, Empowered, Extended Blade Barriers at all the spawn points, and I'd respawn dead. Not fun at all.

No, just not fun...for you.


But seriously, that sounds like a pain

[sephiroth1084]

No, just not fun...for you.


But seriously, that sounds like a pain
Well, yeah...they had fun. They were cackling at me for an hour afterward, but that wasn't very sporting. Not something I'd do.

Otherwise, yes, the arena tends to be more fun for casters, as they get to use even more of their power (dancing balls, acid fog, symbols, fire wall, etc...). Even harder on melees in mixed groups, but a lot of fun for all-melee deathmatching.

[96th_Malice]

The two most dangerous abilities vs. a caster, I think, are Trip and Stunning Blow. Still, it's difficult to get close enough and land that single attack, but I tend to beat casters when on my tank most often when I dodge their attacks and land a trip.

.

You missed one !! ...... And, like you dont need to get close to use it .......

Manyshot and any form of weakening bow !

Depends on which toon I happen to be on but I have a bow now for pretty much any given occasion !!

However ....... None of those bows help me at all when I am FTS'd !!

:)

[Aeneas]

There is no defense against light spells and spells that do spiritual damage, like nimbus or deific vengeance.

Next time you see him, grab 11 clerics and tell them all to prep those spells and watch how fast said character eats it.

[sephiroth1084]

You missed one !! ...... And, like you dont need to get close to use it .......

Manyshot and any form of weakening bow !

Depends on which toon I happen to be on but I have a bow now for pretty much any given occasion !!

However ....... None of those bows help me at all when I am FTS'd !!

:)
It can be pretty nasty, but I have little experience using Manyshot vs. a caster (never bothered to take my ranger into PvP because his saves wouldn't stand up to that kind of onslaught, nor his HP). I will say, though, that as long as my wizard isn't trying to deal with too many parties at once, even guys with Manyshot aren't too big a threat.

The reason I say Trip (and assume SB), is because that tends to be how I win battles vs. casters on my paladin--dodge around ray spells while charging (making all of my saves vs. whatever spells land), and then hitting them with trip, and working them over while they're on the ground. If the trip misses, I back off out of touch attack range and strafe until the cooldown is up.

[Tumarek]

Greater Dispel Magic work very good too... and you can see his class :)

Those people are build against standart dps, everything that is different can get them.

Like Fascinate with bard (dc should be around 50) dispel his enchantments and then trip and stomp.

[sephiroth1084]

Greater Dispel Magic work very good too... and you can see his class :)

Those people are build against standart dps, everything that is different can get them.

Like Fascinate with bard (dc should be around 50) dispel his enchantments and then trip and stomp.
No one uses Dispel Magic much...I think everyone acknowledges it as cheating. I know I got a lot of people angry at me way back when when I did that. It even feels like cheating.

Maybe on a gimpy Bard it's necessary, but go pop into PvP on a wizard with no buffs, and see how much you still kick ass, then decide whether you really need to use dispel. :cool:

[assamite]

My Favorite 2 Moments In Pvp, To Date, Both Involve Dancing. The First Was On My Paladin, Where I Had Been Tearing Things Up, Killing Everyone, Caster Or Not, Until One Wizard Tagged Me With An Irresistible Dance. While Dancing, The Melees Surrounded Me And Started Swinging, But Were still Unable To Hit Me Due To Ac, And I Survived Long Enough For The Dance To End And Cleaned The Floor With Them!oh Sweet So He/she Didn't Dispell/neg Lvl/exhaust/hold Monster You

The Second Was More Recent: I Was On My Wizard This Time, And Got Hit With Irresistible Dance, But Had Both Versions Of Fire Shield Up--managed To Kill 3 Melees While Doing A Jig! :d
sweet Your A Lvl 12 With Stoneskin And Blocking Dr And You Managed To Take Out A Bunch Of Lvl 6 Twf/s@b Melee Toons


No one uses Dispel Magic much...I think everyone acknowledges it as cheating. I know I got a lot of people angry at me way back when when I did that. It even feels like cheating.I'm a lvl 20 fighter, and the only way a caster is gona win is if they are
1. A self healing WF and server lag is to bad for me to trip them
2. I have a party of people dispelling me then spamming enlarged Irresistible Dances on me.


I don't really care about being dispelled. It just sucks when you got some Drow Sorc in the pit that totally sucks nuts and has to remove my pendant of time >.<!!!! and then form a party to take you out.

[96th_Malice]

It can be pretty nasty, but I have little experience using Manyshot vs. a caster (never bothered to take my ranger into PvP because his saves wouldn't stand up to that kind of onslaught, nor his HP). I will say, though, that as long as my wizard isn't trying to deal with too many parties at once, even guys with Manyshot aren't too big a threat.

I agree that most of my rangers saves .vs FTS is pretty weak !!

BUT then again a High lvl Pally will even fail 50% of the time !!

I will disagree however that manyshot is not a threat ... I guess it depends on what toon is using it and how he plays out that 20 seconds of manyshot .. I have seen Damiya's Triple Neg bow tear through casters HP is less than 4 arrows ... JUST regular pulls ..... NO manyshot !

I guess it comes down to preparedness on both sides !!....... My hope is you'll worry more about getting your health back up rather than start casting offense spells at me !!

90% of the casters I have fought generally go into block at which point THEN I hit manyshot ..... 5 arrows over 20 seconds does a whack of damage to a non tank type EVEN when the opposing toon is blocking !! And if Lightening Strike Goes off ...... Game over. I have only ever seen Pailbeard survive that !!

Regardless .... If you are blocking you aren't casting !! AND to cast you gotta come outta block and thats where I get to see 3-6 different damage numbers ( depending on your race ... alignment .. etc )

AGAIN !!

I do realize 1 failed roll on my part and its game over for me !! Thats generally why I dont feel too bad about dumping mass amounts of arrows into a caster anymore !!

hehe

[sephiroth1084]

Um...Deathward (no neg levels), amazing saves (no Holds), no playing unfairly (no dispel), and paladins have Lesser Restore (Exhaustion last for only a moment). And on that last point--Waves of Exhaustion has a medium duration for its casting time, and the last thing you want to do in PvP is get stuck waving your arms around and walking slowly. This is especially true since you need to be facing your target and have to be relatively close.

Blocking DR, Stoneskin, Displacement and enough HP to survive some of the beating. And it was against guys in the 17-20 range (don't recall their exact levels, but we were a ToD group, so...). They may have been kinda squishy. Not sure.

If you're winning in PvP a lot on your fighter, then the casters are doing something wrong.

[assamite]

I have learned the ways of the force Cass :D and i am no longer effected by your manyshot

[sephiroth1084]

I agree that most of my rangers saves .vs FTS is pretty weak !!

BUT then again a High lvl Pally will even fail 50% of the time !!

I will disagree however that manyshot is not a threat ... I guess it depends on what toon is using it and how he plays out that 20 seconds of manyshot .. I have seen Damiya's Triple Neg bow tear through casters HP is less than 4 arrows ... JUST regular pulls ..... NO manyshot !

I guess it comes down to preparedness on both sides !!....... My hope is you'll worry more about getting your health back up rather than start casting offense spells at me !!

90% of the casters I have fought generally go into block at which point THEN I hit manyshot ..... 5 arrows over 20 seconds does a whack of damage to a non tank type EVEN when the opposing toon is blocking !! And if Lightening Strike Goes off ...... Game over. I have only ever seen Pailbeard survive that !!

Regardless .... If you are blocking you aren't casting !! AND to cast you gotta come outta block and thats where I get to see 3-6 different damage numbers ( depending on your race ... alignment .. etc )

AGAIN !!

I do realize 1 failed roll on my part and its game over for me !! Thats generally why I dont feel too bad about dumping mass amounts of arrows into a caster anymore !!

hehe

I don't know why the casters you're fighting are ever standing still. The reason I said Manyshot wasn't a great threat is because it's very difficult to hit a target running full-tilt with more than a shot or two. Even if I don't expect Manyshot, I never stand still on my caster, and if I notice that I just got tagged with 3 or 4 arrows, I'll give up even trying to cast for 15 seconds to put the evasive maneuvering on for real, before tossing a spell again.

As for paladin vs. flesh to stone... It's a Fort save. I think the max DC for any caster is around 42 (probably more like 39). My paladin has well over a 40 Fort save. That's a 5% chance of failure, not a 50. And there have been occasions where I have gotten stoned, but where the caster left me for melees to beat on, and I broke my save a minute later with over half HP still, and finished everyone off.

I'm not saying it's impossible to beat the paladin as a caster, it's just that it's very difficult, and requires the caster to not be playing too cockily. And requires some luck on their part.

[96th_Malice]

No one uses Dispel Magic much...I think everyone acknowledges it as cheating. I know I got a lot of people angry at me way back when when I did that. It even feels like cheating.:

Its quite common on Khyber .....

The second I get hit with it now .. I make sure my TS clicky wasnt removed ... then proceed to make the "Dispeller" look like a pin cushion.

The " His lvl .vs mine Rule" does not come into play here !!

:)

[Josh]

No one uses Dispel Magic much...I think everyone acknowledges it as cheating. I know I got a lot of people angry at me way back when when I did that. It even feels like cheating.

LOL. So an allowed spell is cheating? I think going into the pit to just dispel people would be a hoot. I love the arbitraty "rules" in PVP.

*headshot*
"You can't use the AWP, it's cheating!! Get a real weapon n00b"
*headshot*

[assamite]

Um...DeathwardDoes not remain when your dispelled (no neg levels), amazing savesDoes not remain when your neg LvLed (no Holds), no playing unfairly (no dispel)I wish that were true, and paladins have Lesser Restore (Exhaustion last for only a moment). And on that last point--Waves of Exhaustion has a medium duration for its casting time, and the last thing you want to do in PvP is get stuck waving your arms around and walking slowly. This is especially true since you need to be facing your target and have to be relatively close.

Blocking DRI highly recommend you don't stand there and block. Because your 6 active dr won't do much against +63 dmg , Stoneskin*Cough* Min 2, Displacement*Cough* Tharnes goggles and enough HP to survive some of the beating When you say this i hope you mean 450+... cus any less i might accidentally kill you . And it was against guys in the 17-20 range (don't recall their exact levels, but we were a ToD group, so...So... they sucked ass and had no business being in a Tod group :D ). They may have been kinda squishy. Not sure.

If you're winning in PvP a lot on your fighter, then the casters are doing something wrong.
If a caster is losing against me in PvP it's because they are not dancing me. With dancing on your side its about 50/50 depends on how well i read your movement. And when you find dancing to be a worthless tactic you will dispell... you have no choice if you want to win.If you want me to prove it my server is Khyber Ill be on this Sunday

LoL

[96th_Malice]

I don't know why the casters you're fighting are ever standing still. The reason I said Manyshot wasn't a great threat is because it's very difficult to hit a target running full-tilt with more than a shot or two. Even if I don't expect Manyshot, I never stand still on my caster, and if I notice that I just got tagged with 3 or 4 arrows, I'll give up even trying to cast for 15 seconds to put the evasive maneuvering on for real, before tossing a spell again..

Hehe .... when you play as may archers as I do and spend as much time in PvP as I do ........ Its actually pretty easy to hit you hoppin casters. I should probably get back to lvl-ing my 13th and lower lvl toons lol

Anyways !!

A - If I feel like running and chasing you down ... My toon having the same jumping pattern as you will hit you every time ! ( Provided I make the roll to hit !! )

SO .... Break up your jumps because like most casters, your jump timing becomes very predictable that its gonna be " hop - hop - hop - slide on your face - dead ! )

B - I move from the left to the right side of the room ONLY hitting you as you are running towards or running away. This hits everytime as well !! ( Provided I actually make the roll to hit !! ) Left or right side being the 2 walkways facing the ladder in The Lobster !

With that said. If I am stationary ..... My arrows as you run across left to right will hit the jumping caster caster maybe only 10% of the time making it a VERY Viable defence for you and or anyone !! So yes while you are running and jumping from Left to Right OR Right to Left I have VERY little chance of inflicting any damage provided I am stationary and at a distance from you

Hehe .... No I cant say this enough ..... These 2 methods only work if I have not failed any die rolls yet !!

:)

This in NO way is a " I'm better than casters" post ... Cause I'm not !!

BUT like anything else ............... You and myself learn from dying how to adapt !!

[assamite]

B - I move from the left to the right side of the room ONLY hitting you as you are running towards or running away.


Jumping while running toward or away from projectiles also leaves dingle berries in someones salad Cass :)

[96th_Malice]

I have learned the ways of the force Cass :D and i am no longer effected by your manyshot

( Said in stormtrooper voice )

You are no longer effected by my manyshot .... Move along ..... Move along

:)

PS: Wow just when I thought it was not possible to turn myself into a BIGGER nerd ... I take the bait on Star Wars stuff !!

[96th_Malice]

Jumping while running toward or away from projectiles also leaves dingle berries in someones salad Cass :)

mmmmmmmm salad & berries !!

[assamite]

mmmmmmmm salad & berries !!
Make sure you use your fingers and no utensils :D but nah seriously Cass

Vaapad>Arcane?
OR
Arcane>Vaapad

[Bbrik]

Cassiee I survide your lightning strike!!!!and hahaha people dispell? Lvl 16, 28pointer no raid/shroud gear lvl 20's will ganking and the new fad is

Dispell-attack-pws-neg lvl-dance-kill

and what server? Because if it was a dwarf with cold shield and non of the really really good people were there I was most likely killing you, that is my pit I took ownership of it :)

will share with friend

smalartin,cassiee,vaapad,mega ect....

But it's pvp yiu went down to brawl you didn't go down to stand there
dd you? You say that is greifing? Do people just try and get people banned for doing things they are in there to do in a place that it is meant for? And if anyone was griefing it was your party jumping down there and just annoying him

(and turbine take out...neg lvls,hold,dance,debuff,pws out of pvp!!!! It's annoying and cheap)

[sephiroth1084]

/shrug

Experience may vary should be read into any post discussing PvP.

On dispel: In my experience, either no one uses dispel, or it never seems to have an effect. I consider it kinda cheaty. Obviously, opinions differ. In any case, it's entirely unnecessary against basically anyone you'd be fighting. The only character I'd ever consider hitting with dispel is a cleric/monk 2 or a FvS/monk 2, and even then casters still have so many tools that it isn't necessary.

On dispelling my paladin: Even with neg levels, I've taken out several characters at a time. Enervation or Energy Drain won't stop or slow a character down, which means that it has to be followed up with something else, and in that time, it's possible to be on top of the caster. And it still is difficult to land when both parties are moving a lot. Besides, even without buffs, Ferrumrym will make his save vs. nearly anyone's spells. His lowest save is Will, and without buffs is in the high-20s. Add to that the bonus dwarves get vs. spells, and you're looking at between a 10 and 20% rate of failure even vs. 99% of the people in the PvP pit.

On archery: Every pit has stuff to hide behind, or to break line of sight/effect. Also, it'd be foolish to keep jumping in a regular pattern, though I admit many people do just that. I don't. I'm not denying that you'd be able to hit with a couple shots from Manyshot--just that you wouldn't hit with enough to kill or enfeeble a well-played caster if they are concentrating only on you. Obviously, if they are dodging even one other person, then that likelihood goes way up.

On fighters in PvP: Unless you're playing some saves-maximizing hybrid, your Will save is going to be mediocre at best, which opens the door to all sorts of trouble. On top of that, very few characters have enough HP to take more than one or two shots of Polar Ray or Meteor Swarm or DBF, especially those with mediocre Reflex saves.

Honestly, the most trouble I've had in recent memory on my wizard was against a monk who was super fast, mostly due to the way ray spells bug out at extremely close range. And I still managed to beat him 4 out of 5 times.

Assamite, I'll take you on, but not Sunday; it's ma birfday! And I intend to be out and about all day with family then friends.

[96th_Malice]

/shrug

Assamite, I'll take you on, but not Sunday; it's ma birfday! And I intend to be out and about all day with family then friends.

I will forget so I'll get it out now !!

Happy Bday on Sunday !!

[96th_Malice]

Make sure you use your fingers and no utensils :D but nah seriously Cass

Vaapad>Arcane?
OR
Arcane>Vaapad

Hmmmmm again its a matter of you getting to him before he gets to you !

I know what your toon is REAL good at and usually has me and most others end up way into the negs on HP !!!

BUT on the other side .....

Casters and their one shot one kill spells scare the **** outta me !

I'd pay plat out to the winner on a best of five on that fight for sure !!

( Can I borrow some plat ? ) j/k

[assamite]

On fighters in PvP: Unless you're playing some saves-maximizing hybrid, your Will save is going to be mediocre at best, which opens the door to all sorts of trouble So you don't waste your time and SP im a LvL 20 dwarf fighter with a concordant op helm that has +3 ability +3 exceptional will on it, and a Belt of tongue. On top of that, very few characters have enough HP to take more than one or two shots of Polar Ray or Meteor Swarm or DBF 667HP and firestorm greaves has me covered for the most part :), not to scared of projectile spells, especially those with mediocre Reflex saves.

Assamite, I'll take you on, but not Sunday; it's ma birfday! And I intend to be out and about all day with family then friends. Bummers

:(

[96th_Malice]

Cassiee I survide your lightning strike!!!!and hahaha people dispell? Lvl 16, 28pointer no raid/shroud gear lvl 20's will ganking and the new fad is

Dispell-attack-pws-neg lvl-dance-kill

Ya ... Thats typically the "new method" now ! The good thing is is you can usually figure out fast whos working with who and try to remove the largest threat first !

About 2 months ago we had about 6 AI guys in a party and 6 Kinghts of Winterfell guys as well ..... It was a great time.

Well ... we started off talking trash ..THEN as the night went on ( either side having a couple more beers ) We formed a 12 man Wayward Lobster Group BUT left teams disabled !

It was alot of fun ...... and the chance of getting in the Crossfire of your own Guildmates Comet Falls etc actually made it that more fun !!

I had 2 guildies REALLY angry at me when I decided to leave improved precise shot on and took them out along with the intended target !!

OH well ................ GET OUTTA THE WAY !!

heh

Basically the purpose of this was to say, as much fun as it is to PvP .... its more fun to do it in groups ... even if you are PvP-ing the same people in your group !! Its also a great way to learn about whom you are fighting !!


GREAT ..... All this PvP talk and I'm supposed to Run VON 5-6 tonight ....... Hehe I'll be there Hema !! We should have a whack of AI toons around as well !

[Bbrik]

Ya ... Thats typically the "new method" now ! The good thing is is you can usually figure out fast whos working with who and try to remove the largest threat first !

About 2 months ago we had about 6 AI guys in a party and 6 Kinghts of Winterfell guys as well ..... It was a great time.

Well ... we started off talking trash ..THEN as the night went on ( either side having a couple more beers ) We formed a 12 man Wayward Lobster Group BUT left teams disabled !

It was alot of fun ...... and the chance of getting in the Crossfire of your own Guildmates Comet Falls etc actually made it that more fun !!

I had 2 guildies REALLY angry at me when I decided to leave improved precise shot on and took them out along with the intended target !!

OH well ................ GET OUTTA THE WAY !!

heh

Basically the purpose of this was to say, as much fun as it is to PvP .... its more fun to do it in groups ... even if you are PvP-ing the same people in your group !! Its also a great way to learn about whom you are fighting !!


GREAT ..... All this PvP talk and I'm supposed to Run VON 5-6 tonight ....... Hehe I'll be there Hema !! We should have a whack of AI toons around as well !

Well after 8flagging runs I better get a spot!!!! And I swear we need AI
vs hema nights lol.... And that's my pit all this talk of people in it while at school!!!!
Need some buddies to watchy pit and keep it warm :) (no many shot w/e when vs AI haha)

[sephiroth1084]

I will forget so I'll get it out now !!

Happy Bday on Sunday !!
Thanks! :D

:(
Firestorms help vs. Meteor Swarm, but not Polar, which hits for between 400 and 900 or so damage.

So, with all that gear, you have, what? Mid-20s vs. enchantment spells?

****! Now I wanna PvP!

[96th_Malice]

On archery: Every pit has stuff to hide behind, or to break line of sight/effect. Also, it'd be foolish to keep jumping in a regular pattern, though I admit many people do just that. I don't. I'm not denying that you'd be able to hit with a couple shots from Manyshot--just that you wouldn't hit with enough to kill or enfeeble a well-played caster if they are concentrating only on you. Obviously, if they are dodging even one other person, then that likelihood goes way up.

Agreed 100% -- The key here is a "well played caster" .... which unfortunatley right now theres ALOT of "not well played casters in PvP". However I would not expect a caster or anyone to worry about a PvP specced caster when theres so moch more you can benefit from doing quests.

With that aside. Currently in PvP you get ALOT .. I mean A L O T of new toons claiming to be Tukaw builds ..... but really without Tukaw's gear and Tukaw actually running the toon himself its just a reasonalble facsimile of Tukaw !!

For the record sephiroth1084 ....coould you please stop typing this stuff and giving peeps tactical ideas lol !! ..... Most toons including casters dont even think to hop down to the lower lvl and start running around behind the walls breaking my line of site

Most of them ....... not even lying .... like 75%-80% chase me around while I am sprint boosted running backwards and kiting em around the perimeter of The Lobster wooden walkways !!

Makes my job easy cause distance works in my benefit !

[96th_Malice]

Thanks! :D

but not Polar, which hits for between 400 and 900 or so damage.

REALLY DONT LIKE THAT ONE LOL !!!

I need a bow form of that !!

[assamite]

Thanks! :D

Firestorms help vs. Meteor Swarm, but not Polar, which hits for between 400 and 900 or so damage.
Ill give you 1k for every polar ray you hit me with

So, with all that gear, you have, what? Mid-20s vs. enchantment spells?
27 vrs enchantments

****! Now I wanna PvP!

Cass... OMFG! are you serious! i have to get in range?!?!? if hese not a WF im going to dwarfen throw his ass to death! Its what i do to all the elf arcane lmfao thats why they dispell me XD i make them feel gimp

[sephiroth1084]

For the record sephiroth1084 ....coould you please stop typing this stuff and giving peeps tactical ideas lol !! ..... Most toons including casters dont even think to hop down to the lower lvl and start running around behind the walls breaking my line of site


Sure.

Casters in PvP:
-Buff before you jump into the pit: Displacement, Stoneskin, all resists, all protects, Fire Shield (both versions), Nightshield, Jump, Haste, Phiarlen Pendant of Time boost, Greater Heroism, Deathward (goggles clicky or otherwise), Rage, and if fighting other casters try to get Freedom of Movement from somewhere (depending upon how you feel about it, also consume the best food and drink from the tavern right before jumping into the pit as well)
-Keep all of your metamagics up and running: Quicken is especially important
-Make sure you have spells that: attack all 3 saves, do not allow a save, and ones that have no standard defense against
-MOVE!
-KEEP MOVING!
-DON'T STOP!
-More specifically, you should be jumping, strafing and running. Don't ever cast on the ground unless you are on the other side of the room from your target and no one else is trying to lay an axe in your head.
-Use cover. You don't need to have line of sight to your target for more than a second or two, so duck behind stuff, get furniture between you and your opponent, drop into another area (Lobster), then pop out just to toss a spell.
-Remember that persistent AoEs (Fogs, Firewall, Dancing Ball, etc...) and summons cannot be used in tavern brawls, so you might as well prep something else in place of them.
-Vary your attacks. It keeps people guessing and is more fun than just turning everyone to stone. That said, making your own statue garden is fun!
-Don't grief! Don't turn someone to stone and leave them there forever. That's just mean. Stone them, take out any other targets, then drop them.
-Prismatic Spray can be a random "I Win" button
-Spells that have a ring-effect space (Slow, Mass Hold, etc...) are pretty poor in PvP most of the time as everyone is moving around too fast for the ring to land on them, but it can be great as a sort of trap: as someone is running at you, jump in the air and cast the spell straight down, throwing the ring in front of them. Finish with a Dreamspitter or whatever else.
-Ray spells get kinda wonky if you try to cast at someone who is too close. Get some distance before throwing them out there. They also have a hard time hitting moving targets, but jumping and casting seems to have a higher success rate.

Melee
-Get as many buffs up as you can manage. Usually you won't have many. Get a buddy to buff you up if that's the game you're playing. Usually I go with a self-buff only sort of fight. Find some way of getting True Seeing, or you're pretty much screwed.
-Wear the Mantle of the Worldshaper!
-Boost your saves! If you have a saves boost from class or race, use it. Ideally, though, you're a paladin or monk.
-Take off your shield! Casters will rarely be swinging at your, and even more rarely will be able to hit your unshielded AC any better than your shielded, while you want to be clobbering them as fast as possible.
-MOVE!
-KEEP MOVING!
-You need to close the gap between you and the caster. Don't just run straight at them, because you'll die. You should be jumping and juking from side to side on your approach vector.
-USE TRIP! You will not kill a caster in one shot unless you're really, really beefy, or they are very very squishy, and you usually won't be able to get more than one or two swings in on a caster consecutively. Casters tend to have poor Str scores, which you can use to your advantage. Even someone without Improved Trip can knock down most casters long enough to kill them. I suppose Stunning Blow would work as well, but I haven't gotten a character with the feat into PvP so I couldn't say.

[96th_Malice]

Cass... if hese not a WF im going to dwarfen throw his ass to death!

Nothing like a good dwarf toss to make the PvP night complete !!

INTO the Pit with you !!

[96th_Malice]

Sure.

Casters in PvP:
-Buff before you jump into the pit: Displacement, Stoneskin, all resists, all protects, Fire Shield (both versions), Nightshield, Jump, Haste, Phiarlen Pendant of Time boost, Greater Heroism, Deathward (goggles clicky or otherwise), Rage, and if fighting other casters try to get Freedom of Movement from somewhere (depending upon how you feel about it, also consume the best food and drink from the tavern right before jumping into the pit as well)
-Keep all of your metamagics up and running: Quicken is especially important
-Make sure you have spells that: attack all 3 saves, do not allow a save, and ones that have no standard defense against
-MOVE!
-KEEP MOVING!
-DON'T STOP!
-More specifically, you should be jumping, strafing and running. Don't ever cast on the ground unless you are on the other side of the room from your target and no one else is trying to lay an axe in your head.
-Use cover. You don't need to have line of sight to your target for more than a second or two, so duck behind stuff, get furniture between you and your opponent, drop into another area (Lobster), then pop out just to toss a spell.
-Remember that persistent AoEs (Fogs, Firewall, Dancing Ball, etc...) and summons cannot be used in tavern brawls, so you might as well prep something else in place of them.
-Vary your attacks. It keeps people guessing and is more fun than just turning everyone to stone. That said, making your own statue garden is fun!
-Don't grief! Don't turn someone to stone and leave them there forever. That's just mean. Stone them, take out any other targets, then drop them.
-Prismatic Spray can be a random "I Win" button
-Spells that have a ring-effect space (Slow, Mass Hold, etc...) are pretty poor in PvP most of the time as everyone is moving around too fast for the ring to land on them, but it can be great as a sort of trap: as someone is running at you, jump in the air and cast the spell straight down, throwing the ring in front of them. Finish with a Dreamspitter or whatever else.
-Ray spells get kinda wonky if you try to cast at someone who is too close. Get some distance before throwing them out there. They also have a hard time hitting moving targets, but jumping and casting seems to have a higher success rate.

LOL !!!! AWESOME !!!!!

Now we need to get the DM's to remove this post !!

hehe

I'm off to find somthing offensive in here so we can have it locked and hidden away forever lol !!

Man ...... I am not getting ANY work done today !! Oh well...... Thats what Friday is for ... BUT as of right now I forsee it being a LONG night of DDO so Friday may be out for getting "real" work done as well as I may be sleepy

Oh well ...... thats what Saturday is for .... Catching up on sleep !

And so the cycle continues !

Actually ... Looking back up on your "what to do and not do list". You should spend some time with the 20+ casters that stand srill in PvP spamming magic missile at me then sending me tells cause I'm hacking

For the record ..... Sheild clicky counts as hacking I guess !!

[sephiroth1084]

Edited to add some melee tactics.

Probably should have been more explicit with one part:

BE A PALADIN! :cool:

Honestly, paladins are very well suited to fighting both casters and other melee. If your AC is high enough, many melee won't be able to hit you at all (most melee self-buff their attack bonus into the low 30s, which is not enough to hit ACs in the 60s or higher). Also, a paladin may only have 400-500 HP, while that multi-raged barbarian has 800-1,000, but paladins have Lay on Hands, which is good for another 300-900 HP. Suddenly that paladin has as much or more virtual AC than anybody else.

[Happosaai]

[I][COLOR="Lime"] Wow just when I thought it was not possible to turn myself into a BIGGER nerd ... I take the bait on Star Wars stuff !!

Where's my lightsaber when I need it? :p

[96th_Malice]

Edited to add some melee tactics.

Probably should have been more explicit with one part:

BE A PALADIN! :cool:

Honestly, paladins are very well suited to fighting both casters and other melee. If your AC is high enough, but paladins have Lay on Hands, which is good for another 300-900 HP. Suddenly that paladin has as much or more virtual AC than anybody else.

Ya ..... I wanted an archer with decent saves .. Danya is heading in that direction with 2 Ranger and so far 5 Pally. I am not sure of the end game for this toon yet, BUT I know the saves are much better already than a couple of my higher lvl toons !

She "was" a 28 point build ( 2 Ranger / 14 Pally ) BUT was built VERY poorly .... her only saving grace was the saves were amazing ! So she made the never ending re-roll list about a month ago !

So I am retrying the same build again with a little more insight on "how-to" build a toon that works for my game style ! And the 32 point advantage helps a little too.

No doubt Pallys work well in PvP ....... Except against Triple Neg Bows !

:)

[assamite]

THW palidans are the I win buttons of PvP yes but, Being a THW dwarf fighter i can tell all other melee it is insanley easy to kill an arcane/devine. If i am not fighting a WF arcane or a squishy cleric i buff up to my 44str, throw on the pendant of time and destroy you with my Dwarfen thrower :). You should see that thing in action with Quikdraw, madstone, fighter capstone, and 30% haste boost. I keep my distance and dodge your slow ass projectiles any Stoned hippy witha hangover could avoid. At this point you can choose 1 of 2 options.
1. Stay up top and keep taking 1d10+3+1+2+4+17+1d6 to the face :)
2. Jump downstairs... into my melee world and meet Mr. Supreme Tyrant.

Now if your a self healing cleric :) or WF... With the server lag it is imposible to DPS you to death with my Dwarfen thrower, as well as my greataxe because of the hopping around HAHA you can't hit me server lag teqnique. I admit i cannot kill you everytime :) you are good PvP but, i will give you a run for your money.

Step 1. being a Non healing PvPer is to secure your territory in the pit if you are going up against a WF arcane. Jump down and avoid all the casters spells as best you can and get distance between you.

Step 2. When you have secured your ground look that WF arcane in the face and start ****ing with its mind. It thinks it's the ****, It thinks its invincible :D use this to your advantage.

Step 3. Run at the arcane then change direction, they will fire off thier sequence of spells but all will miss you when you get good at reading hands. Slowly chip away at the ground between you and the arcane.

Step 4. When your close enough to jump to thier location you got em... but dont jump yet srint at them, as soon as thier hands move jump at them. Thier reaction will be to make you miss and they will jump, once they jump they are ****ed. keep moving sideways from thier face direction and determine where they are going to land.

Step 5. Just as they are about to land greet them with a nice warm trip :) victory.

When fighting a Squishy cleric skip step 1 and get straight to the mind ****ing. PvP takes practice :) no you don't get vertual items or recognition but, you do get hours of entertainment :D

[Tumarek]

Why the hell would Dispel Magic be considered cheating? If anything i would consider those buffed arcane frogs cheaters, but thats just DnD. It's a system where a caster gets stronger the more time he has to prepare and only a few things can stop him when he does have all the time he needs. One of these things is Dispel Magic (and some other pvp class combinations of course). And most classes dont even have this spell.

If it where me making the rules you could hardly walk and not jump at all while casting and for reference all my toons are casters.

Well DnD never was designed as a PvP system and so DDO will never be a good pvp game. So there is really no reason to have any rules (griefing excluded) in PVP areas. I would like to see a few tweaks for rogues there though. If a rogue cant sneak up on anybody he really wont have much fun.

[sephiroth1084]

Why the hell would Dispel Magic be considered cheating? If anything i would consider those buffed arcane frogs cheaters, but thats just DnD. It's a system where a caster gets stronger the more time he has to prepare and only a few things can stop him when he does have all the time he needs. One of these things is Dispel Magic (and some other pvp class combinations of course). And most classes dont even have this spell.

If it where me making the rules you could hardly walk and not jump at all while casting and for reference all my toons are casters.

Well DnD never was designed as a PvP system and so DDO will never be a good pvp game. So there is really no reason to have any rules (griefing excluded) in PVP areas. I would like to see a few tweaks for rogues there though. If a rogue cant sneak up on anybody he really wont have much fun.
My feelin about Dispel Magic is that it makes things much too easy, and is something that is very difficult to defend against. Any non-caster who steps in with buffs is gonna get them stripped, and then they're probably going to fail whatever save comes up next. It makes the playing field even more uneven, as it means that no one will be able to move as fast, or land a hit through displacement, or absorb any spell damage, etc...

Casters already rule the day even when everyone else comes in buffed to the nines. Tipping that scale so much further feels like cheating.

[Corstaad]

Think this is a great example on why Arena's dont work for any PvP games. He knows your coming and plans around seeing you. He has a answer for everything you bring. DDO just wasn't made for PvP which was stated from the very beginning. Unless they want to develop some kinda "wastelands" where we dont fight in a box spending any time on PvP development is worthless.

[assamite]

Why the hell would Dispel Magic be considered cheating? If anything i would consider those buffed arcane frogs cheaters, but thats just DnD. It's a system where a caster gets stronger the more time he has to prepare and only a few things can stop him when he does have all the time he needs. One of these things is Dispel Magic (and some other pvp class combinations of course). And most classes dont even have this spell.

If it where me making the rules you could hardly walk and not jump at all while casting and for reference all my toons are casters.

Well DnD never was designed as a PvP system and so DDO will never be a good pvp game. So there is really no reason to have any rules (griefing excluded) in PVP areas. I would like to see a few tweaks for rogues there though. If a rogue cant sneak up on anybody he really wont have much fun.

Dispell is cheap, and if you use it on me youll have my red dot pointing at your forhead for the rest of your vertual life. Madstone cant be dispelled :D and thats all i need with a dwarfen thrower to take out a non healing squishie.

[alexthegood]

U do realize there are more pvp pits all over the city go 2 1 of those if u want 2 fight yr friends. When i want 2 test something or beat on a guildie I go to the phoenix tavern almost never any1 in the pit there.

me to! whats you user name ?

[h4x0r1f1c]

he shows up and makes everyone have to leave. he's technically greifing ppl

Are you talking about me?