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[spyderwolf]

36 Point Build

Base-----LVL----stat----exp stat-----aps----stance----tome---final
Str 15----3--------6---------1------------------4--------3------32
Dex 14----2-------7---------3---------1-----------------3-------30
Con 14------------6----------1-----------------4--------3------28
Int 8----------------------------------------------------3-------11
Wis 15-------------7---------3---------2----------------3-------30
Cha 15------------6----------1---------3----------------3-------28


umd
11 ranks
4 gh
2 head
6 shroud
9 cha mod
5 titan gloves
37 total

HP
568(608 yugo pot,648 madstone)

AC
10 base
10 dex mod
4 shield
5 deflection
4 icy
3 titan ring
6 aura
5 nat
4 insight
10 wis mod
1 dodge feat
1 twd feat
2 set bonus
4 stance
8 ac bracer
1 alchem bonus
1 centered bonus (you dont acutally have to be centered for it)
1 haste
2 recitation
2 mabar cloak
3 from ship buffs(kunderak,deneith,kobold)
87 total ac with self buffs and pa on
89 with dex and wis yugo pots
93 with bard song


gear
goggles - min 2 (45 hp HF,prot 5)
helm- epic helm of men. wis 7 exp wis 1 intim 15
neck - epic wolf whistle(cha 6 , str 1)
trinket - bloodstone
cloak - Epic cloak of night(2 ac , 5 dr/good)
belt - dos belt (con 6 gfl)
ring1 - titan ring
ring2 - dos ring(str 6 cha 1 dex 2)
glove - epic spec glvoes (dex 7 exp dex 1 +4 to hit)
boots - Von 6 boots(anchoring while tanking horoth), cha skills +6 shroud item(can be anyhting you like really)
bracers - epic bracers of deftness (ac 8 exp con 1)
armor - icy rainments
weapon1 - min 2 (acid,good bursts,insight 4)
weapon2 - min 2 (acid,good bursts, wis 2)

feats

1 - khop
1(human) - PA
3 - ranger past life feat purchasable
6 - twf
9 - twd
12 - diehard
15 - itwf
18 - gtwf

1(monk) - toughness
2(monk) - dodge

skills

18 ranks of concentration (39 total[54 with item])
11 ranks of umd (37 total)
23 ranks of intimidate (62 total)
1 rank of tumble


APS change as i tweak stuff.

[lord_of_rage]

The question I have is with the ranger past life feat. Does it rely on your caster lvl to get the extra boost to its ac or your lvl?

[spyderwolf]

The question I have is with the ranger past life feat. Does it rely on your caster lvl to get the extra boost to its ac or your lvl?

either way wouldnt matter 18 - 2 means either 20 character levels or 18 caster levels. its +5 after 12 caster levels. so either way its still +5 barkskin. im going to go out on a limb and say its character level, becasue otehrwise how could you caster barkskin as say a pure fighter?

[QuantumFX]

Personally, I would try to work Extend Spell into the build. Keeping Zeal and Divine Favor going without it is really freaking annoying. It should also work with the Ranger past life feat. (They appear to work like dragonmarks)

[spyderwolf]

Personally, I would try to work Extend Spell into the build. Keeping Zeal and Divine Favor going without it is really freaking annoying. It should also work with the Ranger past life feat. (They appear to work like dragonmarks)

my pally is currently 18 pal 2 rog. ive played the last month or so withotu extend to get used to it. after about 3 days you dont even pay attention anymore. you jsut cast every 2:15 instead of 4:30 with those 2 spells. and those are the only 2 spells that really matter for duration. but yes if yo udont liek recasting every 2 mintues id drop twd for extend in a heartbeat. thx for the input.

[spyderwolf]

finally updated it for those who were asking me about it in game.

[Cinderbeard]

2 thumbs up, congratz!

Allways been curious about your build, thanks.

edit: oops wrong thread, was commenting your VOD achievement ^^

[Gercho]

diehard? btw you are limiting yourself to min2 weapons forever, i would take improved critical slashing instead of diehard...
Other than that great build!

[inggold]

Sorry, for a newbie to higher end, could you explain what EXP and APS stats are?

Not sure I understand stance giving 4 STR either :? Such a turrible newb....

[DelScorcho]

I skip extend too on the pally builds. It just means the player has a little more to keep track of during the mission. It doesn't really add anything else to the character except convenience. The feat that I would change is die hard. Consider empower healing and taking the human recovery line. Although you wont be able to use levik's bracers going the icy rainments route, you still should be getting close to 100 point cure serious wounds casts and you certainly will have the mana pool to make that work.

[DarkRea]

Base-----LVL----stat----exp stat-----aps----stance----tome---final
...Dex 14----2-------7---------3---------1-----------------3-------30...
...Wis 15------------7----------3--------2-----------------2-------29...


Love the build, but how do you get +3Exc.Dex and 3Exc.Wis?

You have to use Icy for max AC, thus have to use Chat ring for source of Dodge+3 instead of a DT Robe with T3 as Dodge+3, so "only" room for Band of Syb, ie 1 craftable Exc.Stat+2 slot right?

Edit: Douh, the 2nd Khopesh! Sorry :)

[Meriadeuc]

The feat that I would change is die hard.


Diehard lets him take the Defender of Siberys enhancement. The other prerequisite feats he could choose are combat expertise (which he can't take due to the intelligence requirements) and various shield-related things (which are useless to him).

[Quikster]

Diehard lets him take the Defender of Siberys enhancement. The other prerequisite feats he could choose are combat expertise (which he can't take due to the intelligence requirements) and various shield-related things (which are useless to him).

Yes but he could drop one of the +1 to ac feats for ic slash, but spyders a newb so :D

[DarkRea]

Sorry, for a newbie to higher end, could you explain what EXP and APS stats are?

Not sure I understand stance giving 4 STR either :? Such a turrible newb....

EXP should probably have been a EXC when Spyder wrote it. It stands for Exceptional Stat, meaning its a stat bonus that stacks with regular stat+X bonuses. Check the Tower of Despair(ToD) rings on the loot page and you can read about the ToD and Shroud Crafting on DDOWiki. He has crafted Exc.Dex+2 on a ToD ring and Exc.Wis+2 on tier3 of a Mineral2 crafted Greensteel Khopesh.

APS means Action Points Spend. Its the Human Adapt Dex 1 and Human Greater Adapt Wis and Pally Charisma 2 and Monk Wisdom 1.

Stance+4 is the Defender of Sybyris 3 stance: Superior Defensive Stance:
- You may expend a Paladin Armor Class boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Sacred bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

[Hokonoso]

Yes but he could drop one of the +1 to ac feats for ic slash, but spyders a newb so :D

lol +1, i never +1 you for anything but i agree here, with that much ac what is 1?

[spyderwolf]

i dont use anyhting but min 2s fpr 99% of what i run him in. this toon is built for the specfic job of raid tanking so useing other weapons never comes up really. and when i do happen to run epics with him . everythign is auto crit so i can bust out picks and not have to worry about crit range. i love you too quik.

[ColinQ]

Have you ever considered dropping a combination of Dodge/TWD/Pastlife Ranger for Max/Qkn for self healing? (assuming gear can be changed around to fit in torc)


A more generic question that extend to all the residential tank/pally experts
What is the AC sweet spot for a dedicated raid tank?
Ie. I can see a lot of good tank build with number into 90s~100s, but I assume at some stage there will be a diminishing return set in with getting those numbers


Assuming goal of the build is to
Self buff to tank VOD hard/TOD normal while being only scroll healed by a rogue
Raid buff to tank VOD elite/TOD hard while being only scroll healed by a bard
Raid buff to tank TOD elite with a multi-tasking cleric/FvS


And finally a more specific question regarding tanking Horoth on N/H/E
What would be the HP threshold to ensure that a failed disintegrate (followed by a DOT or 2) won’t automatically kill you

[Quikster]

Have you ever considered dropping a combination of Dodge/TWD/Pastlife Ranger for Max/Qkn for self healing? (assuming gear can be changed around to fit in torc)


A more generic question that extend to all the residential tank/pally experts
What is the AC sweet spot for a dedicated raid tank?
Ie. I can see a lot of good tank build with number into 90s~100s, but I assume at some stage there will be a diminishing return set in with getting those numbers


Assuming goal of the build is to
Self buff to tank VOD hard/TOD normal while being only scroll healed by a rogue around high 70's low 80's The higher possible the better imo as you can leave PA on with certain buffs (assuming you took ce, i know spy didnt) 75 is the number I shoot for in ToD normal.
Raid buff to tank VOD elite/TOD hard while being only scroll healed by a bard80-85ish depending on debuffs
Raid buff to tank TOD elite with a multi-tasking cleric/FvS89/90 with debuffs




And finally a more specific question regarding tanking Horoth on N/H/E
What would be the HP threshold to ensure that a failed disintegrate (followed by a DOT or 2) won’t automatically kill you The disintegrate is already maxed on normal so it does the same damage n/h/e. DoTs do scale up, as does his damage per swing. On elite he gets an extra melee attack in his attack chain.

Those are hit on 20 type numbers


Ive done it with as few as 550, but I dont recommend it myself. Another thing to consider is WoE will not be slowing his attacks come U7, so builds that could easily tank this past mod will have a much harder time. I like 650+ minimum. That gives you -500ish for a failed disintegrate, -120 for a dot or two. If he also hits you during this time, forget it as his melee attack on elite are in the 100+ range usually. They might be as low as 60ish per swing or 150ish on the high end. All that said, you usually wont roll a 1, take 2 dots, and a melee hit all in the time it takes a Johnny on the spot healer to get something going on you. I mean it is elite right so you shouldnt be going in with newbs :)

Note that on normal or hard the issues are much less important. His hitpoints are significantly lower, and he doesnt hit near as hard or often. He can still wipe his arse with you if your not an actual tank, but its not near as likely. I let a guildie do his first tanking last night on hard with around 80ish ac and ~530 hitpoints. Wasnt a big deal at all. After u7 he will want a few more points of ac due to the WoE fix, but other than that it was ok.


Hope some of that helped.

[ColinQ]

Those are hit on 20 type numbers


Ive done it with as few as 550, but I dont recommend it myself. Another thing to consider is WoE will not be slowing his attacks come U7, so builds that could easily tank this past mod will have a much harder time. I like 650+ minimum. That gives you -500ish for a failed disintegrate, -120 for a dot or two. If he also hits you during this time, forget it as his melee attack on elite are in the 100+ range usually. They might be as low as 60ish per swing or 150ish on the high end. All that said, you usually wont roll a 1, take 2 dots, and a melee hit all in the time it takes a Johnny on the spot healer to get something going on you. I mean it is elite right so you shouldnt be going in with newbs :)

Note that on normal or hard the issues are much less important. His hitpoints are significantly lower, and he doesnt hit near as hard or often. He can still wipe his arse with you if your not an actual tank, but its not near as likely. I let a guildie do his first tanking last night on hard with around 80ish ac and ~530 hitpoints. Wasnt a big deal at all. After u7 he will want a few more points of ac due to the WoE fix, but other than that it was ok.


Hope some of that helped.


ty +1
maybe there is hope for my gimpy pally yet

I just need to 2nd TR it after a couple of 20th raids and craft a new set of KPS while throw away the rapiers
In the mean time stay away from elite horoth until find myself a titan ring (at the rate of 1 titan run per month, I’ll prob see that ring just before DDO close down unless I sacrifice my firstborn to the loot god)

[Quikster]

I'll be doing some titan runs again soon. Evidently a guildie or two need some gear out of there :p

Just need to buy the pack and I'll be doing some.

[spyderwolf]

Have you ever considered dropping a combination of Dodge/TWD/Pastlife Ranger for Max/Qkn for self healing? (assuming gear can be changed around to fit in torc)


A more generic question that extend to all the residential tank/pally experts
What is the AC sweet spot for a dedicated raid tank?
Ie. I can see a lot of good tank build with number into 90s~100s, but I assume at some stage there will be a diminishing return set in with getting those numbers


Assuming goal of the build is to
Self buff to tank VOD hard/TOD normal while being only scroll healed by a rogue
Raid buff to tank VOD elite/TOD hard while being only scroll healed by a bard
Raid buff to tank TOD elite with a multi-tasking cleric/FvS


And finally a more specific question regarding tanking Horoth on N/H/E
What would be the HP threshold to ensure that a failed disintegrate (followed by a DOT or 2) won’t automatically kill you

ive got the torc but i dont wear it. i hardly ever use my loh let alone scroll/spell healing. i dont run with many rangers so dropping the past life feat would be unthinkable. i currently self buff to 87 ac with power attack on. thats 91 with a bard. i feel thats abotu where i wanna be for elite tod. i dont really wanna give up even 2 points of ac at my current ac.
the max/emp/quicken works really well though. more beneficial to a low ac dps pally thoguh as having those heals are wasted if they arent needed.

[ColinQ]

ive got the torc but i dont wear it. i hardly ever use my loh let alone scroll/spell healing. i dont run with many rangers so dropping the past life feat would be unthinkable. i currently self buff to 87 ac with power attack on. thats 91 with a bard. i feel thats abotu where i wanna be for elite tod. i dont really wanna give up even 2 points of ac at my current ac.
the max/emp/quicken works really well though. more beneficial to a low ac dps pally thoguh as having those heals are wasted if they arent needed.


+1, Ty for the insight
The AC threshold seems to be consistence with Quik’s response

Based on that info, I’ll plan to get my toon to 77 self buff in PA, 82/83 in CE or raid buff, and 91 for both
As I run EVON6 more often than tanking hard/elite TOD, I’ll prob drop TWD for OTWF

Last (bunch of) question(s)
I seems to remember that you also have a Pure Fighter that’s a tank build
Between the two, which have better DPS? Would it be by a large margin?
In what situation (particular raid/quest) would you prefer to use the 18/2 as oppose to pure fighter?

Ty once again

[spyderwolf]

+1, Ty for the insight
The AC threshold seems to be consistence with Quik’s response

Based on that info, I’ll plan to get my toon to 77 self buff in PA, 82/83 in CE or raid buff, and 91 for both
As I run EVON6 more often than tanking hard/elite TOD, I’ll prob drop TWD for OTWF

Last (bunch of) question(s)
I seems to remember that you also have a Pure Fighter that’s a tank build
Between the two, which have better DPS? Would it be by a large margin?
In what situation (particular raid/quest) would you prefer to use the 18/2 as oppose to pure fighter?

Ty once again

my fighter has alittle more dps, the pally has a little more hate. mainly because of the haste boosts.

i run either of my tanks for the raids. they are fairly interchangable. the pally has slightly more ac , when the fighter has slightly more dps. i prefer my fighter when new content comes out and we are figuring it out as the signifcantly higher intim can be a huge bonus. in more established content ill run either.

[NaturalHazard]

Hi how do you think this would do with a drow instead of a human?

[spyderwolf]

Hi how do you think this would do with a drow instead of a human?

1 less feat and prolly 40 less hp.

[ColinQ]

1 less feat and prolly 40 less hp.

a drow be able to hit the exact same STR/DEX/CON/WIS/CHA as human with similar level of epic gear/tome?

Base Lv Tome Item Enh Excpt Stance Total
Str 14 4 3 6 1 4 32
Dex 16 2 7 2 3 30
Con 12 3 6 3 4 28
Int 10 10
Wis 15 1 3 7 1 1 28
Cha 16 2 7 2 1 28


Rapier is a lot weaker vs KPS tho
but a +3 tome get you CE which is only important if you are not fully geared out and need AC

[spyderwolf]

updated with new gear,skills, and enhancements.

[Kinerd]

Quick question: do you ever have occasion to use your monk stances, or did you while leveling up?

[Kinerd]

And one more question: do you find that the invisibility guard effect on the Mabar cloak interferes with your tanking ability?

[spyderwolf]

Quick question: do you ever have occasion to use your monk stances, or did you while leveling up?

on portals in shroud i use windtacne and earth strike

[spyderwolf]

And one more question: do you find that the invisibility guard effect on the Mabar cloak interferes with your tanking ability?

the only raid boss so far that ive foudn that you dont wanna use cloak on is the orthon in part 1 of tod.

the devil in part 2 , horoth , and sully ( both raids) are fine with cloak on.

the orthon instantly ports and loses agro when you go invis from the gaurd.

havent tested the devil in part 1 myself so unsure if he ports away.

[Kinerd]

Thanks for the responses. :)

[spyderwolf]

your welcome