I hate Barbarians...

[DoctorWhofan]

Well, to play them, that is. I hate the concept I have no chance of healing myself when raged or just on pots. Really. After playing Clerics all these years, it is HARD to change. I cannot even splash it with Pally, my second favourite class.

So it is time to throw out my hate, or at least attempt to.

SO THE CHALLENGE:

Build me a 32 point Barbarian, any race except halfling, with the following criteria:

Self Healing. Not off just pots. Be able to use wands.

THF...another thing I hate. I have some nice Greatswords taking up mulespace... But will except TWF

DPS. Duh.

Splashing is allowed, as long as the majority is Barbarian

have somekind of an AC for the first 10 levels or more feasible, be a cleric's nightmare of HP. (WHAT AM I SAYING???)

Middle ground geared. Shroud crafting is allowed, Titan stuff IS NOT. SO skip the Chattering ring. I hate that raid.


DIsclaimer: I like Barbarians in my parties. But unless I know them, I tend to be think they be mana soaks until proven otherwise. But I don't discriminate. I suck it up and check my supplies.

[Zuldar]

You could probably make something like this. Just splash a couple levels of rogue to get some umd.

barbarian 18 / rogue 2
human

str 46 16+6item+5levels+10rage+2ragepot+4deathfrenzy+2 tome+1enhancement
dex 17 15+2tome
con 40 16+6item+4enhancements+10rage+2ragepot+2tome
int 8
wis 8
cha 14(20) 12+2tome (+6cha item when using umd)

feats
1 two weapon fighting
h toughness
3 power attack
6 cleave
9 improved two weapon fighting
12 greater two weapon fighting
15 improved critical slashing
18 stunning blow

umd
23 ranks
5 charisma
3 cartouche
4 gh
5 skill boost
6 shroud charisma skills item
46 umd

[sirgog]

Three steps to a welf-healing Barb build:

1) Take any traditional barb build, preferably human

2) Obtain gear with decent healing amplification, and make sure all stats are 11 or higher

3) Grind 400 Silver Flame favor. Voila! One self-healing Barbarian.

[toughguyjoe]

18Barb/1Fig/1Wiz. Warforged.

Start with Max Str and Con. I suggest WIS as the next important stat.

Take Frenzied Berserker. I'm sure you hate that as well :D

Lets see. I'm no good with actually fleshing out a build. Here are some important parts.

Warforged Power Attack. take as much of this as you can. Keep your attack bonus as high as you cant hrough self buffing wtih pots, wands, whatever. Use your wizard level to your advantage.

Get Moderate Fort item at level seven. for a warforged barb getting rid of the crits early is a big save for both you, and whoever is healing/repairing you.

For feats, take Power attack, Cleave, THF, ITHF, GTHF, Toughness, Improved crit: your choice(or maybe stunning blow, depending on your mood), or maybe both, given your bonus fighter feat.

Skill points i usually spend in Intimidate so i can fill in if a low rent intimitank is needed.

As far as decent AC, you could always take adamantine body. I do not. I simply buff my AC with pots at low level, then give up on that and hope for displacement friendly casters in mid level quests. Heres my advice for taking less damage on a low ac toon. Learn to move. Don't be there when the monster swings. Its your best defense.

Keep your Con up with WF con enhancements. I suggest using your elvel up points on STR. your DPS will be exceptional if you get all your rages in order.

Mineral II greataxe. Self explanatory.

Docent of Defiance. Really good for the times you need it.


I'll edit and add more if i think of anything else to add to this laundry list of barbarian ****

[gizmos19]

trisa with the specs you want you could have a simpel affective barb
18/2barb /rouge
max str /max con every outher stat is a dump
THF ITHF GTHF PA IC 2x toughness


green steal hp iteam hp / cha skills bouth lighning strike

as far as ac gose DT armore shield from hound . lorriks . dont need a feet for it cuz it wount be used much
skills intim ,UMD ,and balance . open lock is ok if you got speare poins . locks and chest are low

[Kriogen]

Self healing barbarian is not possible.

When you rage you can't use most stuff that heals. If you don't rage ... its like a Bard that never sings.

OK, on paper yes, (some Barb18/Rogue2 with UMD), but ingame not. You must Rage. Theoretical yes, but ingame not practical. Just roll a Kensai Fighter18/rogue2 (evasion and umd) if you want wands/scrolls.

Sorry, Barbs *must* Rage. When you Rage, no hjeel. Barb is like a F1 car. Goes **** fast, but needs a full team of mechanics.

[Shamurai]

Grr, when is ddowiki coming back up! I checked the Compendium about Barbarians... What is this about not able to heal while raging. I don't know anything about barbs, can someone explain this? Can they really not be healed while they rage... if this is true what will high UMD give them if they can't use a heal scroll while raging.

Please enlighten me.

[whysper]

Most Barbarians are already red in the face, a little rouge is not going to do much to woo the enemies.

[Kriogen]

Grr, when is ddowiki coming back up! I checked the Compendium about Barbarians... What is this about not able to heal while raging. I don't know anything about barbs, can someone explain this? Can they really not be healed while they rage... if this is true what will high UMD give them if they can't use a heal scroll while raging.

Please enlighten me.
When you Rage (barbs Rage, not arcane spell), or are hit by Madstone Rage (boots or effect in some quests), Tenser Transformation, Bladesworn Transformation, you can't cast spells, use wands or scrolls, do traps/locks etc ... You can drink pots, but then things stop. On top of that some pots count as 'spell', can be used on others, so no Remove Curse for example (or has this been fixed?).

You become very big and powerfull, but your brains don't get enough oxygen and stops functioning :)

[Murgatroyd]

When you Rage (barbs Rage, not arcane spell), or are hit by Madstone Rage (boots or effect in some quests), Tenser Transformation, Bladesworn Transformation, you can't cast spells, use wands or scrolls, do traps/locks etc ... You can drink pots, but then things stop. On top of that some pots count as 'spell', can be used on others, so no Remove Curse for example (or has this been fixed?).

When you're in the middle of a fight it would be silly to be able to try and heal yourself, but between fights it's a lot easer to top yourself off with heal scrolls than wands.

Once they fix all the pots with funnels (curse, lesser restore, etc) then barbs will be able to get their own curses in VoD and ToD :D

[Cedwin]

The main tactic would be to kill everything, and *then* heal up. Other then drinking pots, or having someone healing you, there's no way around that while raging.

[Visty]

I'd go with 18 barb 2 pal. This gives you wand usage for in between fights, and doesn't decrease your BaB like splashing rogue would. It also gives you the Pally aura, and a lay on hands, although I don't think you can use LoH while raging either.

The main tactic would be to kill everything, and *then* heal up. Other then drinking pots, or having someone healing you, there's no way around that while raging.

which doesnt fit as you cant mix barb and pala due to aligment issues
also it would give the same umd as staying pure barb :p

[Cedwin]

which doesnt fit as you cant mix barb and pala due to aligment issues
also it would give the same umd as staying pure barb :p

Ah ****, forgot about the alignment, well, nevermind then! :p

Not sure why you would need to worry about UMD if the class can use wands though.

On the same line, you could go 19 barb 1 ranger for wand usage.

The 18 barb 2 rogue build has the added benefit of evasion, and a high UMD, but your BaB suffers from it.

[Stealthdog]

I'd go with 18 barb 2 pal.


:)

[Visty]

Ah ****, forgot about the alignment, well, nevermind then! :p

Not sure why you would need to worry about UMD if the class can use wands though.

On the same line, you could go 19 barb 1 ranger for wand usage.

whoops, bad on my side...yes, palas can use wands just fine...but you can also take ranger, same thing then :p
or bard and even get umd + wandusage

[Rusty_Can]

I'd go with 18 barb 2 pal.

Erm.... Paladins must be Lawful Good, whereas barbarians cannot be Lawful. This build is not possible.

[rimble]

Three steps to a welf-healing Barb build:

1) Take any traditional barb build, preferably human

2) Obtain gear with decent healing amplification, and make sure all stats are 11 or higher

3) Grind 400 Silver Flame favor. Voila! One self-healing Barbarian.

Yeah, because of the Rage mechanics, even Wand or Scroll healing gets difficult. It's gotta be the pots.

Do the Silver Flame pots heal WF less?

[Missing_Minds]

Ah ****, forgot about the alignment, well, nevermind then! :p
Not sure why you would need to worry about UMD if the class can use wands though.
On the same line, you could go 19 barb 1 ranger for wand usage.

At that point you might as well make it 18 barb 2 ranger.

for the loss of 1 point of DR, and mighty rage (lvl 20), you gain...

wand usage, bow strength, +2 against a favored enemy, rapid shot, and TWF. So it would be better to actually start out as 2 ranger then go into barb TWF in this manner.

Keep a bow and quiver with arrows and you never have to worry about ranged, and you will hit hard when you have to range.

[Missing_Minds]

Do the Silver Flame pots heal WF less?

No clue. No one has ever posted how well it works on them.

[Cedwin]

whoops, bad on my side...yes, palas can use wands just fine...but you can also take ranger, same thing then :p
or bard and even get umd + wandusage

Yes, but a bard has a 0 BaB at level 1, same as the rogue. If she's not worried about that, I have seen some successful Bardbarian builds in action.

[Cedwin]

wand usage, bow strength, +2 against a favored enemy, rapid shot, and TWF. So it would be better to actually start out as 2 ranger then go into barb TWF in this manner.



Self Healing. Not off just pots. Be able to use wands.

THF...another thing I hate. I have some nice Greatswords taking up mulespace... But will except TWF


Sounds like that's what she wants anyways, since 2 ranger will grant TWF, with the added benefit of wand usage.

[SpanishBlueEyes]

I have a barb and barb is my fav class. But i hardly ever rage. I use my rage for that extra to hit per swing on long fights such as boss's and such. i do have power attack on all the time and with my green steel min 2 GA on a crit without raging i am getting 230. I dont knock people who rage all the time as it can help out in their dps if they are a splash of some sort, but i built mine to be major dps without rage. And you can just get rage cast on you or a pot and still be able to use a wand. And once you are lvl 17 barb you can dismiss your rage so you can heal if need be. I think it is great you are trying a barb and i wish you luck. :D

[Shamurai]

aaaah I misunderstood this was about self healing, which is "hard" to do while raging, but they can still be healed by others... duh I shoulda got that! But does drinking a pot end the rage?

Re: Healing during a fight ~ Lay on Hands has kept me fighting on MANY MANY occasions! I love it!

[Cedwin]

I have a barb and barb is my fav class. But i hardly ever rage. I use my rage for that extra to hit per swing on long fights such as boss's and such. i do have power attack on all the time and with my green steel min 2 GA on a crit without raging i am getting 230. I dont knock people who rage all the time as it can help out in their dps if they are a splash of some sort, but i built mine to be major dps without rage. And you can just get rage cast on you or a pot and still be able to use a wand. And once you are lvl 17 barb you can dismiss your rage so you can heal if need be. I think it is great you are trying a barb and i wish you luck. :D

Really? Do you not have the FB prestige enhancements? That adds another +1 to your crit multiplier at level 12, then another +1 at 18 while raging. So a x4 GS weapon would do some serious crit damage while raging with FB at level 18+.

Not to mention all of the other added benefits like increased str, con, hitpoints and saves.

As I've seen in other posts, an un-raged barbarian is just a gimped fighter with no AC. :p

[Cedwin]

aaaah I misunderstood this was about self healing, which is "hard" to do while raging, but they can still be healed by others... duh I shoulda got that! But does drinking a pot end the rage?

Re: Healing during a fight ~ Lay on Hands has kept me fighting on MANY MANY occasions! I love it!

No, drinking pots doesn't end rage, but the pots you can drink only return around 20-30 hitpoints, unless you have some healing amp items/enhancements. At level 15, my barb has around 500 hitpoints... that takes a LOT of potions to fill up.

The silverflame potions are nice, but you have to do some major favor grinding to use them, and when you do use them, you have to stand around and wait for the side effects to wear off.

[Emili]

Yeah, because of the Rage mechanics, even Wand or Scroll healing gets difficult. It's gotta be the pots.

Do the Silver Flame pots heal WF less?
Yes Silver Flame Pots heal WF for a little less, You can take Healers friend though to even it up a little.

Sirgog, suggested human for a reason... -> stacking healing amp up to the 180-200% + range easier. Turns two or three csw pots into an heal scroll as far as hp regen basically, also when a cleric does hit you with a heal spell, the more observant ones notice it lands for double their norm.

1.) FB - is the best dps you get out of a barb, a level 20 death frenzied is just crazy in game with how quick it may kill mob... tactical play like stuns and trips land well and even the glancing with procs now produces enough dps that mob are just falling dead left and right. Even using regular rage on a FB seems nearly double the output of the old crit rage barbs to me.

2.) Healing Amp - is funny, my DR is probably average for a Barb but in shroud part one I'll eat a tasty ham and death frenzy on portals and the clerics never notice am doing damage to myself, but healing the few points it's doing back by myself. In mass cure groups of melee you're more then topped during battles.

3.) Will saves - Barbs have great will save for a melee when raged, while not like a cleric, FvS, pally, monk they may get awful close to some especially buffed up some. It's a lot harder to put significant will save on a figher or rogue, you need to splash there to come close to what a raged barb can pull off.

4.) Dr - toss a 500hp 50+ac ranger in midst of 10 trash mob and do the same with a 650hp 20ac barb - if you did a testing - the difference is almost the same, the ranger's ac is not quite high enough to matter and is getting grazed down 1-3 hp with every mob around and taking a direct hit once in a while (the ac ranger needs more gear to get into the 60 mark to count)... the bard is taking every direct hit but grazing does nothing because DR covers it. It just about equals out.

In the thick - among melee the barb plays a little differently, you expect to take damage... but there are ways of actually mitigating and even avoiding quite a bit of it when you're a high-to-max dps melee build with little AC. Tacticals, and movement and one thing people do not see or think about often... i.e. you may have complete agro so stand behind the 74ac pally you're groupped with - you now are sporting a shield even though your hands are holding a GS min II greataxe - the shield is the pally. The mob on a regular attack is swinging at you but the pally is in the way.

[Missing_Minds]

Yes Silver Flame Pots heal WF for a little less, You can take Healers friend though to even it up a little.

So standard 50% reduction before healing amps along with all of the negative stuff that happens for a time?


Sirgog, suggested human for a reason... -> stacking healing amp up to the 180-200% + range easier. Turns two or three csw pots into an heal scroll as far as hp regen basically, also when a cleric does hit you with a heal spell, the more observant ones notice it lands for double their norm.


How are you getting healing amp that high? What am I missing?

non WF base (100%) + human (30%) + finger necklace (10%) + greensteel weapon (30%) = roughly 170%. Only monks can get higher, but she's not doing a monk.

WF base (50%) + WF healer friend (25%) + finger neclace (10%) + docent of blood (10%) + greensteel weapon (30%) = roughly 125%

now I'll grant you, the math is NOT that simple, (infact it is flat out wrong. Much like division by zero.) but it gives the idea.

[Stormanne]

Hmmm, after three and a half years of playing barbs, I'd say that the best possible solution is as follows...

Go full barbarian, taking as many rage, con, toughness, and DR boosts as AP allows. Make sure you have enough HP to give a dedicated healer time to heal other members of the party and then you. Make sure you have enough rage and STR to kill whatever is in front of you before it kills you. A blur/displacement clickie wouldn't go amiss. Silver Flame pots in a pinch, but a cleric or favored soul is going to be better than any self healing.

[gizmos19]

Self healing barbarian is not possible.

When you rage you can't use most stuff that heals. If you don't rage ... its like a Bard that never sings.

OK, on paper yes, (some Barb18/Rogue2 with UMD), but ingame not. You must Rage. Theoretical yes, but ingame not practical. Just roll a Kensai Fighter18/rogue2 (evasion and umd) if you want wands/scrolls.

Sorry, Barbs *must* Rage. When you Rage, no hjeel. Barb is like a F1 car. Goes **** fast, but needs a full team of mechanics.

this is true . YOU CANT CAST WHILE RAGEING . but you can after 2min or so . and then you heal up self buff up and rage and do it again

[Missing_Minds]

Who, does keeping a hireling along count as self healing?

[EAB]

Hmmm, after three and a half years of playing barbs, I'd say that the best possible solution is as follows...

Go full barbarian, taking as many rage, con, toughness, and DR boosts as AP allows. Make sure you have enough HP to give a dedicated healer time to heal other members of the party and then you. Make sure you have enough rage and STR to kill whatever is in front of you before it kills you. A blur/displacement clickie wouldn't go amiss. Silver Flame pots in a pinch, but a cleric or favored soul is going to be better than any self healing.

What he said. Finally some one talks the basics. Spec your class right and focus on killing/damage and let the healer do their job to keep you alive. BTW, please feel free to post your build as I am curious.

[Maldavenous]

Just gear up for HP and bonus healing. My Barb has a ton of HP but it's never been an issue seeing he has such a high bonus to incoming healing. It also helps your pots. I'll call this one "If you're going to be a sponge be the most absorbent sponge you can be!" So on those lines I'd say step 1 is:

Make a Human :)

Beyond that Gear, Gear, Gear, Gear.

Outside of that I can't say much more, I hardly ever use wands even on my characters who have free access to them, it's just easier to buy chugs and pop 'em when you need 'em. That way I don't have to worry about starting to beat the raid portal/raid boss/hoard of mobs with my wand and it's just quicker. Though Heal Scrolls are another story if you can get enough UMD, but that's questionable on a Barb.

If you want UMD I'd say the above class mix 18/2 Barb/Rog suggestion works best. That way you can also have evasion, which is fairly nice on making sure you take less damage.

Myself, I'd just go STR/CON as my only stats and a straight 20 Barb for maximum face poundage.

[DoctorWhofan]

First of, since i forgot to mention it, I KNOW you canot heal when Raged. I just need a "comfort zone" for me. I couldn't play a WF, even a Wizzy one until I made a clericial one with a level of Sorc. These days, If I cannot buff myself even a little bit with resorting to pots, I will not play the character. My Sorc can heal and Rasie Dead, so can my pallys (that's WITHOUT the raise dead/LoH enhancement) I have Fighter/pally who can use the resist wands...

I guess I am saying, I need something more "rounded" for soloish behavior. While I party about 95% of the time, i try not to be a burden to anyone. I hate it when I have to heal the barbarian, even between rages, not because I hate healing, but because of all those HP.

What I didn't know is how much healing enhancements do. I wonder if half the Barbs. I run around with actually take it. I am leaning towards Human. Ranger splash looks good. How about a cleric? Dumb or not? Outside using the full scope of wands (poison, healing, etc.) few spells(nightshield!) and scrolls, is there negatives to it?

[shinmade]

After playing +9 (?) clerics you would think someone would seek some release from the burdens of healing and make a FB WF Barb max STR with a healer/repairman strapped to your backpack.

[DoctorWhofan]

After playing +9 (?) clerics you would think someone would seek some release from the burdens of healing and make a FB WF Barb max STR with a healer/repairman strapped to your backpack.

I love to heal. I rarely see it as a burden.

[spifflove]

18/2barb /rouge
max str /max con every outher stat is a dump


Do not dump dex or wisdom. Now at the cost of insightful reflexes you can move points from dex into intelligence.

max str
1 point per point buy into con
rest in dex and wisdom

Especially on a 2 rogue build because without dex evasion will not work.

[Cedwin]

What I didn't know is how much healing enhancements do. I wonder if half the Barbs. I run around with actually take it. I am leaning towards Human. Ranger splash looks good. How about a cleric? Dumb or not? Outside using the full scope of wands (poison, healing, etc.) few spells(nightshield!) and scrolls, is there negatives to it?

The main con would be that you would lose 1 BaB by taking a splash of cleric, which is why I would go with ranger, who also has access to those wands you mentioned.

Human for the bonus feat, and the healing amp, 2 ranger for the favored enemy and TWF feat, and the rest barbarian. Keep str and con as high as you can keep them, with at least 17 dex for GTWF.

[Gunga]

Silver Flame pots in a pinch, but a cleric or favored soul is going to be better than any self healing.

No.


What he said. Finally some one talks the basics. Spec your class right and focus on killing/damage and let the healer do their job to keep you alive. BTW, please feel free to post your build as I am curious.

No.


Though Heal Scrolls are another story if you can get enough UMD, but that's questionable on a Barb.

If you want UMD I'd say the above class mix 18/2 Barb/Rog suggestion works best. That way you can also have evasion, which is fairly nice on making sure you take less damage.


No.

The dps that Dr. Who would be missing out on by not going 20 is negligible considering her request for a self-sufficient barb.

Storm, If you build your barbarian needing a favored soul attached to you at all times, you won't be playing him as much.

EAB, this isn't rocket science, it's all pretty basic.

Mald, I throw heal scrolls, reconstructs, stoneskin, GT, teleport, recitation and any scrolls I feel like on my 15/2 Barb/Rog. It's hardly questionable.

18/2 Human FBIII is a great build...It'll be my first TR. Good luck, Doc.

[Emili]

...
How are you getting healing amp that high? What am I missing?

non WF base (100%) + human (30%) + finger necklace (10%) + greensteel weapon (30%) = roughly 170%. Only monks can get higher, but she's not doing a monk.
...
now I'll grant you, the math is NOT that simple, (infact it is flat out wrong. Much like division by zero.) but it gives the idea.
I had to ask too... ;) ... and gfunk (who's always been a trusted source) and others had done all the leg work. Healing amp has that air to it similar to caster damage outputs...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2104706#post2104706
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=164601

It all has to do with the order of things. :)

[DoctorWhofan]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Keatheran Vor'shall
Level 6 Neutral Good Human Male
(4 Barbarian \ 2 Ranger)
Hit Points: 148
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 6\6\11
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 6
Will: 0

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 6)
Strength 18 20
Dexterity 14 15
Constitution 16 17
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 6)
Balance 4 6
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 3 3
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 3 5
Hide 2 2
Intimidate 1 5
Jump 8 13
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 2 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search 3 3
Spot -1 -1
Swim 8 13
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II





There you go. Pick it apart please.

[Gunga]

There you go. Pick it apart please.

Ranger's a terrible idea...I'm sorry someone led you down this dead end.

Wand whipping is worse than drinking pots, and if you're using a bow, you're wasting 18 levels of barb.

I can send you stats for my Human 18/2 FBIII if you'd like to see it.

[DoctorWhofan]

Ranger's a terrible idea...I'm sorry someone led you down this dead end.

Wand whipping is worse than drinking pots, and if you're using a bow, you're wasting 18 levels of barb.

I can send you stats for my Human 18/2 FBIII if you'd like to see it.

Trying to ease out of my comfort zone. I don't do Cold turkey very well...Ranger gave me the comfort blanket.

And no, its TWF not bows.

[Gunga]

Trying to ease out of my comfort zone. I don't do Cold turkey very well...Ranger gave me the comfort blanket.

And no, its TWF not bows.

I figured that throwing res scrolls and heal scrolls would give you more comfort than a csw wand. I've had ranger splashes, fighter splashes, full barbs twf and thf...the rogue splash is by far the most self-sufficient.

If you're more comfy with ranger than that's fine, but it's less sufficient than the rogue splash.

[DoctorWhofan]

I figured that throwing res scrolls and heal scrolls would give you more comfort than a csw wand. I've had ranger splashes, fighter splashes, full barbs twf and thf...the rogue splash is by far the most self-sufficient.

If you're more comfy with ranger than that's fine, but it's less sufficient than the rogue splash.

Give me an example.

[Vengenance]

CSW= 30-40 hit points
Heal Scroll=100-120 hit points

Is that a good enough example? Also, a rogue splash gets you evasion, which means you'll take significantly less damage from traps, AOE spells like DBF, FB, or pretty much any spell with a reflex save. Personally I think splashing a barbarian is well, suboptimal, but if you're going to splash, doing it with rogue isn't terrible. The next best alternative would be Fighter for the two bonus feats.

[whysper]

Beyond that Gear, Gear, Gear, Gear.

Everything in this game is about gear.

[Creddi]

I figured that throwing res scrolls and heal scrolls would give you more comfort than a csw wand. I've had ranger splashes, fighter splashes, full barbs twf and thf...the rogue splash is by far the most self-sufficient.

If you're more comfy with ranger than that's fine, but it's less sufficient than the rogue splash.

Still pretty new here, so take anything I say with a grain of salt...

I see this as short term vs long term. You are correct, long term the rogue splash is more self sufficient. However it takes time and levels to build up the needed UMD. The ranger splash has the advantage of wand use essentially immediately.

[DoctorWhofan]

CSW= 30-40 hit points
Heal Scroll=100-120 hit points

Is that a good enough example? Also, a rogue splash gets you evasion, which means you'll take significantly less damage from traps, AOE spells like DBF, FB, or pretty much any spell with a reflex save. Personally I think splashing a barbarian is well, suboptimal, but if you're going to splash, doing it with rogue isn't terrible. The next best alternative would be Fighter for the two bonus feats.

point..but Rogue makes me wanna be functional as a ROgue...Traps and open locks... Wouldn't gimp the stats?


I am just getting info here.

[Anthios888]

Your request reminds me of a build I made called The Amazon. Still sweet DPS, with wand ability, UMD scrolls, healing amplification, and evasion to prevent damage. Trap skills and bow ability to boot.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2357981

[Missing_Minds]

I had to ask too... ;) ... and gfunk (who's always been a trusted source) and others had done all the leg work. Healing amp has that air to it similar to caster damage outputs...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2104706#post2104706
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=164601

It all has to do with the order of things. :)


The issue I have with his post (gfunk) is that shourd and leviks are the same name, but different value bonus. I don't trust that.
I want to see the results of levik only, shroud only, levik and shroud. IF the last is actually the largest value... well, that is unexpected. I would trust screen caps of this.

I don't have the intention of creating a pos amp weapon msyelf. I don't grind that much any more.
I had a feeling I knew which thread (healing amp) you linked to when I saw the number. (is that sad?)

[DoctorWhofan]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Keatheran Vor'shall
Level 6 Neutral Good Human Male
(4 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 120
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 5\5\10
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 6
Will: 0

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 6)
Strength 17 19
Dexterity 14 15
Constitution 14 15
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 9 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 6)
Balance 6 8
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 6 10
Haggle 3 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide 4 4
Intimidate 3 6
Jump 7 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 4 4
Open Lock 6 9.5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 10
Spot 3 3
Swim 3 4
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 3 8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I




Here's another.

[Missing_Minds]

Give me an example.

UMD will grant you more sucess on most everything.

Cleric splash means yes you could use even the cure critical wands without check and add 10% more to it via the wand enhancment. Devotion 1 would work on your cure light (save when raging)

Ranger splash means all that I listed before but only wand usage of cures up to serious.

UMD via rogue means a decent chance at using ANY scroll or wand, so there is raise dead if you have to do so. The rogue's uncanny dodge will (count) stack with barbarian so you can get a boost to AC and Trap saves for a short while. And then there is evasion for when you actually save against the reflex check for zero damage on those traps.

Chances are your INT will be rather pathetic, so only stick points into the open lock, search, disabled device if you want to risk it. Me, I'd only be doing UMD and not the others.
edit: Well.. this is true if you want to max DPS potential of only 18 barb. But starting with a 16 saves many points you could use to pump up int that will grant the other skills to a degree below. But at half ranks... it still is rather iffy. Granted, I've only spent about... 2-5 minutes thinking on this. The build experts could expound better than I.

With that in mind, going against the standard advice of taking rogue first. I'd take my first level of rogue at 5 and the 2nd at 13. Yes, this is very strange. Why? Maxing out UMD easily.
At level 5 the max your rank your UMD could be is 8. As a rogue you get 8 points to put into any skill. The same applies at lvl 13 (max of 16). This gives you plenty of time to get your Barb skills up where you want them. This also assumes an INT of 8 and race of human.

[Gunga]

Give me an example.

2 Rogue Splash:

Evasion
41+ UMD - Raise Dead, Heal, Reconstruct, Recitation, Teleport, blah blah blah blah
Open lock
6.5 SA damage
Rogue Haste Boost

2 Ranger Splash:

TWF feat
+4 damage vs FE
Bow Strength
Wild Empathy
Wand Usage
Rapid Shot

The Amazon build is a great build, but it focuses on more than just dps and healing yourself, at a slight disadvantage to max damage.

You've got the info you need to make a good decision for yourself. GL.

[Anthios888]

The Amazon build is a great build, but it focuses on more than just dps and healing yourself, at a slight disadvantage to max damage.

You've got the info you need to make a good decision for yourself. GL.

Tempest I gives a lot more than wandwhipping. The 10% helps make up for a significant portion of DPS lost by multiclassing, gives Ram's might and favored enemies, and a comparative advantage against things where swing speed matters (vorpal banish smite stat damage etc)

It'd be a bit less DPS than certain frenzied berzeker builds simply because of the + crit multiplier you get with FB 3, but for someone like the OP, the damage would probably be a bit better short run in terms of "DPS without a lot of grinding," and it's very easy to level.

[Gunga]

Tempest I gives a lot more than wandwhipping. The 10% helps make up for a significant portion of DPS lost by multiclassing, gives Ram's might and favored enemies, and a comparative advantage against things where swing speed matters (vorpal banish smite stat damage etc)

It'd be a bit less DPS than certain frenzied berzeker builds simply because of the + crit multiplier you get with FB 3, but for someone like the OP, the damage would probably be a bit better short run in terms of "DPS without a lot of grinding," and it's very easy to level.

"Slight disadvantage to max damage."

Easy girl...

[DoctorWhofan]

Dear lord...I'm starting to side with Gunga with the Rogue...

I hav vet status, so I rolled up some quick versions (mostly to check the Rogue first level vs. Rogue later) and notcied the following:

I have to get THF for barbs.

And Barbs have uncanny dodge (which negates dodge)

Finally, I just dont have the skil points to do what missing minds suggested. I had more points in DD, open, search if I started with ROgue at 1 than at level 4.

SO...2 Rogue/18 barb. Human neutral Good

I have a TON of CHA items up to +6 from years of Pallys and clerics. With a 32 point build, I had one stat point left over so I stuck it in CHA...I have +1 tomes too. If I like the build and toon, he will eat one. I love UMD. I have no problems dumping points into c/c skill that I know is extremely useful...maybe even use that halfling gear...

Greatswords and Greataxes mostly. I have some nice low level greatswords so I will stick with that for now. Got nice high level (vorpals disruptors) greataxes at high level.

Have the +6 items: CON, INT, DEX and STR

I THINK I have DD and OL and search items. I dropped spot in lieu I know where most of the traps are in the game. Not trying for Cabel traps, but If I can get most on norm/hard (as my clogue does) I would be satified with that. Chose human Versatility for max. Nice for more attack boosts too.

Minos Legen not a problem

When (and if) he gets to shroud... I'll figure what I want to make. Outside a weapon, a greenweave item with HP/immune to fear (find alot of barbs fail that for some reason). I have the horns and ingredients for at least a tier two item.

What other gear?

[Kalari]

Im sure others helped you out so im going to relate to you on another level.

I finally made my first barbarian a month or so ago one of 2 now actually. I used to hate the idea of playing a character that would need constant healing at higher levels its why I avoided the class for so long.

But as someone who has played pocket cleric to barbarians and other melee classes I remember that each time my barb takes damage especially when shes taking down mobs in 1-2 swings during mid levels and cannot wait to see her at higher level now.

I think its about perspective no you dont want to be a mana sponge but the benefit of tearing something a new one has been exhilaration. I used to be so afraid of being a sponge now with a caster in my pocket I dont even think about it and for my dwarf barbarian once I start bringing her up it will be turn around for all the barbs in my guild I heal to have their turn keeping me up. :)

[Gunga]

I have to get THF for barbs.


You do not want THF with your rogue splash. You want TWF.

ugh..ill build you one..brb

In the meantime, did you study Rocka's build? It may be what you're looking for....
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2357981 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2357981)

[spifflove]

point..but Rogue makes me wanna be functional as a ROgue...Traps and open locks... Wouldn't gimp the stats?


I am just getting info here.

No, anything can be done

Human 18 barb/2 rogue

18
08
14
14
12
08

1) insightful reflexes
h1) stun
3) power attack
6) cleave
9) ic slash
12) thf
15) ithf
18) gthf

7 points per level

1) jump
2) search
2) disable
2) UMD
8 make up points into balance with 2nd rogue level

[DoctorWhofan]

Im sure others helped you out so im going to relate to you on another level.

I finally made my first barbarian a month or so ago one of 2 now actually. I used to hate the idea of playing a character that would need constant healing at higher levels its why I avoided the class for so long.

But as someone who has played pocket cleric to barbarians and other melee classes I remember that each time my barb takes damage especially when shes taking down mobs in 1-2 swings during mid levels and cannot wait to see her at higher level now.

I think its about perspective no you dont want to be a mana sponge but the benefit of tearing something a new one has been exhilaration. I used to be so afraid of being a sponge now with a caster in my pocket I dont even think about it and for my dwarf barbarian once I start bringing her up it will be turn around for all the barbs in my guild I heal to have their turn keeping me up. :)

Exactly...I healed so many bad Barbs in the past that Barbarian = mana soak. Despite who I play my clerics and my extreme party nanny skills, alot of my characters are self sufficant. Being a cleric in aweful PuGs taught me that.

My fear is is like my 3 pally/7 fighter (he was made before PrEs and crafting in the shroud (for me anyways)) He doesn't get played that much. Part is people ask "Do you have a cleric in this level?" after I load into the game. It's nice to know I can be counted on for that role by alot of the Vets on Thelanis, but makes it hard to play other classes. It's funny, I have gotten pretty good multi tasking when playing a melee...I can often shout out "watch your health, partymember!"

Darn Red Bars....

[Gunga]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(18 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 420 + 205 = 625 Standing
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16 - buffed and raged - 45
Reflex: 13 - buffed and raged - 36
Will: 6 - buffed and raged - 28

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25 36
Dexterity 15 18 24
Constitution 16 21 32
Intelligence 9 10 10
Wisdom 8 10 16
Charisma 11 12 18
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Skills (w/ GH and Items)
Balance 51
Intimidate 55
Jump 46
Open Lock 45
UMD 41

[/color]
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I

Level 4 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I

Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II

Level 7 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I

Level 8 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 10 (Barbarian)

Level 11 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III

Level 13 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III

Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I

Level 16 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate I

Level 17 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III

Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV

Level 19 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate II

Level 20 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower III
Enhancement: Barbarian Item Defense I

[Kalari]

Hehe I hear ya its hard to break out of that watching the bars mentality. Ive paced myself slowly and when playing my barbs just look at the mobs as long as im swinging I dont stop to say "hey such and such is poisoned or cursed lol." Though I wont lie even my forge has pots for every ailment and normally will hit a fleshy with lesser restore out of pity that they couldnt get their own..

I think we need a support group for supportive types :)

[DoctorWhofan]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(18 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 420 + 205 = 625 Standing
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16 - buffed and raged - 45
Reflex: 13 - buffed and raged - 36
Will: 6 - buffed and raged - 28

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25 36
Dexterity 15 18 24
Constitution 16 21 32
Intelligence 9 10 10
Wisdom 8 10 16
Charisma 11 12 18
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Skills (w/ GH and Items)
Balance 51
Intimidate 55
Jump 46
Open Lock 45
UMD 41

[/color]
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I

Level 4 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I

Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II

Level 7 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I

Level 8 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 10 (Barbarian)

Level 11 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III

Level 13 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III

Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I

Level 16 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate I

Level 17 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III

Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV

Level 19 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate II

Level 20 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower III
Enhancement: Barbarian Item Defense I



2 problems---I have no good khopeshes, nor can I affordthem. Can do Bastard swords, not as nice, but I trying to keep it within realistic needs.

No Disable Device. If I am going to do Open Lock, might as well do DD too.

I have alot of +1 tomes. I have a several +2 DEX tomes and INT tomes. THe rest, not so much. Yeah, yeah I know aobut 20th raid stuff. I just like to plan for what I have now, and be surprised later. Earning 1750 is no problem for me.

Let me use this as a referance and throw another back at you.

[binnsr]

No, anything can be done

Human 18 barb/2 rogue

18
08
14
14
12
08

1) insightful reflexes
h1) stun
3) power attack
6) cleave
9) ic slash
12) thf
15) ithf
18) gthf

7 points per level

1) jump
2) search
2) disable
2) UMD
8 make up points into balance with 2nd rogue level

While Stunning Blow is nice, I'd recommend Toughness over that .. she's giving up 80+ hitpoints (potentially) by not having that single Toughness feat.

otherwise, nice layout.

[Missing_Minds]

No Disable Device. If I am going to do Open Lock, might as well do DD too.

No point to DD if you don't have search.

Thing to remember, this is built as a soloist, not a completionist. You have high reflex, uncanny dodge, and evasion for traps.

First build I've actually seen off the forums that I may actually try to copy at some point. Do I give credit to you gunga or someone else?

[Gunga]

2 problems---I have no good khopeshes, nor can I affordthem. Can do Bastard swords, not as nice, but I trying to keep it within realistic needs.

No Disable Device. If I am going to do Open Lock, might as well do DD too.

I have alot of +1 tomes. I have a several +2 DEX tomes and INT tomes. THe rest, not so much. Yeah, yeah I know aobut 20th raid stuff. I just like to plan for what I have now, and be surprised later. Earning 1750 is no problem for me.

Let me use this as a referance and throw another back at you.

Don't bother with DD...you'll never find the trap to disable. The OL is very handy for pt 3 of the shroud and any locked chest in the game.

The nice thing about khopeshes is that they all do good damage. I have a couple you could start with, and you could build your collection from there.

[Gunga]

Do I give credit to you gunga or someone else?

Give credit to the forums...it's where I found all the bits and pieces.

[die]

The only thing i hate about a wand healer is it does u no good inthe sh#T U HAVE TOO CHANGE OUT WEPONS... BLAH BLAH oops cap..and the umd.. what s that .. cha, based skill right so y would i do that when all my points should be str con and maybe dex or i would put in wis. casue i hate being held i think the build is a pipe dream just build a tempest ranger the best in my opinion well thats my 2 cents any way good luck:)

[Gunga]

I used to have a catchy little line in my sig tag.

I stopped using asterisks, though, so sure, build yourself one of those if it makes ya happy.

[DoctorWhofan]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Keatheran Vor'Shall
Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(18 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 410
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 14 18
Constitution 16 19
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 11

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 8
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device 5 18
Haggle 4 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 4
Intimidate 4 23
Jump 7 29
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 2 4
Open Lock 6 17
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 17
Spot -1 -1
Swim 7 17
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 4 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Rage


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Indomitable Will


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness IV




Try this one

[Gunga]

Try this one

I hate to see you using BS's, but if you insist, it actually looks pretty good.

Roll her up...good luck.

EDIT>>>Your umd should be 23. you don't need to max ol in order to open locks/chests...take some points from ol and put them into umd and you should be fine.

[Hanam]

The only thing i hate about a wand healer is it does u no good inthe sh#T U HAVE TOO CHANGE OUT WEPONS... BLAH BLAH oops cap..and the umd.. what s that .. cha, based skill right so y would i do that when all my points should be str con and maybe dex or i would put in wis. casue i hate being held i think the build is a pipe dream just build a tempest ranger the best in my opinion well thats my 2 cents any way good luck:)

40 umd is easy to get with a 6 starting cha. Eat a +2 tome and switch 4 items around and that's it. You only need to switch to UMD after a fight or before one if you need to cleric it, not in the middle of a fight.

You have contributed nothing to this already silly thread.

[binnsr]

Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


From a playability perspective with this feat order, I would recommend using great axes or swords until you get TWF at lvl12 :)

Also gives you time to build a collection of bastard swords. Actually, since I agree with Gunga on the khopesh thing, I'd say start a collection of both Bastards and Khopeshi -- when you hit lvl12 and start TWFing with them, you can make the decision of which to actually go with.

[DoctorWhofan]

I hate to see you using BS's, but if you insist, it actually looks pretty good.

Roll her up...good luck.

I sold all my Khopeshes, and eem to have good luck finding Dwarven Axes...BUT I have a ton of Bastard Swords...Nice ones too. I KNOW Khopeshes are better, but I can't live a dreamworld that i pull Khopeshes in every chest... It's like the Chattering Ring and tomes I do not have.

I CAN get 1750, that's a reality..did it on 5 different toons now. I can count on that. ( I didn't add it to the planner...+2 STR one most likely)

May take your advice and dump DD and search, at least after the ifrst few levels.

[Missing_Minds]

I hate to see you using BS's, but if you insist, it actually looks pretty good.

Roll her up...good luck.

EDIT>>>Your umd should be 23. you don't need to max ol in order to open locks/chests...take some points from ol and put them into umd and you should be fine.

Why the intimidate if you plan on soloing mostly?

I think I stop putting stuff into jump on such a high str character at about... 12 ranks or so. haven't had issues yet.

[DoctorWhofan]

From a playability perspective with this feat order, I would recommend using great axes or swords until you get TWF at lvl12 :)

Also gives you time to build a collection of bastard swords. Actually, since I agree with Gunga on the khopesh thing, I'd say start a collection of both Bastards and Khopeshi -- when you hit lvl12 and start TWFing with them, you can make the decision of which to actually go with.

I have a bastard sword collection.

[DoctorWhofan]

Why the intimidate if you plan on soloing mostly?

I think I stop putting stuff into jump on such a high str character at about... 12 ranks or so. haven't had issues yet.

It was a class skill...I dunno...no DD...No search...what, haggle?

[binnsr]

It was a class skill...I dunno...no DD...No search...what, haggle?

haggle's always good .. even if you only have 10-20 in it after a +13/15 item, you're still saving money those times that you're not selling via a hagglebot (if you have one, that is) :)


I have a bastard sword collection. Then scratch that and just keep on using them bastard swords. Personally, I like the look of the Bastard Swords better anyway :)

[Gunga]

Why the intimidate if you plan on soloing mostly?

I think I stop putting stuff into jump on such a high str character at about... 12 ranks or so. haven't had issues yet.

I dislike soloing. This toon is made to run with competent players who are all self-sufficient...having a 55 intim before rec and bard is useful and easy to come by.

I agree with the jump, but when im maxed on umd and balance there's not much else...not a big fan of listen. :D

[Gunga]

It was a class skill...I dunno...no DD...No search...what, haggle?

If you're not going to DD and search, than you don't need such a high intelligence..I'd go back to the template. It's an interesting twist though, and you should go for it if it's important to you.

[DoctorWhofan]

haggle's always good .. even if you only have 10-20 in it after a +13/15 item, you're still saving money those times that you're not selling via a hagglebot (if you have one, that is) :)

Then scratch that and just keep on using them bastard swords. Personally, I like the look of the Bastard Swords better anyway :)

I do have a hagglebot, only level 11 but still...

I was collecting Bastard swords in the game from, I dunno, when I started?? My orginal pally was going to be a BS user, but she, well, sucked worse than my #4 character (Currently level 17 pally-24 STR :( Oh yeah, TruRES for him!) so she got re rolled into a cleric.

My hubby has a BS user, and my fighter/pally uses them too. SO between the two of us, we got some NICE ones, like pure good/ghost touch, holy/disruption, G. Construct bane, silver/pure good, the one from Invaders, acid/vorpal.

[DoctorWhofan]

If you're not going to DD and search, than you don't need such a high intelligence..I'd go back to the template. It's an interesting twist though, and you should go for it if it's important to you.

I just feel like, I dunno I am wasting that rogue level. I know, evasion open lock, skill points...I like to get the most out of the character's class(es) My Clogue does pretty well, at 12 (2rogue/10clerc) he can get all the traps on normal/hard...elite is sketchy. But he was an Drow (another slated forTruRES) so no human adaptibilty to boost.

[tc12]

Do not dump dex or wisdom. Now at the cost of insightful reflexes you can move points from dex into intelligence.

max str
1 point per point buy into con
rest in dex and wisdom

Especially on a 2 rogue build because without dex evasion will not work.


I'd go Dwarf for 18 barb /2 ro 2WF. The evasion just fits so well the DEX spend needed for 2WF anyway. And the +5 spell defense Dwarves get make you're evasion much more reliable, and can make up for a low starting WIS. INT to match the skills you want to maintain, besides max UMD you could easily maintain a decent Open lock score as a help when you solo. That Dwarvest get up to 16 CON with 1:1 point buy, along with racial CON enhancements is nice too.

[Zynthar]

Why the intimidate if you plan on soloing mostly?


If you have the points to spare, intimidate can actually be useful still. I think you said somewhere a few pages back that you weren't going to be solo'ing exclusively. Having a decent intimidate is never a bad thing on a melee. I've helped avoid near-wipes plenty of time's on my kensai with a timely intimidate. Do I do it all the time? Nope! He's DPS. Is it great to have another tool to help CC a little? Oh yeah. It's all about having a nice bag of tricks.

[gizmos19]

Do not dump dex or wisdom. Now at the cost of insightful reflexes you can move points from dex into intelligence.

max str
1 point per point buy into con
rest in dex and wisdom

Especially on a 2 rogue build because without dex evasion will not work.

sorry i am real late on this one. every one pls read her specs on what she want's to play .
a THF . that can heal up a bit inbetween rounds .. mass amounts of HP great sord user .
simpel as that

[DoctorWhofan]

sorry i am real late on this one. every one pls read her specs on what she want's to play .
a THF . that can heal up a bit inbetween rounds .. mass amounts of HP great sord user .
simpel as that

If TWF works, then I am ok. I am trying to get a grip on the class, and trying to take the blinders off the "Mana Sponge" stigma that I, among others feel they are. I have often said to others "Walk a mile in my class's boots..." I should live up to that philosophy myself.

For that matter, I can't seem to play Ranger either, but that's more boredom than anything.

Anyways, making a healing Barbarian (self heal between rages) really makes sense. But is Ranger better or Rogue?

[Kriogen]

...Anyways, making a healing Barbarian (self heal between rages) really makes sense. But is Ranger better or Rogue?
Rogue2/Barbarian18 is your best option. Not trapsmith, just UMD.

Ranger gives you wand usage, rogue (umd) gives you wand usage and scroll usage (Heal scrolls) and rr/align items usage.

Rogue2 also gives you Evasion.
Ingame we get hit by physical and magical damage. Many/most high end boss monsters are battle mage type, eq: Harry hits in melee and spams fire.

Barbs have hard time to get solid AC at high levels. With Evasion you would atleast have protection vs 1/2 incoming damage, magical/elemental part.

You can say, that Evasion Barb (Rog2/Barb18) would be a lesser mana sponge :)

Dwarf is a good race. Extra saves vs magic (and you have evasion) and Axe enhancements (more damage, dead mobs cant hurt you) and combat tactics enhancements. Trip and Stun will 'save' lots of clerics mana.

If not Dwarf, then Human or WF. Humans gets Improved Recovery (you get healed for more), WFs are immune vs some nasty things.

Barbarians "Mana Sponge"? Unfortunately I can't say that. I would like to, but I can't.
99.99% barbs are. But on euro servers i played with a couple of barbs that where not. They where actually "cheaper" then any other frontliner i have seen. Somehow they moved, attacked, triped, stunned so fast, that mobs couldn't even blink.
But as I said, only a couple where good, **** good, better then everything else combined.

Because of that I can't say that "class" is mana sponge. Player is, but not "class".

[MichaelBerea]

you may have complete agro so stand behind the 74ac pally you're groupped with - you now are sporting a shield even though your hands are holding a GS min II greataxe - the shield is the pally. The mob on a regular attack is swinging at you but the pally is in the way.


LOL That just about made my day, thank you.