Extend Spell Usefulness

[Shumanfoo]

At what point, if ever does extend spell lose it's usefulness? I know it affects buff durations and some of the CC spell durations. As I level, would I need a buff to last 20 minutes extended or is 10 long enough for example? I'm thinking over a dwarf cleric build with the following feats (in no order). I've considered human for the bonus feat, but I just feel like making a dwarf.

1 Extend
2 Empower Healing
3 Maximize
4 Quicken
5 Mental Toughness
6 Spell Penetration
7 Greater Spell Penetration

I'm thinking of swapping out extend at later levels for either improved mental toughness or a spell focus. Any other feats that would be good to swap in?

~Shu

[Therigar]

I would never swap extend for IMT. If not playing a healbot I would drop empower healing for empower. If I felt that EH was needed I would drop MT for empower. IMO the MT and IMT feats are only part of the feat list if playing a healbot -- in which case spell penetration and ISP are not needed.

My personal preference is to drop EH for empower and otherwise keep the feat list you have.

[Elsbet]

I don't think it ever loses its usefulness. You'll always want it for blade barriers and implosion (the coolest spell EVER). You might not need 40 minutes of fire resistance very often, but you'll always want more than 3-4 seconds of implosion.

[PurdueDave]

I still use extend for the short duration buffs & kill spells.

Considering you spent two feats for spell penetration, heighten spell might be a worthy replacement.

[Shumanfoo]

I don't think it ever loses its usefulness. You'll always want it for blade barriers and implosion (the coolest spell EVER). You might not need 40 minutes of fire resistance very often, but you'll always want more than 3-4 seconds of implosion.

Ah I wondered how long some of those spells lasted. Which is why I was thinking it would be a good reason to pick it up.

As for Emp Heal versus Emp, I do want to "primarily" heal yet cast offensively as well. I figure I am sacrificing some damage by not having empower, to have enhancement reduced empowered heals.

Yeah I have thought about heighten, but I am not sure which lower level spells I plan to be using at higher levels. Once I get there I'll decide if I need the DC boost from a heightened spell. Thanks for everyone's insight.

[Club'in]

I love an extended Recitation, as well.

[Visty]

I don't think it ever loses its usefulness. You'll always want it for blade barriers and implosion (the coolest spell EVER). You might not need 40 minutes of fire resistance very often, but you'll always want more than 3-4 seconds of implosion.

you cant extnd implosion (that is if they havent ninjachanged it)

[Angelus_dead]

At what point, if ever does extend spell lose it's usefulness? I know it affects buff durations and some of the CC spell durations. As I level, would I need a buff to last 20 minutes extended or is 10 long enough for example?
You can certainly decide to drop Extend at higher level. The general design goal is to have 15 minutes between rest shrines, but of course it's easy for a party to go a lot faster or slower. (But if they're on Normal mode then shrines will reset after 15 and you can backtrack to rest and rebuff).

Extending CC is basically never a good idea. At high level the spells it will be most important to consider Extending are DF, DP, BB, and Holy Aura. Since I see that your character has neither PA nor Imp Crit, you probably don't plan to use DF/DP much.


I'm thinking of swapping out extend at later levels for either improved mental toughness or a spell focus. Any other feats that would be good to swap in?
Heighten could be rather nice, as you don't look to be good at killing things with weapons. But Heighten is less helpful for priest than for mages, because you can't spend AP to reduce the cost.

[Zenako]

Blade Barrier is about the only spell that gets noteable benefit from EXTEND. Even then, it can be debatable. With enough bang in those BB, I was often moving on long before it would run out, since the mobs were all dead. In quests where the mobs have a LOT more HP or some evasion going, longer lasting is better.

Most of the other spells are low level and using Extend comes close to doubling the base spell cost, so the main thing you are saving is having to stop and recast, but unless you are casting a lot of spells like Divine Power, Favor, etc, most battles seem to be over and moving to another spot before a non-extended version would expire.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think Extend becomes more useful in mid levels (where with extend you suddenly can make it shrine to shrine with buffs) but at higher level most times you don't need extend.

BB can benefit from it, especially when setting up a field of death.

There are a few buffs that are short term that can benefit from it.

Its worth leaving on my spell bar so far but its off more than on.

[Shumanfoo]

Heighten could be rather nice, as you don't look to be good at killing things with weapons. But Heighten is less helpful for priest than for mages, because you can't spend AP to reduce the cost.

Yeah I am looking at heighten and then my spell list and the spells I could see heightening are like mid-level spells. So I'd basically be doubling the spell cost and I'm not sure I'd want to do that.

[Tyrande]

At what point, if ever does extend spell lose it's usefulness? I know it affects buff durations and some of the CC spell durations. As I level, would I need a buff to last 20 minutes extended or is 10 long enough for example? I'm thinking over a dwarf cleric build with the following feats (in no order). I've considered human for the bonus feat, but I just feel like making a dwarf.

1 Extend
2 Empower Healing
3 Maximize
4 Quicken
5 Mental Toughness
6 Spell Penetration
7 Greater Spell Penetration

I'm thinking of swapping out extend at later levels for either improved mental toughness or a spell focus. Any other feats that would be good to swap in?

~Shu

Extend is always useful, even at end game. Like haste, at level 20, extended gives 4 minutes of haste. Lots of monsters to be burnt & corroded: Extended Maximized Empowered Firewall and Acid Fog. Lots of low dexterity monsters like someone else said: Extended Maximized Empowered Blade Barrier.

[Zenako]

Extend is always useful, even at end game. Like haste, at level 20, extended gives 4 minutes of haste. Lots of monsters to be burnt & corroded: Extended Maximized Empowered Firewall and Acid Fog. Lots of low dexterity monsters like someone else said: Extended Maximized Empowered Blade Barrier.

But unlike Haste which moves with you as you advance the quest, things like BB are in a fixed location, and unless the group is willing to keep draggin more mobs back, often ends up wasted. Playstyle of the groups you run with will affect its actual utility a lot.

[Shumanfoo]

Heh, now I'm rethinking Mental Toughness. At 20, it is "only" 105 SP and I guess there are plenty of ways to get SP outside of that feat. Thanks for the discussion, very useful input. DDO has great forum help and I like that.

[JOTMON]

Tough call,

I gave up empower healing and went with extend on my cleric.
Personally I find extend much more usefull especially when a quest is taking longer than shrines are available.
A quest that is struggling at the end only gets worse when everyones buffs start wearing off and you are busy healing the party to keep it going, no chance of rebuffing here before the party wipes.

Empower was more usefull overall as it affects my combat/damage spells as well as the mass cures.

I found empower healing was less usefull as I can spam mclw and mcmw, yes I may heal for a few less points overall, but empower healing for me tended to overheal which is just a waste of healing resources or risk a party member death as I wait to cast the mass cures to optimize the empowering.

Heighten=meh... i tend to use higher level spells more often than lower level ones.
Heighten would help with spells like searing light, but less so with BB from what I can tell and I didn't see much overall benefit.

Each choice has benefits and weaknesses but ultimately the choice should best fit your personal play style or strengthen an area you feel you are not strong in.

Typically heighten for DC's on CC/charms or damage from lower level spells
Maximize - combat/cures(not heal)
Empower - combat casting
Empower healing- healbots
Extend- longer duration buffs and BB.

[PurdueDave]

Heighten would help with spells like searing light, but less so with BB from what I can tell and I didn't see much overall benefit.


Searing light is not a heighten spell.

Stuff like greater command (will) and soundburst (fort) would be the spells to heighten, I expect. Maybe the symbols if you're into using them. It's not nearly as cool as on an arcane, though.

[Shumanfoo]

My thinking on Emp Healing is that with enhancements it is 6SP for 50% more. So any healing spell that costs 15 base and higher is more efficient with Emp Heal turned on. So at that point I would just run with that on all the time and cast as needed for what my spells can heal for.

So far I am only lvl4 on the cleric I have rolled so I don't have experience as to how this will play out as I level higher. Guess I'll find out.


Searing light is not a heighten spell.

Stuff like greater command (will) and soundburst (fort) would be the spells to heighten, I expect. Maybe the symbols if you're into using them. It's not nearly as cool as on an arcane, though.

Yeah that is what turns me off to heighten. It would cost 35 more SP to cast burst and 20 for GC if my math is correct. Not sure it is worth that spell cost. Maybe the 20 for GC.

[tihocan]

I still use extend a lot at high level, mostly for BB/Divine Power/Recitation. Well worth it IMHO.

[Lextek]

Out of OP list I would drop Mental Toughness. Its couple potions. And you will be needing stacks of those anyway. That frees you up feat you need.