THF Paladin Prototype (Project Etrian)

[Failedlegend]

Ok now that I've got 32 Point (Purchased) and Head Start (Through Favor) I think I can tackle a Pally.I'm most likely going to be making this pally a pure 20 but I'm open to MC options although I don't have monk or FvS yet (I might buy monk next time it goes on sale)

When I look at Etrian Everguard I want I see a Man who's willing to cut down anything in the name of his respective Gods and/or Goddesses (Str 16) and look good doing it (Cha 16) which is accented by his shining Paladin Armor (Heavy armor,Dex 8) who inspires those around him with his Goodness and his Greatness (Auras) and just MIGHT be able to heal a scratch or stubbed toe (14 Wis) and than if any of the monsters can stop trembling in fear long enough to strike he should be able to shrug a few blows off (14 Con) if they even make it past his Falchion.


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Etrian
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 293
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 13

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 8
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 16 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected)Power Attack


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected)Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: UMD


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


I'm most likely going to be making this pally a pure 20 but I'm open to MC options although I don't have monk or FvS yet (I might buy monk next time it goes on sale) also I will probably follow HotD PrE early game than switch to KotC later when evil outsiders become more common otherwise I'll just take enhancements as a go as their so easy to redo but I will try to boost my aura and DPS abilities as much as possible.

Str 16+5(level increase) = 21+1(Human Versatility)+6(item) = 28 Str
Cha 16+3(Pally Enhancement)+1(Human Versatility)+6(item)= 26 Cha
Con+6(item) = 20

Will equip best Str,Con & Cha Items available (Reliant on drops past +2's)

Any feedback is welcome :)

[Gnorbert]

Personally I would probably drop the Wis a couple point to bring up your dex a bit... but it's just preference.

Your will saves will be high already, plus you plan to take Force of Personality later. An extra couple dex will give you a boost to your reflex save and AC. Wisdom 12 will be fine for casting, wear a wis item to get above 14 and maybe a +2 tome later to do away with the item. You won't have many spell points without a wizardry item anyway...


Also, Diehard feat might be changed for Power Attack later in the levels. Diehard helps at lower levels but higher up... typically you get really dead and not just incapped. That's a preference choice also.

Either way it will be a solid character and should be fun to play if you enjoy paladin play style. Not sure what makes this a "Paladin prototype" though.

[Murgatroyd]

Couple of Suggestions:

1. Drop your WIS to 12 and bring your INT to 10 to take advantage of the extra skill point.

2. With the 10 INT, change your skill point distribution. Max out Balance, Tumble and UMD. Heal is a useless skill and since your spells will mostly be cast before combat you won't need Concentration.
Balance: Since you will be wearing plate and your DEX is pretty low, you want to be able to get up quickly after being knocked down.
Tumble: Being able to fall from heights without taking damage is a nice thing for a plate user. Also tumbling in plate looks awesome.
UMD: With the high CHA you will be able to get to high enough to use Raise Dead scrolls with a small chance of failure.

3. Swap Force of Personality for Power Attack. You will have a good will save with items. Damage is king.

[Rheebus]

Couple of Suggestions:

1. Drop your WIS to 12 and bring your INT to 10 to take advantage of the extra skill point.
/second

2. With the 10 INT, change your skill point distribution. Max out Balance, Tumble and UMD. Heal is a useless skill and since your spells will mostly be cast before combat you won't need Concentration.
Balance: Since you will be wearing plate and your DEX is pretty low, you want to be able to get up quickly after being knocked down.
Tumble: Being able to fall from heights without taking damage is a nice thing for a plate user. Also tumbling in plate looks awesome.
UMD: With the high CHA you will be able to get to high enough to use Raise Dead scrolls with a small chance of failure.
/second

3. Swap Force of Personality for Power Attack. You will have a good will save with items. Damage is king.
/second

I would also drop Die Hard and Extend Spell. By the time you are picking Extend Spell up, you will already have many many minutes with your wimpy paladin buffs. Just recast them or shrine. The previous post about Die Hard sums up my thoughts very well.

You can pick up some nifty combat feats like Cleave and Great Cleave instead. The only way 2H melees can keep up with DPS is by damaging multiple targets. Cleave and G. Cleave will help you do that.

[Failedlegend]

Personally I would probably drop the Wis a couple point to bring up your dex a bit... but it's just preference.

Your will saves will be high already, plus you plan to take Force of Personality later. An extra couple dex will give you a boost to your reflex save and AC. Wisdom 12 will be fine for casting, wear a wis item to get above 14 and maybe a +2 tome later to do away with the item. You won't have many spell points without a wizardry item anyway...

I boosted Wis to 14 to eliminate the need for an item or tome (My rogue took up way too many slots with stat items...one of the major problems he had)



Also, Diehard feat might be changed for Power Attack later in the levels. Diehard helps at lower levels but higher up... typically you get really dead and not just incapped. That's a preference choice also.

I was planning on switching out diehard later for that reason...but I didn't know what to switch to but thats a good Idea...What Lvl would you recommend to switch at...is there a diff feat that's possible (if not no biggie just judging options)



Either way it will be a solid character and should be fun to play if you enjoy paladin play style. Not sure what makes this a "Paladin prototype" though.


Most of the builds I've seen are either TWF or S&B and alot of people bash on THF Pally's so I figured if I stuck Prototype in there their would be less flames & more help :)


I would also drop Die Hard and Extend Spell. By the time you are picking Extend Spell up, you will already have many many minutes with your wimpy paladin buffs. Just recast them or shrine. The previous post about Die Hard sums up my thoughts very well.

You can pick up some nifty combat feats like Cleave and Great Cleave instead. The only way 2H melees can keep up with DPS is by damaging multiple targets. Cleave and G. Cleave will help you do that.

Either this vvv or keep the 14 Wis and only put a few points into concentration the rest in Balance...than all possible in UMD
Should I take (Great) Cleave sooner?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
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Etrian
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 264
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 11

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 16 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)

[Gnorbert]

One of my favorite characters to play was a Halfling dragonmarked Paladin using THF. Lots of fun to play in groups and people were amazed at the general boost he always brought to the party.

[Failedlegend]

Ok I changed some things (Updated the first post too for my use) around and now currently playing this character (Lvl 4 start makes for slightly easier testing)...what do you guys think now


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Etrian
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 264
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 11

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 16 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected)Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: UMD


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)




Will equip best Str,Con & Cha Items available (Reliant on drops past +2's)

I'm most likely going to be making this pally a pure 20 but I'm debating 2 levels of monk now that I've purchased it (Always trying to build a ranger/monk 18/2 )

Note: Going HotD PrE and buffing Aura as much as possible

[Junts]

If you are going pure thf, you would benefit a lot from dumping wis and int to 8, and taking 17 str and 17 cha starting, since +4 cha tomes are insanely hard to get, only needing a +3 for divine might 4 is very beneficial.

The perils of starting at 8 wis on a paladin are almost always over-estimated by new players. Its just not a very big deal for very long and in a range when even if you had higher wisdom you'd only be able to cast a spell or two per shrine anyway. It's a waste of build points.


if you want a /2 monk or /2 rogue build, I'd look in the forums and the build is very different; you'd want to go twf with those, and allocate stats differently. My aryenne build in the paladin forum could give you some hints about going that way.

[excess]

Second on dropping wisdom to 8.

In addition, if you do end up MCing with /2 rogue (which you should, evasion is awesomesauce - full UMD isn't too shabby either), the timing of the second level of rogue means by the time you hit level 2 spells at lvl10 (8/2 pal/rog) +4 items will be wearable. Before that point, your small SP pool means all but the most occasional casting will be impossible anyways (and more wisdom won't improve matters as much as you might think).

But as Junt said, /2 splash evasion builds are all about reflex saves, so going THF with low dex is really less than ideal. As an aside, I've found THF is still great to use on undead or outsider trash as the KotC damage appears to guarantee glancing blows on everyone around if the mobs are the appropriate type - you don't benefit from the increased +damage scaling on the physical component of the glancing blow, but you do get the light damage proccing on everyone.

[Failedlegend]

Second on dropping wisdom to 8.

Ok so sticking to THF Pure Pally (I'm already working on a TWF Ranger/Monk http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218308) so hows this.

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18

and is the extra 2 points of cha REALLY worth the loss of the Con and Wis

[DoctorWhofan]

Personally I would probably drop the Wis a couple point to bring up your dex a bit... but it's just preference.

.

Agreed. with a 12 WIS, +2 items are easy to get!

[Failedlegend]

Ok a big thank you+rep to Junts and Ralmeth I stumbled onto Junt's Paladin guide and a Build of Ralmeth's (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2615649&postcount=7) I've used it to redo my pally a bit so here goes (A mix of my current pally/Junts sample Human THF Pally and Ralmeth's which I actually like the spread of stats better but at what cost?)

Edit: Which Stat build should I choose (personally I prefer the second one) and would a different race suit me better?...preferable not Drow.

Str: 16+5(lvl) +1(Human) +6(item) = 28
Dex: 8
Con: 12+6(item) = 18
Int: 10
Wis: 8+6(item) = 14
Cha: 18+2(Pally Cha) +6(item)= 26

or

Str: 16+6(item) +5(level) +1 (Human) = 28
Dex: 8
Con: 16+6 (item) = 22
Int: 10
Wis: 8+6(item) = 14
Char: 16+6(item) +2(Pally Cha) = 24

Feats:

1: Toughness
1: Two-handed fighting
3: Power Attack
6: Extend Spell
9: Improved Two-handed Fighting
12: Improved critical: Slashing weapons
15: Greater Two-handed Fighting
18: skill focus: Use Magic Device

Skills: Use Magic device,Balance & Concentration (or UMD and Balance with 8 int)

As far as enhancements go I want to buff my Auras as much as possible,fit in either the HotD or KotC PrE, More LoH & Smiting uses,Improved Human Recovery,All toughness, Follower of S Host,Unyielding sovereignty, Capstone and w/e I feel like.

The only problem I have left (that I can currently think of) is whether to take KotC or HotD. Now I know KotC is apparently the awesomeness of awesome town but I want to compare anyway (one I roll this toon theres no going back...I'm playing it exclusively with friends so starting over would mess everyone up ) anyways here goes...

Hunter of the Dead

Additional turning and remove disease attempts per rest
Bonus to your level when turning
Bonus on saves against spells and effects produced by undead
All of your attacks are considered Ghost Touch
Lesser Restoration
Healing (positive spells) Do more
Negative spells do less
Autokill chance on undead

Knight of the Chalice

Extra Smites
Bonus to Anti-fear Aura
Bonus attack against evil outsiders
Bonus Damage against evil outsiders
Bonus saves against evil outsiders

[Failedlegend]

Bumpity Bump Bump

[Junts]

Its worth nothing that, right now, the kotc bonus damage works vs undead, too, so its kind of a no-brainer. Later on, when they fix the bug, you might hitnk about it for leveling in the undead range, but kotc is far more useful at every level right now.

[Failedlegend]

Its worth nothing that, right now, the kotc bonus damage works vs undead, too, so its kind of a no-brainer. Later on, when they fix the bug, you might hitnk about it for leveling in the undead range, but kotc is far more useful at every level right now.

Hmmmm did not know that ok problem solved than.

Now just to choose a base stats...I wonder if I could pull this off as a WF (Those Two-handed and brute-fighting enhancements are tempting)

Human

Str: 16+6(item) +5(level) +1 (Human) = 28
Dex: 8
Con: 16+6 (item) = 22
Int: 10
Wis: 8+6(item) = 14
Char: 16+6(item) +2(Pally Cha) = 24

Warforged

Str: 16+4(lvl) +6(item) = 26
Dex: 8
Con: 12+6(item) +2(Warforged) = 20
Int: 10
Wis: 8+6(item) = 14
Cha: 16+3(Pally Cha) +6(item) +1(Lvl)= 26

will add tomes as acquired (hoping for Str/Cha+2 and maybe Con/Wis+2)

Also I could use some suggestion on enhancements (but that can be changed whenever)

[Gnorbert]

I would adjust those stats to start with a 17 Cha. Unless of course you intended to put a leveling stat increase towards Cha. This would give you a reasonable chance to get to Divine Might IV with only a +3 Cha tome (base Cha 20 required).

Of course Divine might is of greater benefit to two weapon fighters, it is still a substantial increase to damage. I would make sure you plan a way to have that option open.

[Failedlegend]

A big thank to everyone for all your help this is the final build (barring unpredicted game changes)


Human Paladin (Pure)

Str: 16+6(item) +3(level) +1 (Human) = 26
Dex: 8
Con: 16+6 (item) = 22
Int: 10
Wis: 8+6(item) = 14
Char: 16+6(item)+2(lvl) +3(Pally Cha) +1(human) = 28


Level progression and Feats:

1-Paladin- Toughness, THF
2-Paladin-
3-Paladin- Force of Personality
4-Paladin- +Cha
5-Paladin-
6-Paladin- Power Attack
7-Paladin-
8-Paladin- +Str
9-Paladin- Improved THF
10-Paladin-
11-Paladin-
12-Paladin- Greater THF +Str
13-Paladin-
14-Paladin-
15-Paladin- Improved Crit: Slashing
16-Paladin- +Cha
17-Paladin-
18-Paladin- Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
19-Paladin-
20-Paladin- +Str

Skills: UMD,Balance & Concentration


Enhancements (No specific order):

Paladin Weapons of Good
Unyielding Sovereignty
Follower of the Sovereign Host
Human Adaptability Str
Human Improved Recovery 2
Paladin Courage of Good 2
Paladin Focus of Good 1
Paladin Resistance of Good 1
Extra Lay on Hands 3
Extra Smite Evil 2
Paladin Knight of the Chalice 3
Paladin Redemption 3
Human Toughness 2
Paladin Devotion 4
Paladin Energy of the Templar 2
Paladin Charisma 3
Paladin Toughness 2
Paladin Divine Might 3