Hows this for a TWF Pally/2 Rog?

[poonce]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 274
Spell Points: 218
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 23
Will: 22

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 22

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 5 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III




Kinda sucks that Toughness feels like a wasted Feat because I cant take any enhancments in it, Dont know what I should change it out with or even if I should, Just trying to take advantage of starting at Lvl 4 and trying out a bunch or different builds. So rip it apart if you dont mind and let me know. Thanks

[Zack77]

Err... In my opinion, it could be a solid build, however, I've never been able to make, let alone be able to comment, on a Pally/Rogue 2 build. In my opinion, the synergy is hard to see. I have seen a build that DOES work good, however, though its Paladin 18/Monk 2, and has a high gear dependency. Its basically a KoC DPS build that has evasion, TWF KoC, and heavy guard damage. All credit goes to Junts for it, and the link is at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204161. Built one myself, and so far its working great. Again, credit falls to Junts!

[William_the_Bat]

It's hard to tell without you telling us what skills you are taking.. I'm assuming you picked rogue over monk for intimidate and UMD?

Obviously it's not for the trapsmithing, hehe.

Overall, it's not a bad build... your charisma bonus should make up for an otherwise uninteresting reflex save for the evasion to take effect.

A monk would get two feats and the AC bonus in robes... but you'd need to find some attribute points for wisdom to get full use of that.

If you are not really working AC, consider less bulwark of good and more toughness enhancements. There's really no such thing as too many HP, and if you don't have enough AC to be "useful" (50s in the end game to start seeing a good difference), you might as well have 0.

[Thrudh]

You take Power Attack too early... Take ITWF at 6 instead

Get rid of CHA III in your enhancements and pick up Toughness I, II, III instead...

You don't need Force of Personality... Take Extend instead...

Max out UMD...

It's a very solid build... I have a drow 18/2 paladin/rogue and he rocks.

[poonce]

For the skills im planning on going UMD and Balance/Jump. will have 29 UMD with no items so Im excited about that. I took Rog over Monk because mainly there just sint enough points to go around, Maybe when the build goes to 36 Pt but until then I just dont see it being worth it. Still planning on Going Icy Rainments and AC Bracers I should be able to get a Useful AC out of this build with Sheild wands and such. More comments would be great befor I dump the TP's for the +2 Dex and +2 Int tomes though :) Thanks guys.

[William_the_Bat]

He can't take ITWF at 6 because of the +2 dex tome at level 7 to qualify.

[Thrudh]

Err... In my opinion, it could be a solid build, however, I've never been able to make, let alone be able to comment, on a Pally/Rogue 2 build. In my opinion, the synergy is hard to see. I have seen a build that DOES work good, however, though its Paladin 18/Monk 2, and has a high gear dependency.

It's a tough choice between Paladin/Monk and Paladin/Rogue... Both give evasion...

Monk gives two extra feats...

Rogue gets you UMD, Sneak Attack, Haste Boost (and Open Lock too - only need 1 rank for this to be semi-useful)

[Thrudh]

He can't take ITWF at 6 because of the +2 dex tome at level 7 to qualify.

Ah good point...

[William_the_Bat]

Also, I concur about force of personality. Your will save will be fine, you'll want to extend your short duration pally buffs... divine favor and zeal are a paladin's bread and butter, but they sure don't last long.

[Thrudh]

I wouldn't worry about AC (at end-game anyway)... This is a pure DPS build, with the ability to UMD heal scrolls between battles, and use Lay on Hands in battles....

craft some displacement clickables from the Shroud as soon as you can... Makes a big difference...

Best thing about paladins is you can just use Holy Sword against Evil Outsiders, so you don't have to craft Min II weapons right away...

[poonce]

You take Power Attack too early... Take ITWF at 6 instead

Get rid of CHA III in your enhancements and pick up Toughness I, II, III instead...

You don't need Force of Personality... Take Extend instead...

Max out UMD...

It's a very solid build... I have a drow 18/2 paladin/rogue and he rocks.

I cant take Itwf @ Lvl 6 because I Cant get to 17 Dex By then, So I pretty much have to take PA @ Lvl 6 or wait til Lvl 18. If I dont take Force of Personality then my Will saves would only be 15, So I think it might be worth it but then again so would Extend, So Ill try both and see what works best for me.

[Junts]

with 1 rog or monk early he cant take itwf at 6 anyway becuase he lacks 6 bab.


You will NOT need FOP. Trust us. It is a wasted feat on a feat-starved class.


btw: the only part of my pal/2 monk build that's highly gear dependent is the self-healing, the res,t like all dps paladins, is cheaper than nearly any build in the game

[poonce]

Ok cool, Good Points, Ill just swap it for Extend. Would 2 Mnk do More Dmg than Going 2 Rog btw? I just dont see how It would be worth it though, You cant get Wis/Cha/Str/Dex High enough and have atleast a 12 Con.



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 274
Spell Points: 218
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 23
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 22

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 13
Bluff 3 6
Concentration 3 14
Diplomacy 3 6
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 6 8
Intimidate 3 6
Jump 7 15
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 6 8
Open Lock 6 8
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 7 29

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[Quikster]

[QUOTE=poonce;2578857]Ok cool, Good Points, Ill just swap it for Extend. Would 2 Mnk do More Dmg than Going 2 Rog btw? I just dont see how It would be worth it though, You cant get Wis/Cha/Str/Dex High enough and have atleast a 12 Con.


You can you just have to start looking at what you are getting for your build points vs level pts. You can drop str and cha by one each and pick up 4 points. I would drop some of your more expensive enhancements and pick up some others. Prolly drop bulwark IV at least, if not III and resistance III as well, your saves will be solid, prolly better then any alt you have. Also cha III is very pricey for what it gives you. When building something like this you have to look at things as far as trade offs. This isnt a dwarven ranger where you just max your damage enhancements and call it good. Spending the points on the third tiers of those for +1 is pricey when you can get more for em. You can get 2 toughness form paly and human pretty cheap. Thats 40 hp easy.

Id also consider more into the dps enhancements, a la Ex smite III or IV even. I have a similar build but went monk. Currently 15 i think, look me up in game sometime if you want to chat about more thoughts.

[Junts]

Ok cool, Good Points, Ill just swap it for Extend. Would 2 Mnk do More Dmg than Going 2 Rog btw? I just dont see how It would be worth it though, You cant get Wis/Cha/Str/Dex High enough and have atleast a 12 Con.



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 274
Spell Points: 218
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 23
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 22

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 13
Bluff 3 6
Concentration 3 14
Diplomacy 3 6
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 6 8
Intimidate 3 6
Jump 7 15
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 6 8
Open Lock 6 8
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 7 29

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III




Mine has monk for 2 feats, which lets me have quicken+maximize and heal off my bar with the Torc.

if you want more damage, you need to go pure 20 .. any splash is less dps becuase the capstone is so good.

the dps difference between monk and rogue is pretty small, you won't get sneak attacks very often because you pull massive aggro .. paladins have no threat reduction, and your dps is incredible even without the capstone.

[poonce]

So, Like this then?



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 218
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 21
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 13
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 3 14
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 -1
Hide 6 8
Intimidate 3 5
Jump 7 15
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 6 8
Open Lock 6 8
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 7 28

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[Junts]

You'll probably wish you had extend even more at low levels (when paladins get almost non-existant spell points), but thast probably the optimal dps at all levels arrangement for feats, and everything else looks fine.

Don't forget your str tome; lacking otwf, youll want that +1 to hit.

[daniel7]

Actually I think with your dex your ac would probably be better with mithral armor and chaos gaurd.