Moment of Silence

[Kalanth]

As a veteran of the US Military I was shocked and horrified to learn of the incident at Ft. Hood from earlier today. I made several phone calls regarding the incident to discover that a friend of mine was among the wounded at the base. Thankfully my friend was lucky and their wounds were not overly serious or life threatening.

With the thought of this incident and Veterans day rapidly approaching I felt that it would only be appropriate to have a moment of silence or remberence this comming Wed. It can come at any time, be it while playing DDO or simply when you wake in the morning. As this is close to me both personally and in my own history it is something that I will be making a high priority for that day.

[malthusian01]

I am glad your friend made it okay. It is a shame about those who died though.

[Shaddock]

Spent 8 years in the Army myself as well. Hopefully the wounded come through ok.

[arminius]

What I want to say would likely get me banned.

Hint: it isn't about the Lutherans.

Until we ever reach a point where we (as a society, not just these forums) are allowed to talk openly about who it is exactly who wants us all enslaved or dead, then I guess all I can do is offer sincere condolences as well.

_

[eagle995]

I think it would be great if the game developers would do something for veterans day to honor those who died so the rest of us can live free. Many relations of mine died in wars overseas, but the youth do not seem to appreciate their sacrifices. The only problem is that some will complain.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

What I want to say would likely get me banned.

Hint: it isn't about the Lutherans.

Until we ever reach a point where we (as a society, not just these forums) are allowed to talk openly about who it is exactly who wants us all enslaved or dead, then I guess all I can do is offer sincere condolences as well.

_


Its Obama who wants you dead right?

[Phineasj]

Its Obama who wants you dead right?
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/276/missme.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/missme.jpg/)

[Ystradmynach]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/276/missme.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/missme.jpg/)

Bush has finally found a career he can handle doing infomercials. I think we will be better off for having him as the new Sham-Wow guy or Billy Mays.

Bush aside, this tragedy is deepened even more by the fact both that an entire culture and religion will be judged by the actions of one individual, however horrific those may have been. And secondly, this is neither the first, nor probably the last shooting that will occur on a military base.

Anyway, I think the military needs to work on identifying people with problems better before they snap and either getting them the help they need or discharging them if that isn't enough.

[arminius]

Bush has finally found a career he can handle doing infomercials. I think we will be better off for having him as the new Sham-Wow guy or Billy Mays.

Bush aside, this tragedy is deepened even more by the fact both that an entire culture and religion will be judged by the actions of one individual, however horrific those may have been. And secondly, this is neither the first, nor probably the last shooting that will occur on a military base.

Anyway, I think the military needs to work on identifying people with problems better before they snap and either getting them the help they need or discharging them if that isn't enough.

I suggest that when a guy screaming allahu akbar starts pumping rounds into you or your loved ones, you recommend that he gets the counselling he apparently so desparately needs.

I personally am more in favor of the Kimberly Munley conflict resolution method. To each their own.

_

[arminius]

And remind me again, what did Bush have to do with the massacres in Beslan, Bali, London, Madrid, Mumbai, and Israel every day of the week?

There's a whole lot of "random people just snapping" going on there. Maybe we need to deploy global mass counselling teams. Again, I recommend starting the therapy with the Lutherans and Episcopaleans. And the Swedes, definitely those damned murderous Swedes. Wouldn't want to look like we're singling any particular culture or religion out for "judgment." Wouldn't be polite.

_

[flynnjsw]

Bush has finally found a career he can handle doing infomercials. I think we will be better off for having him as the new Sham-Wow guy or Billy Mays.

Bush aside, this tragedy is deepened even more by the fact both that an entire culture and religion will be judged by the actions of one individual, however horrific those may have been. And secondly, this is neither the first, nor probably the last shooting that will occur on a military base.

Anyway, I think the military needs to work on identifying people with problems better before they snap and either getting them the help they need or discharging them if that isn't enough. How does it figure into your equation that the guy who did the shooting was someone that was supposed to be evaluating the ones with problems?

[Baron]

Anyway, I think the military needs to work on identifying people with problems better before they snap and either getting them the help they need or discharging them if that isn't enough.

The problem is not identifying those under stress; it is that is the bulk of the Army and almost all of the combat arms folks who are on their 4th, 5th and in some cases 6th or more tour.

We either need to pull out or start up a general draft with no exceptions for politicians children. The army is bone tired with worn out equipment and we have a Commander in Chief who starts emergency news brief on the event by mistaking an award for a civilian merit badge for a Medal of Honor award. And then spends two minutes talking about mundane things before turning on his sad face.

If his two kids were in the military getting deployed to the Crack from Hood how do you think that press event would have gone different?

Last, in ref. to the quote above, the one who "snapped" was one of those who identify soldiers who cannot handle it anymore and half of those he killed were from a unit who assists those soldiers.



I retired after 22 years in combat arms, have seen the elephant, and was an army dependant all the back prior to the 50's and can tell you never has our military been so abused by the American public as it has over the last 8 years.

Call it a war and everyone at home goes on with their normal life and allowing the politicians to keep sending the troops back over and over and over with no resources, not enough combat troops , no defined mission or exit strategy but everyone puts on those stupid "we Support the Troops" stickers.

If an American really supported the troops he or she would:

1. Tell their congressmen and elected officials if the troops are not home with the war won or abandoned by the midterm elections you will vote out of office every elected official currently in office at every level of government. And do it when the midterms come. Every single one.

2. Tell their congressmen and elected officials that since this is a war you want the War Profiting laws used during WWII re enacted and enforced. Tell anyone running to replace seats vacated by item 1 above that as a condition of them getting your vote they must enact such laws within 60 days of taking office or you will support a letter asking for their recall. Money is why this war has lasted longer than WWI; it is very profitable for the big defense contractors and their congressmen.

3. Tell their congressmen and elected officials after the midterm election you expect every politician in the Senate and House to vote for Articles of Impeachment for the President for failure as the Commander in Chief for not supporting the War effort by denying the needed replacement war materials and personnel for his current war effort.

The Commander is Chief IS the Commander and Chief. He is supposed to put wars first or pull out of them. The reason the last two have got away with not doing so is because we do not have a draft so most civilian voters and their familiers are not a part of the dying that goes on day after day, month after month, year after year and alreay the LONGEST WAR IN AMERICAN HISTORY, and all anyone does is put out stupid bumper stickers and call for a moment of silence.

You want to show you really care, take that moment of silence and follow that by 10 lousy minutes out of you life and call you US house rep or senator and tell him or her if the war is not over by the mid term then their tour of duty in Washington is, AND MEAN IT.

"One vet who has been to too many funerals in the last 8 years" while the band played on in this country.

[Ystradmynach]

And remind me again, what did Bush have to do with the massacres in Beslan, Bali, London, Madrid, Mumbai, and Israel every day of the week?

There's a whole lot of "random people just snapping" going on there.

Perhaps you can remind me again which of those events involved soldiers shooting up a military base. When I mention shootings occurring on bases, I'm talking more about rangers coming home from deployment and shooting their wife or a few other people, which there was a string of these events happening just a couple of years ago. Anyway, like these other incidents, there were warning signs that Hasan was in trouble and it is possible the incident could have been prevented.

Anyway, I really don't care what Hasan was screaming when he shot up the base, the incident had as little to do with international terrorism as the Columbine Massacre had anything to do with Marilyn Manson.


Maybe we need to deploy global mass counselling teams. Again, I recommend starting the therapy with the Lutherans and Episcopaleans. And the Swedes, definitely those damned murderous Swedes. Wouldn't want to look like we're singling any particular culture or religion out for "judgment." Wouldn't be polite.


Or here is a novel idea, stop judging people based on religion in the first place. The military is and will always be religiously tolerant, as such tolerance is a cornerstone of our government as conceived by our founding fathers. There are over a billion Muslims on this planet, so trying to judge all of them based on the actions of a single individual is downright dumb.

As for the international terrorism you lamely try to connect to this incident, like almost all terrorism, that has a lot more to do with politics than it ever had to do religion. Sure, the two are intertwined in middle eastern countries, but ultimately what the terrorists are after is a change in government and to gain politic power, without which they wouldn't be committing acts of terrorism.

And I only replyed about Bush because he clearly was not cut out for the job of president, thus the answer to the question of do we miss him. I don't know why you think I think he does have anything to do with those acts of terrorism, except in the prophylactic sense of not stopping international terrorism despite his intentions, in fact global terrorism went up every year he was in office.

[Ystradmynach]

How does it figure into your equation that the guy who did the shooting was someone that was supposed to be evaluating the ones with problems?

Somewhat ironic, but everyone should have someone they can go to for help, even if they are a psychiatrist or chaplain, otherwise the system needs to be fixed. Also, in a way it isn't that surprising in one sense, in that people who are inherently unstable actually do get drawn to the psychiatric field a lot of times, maybe it is in the hope to fix their own problems.

[Ystradmynach]

The problem is not identifying those under stress; it is that is the bulk of the Army and almost all of the combat arms folks who are on their 4th, 5th and in some cases 6th or more tour.

We either need to pull out or start up a general draft with no exceptions for politicians children. The army is bone tired with worn out equipment and we have a Commander in Chief who starts emergency news brief on the event by mistaking an award for a civilian merit badge for a Medal of Honor award. And then spends two minutes talking about mundane things before turning on his sad face.


I agree with you here on the fact that most of the problem here is the strain on the troops for multiple consecutive tours. When I was in the army, I did a 6 to 7 month tour in Kosovo instead of a year plus tour just for that reason, because they knew that longer deployments would likely cause some people to snap on top of the general wear and tear on people and equipment.

I however, do not think a draft would help considering both that we already have more people willing to sign up to join the military than there are spaces open, and secondly, the quality of recruits would go down. I think we do need to keep the war in the public conscious, but a draft just wouldn't work anymore. Either way, we still need the same thing we needed when Bush volunteered the military into Iraq, that is a solid plan and an exit strategy from the middle east. The problem is that most of the solutions to the issues in the middle east are political solutions, which we are either unwilling or incapable of enacting.

[Zippo]

Bush has finally found a career he can handle doing infomercials. I think we will be better off for having him as the new Sham-Wow guy or Billy Mays.

Bush aside, this tragedy is deepened even more by the fact both that an entire culture and religion will be judged by the actions of one individual, however horrific those may have been. And secondly, this is neither the first, nor probably the last shooting that will occur on a military base.

Anyway, I think the military needs to work on identifying people with problems better before they snap and either getting them the help they need or discharging them if that isn't enough.

Ohhh with comments like these


http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5739/ibtl27bf23xd0.jpg

[Ystradmynach]

Ohhh with comments like these



You're right, I shouldn't be making fun of Billy Mays or the Sham-Wow guy like that.

[Zippo]

You're right, I shouldn't be making fun of Billy Mays or the Sham-Wow guy like that.

Forum guidelines with the whole politics thing. They get reeeeeeal henky about it.

[Zippo]

Perhaps you can remind me again which of those events involved soldiers shooting up a military base. When I mention shootings occurring on bases, I'm talking more about rangers coming home from deployment and shooting their wife or a few other people, which there was a string of these events happening just a couple of years ago. Anyway, like these other incidents, there were warning signs that Hasan was in trouble and it is possible the incident could have been prevented.

Anyway, I really don't care what Hasan was screaming when he shot up the base, the incident had as little to do with international terrorism as the Columbine Massacre had anything to do with Marilyn Manson.



Or here is a novel idea, stop judging people based on religion in the first place. The military is and will always be religiously tolerant, as such tolerance is a cornerstone of our government as conceived by our founding fathers. There are over a billion Muslims on this planet, so trying to judge all of them based on the actions of a single individual is downright dumb.

As for the international terrorism you lamely try to connect to this incident, like almost all terrorism, that has a lot more to do with politics than it ever had to do religion. Sure, the two are intertwined in middle eastern countries, but ultimately what the terrorists are after is a change in government and to gain politic power, without which they wouldn't be committing acts of terrorism.

And I only replyed about Bush because he clearly was not cut out for the job of president, thus the answer to the question of do we miss him. I don't know why you think I think he does have anything to do with those acts of terrorism, except in the prophylactic sense of not stopping international terrorism despite his intentions, in fact global terrorism went up every year he was in office.

Seriously? You need to go study up on your middle eastern history. Or better yet go plop your ass over there for awhile and see what it is really about and then come try that argument again.

I've been over there. I've spoken to a lot of civilians. I've dealt with these guys first hand. It's no where near about politics as it is about personal religious agendas.

Try better next time

[Kalanth]

I appreciate the kind words and thoughts that are going out to both the veterans and my friend who was wounded. I was discharged from the US Air Force after being diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and can understand to an extent the feelings that those soldiers go through. This does include violent moments, being quick to anger, rash decision making, and horrific periods of of rememberance. I don't know if the shooter suffered from PTSD, but if he did then I do understand what he was going through (though that does not justify his actions).

I have done some research and understand that the soldier was Muslim and some out there are saying that he was a concientious objecter to being deployed, which is a resasonable thing to say. I am not sure what they did to address his mental state prior but I can speak from experience that what they do in regards to that kind of evaluation is extremely lacking. A positive thing that could come from this event would be the advancement of screening the histories of those joining the military and further development in the treatment of those diagnosed with PTSD. I hold no anger about this mans religious beliefs regardless of his motives, and I hope he lives a long life where he can think about and relive the events of that day.

[Ystradmynach]

I appreciate the kind words and thoughts that are going out to both the veterans and my friend who was wounded. I was discharged from the US Air Force after being diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and can understand to an extent the feelings that those soldiers go through. This does include violent moments, being quick to anger, rash decision making, and horrific periods of of rememberance. I don't know if the shooter suffered from PTSD, but if he did then I do understand what he was going through (though that does not justify his actions).

I have done some research and understand that the soldier was Muslim and some out there are saying that he was a concientious objecter to being deployed, which is a resasonable thing to say. I am not sure what they did to address his mental state prior but I can speak from experience that what they do in regards to that kind of evaluation is extremely lacking. A positive thing that could come from this event would be the advancement of screening the histories of those joining the military and further development in the treatment of those diagnosed with PTSD. I hold no anger about this mans religious beliefs regardless of his motives, and I hope he lives a long life where he can think about and relive the events of that day.

This. and + rep for stating the issue so well.



Seriously? You need to go study up on your middle eastern history. Or better yet go plop your ass over there for awhile and see what it is really about and then come try that argument again.

I've been over there. I've spoken to a lot of civilians. I've dealt with these guys first hand. It's no where near about politics as it is about personal religious agendas.

Try better next time

I've already served my time in the military and have no desire to go to the middle east for any other reason, certainly not because of some comment on an anonymous forum. And I do understand a thing or two about middle eastern history and politics, as well as terrorism.

As I said earlier, religion and politics is intertwined in the middle east. but regardless of what the participants say, if you took out the religious element from the conflict in the middle east, there would still be conflict and terrorism going on based on political reasons, much more than if you somehow managed to extract the politics from the region while leaving the religion intact. That is because the nature of terrorism itself is almost always political. Hell, the iconic suicide vest was even developed by the non-religious terrorist Tamil Tigers.

Anyway, if you want to learn more about the political roots of the Global War on Terrorism, you should look up a documentary called "The Power of Nightmares". It is a couple of hours long, but it is well worth watching and you can find it online for free with a quick Google search.

[Zippo]

T




I've already served my time in the military and have no desire to go to the middle east for any other reason, certainly not because of some comment on an anonymous forum. And I do understand a thing or two about middle eastern history and politics, as well as terrorism.

As I said earlier, religion and politics is intertwined in the middle east. but regardless of what the participants say, if you took out the religious element from the conflict in the middle east, there would still be conflict and terrorism going on based on political reasons, much more than if you somehow managed to extract the politics from the region while leaving the religion intact. That is because the nature of terrorism itself is almost always political. Hell, the iconic suicide vest was even developed by the non-religious terrorist Tamil Tigers.

Anyway, if you want to learn more about the political roots of the Global War on Terrorism, you should look up a documentary called "The Power of Nightmares". It is a couple of hours long, but it is well worth watching and you can find it online for free with a quick Google search.


Were you there???

I was! And while it may be veiled in politics it is most certainly about religion.

If you've served your time then you should know better then to believe everything the media feeds you for information. Like I said I lived it while I was there.

[Enir]

Silence and show respect.

The eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month.
/salute
Peace my brothers and sisters in arms.