Warforged THF Kensai - Help me pick a signature weapon

[Freylorn]

Title basically sums it up: simple question, just looking for a quick simple answer from a good number-cruncher. Falchion, Greataxe, or (doubtfully) Greatsword - which would, in general, prove superior?

It is to be noted that I'm planning on making this guy a decent tactics fighter (taking Stunning Blow and the Warforged line to add to the DC of combat feats) so I will have a decent stun effect on tap, if that matters at all.

At Kensai III, the numbers would theoretically look like this:

Greataxe - crit 18-20 x3
Greatsword - crit 16-20 x2
Falchion - crit 14-20 x2

So all told, assuming equal swing speeds (which was, I believe, corrected - if not, I have a feeling it will be soon) does the greataxe beat the other two out? Or does the falchion prevail?

EDIT: Jay203 has raised the option of Mauls as well, since I'll be taking Stunning Blow and can make use of a 5% weighted weapon. So take that into account as an option as well with your replies, please.

[Jay203]

if you're making a tactics fighter and going to focus on stunning blow
go Maul so you can have access to weighted 5% weapons

[Freylorn]

Now see, Maul was something I hadn't thought of at all - would it be worth going for it, just for stunning blow? Or would I be giving up too much for it?

[Junts]

I don't know anyone whos tried a serious thf maul stunning blow/weighted 5 on glancing blows build yet.

You might be better off going falchion and then just switching to the maul to stun, as the maul is a bit worse vs boss mobs.

[Freylorn]

I just may end up being that person then, Junts.

This is a 28 point build, as I do not have 32 point unlocked yet. That means this guy is sure to eventually get a) rerolled, or b) reincarnated. I'm thinking I may as well try out the maul route, see how it goes, and if I don't like it fix it when I reroll/reincarnate.

Of course, that's just my thought at the moment. Input is still highly valued, so keep it coming if you can!

[Roziel_Longblade]

The stunning maul build sounds reallly cool. Can you post how it is working mid game as well as end game? Curious to know how well it stuns on glancing blows.

If you do build this can you also see if when your glancing blows hits on the same mob that you are doing your primary damage, if it needs to save twice on the stun. One from the primary and another time for the glancing.

[Freylorn]

The more I think it over, the more I really like this concept. I think I will end up building the maul stunner after all.

I am, however, having trouble figuring out how I want to lay out my enhancements and feats. Any suggestions for feat/enhancement layouts? I'm just trying to cram too many things in at once, I think.

EDIT: Here's what I've come up with for feats so far. Note that feats marked (!) are ones I'm unsure about.

1) Power Attack/Adamantine Body
2) Weapon Focus
3) THF
4) Weapon Specialization
6) Stunning Blow / Toughness
8) Imp. Crit
9) Greater Weapon Focus
10) Imp. THF
12) Greater Weapon Specialization/Greater THF
14) Cleave (!)
15) Iron Will (!)
16) Superior Weapon Focus
18) Lightning Reflexes (!)/Great Cleave (!)
20) Quick Draw (!)

[Junts]

the activation rate of different weapon abilities and added effects seems to vary (eg, some stuff like fb added damage, kotc added damage, and destruction will affect any glancing blow .. holy on the weapon doesn;'t always), so it will probably take a lot of testing to verify whether the weighted 5% is checked on any glanccing or just a percentage of them

Enhancements are very hard to plot out in advance because they tend to vary considerably based on your equipment and tomes; eg, having a +1 or +2 tome in a stat affects how many enhancements you take and how much ap is free for other stuff, and also affects progression and which ap you have to select simply for progression.

[Freylorn]

Fair point, Junts. Forget the enhancements then, I know how variable and easy to change they are.

Input on feat allocation, though, would be greatly appreciated.

[Shade]

the activation rate of different weapon abilities and added effects seems to vary (eg, some stuff like fb added damage, kotc added damage, and destruction will affect any glancing blow .. holy on the weapon doesn;'t always), so it will probably take a lot of testing to verify whether the weighted 5% is checked on any glanccing or just a percentage of them


Weighted is just a % chance to proc. 100% proc would be pretty overpowered on that.

However stunning blow also has a chance to proc. So you can stun multiplie mobs at once, or get 2 tries to stun a single mob.

Proc chance on a maxxed berserker is around 30%.. Kensai I'd imagine is similar.

I've found using weighted 5% weapons to be extremely effective on epic especially if you have another dps melee in the group with a high crit mult weapon. Basicly function as almost-vorpal, for mobs immune to vorpal =)

[Junts]

the activation rate of different weapon abilities and added effects seems to vary (eg, some stuff like fb added damage, kotc added damage, and destruction will affect any glancing blow .. holy on the weapon doesn;'t always), so it will probably take a lot of testing to verify whether the weighted 5% is checked on any glanccing or just a percentage of them

Enhancements are very hard to plot out in advance because they tend to vary considerably based on your equipment and tomes; eg, having a +1 or +2 tome in a stat affects how many enhancements you take and how much ap is free for other stuff, and also affects progression and which ap you have to select simply for progression.


edit, re feats:

great cleave is so slow its not worth it .. cleave might be too, but at least its guarnateed to give you a chance at all weighted 5 procs.

[Freylorn]

Those feats are marked for good reason. I doubted they'd be effective, I just honestly can't think of anything else to take at those levels. Suggestions are more than welcome!

[Junts]

Weighted is just a % chance to proc. 100% proc would be pretty overpowered on that.

However stunning blow also has a chance to proc. So you can stun multiplie mobs at once, or get 2 tries to stun a single mob.

Proc chance on a maxxed berserker is around 30%.. Kensai I'd imagine is similar.

I've found using weighted 5% weapons to be extremely effective on epic especially if you have another dps melee in the group with a high crit mult weapon. Basicly function as almost-vorpal, for mobs immune to vorpal =)

I use holy or maladroit of weighted 5 handwraps with holy/shock burst rings on my monk and find the effect to be tremendous, so I concur with you; the proc rate for kensai will make or break this kind of build, though, since if its too low then dual warhammers is superior.

[Jay203]

I use holy or maladroit of weighted 5 handwraps with holy/shock burst rings on my monk and find the effect to be tremendous, so I concur with you; the proc rate for kensai will make or break this kind of build, though, since if its too low then dual warhammers is superior.

take stunning blow early
move the power attack to like lvl 6 or something which is around the time you can have it on 100% of the time and not miss
while your focusing on tactics, you could consider dipping into trips as well
screw adamantine body, it's only going to lower your balance, tumble, jump, and swim
your ac isn't going to be high enough to matter, so take something else instead

personal favorite for me (going 18/2 Fighter/Monk)
7 General Feats
improved damage reduction (x7)
2 Monk Feats
Toughness, Power Attack
10 Fighter Feats
weapon focus (x3), weapon specialize (x2), stunning blow, quickdraw, improved crit, Weapon style x3, Cleave/Slicing Blow

[Solmage]

If you're going the stunning blow route, choose either greataxe of maul for the simple matter that the crits will be 3x and you'll be often auto-critting. (It is entirely possible to trip or stunning blow several enemies with one attack if done right)

If you choose anything other than mauls, get a 5% weighted maul and the feat to switch weapons quickly. Heck chances are you'll want it anyway.

[Shade]

I use holy or maladroit of weighted 5 handwraps with holy/shock burst rings on my monk and find the effect to be tremendous, so I concur with you; the proc rate for kensai will make or break this kind of build, though, since if its too low then dual warhammers is superior.

Well for epic, where the actual stun rarely lands.. Dual warhammers would be superior either way ofcourse.. As the greater attack rate (espeically for most players who do not use twitch attack for thf) would far outweigh the small chance to stun multiple mobs.

The THF tactics advantage applies mainly when your stuff lands quite often. As you can enjoy multi stuns and trips every once in a while without relying as much on chance.

Actually I think a single weighted 4/5% with x3 crit, such as the Hammer of leaden clouds (nicer then tenderizer in most cases) + a min2/lit2 heavy pic, dwarven axe or khopesh would be a more effective combo if your group was light on other melee with high crit mult weapons. This is actually a combo I enjoy for Stealer of souls and prey on the hunter on my twf barb. Hammer of leaden clouds + +5 shock dwarven axe of greater giant bane generally rips them up quite fast. 3000+ hp cut thru in under 6 seconds after a proc/stun.

Tho if you had a very effective high crit person in your group like a berserker or anyone with heavy picks, going pure weighted would be superior.

[Shade]

If you choose anything other than mauls, get a 5% weighted maul and the feat to switch weapons quickly. Heck chances are you'll want it anyway.

The feat to switch weapons quickly.. Quickdraw.. Actually doesn't let you switch weapons quicker at all (being that actual action is instant anyways). It simply reduces the activation delay of swapping the weapon after an attack, but not the delay of attacking after the new weapon is equipped. As such the delay is still around 1.5 seconds...

1.5 seconds means 3-6 lost attacks, versus an auto crit target, this is a massive unacceptable loss.

In most scenario's, youl'll do greater DPS and total damage by simply continuing to swing with your maul. Really only worth swapping if your using a x2 crit like a trenderizer, swap up to a bursting x3/4 crit quickly.

[Solmage]

The feat to switch weapons quickly.. Quickdraw.. Actually doesn't let you switch weapons quicker at all (being that actual action is instant anyways). It simply reduces the activation delay of swapping the weapon after an attack, but not the delay of attacking after the new weapon is equipped. As such the delay is still around 1.5 seconds...

1.5 seconds means 3-6 lost attacks, versus an auto crit target, this is a massive unacceptable loss.

In most scenario's, youl'll do greater DPS and total damage by simply continuing to swing with your maul. Really only worth swapping if your using a x2 crit like a trenderizer, swap up to a bursting x3/4 crit quickly.

I am pretty sure that the way it's working on my fighter there is no 1.5 second delay - I'm switching and swinging within half a second.

The reason for switching however is that the damage between a kensai-spec'd lightning 2 greataxe that fully penetrates devil DR vs say an icyburst maul that doesn't is extremely significant. If I ever get a holyburst maul of 5%, or shocking burst silver maul, chances are I won't swap.

Also, quick-draw seems to lower the delay when activating haste boost, which really makes it a must-have feat for fighters.

[onethreeone]

take stunning blow early
move the power attack to like lvl 6 or something which is around the time you can have it on 100% of the time and not miss
while your focusing on tactics, you could consider dipping into trips as well
screw adamantine body, it's only going to lower your balance, tumble, jump, and swim
your ac isn't going to be high enough to matter, so take something else instead

personal favorite for me (going 18/2 Fighter/Monk)
7 General Feats
improved damage reduction (x7)
2 Monk Feats
Toughness, Power Attack
10 Fighter Feats
weapon focus (x3), weapon specialize (x2), stunning blow, quickdraw, improved crit, Weapon style x3, Cleave/Slicing Blow

So something like below? (I went THF / ITHF instead of cleave/slicing) Enhancements stop around lvl10, but they should be pretty obvious by then.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Maul Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Maul Specialization I


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw