Why kopesh?

[jeenne]

Hi guys,
I was wondering for a while now....what's the big deal with a kopesh? I see a ton of builds that take an extra feat just to be able to swing a kopesh. Why? What's the big deal with it? I mean, it doesn't do more damage or anything really.

Thanks in Advance :)

[Visty]

best onehander in game

[Adarin]

EDIT: So I had a post about how they were statistically average (basing my assumptions off of a translation from DnD [2d4 18-20/x2]), but then I reviewed the abomination that is the Kopesh in DDO and think somebody is off their rocker.

1d8 19-20/x3 for a normal weapon is stastistically superior to anything else DnD has to offer. Nothing in DDO comes close (as opposed to some of the wierd weapons in PnP).

They need to make it 2 handed and be done with it.

[KoboldKiller]

Because everybody says so.

This argument has raged on forever. I say this, use what you want or what fits the character you have in mind. I have a human melee right now that I am using Heavy picks on. That's MY choice. I didn't want to use a feat for Khopesh because that doesn't fit the feel for this character. Another reason I avoid Khopesh is because EVERYBODY uses them which 1) Makes them hard to find 2) Even if you can find them the prices are outrageous.

Anyway that's my 2cp. Argue all you want abut the damage yada yada I don't care. I don't use them.

[WeaselKing]

19-20/x3

[Junts]

The khopesh does indeed do far. far more damage than its competitors:

at mid to higher levels, your + damage modifier will be in the 20s 30s, or even higher. This makes weapons that have larger critical ranges and amplifications more powerful. While when your +damage is +5, a rapier and longsword and battleaxe are all roughly competitive (due to the rapier being only 1d6), when your + damage increases so much, then things with larger critical ranges are more powerful (eg, the rapier does way more damage than the battleaxe or the longsword .. the extra base damage doesn't help).

The Khopesh is a 3x multiplier weapon with a base critical range of 19-20; with improved critical it crits 17-20 for x3, which means it provides even more magnification to your damage than an 18-20 x2 weapon. Think about it like this .. with a improved critical rapier, your crit range is 15-20: out of every 20 swings, you will get 6 that do 2x damage ..that's an extra 6 swings worth of damage from the critical

With a Khopesh, you will get 4 swings in 20 that do 3x damage .. that will give you a total of 8 extra swings of damage from the critical hits.

Short of the very rare effects that boost critical range (like Kensai III), this means that -the Khopesh is completely unmatched for pure endgame damage dealing potential; it is 5-15% more damage than any other weapon as long as you aren't a weapon finesse build-. Certain races that get enhancements to a weapon (drow with rapiers, elves and scimitars, dwarves with dwarven axes) get close or competitive with the Khopesh via their extra +to damage, but they never pass it. However, sometimes they get close enough that characters of those races will refrain from spending the feat, because they're not gaining that much added damage from the Khopesh.

Khopesh is the only exotic weapon feat on DDO worth purchasing, and its very worth its cost. While at low levels the damage may not be very consequential, for level 20 twf strength builds, the Khopesh has a massive impact.

[Junts]

My only estimate is that appearances matter. I've seen people number crunch in DnD since 1st edition. Sometimes it works, but those characters are only marginally better than any other solid build. I definitely will not be joining the Kopesh bandwagon since statistically they are average even if they do get big hits more often.


This is simply untrue; with improved crit (which everyone has), Khopeshes are statistically superior to every weapon option in the game, and by a margin wider than that granted by most other dps-boosting feats.

[WeaselKing]

This is simply untrue; with improved crit (which everyone has), Khopeshes are statistically superior to every weapon option in the game, and by a margin wider than that granted by most other dps-boosting feats.

I think a scimitar specced Favored Soul comes close though.

[Junts]

I think a scimitar specced Favored Soul comes close though.

Pretty close, but they have a ton of scimitar boosts; the straight +2 racials leave scimitar and rapier pretty comfortably behind, since unlike greensteel DA, greensteel scim and rapier do not pick up a huge amount of base damage (da going from d10 to 2d8 is why gs da users with axe enhancements can catch the Khopesh)

[Adarin]

This is simply untrue; with improved crit (which everyone has), Khopeshes are statistically superior to every weapon option in the game, and by a margin wider than that granted by most other dps-boosting feats.

I editted my previous post. New position: Kopeshes are busted. Nerf Kopeshes!

[arminius]

I editted my previous post. New position: Kopeshes are busted. Nerf Kopeshes!

<gets a big wad of cotton and duct tape ready, eying Adrin nonchalantly, waiting for him to turn around>

;)

[Junts]

I editted my previous post. New position: Kopeshes are busted. Nerf Kopeshes!

You've just joined a significant minority (20-25% or so) of ddo players; most of the rest know its overpowered but just love them too much.

They probably won't ever fix it because there are so many crafted Khopeshes out there, but they have done a good job of boosting the strength of other weapons to make them worth thinking about

To be honest though, Khopesh is the only exotic weapon feat that works; its the only one thats good enough people would think about spending a feat on it. They'd be better off improving the other exotic weapons (espeically bastard swords) so that it had competitors. Making it stupid to buy an exotic weapon feat just makes it pointless to have them.

The dynamic between 'use racial weapon and spend AP points, or use a precious feat and not' is a decent char creation decision. For halflings, humans and warforged, though (especially humans with the free feat) its self-evident though.

[arminius]

You've just joined a significant minority (20-25% or so) of ddo players; most of the rest know its overpowered but just love them too much.

They probably won't ever fix it because there are so many crafted Khopeshes out there, but they have done a good job of boosting the strength of other weapons to make them worth thinking about

To be honest though, Khopesh is the only exotic weapon feat that works; its the only one thats good enough people would think about spending a feat on it. They'd be better off improving the other exotic weapons (espeically bastard swords) so that it had competitors. Making it stupid to buy an exotic weapon feat just makes it pointless to have them.

The dynamic between 'use racial weapon and spend AP points, or use a precious feat and not' is a decent char creation decision. For halflings, humans and warforged, though (especially humans with the free feat) its self-evident though.

This is exactly right. Feats are a BIG DEAL. Spending one should get you something tangible, and maybe in PnP "flavor" is cool depending on your DM and your campaign, but DDO is too combat intensive to waste feats without getting something in return.

If it wasn't the expanded crit range, then taking khopesh should get you something cool. I don't think plusses to trip would be enough, it should be something passive. Really, as Junts says, the outlier isn't "why is khopesh so awesome" but "why are all the other exotic weapons so lame."

_

[Emili]

First DDO is not DnD (a turn based rpg). DDO is a realtime MMO based on DnD... the fact that DDO is a migh magic campain and people sport obscene damage multipliers favors the Khopesh among other weapons by noticable margin... as that is what the Khopesh does,

It amplifies damage outout:

The weapon in DDO is not the same as it is in PnP ... In DDO it has the damage and critical threat range of a longsword - but was altered from the x2 multiplier it had in PnP to x3 (similar to an axe).

The result is the higher your damage modifiers are the more the Khopesh yields.

i.e. So let's say we have a melee fighter with improved crit in high-end game normally sits at +40 average damage above the 1d8 a weapon yields ... so figure 20 swings of a longsword - 924.5 and the Khopesh - 1201.5 : this is close to 25% increase given 20 swings... The higher the Damage mods go up the bigger the gap...

What is even also prevalent are critical dependent damages such as seeker, holy burst, acid blast and such - all of these now are 50% on the khopesh over a longsword. i.e. a bloodstone adds +18 to the crit instead of +12... bursts are x1.5 the longswords burst etc...


I editted my previous post. New position: Kopeshes are busted. Nerf Kopeshes!

Now then, before you convict... consider this. How many players would be under effect, how many human and halfling once thought themselves on par with dwarven and elven melee damage output now fall behind them in dps? Aside, the dwarves elves, halfings and WF have many supporting enhancements humans lack for melee. How many would think to respec from Khopesh into rapiers relying on wop or such.


This is exactly right. Feats are a BIG DEAL. Spending one should get you something tangible, and maybe in PnP "flavor" is cool depending on your DM and your campaign, but DDO is too combat intensive to waste feats without getting something in return.

If it wasn't the expanded crit range, then taking khopesh should get you something cool. I don't think plusses to trip would be enough, it should be something passive. Really, as Junts says, the outlier isn't "why is khopesh so awesome" but "why are all the other exotic weapons so lame."
_
Over two years ago my main was Bastardsword proficient... mainly due to she came from PnP. The weapon there was two-handed for all and switchable to one handed should you have the feat, thus my PnP character who was a TWF btw... was able to go either TWF or use both hands on one from time to time... enter DDO. The use of a feat did not seem so bad at first as a Bastardsword and Dwarven axe were about the same, we only had four (yes four) usable enhancement slots back then ... come gianthold the enhancement system openned up. Now all of a sudden where people were once pressed into certain role before everyone became more versitile... especially those who had supporting racial combat enhancements. LoL, I remember arguing with MT and Borrow0 about all that... they told me so what if dwarves all the racial feats equal a fighter, take more fighter enhancements... I remember telling them well it cost me 12 AP to equal what they get for 8 in Armour mastery ... same for tacticals and they plenty to add +2 damage to their weapon, etc... is true of every other so thus they actually get more.

They should bring such other weapons to the forefront in this game... however one of the biggest factors in every MMO - because it is realtime - is DPS. At the end of the raid ... the talk usually is not about how great it was the boss was missing near every swing on me for 10 minutes... people note, **** he went down in 4 minutes. The longer people are battleing that boss the more tedious it seems. People touts memories of 16 minute raids... and try to forget those which took an hour, the later is more of an embarrassment to them.