Thoughts after 3 weeks

[Paygan]

Following are my observations and opinions after 3 + weeks of play.

Ive loved d&d since the paper version and longed for the day a decent online mmo was made that reflected as close as possible the paper game. They have done a great job in many ways, i really enjoy playing the online version, but (you knew that was coming)

Problems

There is a serious lack of player base especially in non US times that make groups difficult to get outside of about a 4 or 5 hour window which is the peak US play time.

The restrictive payment methods that are forced upon us stop many players such as myself from ever paying for vip status or expansions. I refuse to get a credit card as the fee's and overhead are a huge rip off. I would get VIP tommorow if i could buy a pre-paid card.

The expense of nearly all of the items in the mall are WAY overpriced, to the point of being ridiculous, after almost 4 weeks play i can maybe buy 1 expansion that i'll use a couple of times with the points ive earnt, but there doesnt seem any point. Just to simply buy shared bank slots is over 1400 points, no rasonable person can find this sensible.

AH search is a joke, need to be able to search by item name/type/buff type/stat etc etc etc

The economy is crippled by not allowing free to play characters to post more then one auction, so many items that could be available to the community are simply sold to vendors and the competition suffers horribly, the prices on AH on most servers are outrageous. Yes im aware that many gold sellers etc mite exploit this and set up free accounts to sell stuff to make gold, but at some point you need to weigh up the benefit to the community vs scum bag profiteers.

LFG flags need vast improvement, you should be able to specify what u are looking for a group for appart form a brief comment no one bothers reading or using, there needs to be a dedicated channel for people looking for group, and / or a base location people can converge on to find people looking for group. Can we have a central LFG bar? :)

There needs to be a LOT LOT more information in game, and during character generation that explains to players about stat stacking, the value of certain stats and the long term impact of them. So SO SO many people are turned of this game after rolling a character badly and playing it for weeks and weeks and then finding, oh god im pathetically useless because i didnt take such and such stat or skill. Best way to discourage people EVER.

The trade skills system seems to be mired in mystery and dis-information, and is woefully inadequate, kinda feels like it was just slapped on as a last minute thought.

The dungeons i find on the most part are well thought out and often challenging, its great that u can hire a hireling and solo a lot of places when there isnt much else to do but this kinda gets dull after u run the same places multiple times and get penalised more each time :\

After all these complaint id like to say i really do like the game, when i can get a decent group, f2p was a good idea to increase the player base, but the restrictions and expense and lack of options is hamstringing the original idea imo.

Well there just my thoughts and opinions, many will disagree no doubt and flame me blah blah.

/whine

[Trillea]

Following are my observations and opinions after 3 + weeks of play.

Ive loved d&d since the paper version and longed for the day a decent online mmo was made that reflected as close as possible the paper game. They have done a great job in many ways, i really enjoy playing the online version, but (you knew that was coming)

1st, welcome to the DDO community, and glad to have you!

Problems

There is a serious lack of player base especially in non US times that make groups difficult to get outside of about a 4 or 5 hour window which is the peak US play time.
Which server do you play on? I know that Thelanis is well stocked with players during off-peak hours due to a high number of people (especially Australians come to mind) being from other countries.

The restrictive payment methods that are forced upon us stop many players such as myself from ever paying for vip status or expansions. I refuse to get a credit card as the fee's and overhead are a huge rip off. I would get VIP tommorow if i could buy a pre-paid card.
Have you tried paying with PayPal?

The expense of nearly all of the items in the mall are WAY overpriced, to the point of being ridiculous, after almost 4 weeks play i can maybe buy 1 expansion that i'll use a couple of times with the points ive earnt, but there doesnt seem any point. Just to simply buy shared bank slots is over 1400 points, no rasonable person can find this sensible.
The price points may change in the future, after they see what is popular and what is not. Hopefully some of these will come down.

AH search is a joke, need to be able to search by item name/type/buff type/stat etc etc etc
Heh this is something that the playerbase has been asking for for a LONG time, we feel your pain.

The economy is crippled by not allowing free to play characters to post more then one auction, so many items that could be available to the community are simply sold to vendors and the competition suffers horribly, the prices on AH on most servers are outrageous. Yes im aware that many gold sellers etc mite exploit this and set up free accounts to sell stuff to make gold, but at some point you need to weigh up the benefit to the community vs scum bag profiteers.
I believe once you buy ANY Turbine Point pack this restriction is at least lessened if not lifted completely.

LFG flags need vast improvement, you should be able to specify what u are looking for a group for appart form a brief comment no one bothers reading or using, there needs to be a dedicated channel for people looking for group, and / or a base location people can converge on to find people looking for group. Can we have a central LFG bar? :)
Not sure what to sayon this one, I find the LFM panel easy to use. If you are looking to run a specific quest, start a group and say "need help" or somesuch.

There needs to be a LOT LOT more information in game, and during character generation that explains to players about stat stacking, the value of certain stats and the long term impact of them. So SO SO many people are turned of this game after rolling a character badly and playing it for weeks and weeks and then finding, oh god im pathetically useless because i didnt take such and such stat or skill. Best way to discourage people EVER.
I agree here, character creation needs to have more info given during the creation process.

The trade skills system seems to be mired in mystery and dis-information, and is woefully inadequate, kinda feels like it was just slapped on as a last minute thought.
Not sure what you mean by trade skills system...

The dungeons i find on the most part are well thought out and often challenging, its great that u can hire a hireling and solo a lot of places when there isnt much else to do but this kinda gets dull after u run the same places multiple times and get penalised more each time :\
This will be alleviated somewhat as you buy quest packs, but we P2Pers feel this one too. We are always asking for new content as well at all levels of the game.

After all these complaint id like to say i really do like the game, when i can get a decent group, f2p was a good idea to increase the player base, but the restrictions and expense and lack of options is hamstringing the original idea imo.

Well there just my thoughts and opinions, many will disagree no doubt and flame me blah blah.

/whine

Responses above, and once again welcome, I hope you are for the most part enjoying yourself!

[Paygan]

I meant crafting, trade skills maybe is an old old term, im old forgive me =p

[ReaperAlexEU]

the crafting system was indeed slapped on at the last minute :)

turbine have been exploring with different methods of implementing a crafting system, the shroud and the market place rituals are the first thing they tried. they then moved on to the lottery style dragon touched system and are now playing with the shroud system again in the latest expansion.

at the moment the shroud system is not an implementation of DnD crafting, its a method to customise your own raid loot. i don't know if they will ever implement a DnD crafting system where we get free reign to make any item according to the DnD rules.

[Corebreach]

LFG flags need vast improvement, you should be able to specify what u are looking for a group for appart form a brief comment no one bothers reading or using, there needs to be a dedicated channel for people looking for group, and / or a base location people can converge on to find people looking for group.
From what I've heard, players who want to join a group don't set their LFG flag and wait for a group to find them. They check to see which existing groups have their LFM flag set and ask to be invited into one that they'd fit into. That's the convention that apparently developed in this game before the F2P system began. The LFM panel lets teams specify desired classes, a level range, which quest they're doing, plus a short comment, which is just about all you need.

[Arianrhod]

Keep up the good feedback :)

The store & pricing model didn't have a whole lot of time for public testing before the relaunch, so more data about what will entice people to pay and what will just send them looking elsewhere is probably quite valuable ;)

[Kralgnax]

Like you, I'm a pretty new player with fairly extensive DnD background, so I'll respond briefly where I can add something. Excisions are in the interest of brevity.


Are you using th LFM window? If you're at least level 4 or 5, you should be able to find groups fairly easily. Many early groups will be problematic, but stick it out, as it does get a lot better.[/COLOR]

The expense of nearly all of the items in the mall are WAY overpriced, to the point of being ridiculous, after almost 4 weeks play i can maybe buy 1 expansion that i'll use a couple of times with the points ive earnt, but there doesnt seem any point. Just to simply buy shared bank slots is over 1400 points, no rasonable person can find this sensible.
Oddly enough, I just bought a shared bank slot, as it was on sale (~1125 points - about $12.00 US ), hardly a prohibitive cost for the convenience (to me). I consider mysef a reasonable person.
Now, of course, willingness (and ability) to pay will vary widely. I personally believe the shared bank slot should be unlockable, but if the prices strike you as too high, the answer is simple - don't pay. The only thing you can't do any other way is transfer bound to account items.

The economy is crippled by not allowing free to play characters to post more then one auction, so many items that could be available to the community are simply sold to vendors and the competition suffers horribly, the prices on AH on most servers are outrageous. Yes im aware that many gold sellers etc mite exploit this and set up free accounts to sell stuff to make gold, but at some point you need to weigh up the benefit to the community vs scum bag profiteers.
My 2cp worth - you really want to be premium (Pay pal or whatnot). One one-time purchase of Turbine points gets you 4 character slots, unlimited auctions and priority log in ove the unwashed masses. Where else can you get a game this good for under $10?

LFG flags need vast improvement, you should be able to specify what u are looking for a group for appart form a brief comment no one bothers reading or using, there needs to be a dedicated channel for people looking for group, and / or a base location people can converge on to find people looking for group. Can we have a central LFG bar? :)
See LFM above.


The trade skills system seems to be mired in mystery and dis-information, and is woefully inadequate, kinda feels like it was just slapped on as a last minute thought.
There is no trade skill / crafting system, really. I have mixed feelings about that

The dungeons i find on the most part are well thought out and often challenging, its great that u can hire a hireling and solo a lot of places when there isnt much else to do but this kinda gets dull after u run the same places multiple times and get penalised more each time :\
Umm...go somewhere new? Or do the dungeon on a different difficulty setting? Getting better at finding groups will help a lot. You do need to be aware that there is precious little free content above about level 8.

/whine want some cheese with that? ;)


My simple-minded take is that DDO is pretty good, hope you have fun playing it.
Edited: formatting is HARD

[Stabsy]

Ive loved d&d since the paper version and longed for the day a decent online mmo was made that reflected as close as possible the paper game. They have done a great job in many ways, i really enjoy playing the online version

Me too, been playing 6 weeks now, loving it


There is a serious lack of player base especially in non US times that make groups difficult to get outside of about a 4 or 5 hour window which is the peak US play time.

I'm in the UK and I find it easy to get groups.
- check the LFM tool and be prepared to run a dungeon you hadn't planned for
- start your own groups
- it's easier if you play a healer. When I'm on my cleric I see LFM groups that are only visible to clerics or favoured souls
- (at least in the early levels) check chat. A lot of people don't use the LFM tool and just use chats. Sure, they're noobs but sometimes you just need warm bodies to fill a group.
- also if you're playing on several servers or have alts of different levels check for groups for your alt/on another server if you can't find groups for your main.


The restrictive payment methods that are forced upon us stop many players such as myself from ever paying for vip status or expansions. I refuse to get a credit card as the fee's and overhead are a huge rip off. I would get VIP tommorow if i could buy a pre-paid card.

Hmm, my credit card is free as long as I don't go into the red.

Anyway they should certainly look at expanding payment options outside the US. The reason they haven't is perhaps because there is a rival DDO franchise that holds the rights to Europe (Codemasters). There's currently a legal wrangle between Atari and Turbine that seems to be keeping Codemasters from going F2P. I think Turbine should actively encourage Europeans who prefer the F2P model to join their servers.


The expense of nearly all of the items in the mall are WAY overpriced, to the point of being ridiculous, after almost 4 weeks play i can maybe buy 1 expansion that i'll use a couple of times with the points ive earnt, but there doesnt seem any point. Just to simply buy shared bank slots is over 1400 points, no rasonable person can find this sensible.

After 4 weeks I had 996 points. You can get 750 just levelling one character on each of the 6 servers to 100 favour. Bank is expensive and unnecessary - just mail stuff between alts. (Arguably alts are unnecessary in the first place).

Personally I think the price is just right to tempt people to spend money. I bought some TP after originally starting here with the intention of not paying anything. Had it been cheaper/less grind to get stuff I wouldn't have paid them that money.

It's just cheap enough that spending some money gets me all I'm likely to need for a long time (as I only really buy adventure packs).


AH search is a joke, need to be able to search by item name/type/buff type/stat etc etc etc

Agreed


The economy is crippled by not allowing free to play characters to post more then one auction

From a business model point of view this is one of the big draws to spending some money. If you spend just $6.99 you get rid of this annoying restriction as a free perk (along with a number of other perks). This will tempt a lot of people to spend real money which is what they want to happen.

From a game design point of view it is quite clever. You have to see it in terms of money supply. AH sellers are a gold sink since they move gold from one player to another with about 30% of each transaction removed from the money supply. People who vendor are a gold creator since vendors effectively mint new money and add it into the system whenever they buy stuff.

Now the economy here is broken, 3 year old players with personal mountains of plat pushes prices up for any twink they might want to make. But in design terms the dynamic tension between F2Ps who mainly vendor and VIPs who mainly AH is very healthy and is one of the ways in which F2P players are good for the game even if they don't contribute real cash.


LFG flags need vast improvement

The game actually has one of the best grouping mechanisms I've seen after playing many MMOs.

Read this: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=203997


There needs to be a LOT LOT more information in game, and during character generation that explains to players about stat stacking, the value of certain stats and the long term impact of them. So SO SO many people are turned of this game after rolling a character badly and playing it for weeks and weeks and then finding, oh god im pathetically useless because i didnt take such and such stat or skill. Best way to discourage people EVER.

Every complex game suffers from this. Eve certainly does, its learning curve has been called a learning cliff.

The information is out there. The forums, the compendium, the wiki.

The information is in-game too. Mouseovers, tips, etc.

People don't read stuff unless they really have to. And they don't discover they have to until they hit a wall.

The solution is "easy to learn hard to master" which is Blizzard's mantra and something they did pretty successfully with WOW and Diablo and Starcraft. However DDO can't adopt that style without not being a D&D based game because D&D starts complex and stays complex.

It's not all negative though. A lot of people play WoW who really can't handle complexity and fill that MMO's end-game with incompetent whiners and freeloaders. This game by starting complex discourages those people from staying long enough to be a pain to the people who can handle complexity.


The trade skills system seems to be mired in mystery and dis-information, and is woefully inadequate, kinda feels like it was just slapped on as a last minute thought.

All of the above appears to be true. As a new player I suspect I'll hit level 20 be in a raid and someone will go why aren't you using crafted gear?


The dungeons i find on the most part are well thought out and often challenging, its great that u can hire a hireling and solo a lot of places when there isnt much else to do but this kinda gets dull after u run the same places multiple times and get penalised more each time :\

Get better at grouping, particularly at getting your own groups started and this problem will go away.

[dogstar721]

Sarlona seemed to have quite a few non-US time players on last night, with several looking for group

[Stabsy]

@ Kralgnax My word, great minds think alike sir!

[Kralgnax]

Either that, or fools seldom differ.:D

Cheers!

[VonBek]

From what I've heard, players who want to join a group don't set their LFG flag and wait for a group to find them.

Yep Rumor has it, many players disable general chat to limit visual clutter. General chat tends to disperse conversations.

They check to see which existing groups have their LFM flag set and ask to be invited into one that they'd fit into. That's the convention that apparently developed in this game before the F2P system began. The LFM panel lets teams specify desired classes, a level range, which quest they're doing, plus a short comment, which is just about all you need.

Yep, again. LFM concentrates team building into a central locale.


Two Characters.

[Quintun]

Following are my observations and opinions after 3 + weeks of play.

Ive loved d&d since the paper version and longed for the day a decent online mmo was made that reflected as close as possible the paper game. They have done a great job in many ways, i really enjoy playing the online version, but (you knew that was coming)

Problems

There is a serious lack of player base especially in non US times that make groups difficult to get outside of about a 4 or 5 hour window which is the peak US play time.

The restrictive payment methods that are forced upon us stop many players such as myself from ever paying for vip status or expansions. I refuse to get a credit card as the fee's and overhead are a huge rip off. I would get VIP tommorow if i could buy a pre-paid card.

The expense of nearly all of the items in the mall are WAY overpriced, to the point of being ridiculous, after almost 4 weeks play i can maybe buy 1 expansion that i'll use a couple of times with the points ive earnt, but there doesnt seem any point. Just to simply buy shared bank slots is over 1400 points, no rasonable person can find this sensible.

AH search is a joke, need to be able to search by item name/type/buff type/stat etc etc etc

The economy is crippled by not allowing free to play characters to post more then one auction, so many items that could be available to the community are simply sold to vendors and the competition suffers horribly, the prices on AH on most servers are outrageous. Yes im aware that many gold sellers etc mite exploit this and set up free accounts to sell stuff to make gold, but at some point you need to weigh up the benefit to the community vs scum bag profiteers.

LFG flags need vast improvement, you should be able to specify what u are looking for a group for appart form a brief comment no one bothers reading or using, there needs to be a dedicated channel for people looking for group, and / or a base location people can converge on to find people looking for group. Can we have a central LFG bar? :)

There needs to be a LOT LOT more information in game, and during character generation that explains to players about stat stacking, the value of certain stats and the long term impact of them. So SO SO many people are turned of this game after rolling a character badly and playing it for weeks and weeks and then finding, oh god im pathetically useless because i didnt take such and such stat or skill. Best way to discourage people EVER.

The trade skills system seems to be mired in mystery and dis-information, and is woefully inadequate, kinda feels like it was just slapped on as a last minute thought.

The dungeons i find on the most part are well thought out and often challenging, its great that u can hire a hireling and solo a lot of places when there isnt much else to do but this kinda gets dull after u run the same places multiple times and get penalised more each time :\

After all these complaint id like to say i really do like the game, when i can get a decent group, f2p was a good idea to increase the player base, but the restrictions and expense and lack of options is hamstringing the original idea imo.

Well there just my thoughts and opinions, many will disagree no doubt and flame me blah blah.

/whine


I have to disagree on the economy being crippled because F2P can only post one item. Which server are you on? On Cannith I see F2P using the trade channel all the time. The only problem is most of what they are offering is not worth buying. The AH is full of enough garbage most days anyway.

I have found the LFM system to be fine when used right. Hell it even tells me the group makeup so I can avoid groups that look like they have no chance from the start.

WHen you make a character it does tell you what the important stats are, I fail to see how you can blame Turbine for not holding your hand and leading you to level 20.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

The restrictive payment methods that are forced upon us stop many players such as myself from ever paying for vip status or expansions. I refuse to get a credit card as the fee's and overhead are a huge rip off. I would get VIP tommorow if i could buy a pre-paid card.

http://www.paybycash.com/ddo/codelist.php

That's where I buy my gametime codes, no CC needed. I use the Interac by email option, that works off my bank card.

[ivar415]

Some very good points.
What caught my eye was the Vendors. ALWAYS use the Brokers in the Market first!
THEN sell the rest to the Vendors you have REPUTATION with!!

http://ddowiki.com/page/Haggle

Very sneaky little game mechanic that just completely flew over my head initially.

[DANTEIL]

Some very good points.
What caught my eye was the Vendors. ALWAYS use the Brokers in the Market first!
THEN sell the rest to the Vendors you have REPUTATION with!!

http://ddowiki.com/page/Haggle

Very sneaky little game mechanic that just completely flew over my head initially.

Newbie question:

What's the difference between a vendor and a broker? I just usually sell to whomever's convenient because I hate running all over just to unload that great axe of nothingness that I just pulled. :)

[ivar415]

When you hit buy all the stuff just keeps scrolling in for a while. Depending on what other people sold him.

Also they are explicitly called brokers. You can find them in the Marketplace right down after the Trainers.

Edit:Oh and you get a much better deal selling to them as the Haggle page shows.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Newbie question:

What's the difference between a vendor and a broker? I just usually sell to whomever's convenient because I hate running all over just to unload that great axe of nothingness that I just pulled. :)

1) Brokers pay more than vendors but only buy a particular group of items (ie - weapons worth 8000 gp to 16000 gp), vendors and barkeeps will buy anything.
2) Vendors sell consumables and have an endless supply. A small number of vendors sell low end (+1) weapons with an endless supply.
3) Whatever items are sold to brokers are available for resale, once the broker sells it to someone (or the instance the broker is in goes unused for 5 minutes) that item is gone. Brokers therefore have a constantly changing stock - a good place to go to look for items if you are new

[ivar415]

I hate running all over just to unload that great axe of nothingness that I just pulled. :)It does get tiresome. Wish I´d found out earlier that the Longstrider spell stacks with my Ranger speed running boost. Maybe I´ll even go back to Korthos and get the Expeditious Retreat Boots to find out if those will stack as well.
Just have to remember to hit a tavern reloading all the used up stuff.

[VonBek]

Brokers for level, 4, 6, and 5-20 armor and weapons may be found in Houses Kundarak, and Denieth, respectively. House Kundarak's Armor brokers are conveniently located close to the teleporter, in the House "K" ward. The House Denieth weapon brokers are located not close to the teleporter, in the House "D" ward.

TIP: get to know the wards. find the teleporters/taverns/vendors/brokers and quest givers/quest entrances.

Once you get to know the wards, and their vendors/brokers, you can build a route that lets you sell/repair/restock efficiently. It will pay off by helping you spend more time actually playing in quest, once you get to know the "support system". (I still use "ward reconnaissance" to entertain nieces and nephews, and friends' kids. :rolleyes: Let them run a level one around. Beats having 'em watch that Disney tape for the nth time.)