Shroud Drop Rates

[Jacoby]

Please, please, please increase the drop rates in the Shroud or better yet all around.


How many runs does it take to make a dual shard tier three item?

Answer for me: 30

I have done well over 60 runs and have two tier three items, that is just an insane amount of runs and only two tier three items to show for it.


Other drop rates that should be increased, especially since they are now obsolete: Dragon scales in TOR (these should also drop in rare chests or as collectables radomly found in the explorer areas and quests. Tomes and Shields in Necroplis. How many players to you see running around with the shields and weapons from those quests? C'mon turbine, make the game worth playing.

[InfidelofHaLL]

depends on how much u run, if u can trade for stuff are how lucky you get on loot rolls u dont need to craft to get good stuff u may feel that u need to but there are regular weapons and items that are just as good as crafted items

[Draccus]

I had my first dual shard on my 18th run and my second before my 25th. I only have two characters who run the shroud and one of them is rarely played. I made some good trades for large ingredients.

With 74 runs on one character and 22 on the other, I've been able to craft 5 dual shard items and 3 single-shard items.

It doesn't seem too bad to me. If you're not trying to equip 10 characters with bloodstones, firestorm greaves, scourge chokers and spectral gloves, you can convert those items to piles of larges.

[woundead85]

I actually agree with OP. Since Turbine is putting out new items and item upgrades, this is very reasonable to review drop rates of long-ago-leet loot.
For instance, it's been a while I've seen someone run around in Blackscale armor. It's even getting pretty hard to trade it at the rate of 4Black=1Blue.

[Tourette]

i have about 20 runs across 2 characters and have yet to get a large scale.
ugh

[EKKM]

i have about 20 runs across 2 characters and have yet to get a large scale.
ugh

I was pulling so many scales I was trading them for stones and bones because I never pulled those.

I just got enough ingredients for my first dual shard item and only have one other item ATM for 2 characters that run the shroud. I would say 20 runs between them.

Got most of my larges from trading a no ML +2 INT tome and a mysterious artifact.

[dredre9987]

Honestly i dont think drop rates should be posted. think of what happened in diablo

[CE2JRH123]

What happened in Diablo? I played for quite a while and never saw worked out drop chances really affecting the game. Except that people tended to run the same content repeatedly (Mephisto/Pindleskin). And hearing discussion about 70+ shrouds runs, are you trying to say we wouldn't want DDO turn into a game that involved running the same content repeatedly?

[Minor_Threat]

I actually agree with OP. Since Turbine is putting out new items and item upgrades, this is very reasonable to review drop rates of long-ago-leet loot.
For instance, it's been a while I've seen someone run around in Blackscale armor. It's even getting pretty hard to trade it at the rate of 4Black=1Blue.

Yes but shroud items are still top end equiptment, the dragonscale armor is much less desired.

[Angelus_dead]

Please, please, please increase the drop rates in the Shroud or better yet all around.
The key problem there is that the relevant devs do not understand how Shroud loot works.

In an audio interview 3-4 months ago, the devs said this: "All Shroud ingredients of a certain size drop at the same chance, therefore it's fine"

Obviously that is untrue: Shroud recipes use Scales and Stones at a much higher rate than they do the other ingredients. The demand on ingredients is not close to equal, so it is Scales or Stones that are the limiting factor to building items, and the rest is relatively almost free. (At the moment, I have 30+ of Arrows, Bones, Chains, and Shrap, 8 Stones, and 1 Scale)

[RobbinB]

I just don't understand why Turbine doesn't just introduce a trade in mechanism like they did in gianthold. Maybe they like that the shroud needs to be farmed and they don't want to make it too easy to craft gs items. Fine. Instead of a 3:1 turn in set it at 8:1, heck 12:1, 16:1, 20:1, something. At least that guarantees that one way or another you will have some devil scales if you are willing to put in the time.

[Cyr]

I just don't understand why Turbine doesn't just introduce a trade in mechanism like they did in gianthold. Maybe they like that the shroud needs to be farmed and they don't want to make it too easy to craft gs items. Fine. Instead of a 3:1 turn in set it at 8:1, heck 12:1, 16:1, 20:1, something. At least that guarantees that one way or another you will have some devil scales if you are willing to put in the time.

/signed

Certainly not the first time this idea has been floated. 3:1 should be a perfect ratio though.

[transtemporal]

/not signed

There are definitely weeks where I'm pulling lots of one thing and none of another but the law of averages seems to even it out.

[sirgog]

The key problem there is that the relevant devs do not understand how Shroud loot works.

In an audio interview 3-4 months ago, the devs said this: "All Shroud ingredients of a certain size drop at the same chance, therefore it's fine"

Obviously that is untrue: Shroud recipes use Scales and Stones at a much higher rate than they do the other ingredients. The demand on ingredients is not close to equal, so it is Scales or Stones that are the limiting factor to building items, and the rest is relatively almost free. (At the moment, I have 30+ of Arrows, Bones, Chains, and Shrap, 8 Stones, and 1 Scale)

This is correct.

The drop rates are all exactly equal (I suspect 8% for each in part 4 and 16% for each in part 5). But imbuing a shard requires an average of 2.67 large scales, as every possible choice of Material/Etheral and Dominion/Escalation/Opposition requires scales, and so do 4 of the 6 elements (fire/air/positive/earth/water/negative).

Stones require an average of about 2.33 if I remember correctly; bones require an average of about 1.

Changing the drop rate to Bones: 10% Scales: 22% Stones: 19% Others 15% each would solve this issue.

[NXPlasmid]

I just don't understand why Turbine doesn't just introduce a trade in mechanism like they did in gianthold. Maybe they like that the shroud needs to be farmed and they don't want to make it too easy to craft gs items. Fine. Instead of a 3:1 turn in set it at 8:1, heck 12:1, 16:1, 20:1, something. At least that guarantees that one way or another you will have some devil scales if you are willing to put in the time.

/signed

Some sort of trade in would be perfect, useful, and better than increasing the drop rate. the real problem with the equal drop rate and unequal recipe usage is the exact think people posted in this thread, doing 30 runs before you get enough scales and stones to craft. Even a 5 to 1 trade in would be ok with me.

[NXPlasmid]

/not signed

There are definitely weeks where I'm pulling lots of one thing and none of another but the law of averages seems to even it out.

The problem with your perspective is that causal gamers might go more than a year running the shroud and never get enough scales and stones to craft a second tier item or weapon. Or if they ran the shroud once a week it would still be almost 6 months if they were unlucky...

[transtemporal]

The problem with your perspective is that causal gamers might go more than a year running the shroud and never get enough scales and stones to craft a second tier item or weapon. Or if they ran the shroud once a week it would still be almost 6 months if they were unlucky...

Why is that a problem? The drop rate is the same for everyone. The fact is, if you do more shrouds, you get more ingredients.

Maybe the drop rate could be improved a smidgen... but personally, I wouldn't like to see the servers become so awash in greensteel that the casuals you mention are debating whether to use dual radiance, dual triple-pos or dual minii. That would be a game-breaking move.

[farbtonwolf]

Having done the shroud around 50 times I have made 1 double imbuede item and one weapon also double. The weapon took alot of work and in the end some guildies helped me out with getting scales. I have pulled only 3 large scales so far and it doesnt look like ill be pulling more anytime soon.
/signed

[mediocresurgeon]

I don't play very many characters (usually my THF Barbarian, Monster Mark II, and my sorcerer). I usually prefer running other quests to farming the Shroud.

I have 2 single shard and 1 double shard item on my cleric.
I have 2 single shard on my Sorceress.
I have 3 single shard and 2 double shard on my Barbarian.
I have 1 single shard on my Monster Mark II.

My barbarian has close to 60 runs.
My sorcerer has 25 runs.
My cleric and my Monster Mark II have less than 10 runs.

This means that for every 7.5 run of the Shroud, I make a Shard. Not bad for someone who doesn't run it very often.

If you don't have the time to run the Shroud (or don't care to, since it gets repetitive), go run quests with other named loot. The Cursed Crypt, Litany of the Dead, Gianthold Tor, and level 17+ quests (for +2 tomes) bring in a surprising amount of Larges when you trade them to other players.

Just run the quests you like to run, then trade the loot you get for things you need.

[transtemporal]

This means that for every 7.5 run of the Shroud, I make a Shard. Not bad for someone who doesn't run it very often.

Thats an interesting way of putting it. That means I'm making a tier 3 shard every 12.5 runs approx. And I still think thats a pretty decent ratio.

Are there any lucky bastards doing better than 7.5? :)

[Jacoby]

The problem with your perspective is that causal gamers might go more than a year running the shroud and never get enough scales and stones to craft a second tier item or weapon. Or if they ran the shroud once a week it would still be almost 6 months if they were unlucky...

Whoo Hoo! Someone made my point perfectly! but it is far worse than that. Casual gamers might, if they're lucky enough to be in a decent guild, get to a Shroud, let alone complete one. Be that as it may I just don't want to keep spending time in a the Shroud to get the items I desire. I have 3-4 hours at night to play. That leaves me farming during the week and really only playing on the weekends. It's kinda making the game mundane for me. This is not just the shroud but all the elite loot tables are grind fests of ridiculous proportions.

[Junts]

Thats an interesting way of putting it. That means I'm making a tier 3 shard every 12.5 runs approx. And I still think thats a pretty decent ratio.

Are there any lucky bastards doing better than 7.5? :)

paladin: 4x dual shard
sorc: 3x single shard
bard: 2x dual shard, 2x single shard
monk: 2x dual shard, 1x single shard

75 + 45 + 43 + 10 + 44 (my cleric who never got an item) = 217 runs

217 / 14 = 1 per 15 runs or so, but mostly dual shard, and 2 dual shards Im about to craft. larges used/run might be a be better gauge; I use 1.31 larges per run, vs an average pull of 1.5, and have ~80 larges in my bag.

Its just not that difficult.

[Jacoby]

Thats an interesting way of putting it. That means I'm making a tier 3 shard every 12.5 runs approx. And I still think thats a pretty decent ratio.

Are there any lucky bastards doing better than 7.5? :)

He's not pulling the ingredients to craft them, he's trading for them. Which leads to the simple deduction that he has a ton of time to play other things and trade/sell loot to obtain the items through other means.

I don't want to see the servers awash in greensteel either, I just don't want to spend the next year in the shroud to outfit 3 to 4 toons.

[Junts]

He's not pulling the ingredients to craft them, he's trading for them. Which leads to the simple deduction that he has a ton of time to play other things and trade/sell loot to obtain the items through other means.

I don't want to see the servers awash in greensteel either, I just don't want to spend the next year in the shroud to outfit 3 to 4 toons.


If you have limited time, running for tradables is actually a more efficient time/larges ratio in most cases.

[redoubt]

Whoo Hoo! Someone made my point perfectly! but it is far worse than that. Casual gamers might, if they're lucky enough to be in a decent guild, get to a Shroud, let alone complete one. Be that as it may I just don't want to keep spending time in a the Shroud to get the items I desire. I have 3-4 hours at night to play. That leaves me farming during the week and really only playing on the weekends. It's kinda making the game mundane for me. This is not just the shroud but all the elite loot tables are grind fests of ridiculous proportions.

I agree with A_D that the drop rate is not the issue as much as the use rate. I would support leveling the drop rate to better match the use rate.

And back to your statement here:

You play 3-4 hours a night. That is 3 shrouds a day and would keep 9 characters on timer. You would have dual shards items for at least 3 of them by the end of one month and likely have many more tier two items also made for them.

If you only ran one a day and spent the rest of the time running other stuff, you'd still produce at least one dual shard item a month and only be spending 25-33% of your time there.

Finally, 3-4 hours a night is hardly casual, so I'm a bit suprised that you're having trouble getting the items. Its not like the Titan where you go 100+ runs and still not get the item you are seeking. There are folks who've run that one every 3 days for a year and still been empty handed...

[Waukeen]

Relax,
they will be selling larges in the ddo store soon, case and point: they sell small ingredients, sold +2 tomes for a bit, basically what they are doing is undermining the few consumables that don't bind (i.e. our economy besides plat) to make real money and hand out undeserved rewards of all kinds up to and including access to greensteel, to anyone willing to shell out $.

[transtemporal]

217 / 14 = 1 per 15 runs or so, but mostly dual shard, and 2 dual shards Im about to craft. larges used/run might be a be better gauge; I use 1.31 larges per run, vs an average pull of 1.5, and have ~80 larges in my bag.

Its just not that difficult.

Completely agree. I ended up with 153 runs amongst all my guys and 12 shards worth of items all up.

Yay, I'm luckier than Junts. :D :p

[transtemporal]

You play 3-4 hours a night. That is 3 shrouds a day and would keep 9 characters on timer. You would have dual shards items for at least 3 of them by the end of one month and likely have many more tier two items also made for them.

While I agree, thats 3 completions a night, pug crews can't necessarily knock that out day-in day-out like guild/channel crews can. And those runs are fun which makes the process a whole lot more pleasant. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd do it if I was limited to pugging.

[sirgog]

Larges also drop in Amrath quests on elite, these should have a higher drop rate so that high level toons have more options than just monotonously farming Shroud over and over.

If the average Amrath elite quest dropped 0.5 larges per player, there'd be a bigger variety of viable endgame quests. More casual players would keep punching through Shroud Normal runs; more experienced players could do that too, or once they get bored of Shroud, they can go and run harder content for the same rewards.