Build help: Divine Warrior (help please)

[Gray_Bodhisattva]

Toying around with my build and I'd like some feedback on what could make a THF Cleric11/Fighter6/Paladin3 better in terms of feats,skills,saves,DPS, and survivability. Any and all help would be aprecciated even those taking out paladin, however Cleric9-11 must be involved thanks a bunch before hand!

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(6 Fighter / 3 Paladin / 11 Cleric)
Hit Points: 350
Spell Points: 750

BAB: 17/17/22/2727
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 13
Will: 17

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 14 23 26
Dexterity 13 16 16
Constitution 14 17 18
Intelligence 9 12 12
Wisdom 16 20 20
Charisma 8 12 12

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 3 12 12
Bluff -1 1 2
Concentration 4 12 12
Diplomacy -1 1 1
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 1 1
Heal 3 5 5
Hide 1 3 3
Intimidate -1 1 1
Jump 2 14 14
Listen 3 5 5
Move Silently 1 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 1 1
Search -1 1 1
Spot 3 5 5
Swim 2 8 8
Tumble n/a 7 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip

Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undeead
Spell (1): Bane
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Command
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Doom
Spell (1): Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (1): Shield of Faith
Spell (1): Summon Monster I

Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Spell (2): Aid
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Close Wounds
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Deific Vengance
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Find Traps
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (2): Inflict Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Lesser Restoration
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (2): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (2): Soundburst
Spell (2): Spawn Screen
Spell (2): Summon Monster II

Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (3): Bestow Curse
Spell (3): Blindness
Spell (3): Contagion
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Glyph of Warding
Spell (3): Inflict Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Mass Aid
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Searing Light
Spell (3): Summon Monster III
Spell (3): Water Breathing

Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Spell (4): Chaos Hammer
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Dismissal
Spell (4): Divine Power
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Holy Smite
Spell (4): Inflict Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Mass Shield of Faith
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Order's Wrath
Spell (4): Poison
Spell (4): \cf2 Recitation
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Summon Monster IV
Spell (4): Symbol of Flame
Spell (4): Unholy Blight

Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack

Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Flame Strike
Spell (5): Greater Command
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (5): Raise Dead
Spell (5): Slay Living
Spell (5): Spell Resistance
Spell (5): Stalwart Pact
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Spell (5): Symbol of Pain
Spell (5): True Seeing

Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil

Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands

Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity

Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)

Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Spell (6): Banishment
Spell (6): Blade Barrier
Spell (6): Cometfall
Spell (6): Create Undead
Spell (6): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Greater Glyph of Warding
Spell (6): Harm
Spell (6): Heal
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (6): Mass Bear's Endurance
Spell (6): Mass Bull's Strength
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Mass Eagle's Spendor
Spell (6): Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Mass Owl's Wisdom
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI
Spell (6): Symbol of Fear
Spell (6): Symbol of Persuasion
Spell (6): Undead to Death
Spell (6): Word of Recall

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Tumble (+1)

Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Tumble (+1)

Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Mobility I Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Light I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Light II

Also it would be nice to get some equipment advice, I'm planning on adamantine/mithral Full Plates/Breastplates and greatsword/falchion combos, no sword and board or TWF. once again any and all help would be appreciated especially from lovable vets :P Maybe changing the levels that I take cleric/fighter/paladin changes that would make level progression easier would be awesome. Also I know that I put all the enhancements in at once, any sifting them into good leveling order would be nice. And human is not changible. I'm a F2Per also. Once again any and all help is appreciated, thanks!

EDIT: if someone knows a good way to incorporate mobile spellcasting it would be nice if you think its a good thing to have. Really and advice, thoughts, or feasible changes would be a great help, especially endgame advice. I may decide to PvP eventually as well with this build.

[Gray_Bodhisattva]

I also thought about doing 11 cleric/9paladin but I'mnot sure how I would cope without the extra feats. I see people look at this post but noone replies. should I have posted it different?

[Zaodan]

This character will be a lousy fighter, and a lousy healer. It will be fine for PUGs are casual play, so if that's good for you, then play it. But, since you're asking about the quality of your build, I am *assuming* that such casual play isn't good enough for you (because if it was, then why bother getting a critique on a build, just build whatever you want and have fun).

So, assuming you want a real critique and are aiming for doing high-end raids on elite, then this build blows goats.

[hecate355]

thats how i would do it, paladin levels with 8 base cha will add no survivability at all imo. Cleric with 1 level of fighter can melee just as well as the build you posted. Also, this build i offer has basically no healing support, you can fix it by changing one of the feats to empower healing and get some potency items. Looking it over, id also dump smiting enhancements, if there is any better use, but oh well you get the base concept.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Cleric)
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 1402
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 7
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 12 12
Constitution 16 19
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 14 18
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 5
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 3 26
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal 4 23
Hide 1 1
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 7 11
Listen 2 4
Move Silently 1 1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 0 2
Spot 2 4
Swim 3 6
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Giant Dodger I
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Fighter Jump I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV

[foxx]

decide to either build a fighter that can heal, or a healer that heal.

[Renvar]

The biggest issue with the build is that you are not taking enough healing to really be effective in the uppper level quests. Say over level 12-13. You won't have enough mana or enough enhancements or feats in healing to be able to effectively help a party as a healer. Maybe as a backup healer, ala a bard, but if you want to buff, fight, and heal others, maybe a warchanter bard with some melee splash (1-2 levels) is a better choice.

If you are only interested in buffing and healing yourself as a self sufficient melee, a nearly pure paladin gives you as much as you would typically need and about as much as your build would have. You will get LOH, mana/spells, wand, and scroll usage. You should be fine.

When you typically see a caster splash, be it sorc, wiz, cleric, or FvS, you will normally only see 1-3 levels of the non-caster class being splashed. Anything more and the caster class becomes seriously challenged over level 15.

I would agree with previous repliers that the best options would be:

19/1 or 18/2 cleric mixed with fighter, paladin, or monk. There are a number of build examples for this type of melee/healer. You should probably start with one of those as a template and modify from there. The key question will be: How much healing support do you want to lend the party. The more you sacrifice your cleric healing capabilities for melee capabilities the less value your healing will have to the party. At some point (and I think your posted build passed this point) you will become a self-healing melee and that could generally be accomplished with less risk by going primarily paladin.

So, my advice, since you seemed to want to heal others, not just yourself, is to change to a 18/19 cleric(or FvS) with 1-2 levels of fighter. As noted in a previous post you will not lose much, if any melee capability when doing this. But when your BB's and destructions and comet falls are still rocking at level 15-20 and your heals are landing for 400-500 hp, non-crit, you will be a very pleased with your choice to keep the cleric levels.

[Renvar]

To further the discussion:

Note the BAB between your build and the 19/1 build posted. 15 to 17. And with Divine Power (level 4 cleric spell) you can get a BAB of 20 with either build.

So you will have the same BAB in either scenario. Granted, you get a lot of really cool Fighter feats that will help, but with the extra cleric levels you will have decidedly more high level spell options (Destruction, implosion) that will more than offset. Plus, the spell points are more than double. And that is a non-optimized build. He only gave you +1 tomes and you were using +3 and +4. And there's no loot in these builds.

You can easily reach 1600 sp with minimal (non-raid loot) effort.

As for feats, make sure to get Empower Healing. It's mandatory, really. And you mentioned casting in traffic. If you want to cast in traffic, you must maximize Concentration. Again, it's mandatory. Take it every level and get some items to help as well. Also, get the Quicken enhancement if you want to cast from the front line. No concentration check and you are back to bashing much more quickly. I am also a big fan of Maximize and Empower (to a lesser degree). If you drop trying to get the kensai line you will have more than enough feats to get these.

I am not a huge fan of Extend (by level 15 your base times are 15 minutes for most spells. You need more than that how often? You aren't giving out P Buffs, for crying out loud). Or Heighten, either, on this build. On a pure healing/casting build, absolutely. But if you want to really rock the DC you will not take a fighter level and will max your wisdom.

Don't mess with mental toughness or improved mental toughness if you don't have room. Mana pots are available at end game and you can scroll your most important spells when you run out of mana. They just don't give that much benefit. Maybe 95 sp at cap. They are nice, but not if you have to give up Emp. Healing, Maximize, or Quicken, in my book.

Besides concentration, diplo, jump and balance are good feats to take points in. I saw you spending points needlessly in tumble and heal and such. You are not going to get much benefit out of these at all. Diplo can be helpful in quest dialogues at times and also for dropping agro if you need to start healing a lot.

As far as enhancements, the prayer of life/inc. life, life magic are all necessary to max. The smiting line is less, unless you are an offensive caster. I'd save those for other options. Obviously, keep your toughness and mana enhancements maxed and any stat point increases to wis and str.

As far as stats, I liked your distribution better than the Hecate355 post. I'd go with 16 str, 10-12 dex, 14 con, 8 -10 int, 16 wis, 8 cha. I'd not give up the 2 points of wis for the 2 points of constitution. But his was a dwarf, so it costs differently.

[Gray_Bodhisattva]

Thanks for all the input guys, I've revised my build a bit but am on another persons computer so I'll just tell you the basics of what I've changed. I'm sorry if I was a bit unclear about what I wanted my role to be. I'm not the healbot type really, I don't play video games to watch blue and red bars go down lol. I took cleric 11 for blade barrier, Harm, and create undead. I took 3 paladin levels for the AC/Saves aura bonuses, Fighter for feats. I'm trying to create a fun to play character whose role is front line utility fighter, as in, he can stand on the front line to help out the tank. but also caster snipe with really nothing to worry about, and the healer not having to get ****ed off, because of my play style, I usually drop to the bottom of heal priority list because they figure I'm going to die anyways lol.

I've broken it down into sections of things I think that I NEED to have to have fun playing any given character, and these are:

Stunning ability
No movement penalties to hit (eg. spring attack)
above 300 hp (toughness)
Self Healing
Casting on the run (ie mobile spellcasting/quicken spell)
A big sword (inorite? but this means THF ITHF GTHF)
Either have enough hp to get hit all the time and survive, or enough AC to not get hit all the time.
In the event I run out of SP I can melee effectively and still survive without healing concentration
Survivability, even the most fun build in the world gets old after a while of dying before everyone else
DPS, not extremely high melee DPS, just more than the average spellcaster.
NUKE, Nuking spells or damaging effects (Harm, Blade Barrier)
No arcane spells (I hate arcane failure, with a passion)
Saves over +10 on will/reflex +20 on fortitude
PVP solo feasibility (fun factor)
Spell Resistance and Damage reduction (either innate or from items, but preferrably innate that could stack with items)

These requirements yielded the OP build. But I have since modified it with less combat feats, healing others isn't really a big concern for me, as my ADHD will not allow me to watch the red/blue bars for very long. I'm focusing more on an offensive Divine Hybrid build that follows the guidelines above, yet doesn't become completely useless at end game. I've since changed the build keeping the same levels, however reorganizing feats and enhancements to yield more focused potential. Thank you all for your advice and guidance, please comment on what you think about this and provide any alternatives to what I have already!!

EDIT: I also only play humans, because I get tired of looking at other peoples crotches in first person view (why first person view? adds to the fun factor, lol)

EDIT2: mostly a melee offensive caster, I wouldn't play anywhere but the front line or past it :)