SP Difference between a Wiz and a Sorc at end-game

[AvanTheThird]

Hi, I'm thinking about rolling a WF Wizard and would just like to know how huge is the difference between both classes when it comes to SP assuming same gear and enhancements. Thank you in advance for any replies. (Wiz will have MT, IMT and the whole EotS line. Assumption on Sorc will be no MT, IMT and EotD)

[Visty]

around 800-1000 difference

[AvanTheThird]

Ah, thank you for the information Visty.

[ddoer]

around 800-1000 difference

let's break down the sp difference:

525 Level 20 class difference. see reference (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=191793).
200 Archmagic
150 Elemental Spell Power and Greater Elemental Spell Power

and consider wiz could have spare feat to take Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness that reduce the gap by 210. The difference is 665.

is there anything missing?

ability point modifier is omitted. and wiz should get 20-30 more i suppose.

[bobbryan2]

At end game... there's almost no sp difference. Because both live in a world where they can regen sp fairly easily.

[Visty]

let's break down the sp difference:

525 Level 20 class difference. see reference (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=191793).
200 Archmagic
150 Elemental Spell Power and Greater Elemental Spell Power

and consider wiz could have spare feat to take Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness that reduce the gap by 210. The difference is 665.

is there anything missing?

ability point modifier is omitted. and wiz should get 20-30 more i suppose.

525+200+150=875
sorc dont have mental toughness and improved mental toughness, so add another 210, makes it over 1000 difference

[Samiusbot]

But you need to look at spell cost to remove a mob. And how many times each class needs to cast the spell you like with the meta magic you like. With Master of Magic and Power Surge they are 2 different animals. That follow a similar path.

I use sniper vs machine gun as examples but they both get the job done!

[ddoer]

the OP suggested an assumption of "Wiz will have MT, IMT and the whole EotS line." it's ok for MT and IMT, but i doubt if it is fair for Wiz to count EotS. It's 110 points of difference.


At end game... there's almost no sp difference. Because both live in a world where they can regen sp fairly easily.

i would have given you -1 if i can.

sp regen is situational. say when you are a full party, do you expect the other 5 ppl wait for you to turtle up and regen?



525+200+150=875
sorc dont have mental toughness and improved mental toughness, so add another 210, makes it over 1000 difference

do you spot anything wrong with this calculation?

[Visty]

do you spot anything wrong with this calculation?

youre right, that just came to my mind^^
but as i see youve qutoed that already

[bobbryan2]

i would have given you -1 if i can.

sp regen is situational. say when you are a full party, do you expect the other 5 ppl wait for you to turtle up and regen?


No... I expect that you wouldn't need to regen sp if you had 5 other people in the party.

[ddoer]

youre right, that just came to my mind^^
but as i see youve qutoed that already

in fact, I have given you almost an hour to correct it! ;)

[AvanTheThird]

Thank you for all the further information. (and thank you Visty for the reference to the SP table) Since the difference is only about 600+ SP, I guess I will go with the Wiz as I really like their versatility with spell selection and also a working capstone.

[FluffyCalico]

About 50% more for the sorc -MT feats from the wiz. So about 900-1000 sp.

[ddoer]

One more point to consider is the Mysterious Bauble that will you around 105-600 sp, equally for sorc and wiz.


About 50% more for the sorc -MT feats from the wiz. So about 900-1000 sp.

i think we generally agree most sorc will not take MT and IMT. so it is not a apple-to-apple comparison but is a valid comparison. indeed, I think wiz may not really need the MT/IMT and it is better to double focus on one more school.

[Jacoby]

SP doesn't really matter. The guy who said it's a machine gun vs. a sniper had it correct.

The way mobs spawn right on top of you now HP and casting speed seem to be more important. I have played both to end game and I'd have to say my Sorc was way more enjoyable once I got to level 9. The trek there is an arduous one though and playing a Sorc. correctly is a artform of mathem and destruction.

[Samiusbot]

SP doesn't really matter. The guy who said it's a machine gun vs. a sniper had it correct.

The way mobs spawn right on top of you now HP and casting speed seem to be more important. I have played both to end game and I'd have to say my Sorc was way more enjoyable once I got to level 9. The trek there is an arduous one though and playing a Sorc. correctly is a artform of mathem and destruction.

I know i was right but i would rather have the right tool for the job.
That is why i use the wizard.
But that why i use that analogy, everyone enjoys different things.

[AvanTheThird]

Referring to Jacoby's mention about casting speed, does this mean that Quicken is a must for a Wiz?

(And could someone teach me how to quote? Thanks)

[ddoer]

Referring to Jacoby's mention about casting speed, does this mean that Quicken is a must for a Wiz?


imho, in general, the different in casting speed means wiz should do different things, e.g. instead of just run to a crowd and cast in the center, a wiz has to setup kill zone, CC zone ahead of the fight. i think wiz should not try to catch up the speed of sorc, but to utilize it's own strength like higher DC (via spell focus and higher ability modifier) and do the sniper job

in some extreme scenario, such as ToD part 2, according to Henrieta (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2461998#post2461998), you should need quicken to perform kiting duty.

[Tyrande]

At end game... there's almost no sp difference. Because both live in a world where they can regen sp fairly easily.

They cannot recall out for SP for raids. Also, they will need the XP if not capped.

[Visty]

They cannot recall out for SP for raids. Also, they will need the XP if not capped.

i doubt he talks about rcing out

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Thank you for all the further information. (and thank you Visty for the reference to the SP table) Since the difference is only about 600+ SP, I guess I will go with the Wiz as I really like their versatility with spell selection and also a working capstone.

A larger reason to go Sorc than the SP is the faster casting speed. A Sorc pretty much never needs quicken, its situationally required for a Wiz. While Wiz's have feats to burn, that does mean that the SP difference is bigger than it looks at first glance because of the cost of quicken. Plus, the faster cast time lets you do a lot more damage more quickly in either instadeath or nuking modes.

I enjoy playing both my Wiz and my Sorc, but I have to say my Sorc is more "fun" in most quests.

[irivan]

Look, once you get to post 2000 Spell Points, it is a completely mute point, i would even say post 1800, there are so many shrines in game that you will generally have about 100-400 sp left between rest to buff the party.

Sorcs are feeling more an d more useless all the time as their sp advantage shrinks.

And Lorien, one additional spell cast in every 10 hardly amounts to a speed casting advantage. And to make matters worse, the cool down timer for both wizard and sorc are the same.

Presently my Wizard sits at over 2300 SP, I also have the bauble, the spell storing ring, and the archivist necklace. All of these items enable me to have aprox 2700-2800 sp between shrines. I think the SP thing is a thing of the past.

The difference in time is exactly 0.3 seconds.

Wizards are more useful to the party as a whole, and can do everything the sorc can, but with higher DC's and will never have to wait to swap out spells, and will have access to every spell in the game throughout the dungeon experience.

Having higher dc's means that a monster will fail his save to damage spells like DB fireball and meteor swarm more often, meaning the spell does no t need to be cast as much that saves even more sp, choose wizard, in the end you will be happy you did, in the beginning until level 12 it will be rough going so beware.

good luck