Target: Level 16 Barb/Bard

[XCodes]

In order to get my initial favor rewards and establish myself in this game, I'm looking to build a party-friendly character that can itself contribute well to a fight. The answer came to me pretty clearly.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Berrengar
Level 16 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Barbarian \ 14 Bard)
Hit Points: 192
Spell Points: 513
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 8
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 18
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 22

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance -1 10
Bluff 3 6
Concentration 6 23
Diplomacy 3 6
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 7 22
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 3 6
Jump 7 26
Listen 3 18
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 7 25
Repair 0 0
Search 0 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 7
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 7 25

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III




Not planning on going all the way to level 20 since I figure there will eventually be some pure Bard Warchanters that would out-music me and some dedicated melee DPS builds that would out-damage me, leaving me a sub-par party member in pretty much any given party composition.

Anyway, any glaring omissions? Any improvements to be made?

[BoBoDaClown]

Drop FOP and pick up extend (unless I missed it in my quick read through).

I think I missed seeing toughness there - if so, pick that up.

Be nice to be a half decent healer - pick up empower healing (early levels - can swap to maximise later levels) - though if oyu don't want to ehal, don't bother.

If you don't plan on CC, drop your charisma - your CC will obviously be medicre. If you do that, you will end up with a viable end game build be nice to have one once you have leveled all that way).

Realise that rages and spells don't mix.

Maybe 14/1/1 Bard Fighter Barb - giving you a feat to pick up healing.
or 14/2 Fighter.

Meaning you could go for a 18/1/1 or 18/2 split.

Have fun!

[XCodes]

Drop FOP and pick up extend (unless I missed it in my quick read through).Forgot Extend. I'll drop either Improved Crit or GTHF for it. I like FoP, it makes my Will saves really not suck (+15 at level 5). Between Improved Crit and GTHF, which is inferior?


I think I missed seeing toughness there - if so, pick that up.

Be nice to be a half decent healer - pick up empower healing (early levels - can swap to maximise later levels) - though if oyu don't want to ehal, don't bother.
I don't like toughness, although I may swap a feat out later on if I find that I need it. As for healing, I'm not going to bother. As you said, Rage and Spells don't mix so I'll just use a few cure spells for soloing and between fights, the rest will be pre-buffing and utility.


If you don't plan on CC, drop your charisma - your CC will obviously be medicre. If you do that, you will end up with a viable end game build be nice to have one once you have leveled all that way).
Kinda do, kinda don't. Mass Suggestion and Fascinate is about it. Probably not a bad idea to drop it 2 points given it's minimal impact there, but I don't think it warrants a reroll at this point in time. If something serious pops out at me and I have to reroll, I'll make sure to drop it to 14 then.


Maybe 14/1/1 Bard Fighter Barb - giving you a feat to pick up healing.
or 14/2 Fighter.

Meaning you could go for a 18/1/1 or 18/2 split.

Have fun!
Barb 2 gives me another Rage per day. Barb 6 can give me FB, but in terms of damage output I wouldn't be as good as a dedicated DPS character and I wouldn't be as good of a buffer as a Bard 20 Warchanter. At 16 I can have some fun and do some different quests in case I ever get bored of the level 20 material.

[dormetheus]

This build needs toughness. I have a very similar build (bardbarians are becoming all the rage!). Get it? awhh.

Drop your Cha to 14 max. Bump up Str or Con.

Between IC and GTHF, Min 2's already come with Keen, so keep that in mind.

[Waffle_Stomper]

If you're doing it just for rage, why not just go with fighter and take rage as one of your Bard spells?

EDIT: I have toughness on my Warchanter (currently Bard 7/Rogue 2/Fighter2) and it went a long way to helping with my survivability. I think you should definitely consider taking it.

[XCodes]

If you're doing it just for rage, why not just go with fighter and take rage as one of your Bard spells?
Not doing it just for rage. Barb 1 was for the Sprint Boost and Martial proficiency, Barb 2 was for all the cool enhancements Barbs get at level 2. Uncanny Dodge is helping a bit at low levels, too, given my currently lousy Reflex saves. Way better than everything Bards got at level 15 (or 19, for that matter).

[Waffle_Stomper]

Not doing it just for rage. Barb 1 was for the Sprint Boost and Martial proficiency, Barb 2 was for all the cool enhancements Barbs get at level 2. Uncanny Dodge is helping a bit at low levels, too, given my currently lousy Reflex saves. Way better than everything Bards got at level 15 (or 19, for that matter).

Inspire Heroics is nice and a Bard gets that at 15.

[Thelmallen]

Forgot Extend. I'll drop either Improved Crit or GTHF for it. I like FoP, it makes my Will saves really not suck (+15 at level 5). Between Improved Crit and GTHF, which is inferior?

GTWF leads to more DPS than IC:slash, even for the high crit weapons like scimitars, rapiers, kukri, etc. As someone pointed out, mineral II gives you a keen effect as well so that might be a way to go.

I don't like toughness, although I may swap a feat out later on if I find that I need it. As for healing, I'm not going to bother. As you said, Rage and Spells don't mix so I'll just use a few cure spells for soloing and between fights, the rest will be pre-buffing and utility.

unfortunately you will need toughness. without that feat you lose 30hp for human enhancements, 10 hp if you take a fighter level and the 20hp that you get from the feat itself. so a 50 to 60 hp drop, which is significant



See replies in red

[RTN]

If you go barb, remember that you can't caste while barb raging. If you plan on doing some casting during combat (heals, for example), going Fighter might be better. You'll also pick up the additional feats. Rage yourself using the spell, since that has fewer drawbacks and w/ only Barb2, you won't have all the rage enhancements anyway.

[XCodes]

If you go barb, remember that you can't caste while barb raging. If you plan on doing some casting during combat (heals, for example), going Fighter might be better. You'll also pick up the additional feats. Rage yourself using the spell, since that has fewer drawbacks and w/ only Barb2, you won't have all the rage enhancements anyway.
Again, Barbarian was for Sprint Boost which is very handy. Not really casting during combat, mostly before and between fights (so DC needs to be good, but not spectacular) as well as lots of pre-buffing.

Mineral II is pretty impressive, so I'll definitely use that for my weapon. With that I can get Toughness. Extend Spell... Looks like I have to drop GTHF for that. Any way to compensate for losing either Extend Spell or GTHF? Any metamagic rods in DDO?

[Freeman]

Again, Barbarian was for Sprint Boost which is very handy. Not really casting during combat, mostly before and between fights (so DC needs to be good, but not spectacular) as well as lots of pre-buffing.

Mineral II is pretty impressive, so I'll definitely use that for my weapon. With that I can get Toughness. Extend Spell... Looks like I have to drop GTHF for that. Any way to compensate for losing either Extend Spell or GTHF? Any metamagic rods in DDO?

Why do you want Sprint Boost? I can think of maybe one or two places where it would be useful. It just doesn't really seem like you are getting much benefit out of the barbarian levels. You'll get, what, 2-3 minutes of low-level barbarian rage per rest? I'm also not sure why you are concerned about DC either.

I noticed you had a 10 Intelligence. I'd drop that to an 8 and put the points in either Wisdom or Dex. You can live without those skill points easily.(Drop Listen) As for feats, your best solution to fitting in GTHF would be to either drop Force of Personality in favor of it or take fighter levels in stead of barb levels. Those bonus feats are nice, and you get some nice Fighter enhancements as well. As for Force of Personality, while it can be nice at lower levels, I generally haven't found it that useful at higher levels. Command is about the most annoying spell, and even without FoP, I usually save fairly quickly against it, thanks to the high base Will save bards already enjoy.

Oh, and nope, no Metamagic rods in DDO. Those were nice to have in PnP.

[XCodes]

Alright, it looks like trading it all for Fighter instead is the thing to do. The list of little things is building up.

Are Will saves really not that important? Aside from Hold Person and Command there's also various Fear spells and more I imagine.

[BoBoDaClown]

It is just that bards naturally have decent will saves.

[Freeman]

Freedom of Movement will make you immune to Hold spells. Greater Heroism will make you immune to fear, although that part doesn't actually work in Shavarath.(You can substitute items as well) A pure fighter gets a base Will save of +6 at level 20. A bard gets a +12. No matter what you do, your Will save will be higher than a lot of melee characters.

[Alavatar]

If you are really going to reroll (what you have is good enough, people are just tweaking your build) ... might I suggest a Warforged Bard (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204254) with TWF?

[XCodes]

If you are really going to reroll (what you have is good enough, people are just tweaking your build) ... might I suggest a Warforged Bard (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204254) with TWF?
No, you may not. =P

Not a huge fan of TWF in DDO. I mean, if you're going Rogue then there's not much else to use the feats for, but if not then... Yeah.

Also, I guess that the big reason to have high Will saves in PnP is for the Charm/Suggestion/Domination lines of spells which can really screw a party over. Since NPCs just don't cast those in DDO...

[Alavatar]

No, you may not. =P

Not a huge fan of TWF in DDO. I mean, if you're going Rogue then there's not much else to use the feats for, but if not then... Yeah.

Also, I guess that the big reason to have high Will saves in PnP is for the Charm/Suggestion/Domination lines of spells which can really screw a party over. Since NPCs just don't cast those in DDO...

Well, TWF benefits bards more than THF due to the bonus to damage the songs give. Essentially, you are doubling your damage benefit if you are using two weapons as opposed to one. :) But, if you want to wield great weapons just to be different or you don't care about the math behind the game that's your thing. :D Nothing wrong with that.

Edit: And just a point of information, THF + iTHF + gTHF = same number of feats as TWF + iTWF + gTWF.