Wiz / Rougue build critique plz

[WaltzInBlack]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.05
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

RV
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard)
Hit Points: 146
Spell Points: 1331
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 10
Will: 11

Starting Ending
Base Stats Base Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 11
Dexterity 12 13
Constitution 12 13
Intelligence 20 26
Wisdom 10 11
Charisma 10 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 5 5 5
Bluff 4 4 4
Concentration 1 1 1
Diplomacy 1 1 1
Disable Device 9 30 30
Haggle 4 4 4
Heal 0 0 0
Hide 5 5 5
Intimidate 0 0 0
Jump 4 4 4
Listen 4 4 6
Move Silently 5 5 5
Open Lock 5 17.5 17.5
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 5 8 8
Search 9 31 33
Spot 4 21 23
Swim 2 2 2
Tumble 2 2 2
Use Magic Device 4 23 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Open Lock (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+10)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

[Aerendil]

Looks good.

Only two things I'd nitpick on would be:
- lower INT to 18 starting, and up Con to 14+ if you can. +/- 1 DC shouldn't make or break you. You'd be in the same boat as the other 18 starting INT races. But this one's a personal preference, really.

- looks like you missed your level 15 feat.

Otherwise, the feat choices look good; level spacing for Rogue looks idea; etc, etc.
I'm sure someone will pipe up with "why not Warforged?" :)

[Phidius]

Int: I'd keep that at 20 - the biggest advantage of going Drow is that you can start with a 20 Int... if you're going to start with an 18 Int, you'd be better to go with human.
Dex: I'd start that at 10, and put the 2 points into something else. You aren't focusing on AC, Sneaking Skills, or Weapon Finesse, so those 2 build points aren't being used.
Cha: I'd suggest putting those 2 Dex points into Charsma for your UMD... every point can make a difference when you are approaching a UMD of 40 :)

Skills: Perhaps putting 4 points into Diplomacy instead of Bluff. I know you aren't going to be keeping it up, but my impression is that Bluff isn't useful in combat unless you have backstabbing on your side.

Feats: Wizard 18 gives you 4 free Metamagic feats (like Maximize and Quicken)... use those bonus feats at level 2, 7, 12, and 17 to get your Metamagic feats, rather than spending the valuable "anything" feats on them.



Looks good.

Only two things I'd nitpick on would be:
- lower INT to 18 starting, and up Con to 14+ if you can. +/- 1 DC shouldn't make or break you. You'd be in the same boat as the other 18 starting INT races. But this one's a personal preference, really.

- looks like you missed your level 15 feat.

Otherwise, the feat choices look good; level spacing for Rogue looks idea; etc, etc.
I'm sure someone will pipe up with "why not Warforged?" :)

Why wouldn't you go Warforged if you're willing to start with an 18 Int?

[tazlok]

can someone post a list of enhancements to take for a build like this please?

[fugazi70]

Why does this build need open lock when wizzie gets knock?
I was looking at making this character but had a question about this....

[Zorminster]

Why does this build need open lock when wizzie gets knock?
I was looking at making this character but had a question about this....

Knock is like having a rogue who never bought gear to boost his skills and only put ranks in it... except he's 3 levels lower than he should be. There are lots of areas where an appropriate level caster simply cannot knock the same things a rogue can pick.

edit: my critique, though i'm certainly not an expert, would be to nix the dex in favor of more con. The dex is only giving you +1 on your open lock-- disable and search are int, spot is wis -- and open lock is easily the skill that can be allowed to trail a bit behind the rest. Also- any build that throws +1 tomes @ 20 seems ill conceived to me. You'll certainly have better tomes by then, and you'll be missing out on the early benefits of said tomes. For instance: if you eat that int tome @ 3, you will end up with an additional skill point on every level beyond 4- this equates to 16 more skill points. If you dont have one then, but manage to acquire one by 12, you can still get an additional 8. Also, the points invested to bring your strength above 8 would be better spent elsewhere IMO.

In fact, I don't see a reason for any tome other than your int tome... all your others put you at an odd number base which yields no benefit to you. I can assume you'll be grabbing +6 items as opposed to +5s, so you'll remain on an odd value for your stat-- this gains you absolutely nothing. Int is the only one that you've made even through use of your tomes. You didn't list your enhancements but even if you were taking elven dex 1 and 2 (i wouldn't with this build) you'll be putting your dex on an odd value.

Also, you will likely be displeased waiting so long on your second level of rogue. I chose to wait till i had firewall to take my level of rogue and i think i regret it. Honestly, I didn't have enough mana to be able to use firewall much [mana spent on buff and web for the most part with lots of charms as well] and would have been FARRRRR better served by having evasion earlier.

[Nevthial]

I'm not seeing Insightful Reflexes feat listed, or am I just missing it?
CON is more important than DEX , so I'd raise it and lower the other to start.
True Neutral is a better alignment choice than Lawful Good for a character of this type due to the amount of damage you will avoid from enemy spells and attacks.
Other than that , if you decide to go with only an 18 INT, go warforged as Phidius suggested.


Edit: Eat any Tome you get your hands on. Wear any item(s) that will boost your hit points. Ignore the Bluff skill completely.

[Mellifera]

Drop DEX and put those points into CON. I have a similar lowbie build and while I really love her she's still almost painfully squishy with a CON of 14. But I took Insightful Reflexes at 1 not Toughness.

Try to only take your metamagics as your Bonus Feats. That leaves you room for a Greater Spell Pen, Spell Focus/GSF Enchantment and/or Conjuration if your aiming for CC, IMT or Insightful Reflexes (which IMO is a must have). For example at 6 I'd take Extend as my bonus feat and save Empower for later. At that level you wont have the SP to justify casting a Maximized Empowered anything unless youre running something shrine heavy.

[watmo2009]

I'm not seeing Insightful Reflexes feat listed, or am I just missing it?
CON is more important than DEX , so I'd raise it and lower the other to start.
True Neutral is a better alignment choice than Lawful Good for a character of this type due to the amount of damage you will avoid from enemy spells and attacks.
Other than that , if you decide to go with only an 18 INT, go warforged as Phidius suggested.


Edit: Eat any Tome you get your hands on. Wear any item(s) that will boost your hit points. Ignore the Bluff skill completely.

If you put 20 into int you eat up a ton of points at creation. I am still new to rolling a mage but to me it seemed that by gonig 18 you could then raise your dex and con more at creation. Later you could take Int for your skill ups, use enchancements and perhaps get a tomes.

It seems you have to trade off having more points overall (by only going 18) or having a couple higher int but lower dex and con or cha (if you use UMD) and less points overall. The reason i like the drow is because I can have a more balanced character and yet still have good (18) int. Well that reason and the fact taht I have not yet purchased the WF or unlocked 32 point.

Am I way off on this? Is that one or two points of INT really worth it, especially for a 18w/2R toon?

[Nevthial]

Am I way off on this? Is that one or two points of INT really worth it, especially for a 18w/2R toon?

If you're going Drow, the ability to have a 20 INT outweighs anything else if you are going to use spells with saving throws. DEX is unimportant , as you will eventually have stoneskin and you will get hit in battle anyway after the lower levels unless you can boost your AC up into the extreme. For a Drow to be highly effective, maximize your INT , have a touch of CHA , and a relatively decent CON score. You only need enough STR to carry things and and not get enfeebled in one shot. By not maximizing your INT when making a Drow, you're actually better off going with a human if you don't like warforged.