Angelic Assassin

[Kistilan]

Hi-

I'm not sure if anyone has built this yet, but it's something I'm probably going to create as a character. I'm fairly certain I'll use Drow, although Human for the extra feat could enable a mobility-based version (dodge, mobility, spring attack) and an improved critical: slashing swop. Some of the attributes would shift as well (and increase dex to 13 base via +2 dex tome at level 7 or beyond).

Anyway, here's the build without any greensteel or regular attribute enhancements -- just likely tomes that could be acquired. The +2 Int Tome (unbound) is the only tricky one to get these days. The idea is high-strike capability, skills & assassination. The Strength would be the next focus besides intelligence (+6 Str Item, +6 Greensteel, rage, etc) to ensure hits. Charisma +6 item +6 Greensteel would be a huge boon for the additional +6 to all saves. Intelligence +6 item +6 Greensteel is the is what would be desired for assination +6 to DC. A +4 Int Tome (if found) for an additional +1 to assassination.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Angelic Assassin
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(2 Paladin \ 18 Rogue)
Hit Points: 240
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 24
Will: 17
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 18
Dexterity 10 16
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 18 24
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 20
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 25
Bluff 3 30
Concentration 1 2
Diplomacy 3 22
Disable Device 9 29
Haggle 7 27
Heal -1 0
Hide 4 33
Intimidate 3 5
Jump 6 25
Listen 3 23
Move Silently 4 33
Open Lock 4 25
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 5 7
Search 9 31
Spot 3 23
Swim 2 4
Tumble 4 25
Use Magic Device 7 28

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I

Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I

Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II

Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II

Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II

Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II

Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II

Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III

Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Feat: (Selected) Sap
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV

Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I

Level 19 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

[Tallyn]

Few things strike me as inconsistent with your build. Having a good INT is fine, but being an INT Based rogue may prove to be more difficult in the long run than it's worth. You also take Combat Expertise, but with your starting Dex of 10, it's going to be difficult to hit a decent AC, even if you're using a shield. At level 20 your Assassinate DC will be around 38. Very good, but possibly a bit overkill. I REALLY would suggest you not put your level ups here and consider going TWF and putting your level ups into Dex. Possibly starting stats something more like:

Str 14
Dex 17 (Put level ups here)
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 16

Get rid of Insightful Reflexes, Feats are important, and consider ditching Force of Personality as well. With Paladin and resist item and perhaps a Wisdom item you should be able to get a good enough Will save. Having high dex and weapon finesse allows you to go offense (to hit) and defense in the same stat and then combat expertise may make a bigger difference later on. Dex is important for the fact that Two Weapon Fighting seems to be the pathway to superior Rogue DPS. Make sure you take the threat reduction talent, that should go a long way.

[Kistilan]

Few things strike me as inconsistent with your build. Having a good INT is fine, but being an INT Based rogue may prove to be more difficult in the long run than it's worth. You also take Combat Expertise, but with your starting Dex of 10, it's going to be difficult to hit a decent AC, even if you're using a shield. At level 20 your Assassinate DC will be around 38. Very good, but possibly a bit overkill. I REALLY would suggest you not put your level ups here and consider going TWF and putting your level ups into Dex. Possibly starting stats something more like:

Str 14
Dex 17 (Put level ups here)
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 16

Get rid of Insightful Reflexes, Feats are important, and consider ditching Force of Personality as well. With Paladin and resist item and perhaps a Wisdom item you should be able to get a good enough Will save. Having high dex and weapon finesse allows you to go offense (to hit) and defense in the same stat and then combat expertise may make a bigger difference later on. Dex is important for the fact that Two Weapon Fighting seems to be the pathway to superior Rogue DPS. Make sure you take the threat reduction talent, that should go a long way.

All things worth considering if I was going to make that build. This isn't a DPS rogue. It's a min-max assassin.

I think some of the Enhancemets need refining (I didn't want to redo them) but this rogue is based on back-stabbing with a shortsword currently (or dagger or rapier). If I were to ditch Combat Expertise, I would want Precision if it can be used while sneaking (will have to check my tactics fighter if that is possible -- can't remember off the top of my head). Sap, Improved Feint, etc could all be dropped along with Combat Expertise to gain Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack to be more mobile -- but that's more of a harrier fighting style with a higher ac (as you stated, it will be lower on this one about 38 ac prior to buffs & items).

The Sap and Improved Feint + High Diplomacy are ways to mitigate agro and re-stealth.

[Tallyn]

Removed

[Tallyn]

All things worth considering if I was going to make that build. This isn't a DPS rogue. It's a min-max assassin.

I think some of the Enhancemets need refining (I didn't want to redo them) but this rogue is based on back-stabbing with a shortsword currently (or dagger or rapier). If I were to ditch Combat Expertise, I would want Precision if it can be used while sneaking (will have to check my tactics fighter if that is possible -- can't remember off the top of my head). Sap, Improved Feint, etc could all be dropped along with Combat Expertise to gain Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack to be more mobile -- but that's more of a harrier fighting style with a higher ac (as you stated, it will be lower on this one about 38 ac prior to buffs & items).

The Sap and Improved Feint + High Diplomacy are ways to mitigate agro and re-stealth.

Are you planning on playing this rogue in groups, or solo? The time you take to do the things that you are going to do... well, the rest of your party will have everything else dead by then pretty much. I just don't see this build being terribly viable in most groups. I will say this COULD be fun as a solo hunter-killer type.

[Kistilan]

Are you planning on playing this rogue in groups, or solo? The time you take to do the things that you are going to do... well, the rest of your party will have everything else dead by then pretty much. I just don't see this build being terribly viable in most groups. I will say this COULD be fun as a solo hunter-killer type.

Well, having played for four years, yeah I thought a different flavor of rogue was in order. It's built for solo-kills. I want to rearrange the stealth movement so the rogue can move quicker if in party and reach a mob that has not been attacked to 1-hit wonder it.

I've plenty of the DPS & Tactics type rogues -- this was something new (built specifically to survive and assassinate). Notice things like Jump & Balance for manuevering are maxed -- in tight pinches to perch up somewhere and reevaluate the game plan.

I'd welcome suggestions that don't change the build to a pure DPS machine (already know how to do that! *L*) Also, equipment suggestions for a solo or swops for things like CE (not required) or SAP or Improved Feint. I'm sticking by Insightful Reflexes & Force of Personality to achieve higher Charisma (Diplomacy, Bluff, Imp Feint*, Divine Grace, UMD, Haggle, FoP*) and higher Int (Assination, Search, DD, Skill Points, Insightful Reflexes*). Strength-Based due to non-tank & non-finesse + sap'd dex and no armor agility enhancements -- planning on black/white dragon hide armor or dragontouched or kundarak delving suit or demon's scalemail. Paladin grants shield use -- should hit about a 40-50 ac without buffs at end game.

[Lewcipher]

Just wondering about the CE myself. Why? You won't have the AC to even bother.

[Kistilan]

Just wondering about the CE myself. Why? You won't have the AC to even bother.

Yeah. I waas musing this.

Suggestions for replacement?

[Lewcipher]

Heck man, Iron will would be better, but I've had a few beers and could do more looking into it tomorrow. LOL sorry, that one just stood out at me. Even another toughness feat for a few more hps?

[Kistilan]

Heck man, Iron will would be better, but I've had a few beers and could do more looking into it tomorrow. LOL sorry, that one just stood out at me. Even another toughness feat for a few more hps?

About another Toughness: The HPs, although possibly worth it, I realized are negligible. My DPS/tankish (65+ ac) rogues do most quests even on elite fine with about 180hps -- this guy has 240 due to a higher-than-norm con for my starting rogues made possible by dump'n wisdom.

Iron Will, could be -- hoping something more useful that that. Could get that Heroic one for +1 to all saves even. Stunning Blow probably wouldn't be affective with this guy -- maybe the bleeding wound attack -- never used it before.

[captain1z]

My rogue is very similiar to this and hes 17th level currently.

drow
2 pali/15 rogue
assassin w/ high charisma


I didnt take insightful reflexes but I did take force of personality.

[Kistilan]

My rogue is very similiar to this and hes 17th level currently.

drow
2 pali/15 rogue
assassin w/ high charisma


I didnt take insightful reflexes but I did take force of personality.

How's it playing? I just stumbled across this idea today while reading other threads and went to town with the Character Planner. What's yer gear too?

[captain1z]

How's it playing? I just stumbled across this idea today while reading other threads and went to town with the Character Planner. What's yer gear too?

hes just awesome to play........ best rogue I have ever had. I gush over him, he tanks the reaver and melees other raid bosses. I tank with a shield and 2weapon in low risk scenarios. Fights at 16 str normally base 10 with +1 tome = 11 then I have a +5 ring I swap on. My DDO saved him last after a night of playing intimitank (Ive done this in VOD a few times) it saves the fighters hp. Meanest little rogue you never wanna run into (actually Id save that classification for westside killah but anyway)


have a look if u want: http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/zandeer/

most of his loot is not uber fyi


this is him with no str, wisdom, int items on those stats tend to be higher if Im playing trap monkey, meleeing or need a save boost. Also he runs with a golden cartouche standard so the haggle necklace means I was selling stuff.

[Kistilan]

Cool beans

Your rogue has an intimi-dps factor though. I was going pure assassin with the other one and nearly dump-stat'd Dex. The endgame Dex will be about a 22, not a 30-32. Maybe 24 or 26 with the right GS & tome (I only added a +2 Dex tome for the end build after time). I was planning on the Demonic armours, white/black scale hide or dragontouched armours that funciton w/evasion.

I could easily do intimidate, but tanking (surviving the hits) this assassin isn't going to be the proper candidate unless gear and luck fall upon her shoulders to reach the 28 Dex range. However, the intelligence overkill factor I was counting on for skills & assassination.

Overall about the right items, although may swop out to a shortsword to take advantage of drow bonus to hit.

Is your PrE for Rougue an assassin? Or Acrobat?

[captain1z]

Cool beans

Your rogue has an intimi-dps factor though.

Is your PrE for Rougue an assassin? Or Acrobat?


- he can intimidate only because my charisma was so high it seemed a waist not to have all the charisma based skills high. So by default that became an option but he changes his role in a fight mearly by switching the ring on his finger. trap monkey, backup healer, throws FOD on the gnolls in shroud part 4 (catches 1-2), melee, intimitank, kiter...whatever is needed for a short time.

- Hes assassin specced but only 15 rogue right now so it doesnt do much for me yet and AP's are tight...... work in progress. The rapier lets me get sneak attacks and Im hoping by 18th level of rogue assassin 3 will proc on 20's vs a blinded opponent.... essentially turning my radiance rapier into a Vorpal Rapier of radiance.

Thats the plan anyway.

[Tallyn]

One thing I would suggest, if you can, see if you can fit in Faster Sneaking III or even IV in your build. It really helps to be able to sneak in quick and move around faster in stealth. If I had points for it in my current template I'd definitly put in III if I could.

Since you're somewhat STR based, what weapons are you going to use? If you're planning on just using one weapon, I'd highly recommend Khopesh, it's pretty much the best one handed weapon in my opinion. Again, this is personal preference though, and if you have a slew of other good weapons of a different type, then go with what you have. (Of course you'd need to switch IC: Pierce to IC: Slash if you went Khopesh)

If you want to shore up your saves some more there is Luck of Heroes (+1 to all saves), but I don't think this will be necessary.

Possibly improved trip is another option, to add your list of abilities, but really don't see many other feats in game that complements the flavor of the build you are trying to make.

[Kistilan]

One thing I would suggest, if you can, see if you can fit in Faster Sneaking III or even IV in your build. It really helps to be able to sneak in quick and move around faster in stealth. If I had points for it in my current template I'd definitly put in III if I could.

Since you're somewhat STR based, what weapons are you going to use? If you're planning on just using one weapon, I'd highly recommend Khopesh, it's pretty much the best one handed weapon in my opinion. Again, this is personal preference though, and if you have a slew of other good weapons of a different type, then go with what you have. (Of course you'd need to switch IC: Pierce to IC: Slash if you went Khopesh)

If you want to shore up your saves some more there is Luck of Heroes (+1 to all saves), but I don't think this will be necessary.

Possibly improved trip is another option, to add your list of abilities, but really don't see many other feats in game that complements the flavor of the build you are trying to make.

Agreed on all parts, although I'm banking on the Drow: Short Sword +1s hence the Pierce. If I were to remove those and swop to IC: Slash and somehow free up a feat, Khopesh could be ok, but DPS isn't the primary incentive either still.

100% Agree on Stealth -- may have to drop the Drow Weapon Enhancements and other things just to get faster sneaking.

Improved Trip may work...

After reviewing the Level 20 True Reincarnation, I could see this potential:

1. Reincarnate, drop Insightful Reflexes, Improve Dex to 14, lower Int by 1, go Finesse.
2. Reincarnate, Improve int by 1 go Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, -- drop Finesse, Imp Feint & Sap.

Results: Level 1 Rogue Setup for Success to 2 Paladin, 18 Rogue (assassin
Feats: Force of Personality, Toughness, Dodge, Improved Critical (Slash/Pierce), Combat Expertise, Mobility, Spring Attack + 3 Rogue & 2 Reincarnation Feats.

14 Str
14 Dex
12 Con
18 Int
8 Wis
16 Cha

[Tallyn]

I REALLY like the look of your build using True Reincarnate system, but don't forget about the Past Life Feats either, some have been announced (the ones you don't have to spend feats on), but some will be announced later.

Personally, I won't be doing true reincarnate on my main character (too many tomes invested in him to make me want to reroll, even for past life feats and potential +4 build points in long run), however, I may do it on some of my alts for the challenge of trying to build that ultimate character.