Id like to save my trapmonkey, but NEED some dps

[jeenne]

Hi guys,
My rogue is great at opening locks and DD, however she sucks at pretty much everything else (which I have come to discover playing her a little bit more lately). I am level 7, almost 8 actually. My STR is only 12 (dunno what I was thinking-oh wait I went for weapon finesse and forgot it doesnt apply to damage!). So now I am rocking a rogue who I loved to play but who is NOT doing any decent damage. I started off with STR 10. Any suggestions how to raise her dps? I am using rapier since I get the drow bonus enhancement to damage.

How viable and useful are trapmonkeys in the endgame anyhow? My highest level toon I have ever had was 11 at mod 3. So its been a while. Plus, i see multiclass rogues (like 2 levels) who are just as good at disabling traps as I am. So what point is there to have a full rogue in your party nowadays????

So I was wondering if it would make any sense to possibly throw Ranger in my build now? My AC is at 27 unbuffed, however, I am still a squishy. I use bows a lot since being to close usually kills me on elite quests.
Any input how to possibly improve this build would be appreciated. BTW DEX currently is 24, WIS 8, CHA 11, CON 13, INT 19, STR 12.

Thanks

[Maxelcat]

Stay with weapon finesse. I have STR 10 (un buffed) raise your STR with Items and buffs. Keep your dex as high as possible as your DPS comes more from SA and you cant SA if you cant hit.

Stay a trapper for prolly another 2 levels. once your in the 10-11 lv range you will have enough enhancements to kit out a Assassin (for sneaky play) or use your enhancements to just buff out your SA bonuses and don't for get the no Argo skill.

in a group follow a fighter around and stay behind him. let him get the agro then trade it back and forth with him.

with some fine tuned enhancements you should be able to SA for 30-40 easy...

[Thanimal]

Unfortunately, the high-INT trap-monkey is not an optimal build right now. The problem is that there's a zillion builds that can do every trap in the game except one optional and fairly useless one in Cabal for One. So a "professional" trap monkey is just not really needed. (Some power gamers argue that trap skills aren't needed at all, but that assumes quite a bit of coordination that I personally don't have!)

That said, Rogues can do almost anything. Some good options for DPS are 19 Rogue (Assassin)/1 Monk assassin and 13 Rogue(Acrobat)/6 Ranger/1 Monk. It's also possible for Rogues to tank in many places in the game (see my signature for a link), but that's only worth considering because wherever it can't tank it can sneak attack the heck out of stuff.

It's possibly you could morph your build into an Assassin build, since higher INT is somewhat useful there for the DC on Assassinate.

All that said, ANY Rogue is capable of decent DPS because of Sneak Attack. Make sure you take all the sneak-attack-damage enhancements and Rogue Subtle Backstabbing. The difference between having all those and not having them is night and day in terms of DPS potential. Take the TWF feat line and get in there and spew SA damage all over the room!!

[Spartus]

I also have a high-Dex low-Str rogue with a very low AC. Here's some unorganized random bits of advice floating around my head:

The majority of your damage will come from Sneak Attacks, so avoid getting aggro as much as possible (this is my most important piece of advice, since avoiding aggro will also mean you get hit a whole lot less). Always let another melee go first and grab initial aggro, then follow and flank a target they are already attacking. Attacking an enemy from behind also means that their Cleave attacks will hit you a whole lot less often, and the other melee attacking your common enemy gets flanking bonuses as well.

Take the full Subtle Backstabbing line of enhancements to further reduce the amount of hate your attacks generate.

Max out the Diplomacy skill and use it anytime you manage to draw aggro on yourself.

Keep Weapon Finesse. You have to actually hit to do any damage at all.

Do you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feats? If not, can you get enough shards and plat together to visit Fred and respec. to them? Doubling the number of times you Sneak Attack can really help increase your damage output.

Take all of the enhancements that add damage to your sneak attacks.

Against crit.-immune creatures (undead, constructs, mobs with heavy fortificiation, etc.), your damage is just going to be much lower. Try to get some Greater Undead/Construct/etc. Bane weapons.

Using paralyzers, banishers, etc. paired with a cursespewer in the offhand can really help a party out against trash mobs without requiring a high damage output.

[Thanimal]

I use bows a lot since being to close usually kills me on elite quests.

Be careful with that -- many people do not know that holding a bow gives you a 4 point AC penalty if anybody closes to melee range on you. And it's pretty hard to get SA damage from a bow with the way they chose to implement it.

Somewhat surprisingly, Rogues these days are capable of excellent AC -- especially a Finesse build. Splash in one or two levels of Monk, and make sure you get all the best AC equipment (Protection item, +WIS item, +DEX item, Blackwidow Bracers), and you may often find yourself with the highest AC in the party. With maxed subtle-backstabbing, this combination means you can really get in there and mix it up!

Unfortunately, this doesn't really apply to your build as is, since you made no investment in Wisdom. (Well, technically, the build would probably still be better at higher levels with a Monk level -- it's that good.) If you consider a re-roll, definitely plan for a Monk level. In my opinion, it changes everything. I can't stand playing squishy Rogues. I LOVE playing non-squishy ones!

Btw, the best race for almost any Rogue build (except a crazy Intimitank like mine) is Halfling. This is true even if you only have 28-point Halflings, because Halfling ties for the best DEX, has the best AC potential, and (most important of all) can add significant extra Sneak Attack damage from enhancements.

[Thanimal]

I whole-heartedly endorse Spartus's advice as well.

[Quikster]

No need to reroll. Focus on getting your dex as high as possible, and make sure to use weapons that bypass dr when possible. You can do plenty of damage as you level. The advice given in this thread is solid so follow these guidelines. Also with an int like that, make sure you go assassin.

Max diplo, umd, and trap skills, then whatever you want. You'll be fine. Rogs are one of the harder classes to build and play so try not to get discouraged :D

[Vrangelya]

As alternative to melee DPS, consider using a repeating crossbow. My assassin 3 pure rogue gets every lock and trap (except the cabal one) and does huge SA damage on all kinds of mobs. In shroud part 4-5, I love seeing three lines of damage when I range Harry: base, plus SA, plus holy, plus good (using silver arrows). Each line is usually between 70 and 100 points (the numbers are soft but each backstab is usually in low 50s by itself and the crit range is great). Three shots can get near 300 per attack if they all hit. Even if 1-2 miss you are still doing respectable damage.

On top of that- the Assassin 3 vorpal with ranged weapons and this is now my favorite toon to play. The tanks with melee DPS take agro and I hide behind the "lines" and providing superior support DPS.

V

[Mav145]

Is there an Assassin capstone? Are we going to regret not staying pure rogue?

I have a level 8 rogue assassin build and I am struggling with some of these same questions.

[Hafeal]

Is there an Assassin capstone? Are we going to regret not staying pure rogue?

I have a level 8 rogue assassin build and I am struggling with some of these same questions.

The rogue capstone is just about universally regarded as one of the worst, if not the worst, in the game. Until it is changed I would not worry about it. But don't multi-class for the sake of multi-classing either. Have a plan. I would play around with Ron's character builder and look at the many, many builds here on the forums.

[Vrangelya]

There is assassin 3 which I you can get level 18. Basically any roll of 20 that is confirmed a crit is a vorpal. I use lt repeaters and its awesome. I haven’t confirmed that it works on bludgeoning weapons but logic dictates if it works on ranges, it should work with anything.

The Rogue capstone at 20th level is a chance to self rez when you die. I just got it last night and have no idea how often it works. The chance supposedly decreases with each death in a quest though.

Looking forward to having go off but don’t want to 'test it per se by dieing allot!

V

[redraider]

Focus on your AC - Here could be a goal! At lvl 16, Westside has his build to 106 AC (8 Rog/6 Rgr/2 Mnk). You don't say what race or alingment (or I missed it) - so this might not be an option.

Endgame 40 DEX: 18 base +5 lvl +6 item +2 race +3 class +3 except +3 tome = 40 (+15 mod))
(Endgame 20 WIS: 8 base +6 item +3 tome +3 except = 20 (+5 mod))

10 Base
15 DEX
5 WIS
1 Size
1 Dodge Feat
2 Chaosguarde
3 Chattering
4 Raiments
4 Insight
5 Protection
5 CE
8 Armor Bracers
1 Ritual
1 TWD
= 65 Standing

5 Barkskin
5 Paladin
4 Bard
=79 Standard Raid

4 Shield Clicky
1 Haste
2 Recitation
=86 Situational

3 Hafling Heroe's Companion
6 Improved Uncanny Dodge
=95 Rarely

[gfunk]

there are lots of things you can do to increase your dps, I would still recommend putting points into dex with your character as at this point you will not get high enough str to ever get a decent to-hit bonus.

-Once you get higher lvl and have obtained a +3 tome you can pick up power attack, which adds quite alot of dps. It adds +5 to main and +5 to off hand weapon, which makes it equivilant to having roughly a +7 str modifier (24 str) however power attack requires 13 str. It gives +10 damage for THF (if you were to use quarterstaves for example).

-Take advantage of your high int and spec for Assassin. You get +6 on crits (before multipliers) for assasin III, and the "vorpal strike" effect works fairly well. Alot of people prefer acrobat as its a bit more versatile, however assassin can be fun.

-Make sure you put enhancement points into "haste boost", it stacks with the haste spell, and there isn't any other enhancement or feat which beats it for dps increase. Of course, its limited duration but many players find it very effective to use.

-Consider unorthodox builds, and don't worry about huge dps. As longs as you have all the sneak attack enhancements and gear you are going to do somewhat decent dps whatever you do. You could consider going THF thief acrobat and picking up the following quarterstaff: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Weapons/Breeze.jpg
This quarterstaff uses dexterity as the damage modifier rather than strength (or so I have been told).

Good luck with your rogue.

[Quikster]

Focus on your AC - Here could be a goal! At lvl 16, Westside has his build to 106 AC (8 Rog/6 Rgr/2 Mnk). You don't say what race or alingment (or I missed it) - so this might not be an option.

Endgame 40 DEX: 18 base +5 lvl +6 item +2 race +3 class +3 except +3 tome = 40 (+15 mod))
(Endgame 20 WIS: 8 base +6 item +3 tome +3 except = 20 (+5 mod))

10 Base
15 DEX
5 WIS
1 Size
1 Dodge Feat
2 Chaosguarde
3 Chattering
4 Raiments
4 Insight
5 Protection
5 CE
8 Armor Bracers
1 Ritual
1 TWD
= 65 Standing

5 Barkskin
5 Paladin
4 Bard
=79 Standard Raid

4 Shield Clicky
1 Haste
2 Recitation
=86 Situational

3 Hafling Heroe's Companion
6 Improved Uncanny Dodge
=95 Rarely


How do you get chaosguarde and +8 AB on the same build?

[jeenne]

wow thanks so much for all the responses, Im gonna take some time and check out the enhancements. There are overwhelmingly a lot of them. And I DID NOT think that subtle backstabbing and sneak attack enhancements matter that much. Gotta get some plat to respec that, which should be easy.

Im happy that my rogue is "fixable" :).
I was thinking of picking up TWF actually(If I am not mistaken at lvl 9 i get the next feat). So I will look into that.

I got the bracers from deleras (+4 deflection) last night. And I got a dex ring when I hit level 9 which gives +4. So I will be rocking a 28 dex.

My race btw is drow, alignment: chaotic neutral.

[spifflove]

what gfunk said about power attack.

[jeenne]

there are lots of things you can do to increase your dps, I would still recommend putting points into dex with your character as at this point you will not get high enough str to ever get a decent to-hit bonus.

-Once you get higher lvl and have obtained a +3 tome you can pick up power attack, which adds quite alot of dps. It adds +5 to main and +5 to off hand weapon, which makes it equivilant to having roughly a +7 str modifier (24 str) however power attack requires 13 str. It gives +10 damage for THF (if you were to use quarterstaves for example).

-Take advantage of your high int and spec for Assassin. You get +6 on crits (before multipliers) for assasin III, and the "vorpal strike" effect works fairly well. Alot of people prefer acrobat as its a bit more versatile, however assassin can be fun.

-Make sure you put enhancement points into "haste boost", it stacks with the haste spell, and there isn't any other enhancement or feat which beats it for dps increase. Of course, its limited duration but many players find it very effective to use.

-Consider unorthodox builds, and don't worry about huge dps. As longs as you have all the sneak attack enhancements and gear you are going to do somewhat decent dps whatever you do. You could consider going THF thief acrobat and picking up the following quarterstaff: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Weapons/Breeze.jpg
This quarterstaff uses dexterity as the damage modifier rather than strength (or so I have been told).

Good luck with your rogue.

Question on the Power Attack: Do I need a BASE 13 Str?

[spifflove]

Question on the Power Attack: Do I need a BASE 13 Str?

Yes you will need a +1 str tome. These are cheap[ish] or u can buy them from the store.

[winsom]

You will do decent damage with with Power Attack feat and the two weapon fighting feats.
My drow finesse bard/rogue started with 9 Strength (bad idea) but she now does decent damage due to sneak attack dice, items, enhancements and uber weapons with extra dice.

AC is useful if you can keep it high enough, but as a rogue you are best attacking from the flanking (behind) position where monsters are not attacking you at all. This typically means your Armor Class is not being used.. That is fine because your damage-dealing is what is important. My opinion on rogues that try to use high AC as a benefit to the party is that they are not very good at playing a rogue.

[jeenne]

So, I respec'ed my enhancements (to assassin) and, boy, I do decent amount of SA damage now. It rocks! Im very happy with that :). Later on i will pick up TWF or THF and the Power Attack and I should be set.

Thanks again :)!

[jeenne]

You will do decent damage with with Power Attack feat and the two weapon fighting feats.
My drow finesse bard/rogue started with 9 Strength (bad idea) but she now does decent damage due to sneak attack dice, items, enhancements and uber weapons with extra dice.

AC is useful if you can keep it high enough, but as a rogue you are best attacking from the flanking (behind) position where monsters are not attacking you at all. This typically means your Armor Class is not being used.. That is fine because your damage-dealing is what is important. My opinion on rogues that try to use high AC as a benefit to the party is that they are not very good at playing a rogue.

I rather do more dps since rogues are naturally squishy (at least from what I have ever played). And if they do have decent AC they usually fall back a little on the dps. Which is fine as well as long as they get the traps. I guess it all depends on your build and play style.

One major aspect about rogues that constantly annoys me in a group with my cleric is NOT the healing a squishy rogue. It annoys me when the rogue is not able to find and disable traps. They can be squishy for all i care if they at least benefit the party in some way.